Why is the SP cost of Leap of Faith being doubled?

[Alcamez]

This has been asked many times, often by me, but there has been zero response.

Why is the SP cost of Leap of Faith being doubled from 5 to 10 SP? And whatever that reason may be, is it or is it not already covered by the change that makes LoF a limited number of regenerating charges?

I can't think of any reason to double the SP cost in addition to the other nerf, unless the intent is simply to discourage the use of LoF (an ability that adds considerable fun to the game) in general, non-"game space deforming" situations.

I understand the regenerating charges thing is here to stay and I'm basically OK with that, but please give this SP cost change a second thought. It's unnecessary and only serves to reduce my fun, as far as I can see.

Answer is HERE

[Seikojin]

The cost is to make it something you can't double use while in echos of power mode. Not that you could anyways.

[Milfeulle]

My personal view:

Even if they triple the sp cost, I wouldn't consider it nerfing:

After 5 initial use, for 1 min of leap:
Before U11: cost 100 sp for 20 leap under 1 min.
After U11: cost 40 sp for 4 leap under 1 min.

After U11, it cost you 60 less sp to leap within 1 min, 600 less sp within 10 min, it's saving your sp not wasting if you're a wing abuser.
Then again, If you're not a wing abuser, then you wouldn't call 15 sec cool down a nerf.
Personally I would consider it a nerf if TB increases the sp cost above 25 sp per use.

[TheDjinnFor]

Recharge is 15 seconds, except in public areas where the recharge is 3 seconds.

Oh, doh. Yeah sorry.

Don't know what I was thinking. Maybe because the person was talking about 6 second cooldowns.

[Chai]

All you people posting your Shroud ToD and VoD solo runs on barely geared FvS have a clear understanding on why they use dodecatuple nerfs to cover these types of issues. You showed them how to use a combination of three abilities to overpower content they designed for twelve players, heh.

[waterboytkd]

All you people posting your Shroud ToD and VoD solo runs on barely geared FvS have a clear understanding on why they use dodecatuple nerfs to cover these types of issues. You showed them how to use a combination of three abilities to overpower content they designed for twelve players, heh.

Soloing raids...is it the class or the player? Because I've heard of wizards soloing ToD, VoD, etc., and they don't have wings...so are wings what really need to be nerfed?

Or, more specifically, double-nerfed? The charge limit is a pretty hard limit. It WILL stop any kind of DoT kiting, mnemonic pots be damned. The double SP cost is just unnecessary in this case, and will only punish people for winging around town like mad.

The cost is to make it something you can't double use while in echos of power mode. Not that you could anyways.

I know the devs have never said this. And, as you said, it wouldn't be an issue anyways. If you're out of SP, you've probably blown your 5 charges and are only using wings once every 15 seconds...

[Chai]

Soloing raids...is it the class or the player? Because I've heard of wizards soloing ToD, VoD, etc., and they don't have wings...so are wings what really need to be nerfed?

How many ungeared wizards are soloing ToD? I see all kinds of ungeared and semi geared FvS posting screenies of their raid solo, with my congrats somewhere in their thread followed by "you know you are just making a case for them to nerf you, right" - heh.

Or, more specifically, double-nerfed? The charge limit is a pretty hard limit. It WILL stop any kind of DoT kiting, mnemonic pots be damned. The double SP cost is just unnecessary in this case, and will only punish people for winging around town like mad.

Popular opinion on how class adjustments SHOULD happen.


Popular opinion on how class adjustments DO happen.

[Shade]

Soloing raids...is it the class or the player? Because I've heard of wizards soloing ToD,

Screenshot or it didn't happen.

To date the only class that has ever solo'd ToD is FvS. A few players have done it, all on the same class. There is a reason for that.

It's huge part on the player skill (Teth and the others who did are awesome players), but I bet if you asked him/them he wouldn't tell you he was confident his wizard could do it... And pretty sure he has well maxxed out character in most every class.

[Elaril]

Screenshot or it didn't happen.

To date the only class that has ever solo'd ToD is FvS. A few players have done it, all on the same class. There is a reason for that.

It's huge part on the player skill (Teth and the others who did are awesome players), but I bet if you asked him/them he wouldn't tell you he was confident his wizard could do it... And pretty sure he has well maxxed out character in most every class.

Honest question: what does that have to do with the price of tea in china?

People like challenges and soloing things. So what if only a few FVS's have soloed TOD, the vast majority of FVS players have not. That's not proof of the need of a nerf. If everyone were soloing it on their FVS with ease, then it would be a problem. As it stands, it's not problematic to the point of a nerf.

Although I would side with you and say, screenshot or it didn't happen in regard to a wizzie soloing Tower.

[Stanley_Nicholas]

Screenshot or it didn't happen.

To date the only class that has ever solo'd ToD is FvS. A few players have done it, all on the same class. There is a reason for that.

It's huge part on the player skill (Teth and the others who did are awesome players), but I bet if you asked him/them he wouldn't tell you he was confident his wizard could do it... And pretty sure he has well maxxed out character in most every class.

And IF you believe that makes the class overpowered, surely you must concede that in light of the regenerating charges nerf, doubling the SP cost as well will do nothing to further change that situation.

[waterboytkd]

Screenshot or it didn't happen.

Fair enough. I don't have a sceenshot because it wasn't me. It was a guy who I grouped with a few times who made the claim. And, I guess I wouldn't be surprised if he was full of it.

That said, I know zero FvS personally who've solo'd ToD. And some of these guys are very strong players, especially on a FvS. Which makes me again say, "class or player?" I have a geared FvS, and though I'll admit I'm not near the top-end for DDO players, I like to think I'm pretty good. And I know I can't solo ToD. So again, class or player?

As for the very good players who haven't solo'd ToD, they've shortmanned it (as little as 2.5; one guy was dual-boxing). But even on those shortman runs, they aren't wing kiting horoth. They tank him. So I just don't see the need to doublenerf wings.

[protokon]

NoNoNo its a sledge hammer when a feather duster will do.

NoNoNo it's more like a chainsaw when scissors will do

[dragon2fire]

How many ungeared wizards are soloing ToD?



Popular opinion on how class adjustments SHOULD happen.
[img] http://www.clker.com/cliparts/8/d/3/...el.svg.med.png [/img]

Popular opinion on how class adjustments DO happen.

how many ungeared potless fvs are soloing anything

[waterboytkd]

Popular opinion on how class adjustments SHOULD happen.


Popular opinion on how class adjustments DO happen.

I like.

[Rumbaar]

Because they need to sell more Articifer class before U12, and FvS were the highest coolest class around that might have impacted on those sales.

[waterboytkd]

bumping this in hopes of a dev explanation as to why the SP cost is being doubled.

[GeneralDiomedes]

Sometimes I wonder why the devs put these abilities in their original incarnations there in the first place .. sometimes I think it is just to make a sale. At other times, I think they are totally unaware of the ramifications.

[Xaxx]

NoNoNo its a sledge hammer when a feather duster will do.

dang you bodic you stole my quote from a few months ago.... but get it complete.

A game thats new, its expected that the devs will use a sledge hammer while balancing.... thats to be expected as their getting used to reacting to the developing game. Yet sometime in the first 6 to 18 months of the game there comes a point where sledge hammer nerfing is no longer acceptable. By this point and time developers, content creators, and comunity managers should have learned enough about their game to be able to put away the sledge hammer and use at the very most a small hammer, but it should at that point be like using a feather duster or even a feather.. you should know enough about your game to be able to tweak it without hammering it.

The problem comes in this... this game is over 5 years old... and yet the devs still use the sledge hammer.... always... no thinking about it.... just pull out the sledge. THE DEVS SHOULD KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT THEIR OWN **** GAME AFTER 5+ YEARS NOT TO HAVE TO USE THE SLEDGE HAMMER ON EVERY *BALANCE* PROBLEM THAT THEY WISH TO ADDRESS. I dont see where the wings was a balance problem anyway... yet the whole point is they decided to look at it... and their version of looking at it was to bend it over the table and have their way with it.

The simple fact is the people behind these kinds of moves should either not be making these decisions or need to learn alot more about the game their working on. I'm going to mention the game that should not be mentioned.... look at wow.... lots of nerfs... lots of buffs... one update a class can be buffed... the next nerfed. Because they're constantly trying to keep things close. If the numbers say a skill isnt being used, or its dps isnt where they want it to be... they'll boost it by 10 or 15%. Then say if that skill is hitting to hard... they'll nerf it 5%. They DONT BOOST A SKILL BY 70% DAMAGE AND THEN WHEN ITS HITTING TO HARD NERF IT BY 112%. That is what would happen if some of these ddo guys were in charge.

Now I dont think its to much to ask that they should know by now how to use the feather duster rather than the sledge hammer.

So.... triple nerf to a skill that really didnt need bothered... and well... thats not surprising considering thats how these guys seem to approach it.

So is it bs... yes
is it what we should expect from turbine in the future... yeah
is it acceptable that after 5+ years that these people dont know their own game well enough to tweak it without hammering at a specific portion of it with no regaurd for what they're doing... oh fudge no

paying attention turbine?

[Clankex]

If anything, the nerf to LoF has made DDO feel like a PnP D&D game for once. It feels like a DM designed a bunch of cool house rules and gave them to the players who brought all the snacks to the game (or TP, in this case). Totally thought he was an awesome DM because he treats his players so awesomely with cool stuff. Until..... a player one-hit kills that awesome boss he spent so much time making (you know the one that has ten pages of backstory, gives the awesome speech, and becomes the PCs bane for the rest of the campaign). In a fit of nerd-rage, the DM creates a bunch of new house rules to "balance" the OP characters. Of course, this all proves how awesome of a DM he is because he can react to problem players/rules on-the-fly.

About the excessive use of Awesome - I started playing D&D in 1978 and during the 80s, awesome is the most used adjective I remember from that time. For those of you not old enough, everything was awesome but sometimes could also be gnarly. Very little was bogus...

[Lyzernn]

Public 1: QQ THE GAME IS TOO EASY, TOO MANY EASY BUTTONS, MOAR HARD PL0X

Public 2: OMFG Stupid devs stop nerfing my class/skills/spells/feats/race, they make the game too hard!!1!1!!

Public 3: wut's happenin?