Wizards out there

[DaSawks]

The 1 level of Sorc will cost you more than it gains. Pure Wizard is awesome and 18/2 Rogue or Monk is nice. Do you want awesome or nice. Evasion is nice but with low dex and reflex it is still just nice. Maxing INT with Max DC's are awesome. Again. Awesome or nice. Your choice.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

I think any combination of Wizard and Sorc is the worst multi-classed option in the game.

[Phidius]

... Evasion is nice but with low dex and reflex it is still just nice...

Are you including Insightful Reflexes in your comparison?

[jaegarnel]

The 1 level of Sorc will cost you more than it gains. Pure Wizard is awesome and 18/2 Rogue or Monk is nice. Do you want awesome or nice. Evasion is nice but with low dex and reflex it is still just nice. Maxing INT with Max DC's are awesome. Again. Awesome or nice. Your choice.

With insightful reflex, a wizard probably has the best reflex save of any class in the game except dex-based rogues and monks, so that evasion will likely mean no dmg 95% of the time. Even without evasion, it means 50% less dmg 95% of the time, quite a good investment of a feat imo.

[Aashrym]

The 1 level of Sorc will cost you more than it gains. Pure Wizard is awesome and 18/2 Rogue or Monk is nice. Do you want awesome or nice. Evasion is nice but with low dex and reflex it is still just nice. Maxing INT with Max DC's are awesome. Again. Awesome or nice. Your choice.

Wizards don't have low reflex unless they choose to have low reflex. Awesome or nice is misleading choice based on your opinion, which does not demonstrate how the splash has a low reflex.

[Aurora1979]

Just thought I would chime in here, ill prefix by adding my creditials. Ive capped a pure wiz and a 2 rogue splash and tried in my early days to splash wiz/sorc. However, I have not had an arcane since U9 so this may well be irrelevent....

but ill add it anyway

The rogue splash was extreamly capable of surviving. With that one char I soloed loads of really hard quests, at level with loot I picked up en route. He stood toe to toe with giant and dragon at level in GH tor, and done the same with all the vale and shavarath bosses.

Not easy mainly down to my abilites but he was just so solid, the HP, evasion and self healing just meant I could soak up so much and even end game was still getting stuck in with a great axe as well as casting. This was before the PRE's, I was heavly invested into fire spells.


The pure wiz I made mainly for soloing epics. Was an enchanter with a dreamspitter. Although planned for soloing epics I often ran in groups (as I do with all my chars particularly for raids). I used to love playing this character and I know many others hated it but personally i really enjoyed the hold/ de buff play style and my necro was high enough to work..... Im getting to much onto pre U9 which is irrelenvent.....

If I was going to roll another arcane soon I would go pure. Im sure evasion is still perfectly good but personally I DO find the capstone to be more worthwhile and also its more difficult then people make out to get high DC's. Dont get me wrong, its VERY do-able but first time your running through, especially if you are unguilded getting the bits and pieces together can take a while. You WILL get what you need loot wise im sure but mean time..... If its similar to U9 the differance between 38 DC and 41 is fairly noticable.... therefore I would make it easier for myself then probably do the rogue splash next life if I TR... having gotten some/ all the DC increasing items.

The sorc splash.... I wont tell someone not to play a character if they want to and all (read most) builds are workable and atleast a bit of fun but really, for what it gives you, you might as well roll a 19 wiz then not take the 20th level.

I got carried away there and most of its opinion but maybe gives a bit of help. Arcanes are good fun, im just in another place right now. Its not you, its me.

[The_Brave2]

I'm failing to see how insightful reflexes is a waste with or without evasion. It's worth quite a bit of damage mitigation at low cost on a class with bonus feats who will max INT regardless and take good advantage of it.

It's a waste of a feat regardless of whether or not you have evasion. You can have a high enough reflex to a point where it wont matter when you are fully geared. in any case, taking half damage from a spell isnt going to increase your survivability that much when you are already hitting 550ish HP with self heals. Sure if you are planning on soloing eChrono than evasion would help out alot, im simply advising on making a usable survivable wizard.

That 1DC is important from the Capstone, Multiclassing a Wiz and loosing that is a complete waste, especially for a newer player without the gear to back up the DC, when you are just starting to run epics you need to max out your DC as much as you can.

[Aashrym]

It's a waste of a feat regardless of whether or not you have evasion. You can have a high enough reflex to a point where it wont matter when you are fully geared. in any case, taking half damage from a spell isnt going to increase your survivability that much when you are already hitting 550ish HP with self heals. Sure if you are planning on soloing eChrono than evasion would help out alot, im simply advising on making a usable survivable wizard.

That 1DC is important from the Capstone, Multiclassing a Wiz and loosing that is a complete waste, especially for a newer player without the gear to back up the DC, when you are just starting to run epics you need to max out your DC as much as you can.

So your 1DC from the capstone is for this usable survivable wizard because that 1 DC makes him more usable and survivable than high reflex plus evasion? I'm not sure what you consider high enough, but INT based REF over the wizards normally low DEX is where I would call it good. Between build points, level ups, enhancements, and any other focus on INT like exceptional stats, yugo pots you are looking a huge loss on reflex save. That's easy damage reduction and doesn't cost additional resources. Evasion is one of the most common reasons to splash any class.

That one DC is almost meaningless in comparison to casters in general. If any other caster other than a wizard can be effective with DC's a wizard can be effective losing the capstone.

An evasion splashed wizard is absolutely usable and survivable. Insightful reflexes is absolutely more survivable with or without the splash.

If you have any concerns on running one in epics the resolution is running more non epic raids first and starting with easier epics. A person doesn't need 45 DC to run epics in house P or fens. They still run pretty well without even hitting 40 using enchantments and letting melee have fun as an example until the higher DC's are available. Webs for epic claw.

Just target weak saves, run in a group, keep grinding, and then eventually the DC's will be more than high enough for effective necroing and moving on to harder epics. Save FoD for low fort casters, maybe wail, maybe PWK for anything that might be a challenge to the group. Viable, usable, survivable.

You aren't describing a usable survivable wizard; you are describing the highest DC possible with the mistaken belief that 1 single DC on a class that still has higher DC's available through PrE's than other casters will gimp that class somehow, which still isn't true no matter how many times you try to repeat it.

[The_Brave2]

im describing how i would build a wizard. and having a lower DC for evasion isnt worth it, loosing the efficent meta's from the capstone is more sp cost for your spells, and loosing sp and spell caster levels on things like polar ray, niac's, eladars isnt worth having something that isnt necessary like evasion.

Just because you disagree doesnt mean you are right,

[phalaeo]

pure wiz is baisicly the only endgame viable wizard.

Lol, no.

[fool101]

Why are min/maxed builds always pushed so hard on people who are looking for basic build advise?

When first starting an arcane, I am a huge advocate of elf for spell pen help alone. You sure do lose out on at least 1 DC or even more if 18/2. But the grind to get to the maxed DC is pretty ridiculous anyway on a first life I feel it is better to fill in deficiencies. I don't know many first life arcanes that don't have spell pen issues when starting epics or high end below 20 content.

[Thrudh]

im describing how i would build a wizard. and having a lower DC for evasion isnt worth it, loosing the efficent meta's from the capstone is more sp cost for your spells, and loosing sp and spell caster levels on things like polar ray, niac's, eladars isnt worth having something that isnt necessary like evasion.

That is a much better post than the false statement that "pure wizard is the only way to be viable in epics".

Yes, splashing for evasion is a trade-off... I would probably agree with you that a first time player should stay pure...

But saying that an 18/2 wizard/rogue isn't viable in epic and that evasion and Insightful Reflexes are "worthless" is 100% incorrect.

[The_Brave2]

It all depends on your viewpoint, if you are a min/maxer like me having a higher DC is what its all about, and in the end for my playstyle its more fun than having evasion. its very gratifying fingering something knowing it wont succeed its save, lol.

I do apologise for saying that pure wiz is the only endgame viable wiz, i purely ment that from a min/maxer view point, multiclassing when you dont know what your doing is a huge mistake, and im seeing way to many 300hp 18/2 drow wizards with a 34 DC, it makes me sad. lol.

[Aashrym]

I do apologise for saying that pure wiz is the only endgame viable wiz, i purely ment that from a min/maxer view point, multiclassing when you dont know what your doing is a huge mistake, and im seeing way to many 300hp 18/2 drow wizards with a 34 DC, it makes me sad. lol.

I'm willing to bet the capstone wouldn't have given that caster 500+hp and a 42 DC tho. That goes beyond just missing a capstone.

[The_Brave2]

I'm willing to bet the capstone wouldn't have given that caster 500+hp and a 42 DC tho. That goes beyond just missing a capstone.

True, but still, little improvments add up

[Lycurgus]

Yes, splashing for evasion is a trade-off... I would probably agree with you that a first time player should stay pure...

I dunno about that. An ungeared, first life toon is going to be challenged breaking a 38-ish dc, meaning they're not going to be particularly effective in the more challenging epics no matter what they do. Similarly, the -/+2 spell pen isn't going to be enough to make a noticeable difference in success or failure on a first life. The epics where spell resistance presents a challenge (eChrono, eADQ1, and epic drow, imo) are going to be out of reach regardless. The reduced spell point cost of metas is trivial. From that perspective, you're not giving up a whole lot by splashing on a first life, and you are gaining a whole heckuva lot in terms of survivability.

For myself, my wizard is currently on his 5th life and I'm still torn as to whether the final life will be 18/2 or pure. The 18/2 tears up epics and is a LOT of fun. If I go pure, it will be for the feat, though, and not the +1 dc. By the time you're hitting mid-40s dcs, the extra +1 just isn't that big a deal.

[The_Brave2]

If I go pure, it will be for the feat, though, and not the +1 dc. By the time you're hitting mid-40s dcs, the extra +1 just isn't that big a deal.

If +1 wasnt a big deal people wouldnt use Yugo pots, its the little things
+1 capstone
+1 Ship
+1 Yugo
if +1 doesnt matter you just lost 3 DC's

[Lycurgus]

If +1 wasnt a big deal people wouldnt use Yugo pots, its the little things
+1 capstone
+1 Ship
+1 Yugo
if +1 doesnt matter you just lost 3 DC's

Context, context. When you're hitting mid-40s dcs, the extra +1 ain't all that.

[Vellrad]

I would like to say, that for newbie, WF is good race for wizard (if you have it).
If not, dwarf or human, and go palemaster.
Maximize int, remaining points into con, level ups to int.
But all races are good for wizard (except halforcs, unless its some crazy melee wiz build).

[Aashrym]

I dunno about that. An ungeared, first life toon is going to be challenged breaking a 38-ish dc, meaning they're not going to be particularly effective in the more challenging epics no matter what they do. Similarly, the -/+2 spell pen isn't going to be enough to make a noticeable difference in success or failure on a first life. The epics where spell resistance presents a challenge (eChrono, eADQ1, and epic drow, imo) are going to be out of reach regardless. The reduced spell point cost of metas is trivial. From that perspective, you're not giving up a whole lot by splashing on a first life, and you are gaining a whole heckuva lot in terms of survivability.

For myself, my wizard is currently on his 5th life and I'm still torn as to whether the final life will be 18/2 or pure. The 18/2 tears up epics and is a LOT of fun. If I go pure, it will be for the feat, though, and not the +1 dc. By the time you're hitting mid-40s dcs, the extra +1 just isn't that big a deal.

If you go monk you get a free feat for toughness and another free feat for concentration or more save bonus, or something else on the limited list. And a stance. That feat you possibly would have spent on toughness is freed up for another feat. Technically splashing 2 monk levels increases your total number of feats.

I'm guessing you were looking at a rogue splash?

Past lives for SR usually aren't used to increase SR anyway. They are normally used to not take spell penetration feats. More feats are better than more SR.