Why is the SP cost of Leap of Faith being doubled?

[Stanley_Nicholas]

C'mon Turbine, if you're going to nerf us the least you can do is explain why. As evidenced by the responses in this thread, none of us players are able to think of any reasonable explanation. Without your explanation, your SP change makes no sense to me at all. Doesn't the regenerating charges thing already "fix" what you see to be the problem?

[patang01]

This has been asked many times, often by me, but there has been zero response.

Why is the SP cost of Leap of Faith being doubled from 5 to 10 SP? And whatever that reason may be, is it or is it not already covered by the change that makes LoF a limited number of regenerating charges?

I can't think of any reason to double the SP cost in addition to the other nerf, unless the intent is simply to discourage the use of LoF (an ability that adds considerable fun to the game) in general, non-"game space deforming" situations.

I understand the regenerating charges thing is here to stay and I'm basically OK with that, but please give this SP cost change a second thought. It's unnecessary and only serves to reduce my fun, as far as I can see.

Who knows - none of it fixes the problem with boss AI, but somehow it convinced people that charges and SP cost somehow balances things. I don't kite bosses with my FvS. But I do use the wings everywhere to move around.

[Chai]

how many ungeared potless fvs are soloing anything

The dude who soloed TOD normal, VOD elite, adq2 epic all no pots posted a thread on it and his character is public. Right now it has one epic item on it and a torc, with two cove epics (ShopKo epics, heh). The sword is a shroud weapon. The stats arent really all that huge, as his con is the largest stat at 38, and the rest of thje gear is basically Walmart style named items.

Seems to me that any MMO that I play, the minute any class has the ability to kite to the point where they cant be touched while still delivering damage to the mobs, their power just increased exponentially. While I agree that nerfs arent the answer, I do say that posting these threads about soloing raids with minimal difficulty is literally asking to be nerfed, especially when its the same class in most of the screenshots.

[Stanley_Nicholas]

The dude who soloed TOD normal, VOD elite, adq2 epic all no pots posted a thread on it and his character is public. Right now it has one epic item on it and a torc, with two cove epics (ShopKo epics, heh). The sword is a shroud weapon. The stats arent really all that huge, as his con is the largest stat at 38, and the rest of thje gear is basically Walmart style named items.

Seems to me that any MMO that I play, the minute any class has the ability to kite to the point where they cant be touched while still delivering damage to the mobs, their power just increased exponentially. While I agree that nerfs arent the answer, I do say that posting these threads about soloing raids with minimal difficulty is literally asking to be nerfed, especially when its the same class in most of the screenshots.

None of which has anything to do with a need to double SP cost - it's all completely covered by making it an ability with limited charges.

And hey watch it, I used to work at ShopKo! At least it's better than Walmart...

[loki_3369]

Soloing raids...is it the class or the player? Because I've heard of wizards soloing ToD, VoD, etc., and they don't have wings...so are wings what really need to be nerfed?

Seems to happen much more often with favored souls then other classes. Or at least people post more threads indicating they soloed a raid with their fvs.

While I'm sure the many VoD solo threads that have been posted over the past few months aren't the only reason for this change, I am confident they were a contributing factor.

Now that being said I don't necessarily agree with the way wings have been changed. The programming that allows them to work while chained and such is the real problem, but this is the easier way to "fix" problems I suppose.

Regardless I don't spam wings except while running to a quest anyway so /meh.

Edit: Also Chai, I believe Ooze (Healings) mostly turtled up when he soloed those. More of a DoT issue than wings imo.

[Chai]

None of which has anything to do with a need to double SP cost - it's all completely covered by making it an ability with limited charges.

And hey watch it, I used to work at ShopKo! At least it's better than Walmart...

It does have to do with doubling SP cost, for the reason I stated earlier, here:

Yeap

Unfortunately, when the nerfs happen, this is how they do things. Im not saying I agree with it, or that it even makes sense, but it is how we know it happens. People put the power of the class on display knowing full well that the nerf bomb would likely get dropped, as it has several times in the past.

[pHo3nix]

Edit: Also Chai, I believe Ooze (Healings) mostly turtled up when he soloed those. More of a DoT issue than wings imo.

^This.

Run a tod where he was tanking and he didn't use wings at all, just shieldblock + Dot + free CLW capstone.
If you got enough DR+self-healing ability is way better to turtle up and get hit, at least you regain sp
If you are willing to chug sp pots then yes, wings might be safer. But if you chug pots it really doesn't sound as an accomplishment, infinite sp (at 0 risk) means infinite hp, so it doesn't seem that hard

[Stanley_Nicholas]

It does have to do with doubling SP cost, for the reason I stated earlier, here:

Unfortunately, when the nerfs happen, this is how they do things. Im not saying I agree with it, or that it even makes sense, but it is how we know it happens. People put the power of the class on display knowing full well that the nerf bomb would likely get dropped, as it has several times in the past.

Sorry but I hope you'll understand if I don't consider that an adequate explanation... And while it may be par for the course around here, I would hope that you and others wouldn't consider it an adequate explanation either. I don't think I'm out of place in asking for a real reason, if one even exists.

I posted about the soloing = OP myth in another thread. I don't see how that can explain this nerf at all regardless. And it's also true that most of the soloers just turtle and DoT, so again it utterly fails to explain why SP cost should go up.

[muffinlad]

If we have to have charges, there is no need for increased SP cost.

It it slapping someone on the face, after you have kicked them in the privates. Not needed.

Regards,

muffincoil

[stainer]

muffincoil

I only read your posts to see how awesomely you sign them.

stainproval

[waterboytkd]

Sorry but I hope you'll understand if I don't consider that an adequate explanation... And while it may be par for the course around here, I would hope that you and others wouldn't consider it an adequate explanation either. I don't think I'm out of place in asking for a real reason, if one even exists.

I posted about the soloing = OP myth in another thread. I don't see how that can explain this nerf at all regardless. And it's also true that most of the soloers just turtle and DoT, so again it utterly fails to explain why SP cost should go up.

Agreed. Just because it's normal for turbine to double-swing the nerf bat does not make it acceptable. In fact, kind of the opposite...the copious amounts of double-nerfs are annoying at best, and driving people away at worst.

Again, devs, why the double SP cost? Why any SP cost at all? Doesn't the charges mechanic stop the DoT kiting that you want to stop?

[loki_3369]

Sorry but I hope you'll understand if I don't consider that an adequate explanation... And while it may be par for the course around here, I would hope that you and others wouldn't consider it an adequate explanation either. I don't think I'm out of place in asking for a real reason, if one even exists.

I posted about the soloing = OP myth in another thread. I don't see how that can explain this nerf at all regardless. And it's also true that most of the soloers just turtle and DoT, so again it utterly fails to explain why SP cost should go up.

Only possible reason I can think of for raising the sp is to discourage people from "spamming" their whole 5 charges (because that 50 sp is really going to hurt? >.>). Maybe they did it for the reason I suggested, an attempt to get people to post even more threads to complain about the changes, a couple other reasons nobody is aware of, or maybe even just to "slap us in the face after kicking us in the privates" as Muffinlad so eloquently put it .

Whatever the reason was, I don't think it accomplished anything. Except maybe the more threads part

[waterboytkd]

bumping again for dev comment...

[gloopygloop]

I'm personally waiting for the final release notes to have only the new limit on wings with no SP increase, followed by scores of forum posters thanking them for their mercy and goodness.

[Ashbinder]

I'm sad to see wings go as much as any FvS, they were part of what made the class enjoyable. I'm holding my judgement until I play U11 live, then decide whether to continue or quit. If the class is no fun anymore with clipped wings, just find fun somewhere else.

There's really no need to spout abuse at the devs for making a change they feel balances the game. They're just doing their job. Unfortunately it'll just mean it costs my guild a raid healer, that's all.

[Candela90]

People are so envy... I dont get it.
If FVS is SO SUPER GREAT so that they want to nerf it, why they dont play them? They just complain "theyre better than me etc". If it was truth all more of half players would be fvses ;p And i dont see so many fvses running around.
Turbine just lowered number of healing classes running around. Cause be honest - mostly we see lack of healers. Not on low lvls, but on higher... How many times 10 people on shroud group waited 10-15 minut for a healer? Many.

And some people e.g. me started to play FVS just to this wings thing over wizzard or other thing. And here = u will be waiting for healers even more xD Ill stack with my fvs, but.... i think some people may not, and not so many people will roll fvs now. Wings were this "gadget" that people wanted to test. Now,. when its nerfed....

Second thing is, as i wrote some earlier. FvS was and is possible to buy. Changing something AFTER someone bought it, is not fair.

[ainmosni]

Yeah, it does seem rather unnecessary.

But it seems the Devs are fans of double-nerfs.

E.g., ToD didn't just get a save, it also became negative energy instead of untyped.

let's not forget the infamous 'nerf vorpals to the point of uselessness in the same update we allow casters to insta-kill everything in the game'.


second isnt really a nerf, but eh. same concept

[Totensonntag]

The simple fact is the people behind these kinds of moves should either not be making these decisions or need to learn alot more about the game their working on. I'm going to mention the game that should not be mentioned.... look at wow.... lots of nerfs... lots of buffs... one update a class can be buffed... the next nerfed. Because they're constantly trying to keep things close. If the numbers say a skill isnt being used, or its dps isnt where they want it to be... they'll boost it by 10 or 15%. Then say if that skill is hitting to hard... they'll nerf it 5%. They DONT BOOST A SKILL BY 70% DAMAGE AND THEN WHEN ITS HITTING TO HARD NERF IT BY 112%. That is what would happen if some of these ddo guys were in charge.

Agreed. As much as I despise this abomination called WoW, their devs balancing approach sounds much more reasonable to me. At least they don't tend to overreact and adjusting something to them does not mean to turn around 180° or even chop a limb.

In case of wing clipping the nerf bat isn't just extremely huge, so the turbine dev wielding it must look like some manga hero (or even horc), sadly he seems to be blindfolded too. Hitting in the wrong direction.
Since SP pots with no significant cooldown, overpowered DoTs and the wings ability to overwrite any root effect are the real problem here. Not the wings SP cost, cooldown or whatever.

[Stanley_Nicholas]

So since there seems to be a bit of actual dev activity on this board today, maybe we could get an official explanation here? Because not a single player has been able to come up with a reasonable explanation for why the SP cost should go up. It seems like a completely unnecessary nerf to heap on top of making LoF an ability with limited charges.

[waterboytkd]

So since there seems to be a bit of actual dev activity on this board today, maybe we could get an official explanation here? Because not a single player has been able to come up with a reasonable explanation for why the SP cost should go up. It seems like a completely unnecessary nerf to heap on top of making LoF an ability with limited charges.

Yes. Dev comment please!

Also, if a Dev does comment, I would appreciate it if they would comment on the idea of getting rid of the SP cost due to the limited charges on the wings. Again, why do wings need to be the only ability in the game that has both an SP cost AND a charge limit?