Why is the SP cost of Leap of Faith being doubled?

[Chai]

Sorry but I hope you'll understand if I don't consider that an adequate explanation... And while it may be par for the course around here, I would hope that you and others wouldn't consider it an adequate explanation either. I don't think I'm out of place in asking for a real reason, if one even exists.

I posted about the soloing = OP myth in another thread. I don't see how that can explain this nerf at all regardless. And it's also true that most of the soloers just turtle and DoT, so again it utterly fails to explain why SP cost should go up.

Youre telling me that the explanation isnt valid due to the fact that YOUR OPINION is that the ability to solo content designed for 12 people doesnt make one toon OP?

It doesnt even matter if I agree with you on that or not, but I can assure you, Turbine doesnt agree, heh.

They put effort into creating content to challenge 12 people, and people solo it fairly consistently on the same class. Their response: /nerfbomb

Thats a pretty good explanation in my book. Its not a matter of if you agree with how they do things, its a matter of understanding how they do things, agreement or not.

[smatt]

let's not forget the infamous 'nerf vorpals to the point of uselessness in the same update we allow casters to insta-kill everything in the game'.


second isnt really a nerf, but eh. same concept

But but casters were just buff bots..... I'm kidding, casters are stupidly powerful now, and would be without the HUGE easy buttons they added with the mostly good spell pass.... Vorpals ae worhtless junk meant for the cruncher.... The other day I had not 1 but 2 +3 vorps on my end reward list, could you imagine the excitement of that 2,3,4 years ago... You would have to have pretty bad DPS to not kill a mob with less than 1k HP's with DPS rather, while waiting for that 20 to roll through... They should jsut change the name of vorpal to club of the holy flame, and all players on Ghallandra should mail them to Bronko


As far as the move up in SP cost of LoF, dumb now considering what they did to the ability already.

[Geonis]

All you people posting your Shroud ToD and VoD solo runs on barely geared FvS have a clear understanding on why they use dodecatuple nerfs to cover these types of issues. You showed them how to use a combination of three abilities to overpower content they designed for twelve players, heh.

So we need to nerf SnB Paladins?

Cause somewhere around here is a thread where a SnB Paladin soloed VoD.

Must be overpowered.

[skaltervox12]

My three FVS's took a swift one to the baby potatoes with this nerf, but I've lived through them before and I'll live through this one. Fine reign in the chickens a bit, I get it.

But doubling the SP cost doesn't really address any issue of being OP'ed, the cool down and limited uses did. Doing this just seems arbitrary and kinda like "Kick'em once more, Just to be sure"

I know 5 SP on a 3100 sp FVS ain't much, but just put away the bat for now, ok guys?

[smatt]

So we need to nerf SnB Paladins?

Cause somewhere around here is a thread where a SnB Paladin soloed VoD.

Must be overpowered.

Nope..... That was one guy, and clearly the FvS solos on some quests are by some good players but they are also by A LOT of players not just one or 2 willing to dump loads of consumable resources into them.

Overpowered, not for me to decide.. EXTREMELY powerful and at the very top rung as far as the ability of a vast number of players to beat a lot of content VERY easily as compared to other classes, no doubt about it.

[gloopygloop]

The sad part is that this change is making FvS less fun, but all of the FvS that can solo a raid today will still be able to solo those same raids on Monday.

[BlargneyTheSecond]

The dude who soloed TOD normal, VOD elite, adq2 epic all no pots posted a thread on it and his character is public.

As previously mentioned, that feat was accomplished with DoTs + shieldblocking. Wings had nothing to do with it.

The folks here who brag about their speed runs on their mages, yet are loving the nerf to leap of faith remind me of Tonya Harding.

[waterboytkd]

Dear Eladrin,

Please please please please please please comment and explain why the SP cost needed to be doubled on top of the charge limit.

Please.

[Chai]

So we need to nerf SnB Paladins?

Cause somewhere around here is a thread where a SnB Paladin soloed VoD.

Must be overpowered.

Note the word consistently in my post, as well as ungeared and semigeared, and same class.

And VoD? Please, its a level 16 raid we used to run with 14-16s. How many mighty S&B pallys soloed TOD.

Meanwhile in other news, multiple players were putting the OPness of FvS on display daily, and now people are acting surprised when their abilities are being scaled back in such a fashion that it costs more for less benefit.

while I agree that nerfs arent the answer, and double nerfing the same ability seems a bit much, I also gotta say that the told-you-so card is off the top of the deck, and laying on the table, face up.

[Milfeulle]

If you done the math, it's actually saving your sp, around 60 sp per min if you keep leaping.

[Hikup]

I'm personally waiting for the final release notes to have only the new limit on wings with no SP increase, followed by scores of forum posters thanking them for their mercy and goodness.

this.

[NaturalHazard]

It has everything to do with the developers using a shot gun approach instead of a scalpel for game changes. There is a long history of double nerfs, nerf one/buff another...

The roller coaster of balancing that the DDO devs seem so found of is very likely to continue.

shot gun? what ever more like the 18 inch guns on the yamamoto class super battleship.

[Stanley_Nicholas]

Youre telling me that the explanation isnt valid due to the fact that YOUR OPINION is that the ability to solo content designed for 12 people doesnt make one toon OP?

It doesnt even matter if I agree with you on that or not, but I can assure you, Turbine doesnt agree, heh.

They put effort into creating content to challenge 12 people, and people solo it fairly consistently on the same class. Their response: /nerfbomb

Thats a pretty good explanation in my book. Its not a matter of if you agree with how they do things, its a matter of understanding how they do things, agreement or not.

I'm telling you that it's not a valid explanation to simply say that this is something that should be expected because Turbine likes arbitrary double nerfs. The only valid explanation will be one that explains what doubling the SP fixes that isn't already being fixed by giving the ability limited charges. This is ridiculous.

I didn't want to get into it here, but I'm going to just say that I don't see how it's at all game deforming to have 1% of exceptionally geared and played FvS be occasionally capable of soloing ToD, at great TP/plat/pot expense and far slower than any group could complete it. There is no in-game advantage in performing such a feat, and therefore nobody - nobody - is doing this regularly. It's done once for bragging rights by a select few, and with a terribly reduced chance of getting any worthwhile reward. To suggest that this is the reason the SP cost is being doubled, simply because it's not what the devs intended to be possible initially, is to suggest that they are in the business of being grossly vindictive against the whole population because of something that is, as far as I can see, clearly not an exploit because it gives the player absolutely zero in-game advantage (no better loot which is far harder to get, and at massively inflated cost). Maybe it's true, but I would prefer to believe there is either a better reason I'm not seeing, or that it's simply an oversight.

I really didn't want to get into that in this thread - that's why I began discussing it in the other thread I linked to instead, to try to avoid derailing. I wanted this thread to be singularly focused on an explanation for the unexplained SP increase nerf. But since that's an explanation that apparently we're never going to get, oh well. Derail away I guess.

[gloopygloop]

Youre telling me that the explanation isnt valid due to the fact that YOUR OPINION is that the ability to solo content designed for 12 people doesnt make one toon OP?

After thinking about it, I do agree that Chai has a valid point. We should also take the wings ability away from Clerics, Wizards, Sorcerers and Stalwart Defenders since that is obviously what was allowing those classes to solo raids just like a FvS.

Wait, what? Those classes don't have wings? Then how did they solo those raids? Because we all know that it was the wings that allowed the FvS to solo those raids and it couldn't have been done otherwise, right? ...Right?

[Sir_L0LL0]

One explanation from a dev....

http://my.ddo.com/ddoqablog/

"Wings. It is real simple. It was OP. It was being used not as intended by a large part of the hardcore community. It was an easy button. Fixed. Personally the version going live is better for the health of the game. Now if you want to start a discussion about travel powers, that may be useful. Remember, all good gamers know Red Bull gives you wings."

Good or bad decision? I don't care, I'm gonna do the only thing it's in my power: no more money from me, ty dev team, you lost a(nother) paying customer

[djsonar919]

C'mon Turbine, if you're going to nerf us the least you can do is explain why. As evidenced by the responses in this thread, none of us players are able to think of any reasonable explanation. Without your explanation, your SP change makes no sense to me at all. Doesn't the regenerating charges thing already "fix" what you see to be the problem?

I'm with you on that. At least when they nerfed TWF they came up with this really good explanation on how it was going to fix lag. And I have to admit, after they fixed TWF combat, I haven't seen a single instance of lag. *end sarcasm*

[Totensonntag]

One explanation from a dev....

http://my.ddo.com/ddoqablog/

"Wings. It is real simple. It was OP. It was being used not as intended by a large part of the hardcore community. It was an easy button. Fixed. Personally the version going live is better for the health of the game. Now if you want to start a discussion about travel powers, that may be useful. Remember, all good gamers know Red Bull gives you wings."

You call this an explanation but all i see is Red Bull commercials.

He states wings were OP but he doesn't explain anything at all.

No word on why they decided against wing debuffs for specific quests, removing the built in unroot feature or nerfing pots or DoTs or whatever that is part of the OP combination of things they seem to hate so much for enableing people to exploit their broken raid concept.

[Snapdragoon]

i recall that thread about solo ToD, i also recall he did not use wings at all to do it so. . .?!?

[Caseas]

One explanation from a dev....

http://my.ddo.com/ddoqablog/

"Wings. It is real simple. It was OP. It was being used not as intended by a large part of the hardcore community. It was an easy button. Fixed. Personally the version going live is better for the health of the game. Now if you want to start a discussion about travel powers, that may be useful. Remember, all good gamers know Red Bull gives you wings."

Good or bad decision? I don't care, I'm gonna do the only thing it's in my power: no more money from me, ty dev team, you lost a(nother) paying customer

I challenge you not to buy the Druid when it gets released.

[ag_gair_eos_ard]

The best part is, everyone is just going to equip their 30% striders, get a shroud absorption item that they need to reduce whatever elemental damage, and dot/kite still. The nerf doesn't fix the problem, it just shows the devs have no understanding of their own game. Which, to be fair, is understandable. If they actually played their game at an endgame pace, maybe they would actually have a better idea.

People have been kiting in this game, and every other mmo out there ever since variable run speeds and DOT effects came into play. The silly idea that is all just people with "wings", is just that, silly. Bosses will still be kited in solo fashion. Good job devs, on fixing nothing.