State of Crafting

[Ookami007]

At this point, the crafting system is a FAIL.

Perhaps because it was full of potential and when first introduced we all saw the potential, but that time has past.

The introduction of rare, grinding materials to make high level items and the removal of xp from shard deconstructing, shows me that this beast got away from them and now their trying to rein it in by limiting it to only a select few in a vain attempt to maintain balance.

The inclusion of ingredients from maximum favor options tells me they could care less about casual gamers and really created the crafting system to sell more. There really is no other conclusion, other than they are just idiots.... which I don't believe is true.

I've learned my lesson. I won't be trying anything else that is "beta". I wasted a TON of plat on leveling up my toon and now, it will be for nothing.

Most of the materials for high level shards require as much, or more grinding that making GS, so I'm just going to stick with GS for my toons. They level up fast enough and I'll just run epics and epic raids.

The fact is, the gear you can make is only slightly more powerful than much of the better pack gear and you level up so fast, that you quickly outgrow it. And when you do, it either goes in your bank for your next life... or you vendor trash it (since no xp for deconstruct and you can't even upgrade it now)

There are only a few exceptions... +4 attack, HBoGB, etc. And those items require insane grind ingredients - time I can better spend doing raids (for loot and completions) and farming things I can sell for plat - taps, boot ing, etc.

Considering how much of a grind it was to get my toon to where he is, and considering it will be even MORE of a grind with even LESS xp for newer crafting - I really think crafting will become a thing of the elite with casual gamers selling their loot and essences to the elite to make plat so they can buy gear, ingred, etc.

Thanks for the fail DDO. If you want some real ideas on how to make a real crafting system - play a few other MMO's. Many of them have fully developed, balanced crafting systems you could learn from.

So... A for the idea (and an A- at that), but F for implementation.

EPIC FAIL.

[Khurse]

At this point, the crafting system is a FAIL.

Perhaps because it was full of potential and when first introduced we all saw the potential, but that time has past.

The introduction of rare, grinding materials to make high level items and the removal of xp from shard deconstructing, shows me that this beast got away from them and now their trying to rein it in by limiting it to only a select few in a vain attempt to maintain balance.

The inclusion of ingredients from maximum favor options tells me they could care less about casual gamers and really created the crafting system to sell more. There really is no other conclusion, other than they are just idiots.... which I don't believe is true.

I've learned my lesson. I won't be trying anything else that is "beta". I wasted a TON of plat on leveling up my toon and now, it will be for nothing.

Most of the materials for high level shards require as much, or more grinding that making GS, so I'm just going to stick with GS for my toons. They level up fast enough and I'll just run epics and epic raids.

The fact is, the gear you can make is only slightly more powerful than much of the better pack gear and you level up so fast, that you quickly outgrow it. And when you do, it either goes in your bank for your next life... or you vendor trash it (since no xp for deconstruct and you can't even upgrade it now)

There are only a few exceptions... +4 attack, HBoGB, etc. And those items require insane grind ingredients - time I can better spend doing raids (for loot and completions) and farming things I can sell for plat - taps, boot ing, etc.

Considering how much of a grind it was to get my toon to where he is, and considering it will be even MORE of a grind with even LESS xp for newer crafting - I really think crafting will become a thing of the elite with casual gamers selling their loot and essences to the elite to make plat so they can buy gear, ingred, etc.

Thanks for the fail DDO. If you want some real ideas on how to make a real crafting system - play a few other MMO's. Many of them have fully developed, balanced crafting systems you could learn from.

So... A for the idea (and an A- at that), but F for implementation.

EPIC FAIL.

And I think casual gamers who realize that they can relatively easily craft (for example) +3/+4 Holy of Bane Dr bypassing weapons will be pleased that they have something to use without having to/while they grind out greensteel.

Good Job, Crafting guys.

[Galeria]

I love the idea of turning in junk crafted items for XP or other rewards. One of the reasons I don't put a lot of time into crafting is that it kills me to make perfectly good items that I'm never going to use and simply destroy them for crafting XP.

I wouldn't even mind turning in multiple crafted items for said rewards since you have to make a lot of junk to get to the point where you can make the items you really want.

[negativeprogression]

Q. What can I do to improve crafting?
A. Give us your feedback as constructively as you can. It's in everyone's best interest for us to make crafting as fun and fair as we can. We need your feedback.

With crafting being disabled for just a short time it has become apparent to me that crafting just isn't fun. I find myself relieved that I can just sell the loot that I obtain and move on to another quest.

For me, cannith crafting offers nothing in the way of gameplay. It's just senseless button clicking. Whilst I can tolerate the previous iterations of item combination this is ridiculous beyond measure. Theres no skill involved in the system, no depth, no way to stand out as a competent crafter beyond having wasted an inordinate amount of spare time clicking a button to achieve a high level. Furthermore, I don't think this can be fixed by simply changing the ingredients required. It's a product of the way item effects work; discreet, small bonus' allow no room for crafting to justify being a seperate and lengthy grind as it is.

The only way that I can see crafting improving would be if there was some kind of game involved in the crafting process; perhaps a kind of puzzle game. So instead of needing to grind to level 100 to make a shard, they player instead needs to have the skill to play the crafting puzzle to a certain level to make a particular shard. Then instead of needing to play all the way through to that level every time they want that shard, they could start at any level they have previously completed to create another. So whilst it would be hard and time consuming to make a greater evil outsider bane shard the first time they play, it would be possible, and they could also work their way towards that goal aswell if they fail.

The crafting ingredients could still be used aswell- as a pre-requisite for starting the game. More could be required for starting at higher levels. So you could have the option of using a lot of ingredients to start at a high level (that you have already achieved), or you could make a high level shard for low cost by playing all the way from level 1 every time.

In practise you would play the game, get to a level where you fail (either on purpose or by accident) and then be presented with a list of shards you are elegable to craft from that session.

In fact the game needn't be a puzzle game; it could be a shoot em up or platform game, anything would be better than nothing IMO.

To sum up, I think that crafting can be so much more than just item combination, and to really have a place as a seperate part of the game it needs to be so much more.

[daddio42]

I (and perhaps others) would appreciate it (and be better able to follow such interactive threads), if MadFloyd, Eladrin, etc., would be sure to allow their posts to be followed via the "Dev Tracker."

[voodoogroves]

Is there any chance we can simply get to a single essence instead of big/little? They are essentially the same, just in differing quantities and for many people provide an additional step for transmutation, etc.

[vVAnjilaVv]

Agreed...all crafting materials should be basic unless you adding an Epic tier at some point.

It was fine how it was...increase Essences needed IMO if you want...but ditch the rest of the stuff.

Of course I have not seen all the changes but special items should only be needed for very powerful items and they should have a lower ML requirement as well.

[Solmage]

Crafted items can excel against specific foes, but high end named items will often be better in general.

Yes, but the problem is that a SINGLE crafted item will excel at a single role. But since I never have to fight Arretrikos, Velah, and Wizard King all at the same time, in practice, this becomes completely moot, since I can (and will) simply craft a specific weapon for each specific raid.

Perhaps we could un-nerf min IIs back into real transmuting, so that they really become a better general weapon, rather than just a slightly broader, yet in all cases inferior solution? It would still remain inferior, but at least it'd be more universal, of special use for kensai's?

Right now, the highest DPS raid DPS weapon I can obtain is a lightning 2. The highest epic weapon is the chaosblade, which until you folks revamp the desert, isn't realistic to consider for more than a handful or so of your customers. Both are situational weapons however, so why, exactly, wouldn't I simply craft superior situational weapons instead and skip the raiding and epic grind, and just use a +1 tome and have a good laugh?

[stainer]

I (and perhaps others) would appreciate it (and be better able to follow such interactive threads), if MadFloyd, Eladrin, etc., would be sure to allow their posts to be followed via the "Dev Tracker."

There is a separate dev tracker for the Lam forums.

[jggbear]

Hi MadFloyd

Its nice to see some of the things corrected for crafting, I love crafting to allow my TR character to have gear on all levels, but I have a couple of questions:

1. Why the Min level is higher than random loot, crafting should be able to create the same weapon/item with the same min level than normal loot.

2. Please make crafted stuff to work with rituals without affecting the min level, the + required etc. Rituals should be free for all as it is now. I can put a force ritual on an epic, greensteel, dragontouched or random loot without any penalties, why crafted items is different?.

3. Number 2 also applies to Rissia rituals, please, allow Rissia rituals apply to crafted items without altering its level.

4. Please allow different effects to be applied to different things like boots of strength or gloves of charisma.

thanks and I look forward to hear your comments

[MadFloyd]

It's a HUGE mistake to make higher level recipes require rare ingredients AND make it so that item deconstruction no longer grants xp.

Item deconstruction still grants XP if the item has never been deconstructed before.

[MadFloyd]

The inclusion of ingredients from maximum favor options tells me they could care less about casual gamers and really created the crafting system to sell more.

Favor is not required for crafting ingredients. It does make it more convenient, but is not the sole way of acquiring the ingredient.

I assume you're referring to the Silver Flame item, which has been changed. If not, please be specific.

Grinding out high favor should have rewards, but not be pre-requesites for crafting.

[Raiderone]

So how soon can we expect U10 Patch2 to go live?

Cause those items for deconstruction are really building up!
Really I've filled up two or three toons banks and additional storage on toon.

Must have 150 to 200 items to deconstruct...

[Cyr]

Item deconstruction still grants XP if the item has never been deconstructed before.

I'm pretty sure the poster was referring to RUKRAZY method of leveling crafting as just deconning random loot is about as ineffiecient and slow a method of leveling at high levels as I can think of.

The poster has a point. High level rare ingredients coupled with the removal of the only efficient way to level at high levels makes for effective costs to level at higher crafting levels MUCH higher then they were.

[MadFloyd]

I (and perhaps others) would appreciate it (and be better able to follow such interactive threads), if MadFloyd, Eladrin, etc., would be sure to allow their posts to be followed via the "Dev Tracker."

I had no idea they were not being tracked, I'll look into it.

EDIT: Nevermind, I see that someone already posted the answer: a separate dev tracker for Lamannia.

[Raiderone]

I'm pretty sure the poster was referring to RUKRAZY method of leveling crafting as just deconning random loot is about as ineffiecient and slow a method of leveling at high levels as I can think of.

The poster has a point. High level rare ingredients coupled with the removal of the only efficient way to level at high levels makes for effective costs to level at higher crafting levels MUCH higher then they were.

I see all MadFloyd's Posts in Lamannia Dev Tracker...

[dragons1ayer74]

One thing that might help make crafting more casual-player-friendly - add a quest with a significant repeat timer (66 hours like raids perhaps), where an NPC asks you to make a specific low level item (perhaps a +1 acid touch shortsword of lesser goblinoid bane) and return it to them. The reward would be a significant chunk of crafting XP (maybe 300 in an appropriate school), and a BtC Purified Eberron Dragonshard. The Dragonshard comes with the advice 'Save this, master crafters put these to good use, and one day you'll want them'.
...

Another suggestion that's been made before - we should be able to craft consumables sometime. Here's some ideas (a few have been posted before):
...

Both excellent ideas. There needs to be more ways to level up once you get into the very tough levels of crafting, now that the click your way to level is gone and we have lost recipes from a narrow list to use to attain crafting XP.

[bradleyforrest]

I had no idea they were not being tracked, I'll look into it.

They were looking into the live tracker, not the Lam tracker.

[bradleyforrest]

Item deconstruction still grants XP if the item has never been deconstructed before.

You're missing the point on this. Once you get up to the high levels, it very hard to level up without a massive investment in essences and, potentially, rare ingredients. You simply don't deconstruct enough loot to level up at a reasonable pace at high level.

Grinding shards solved this problem by offering a method to level to where there were some reasonable options.

[Chai]

You're missing the point on this. Once you get up to the high levels, it very hard to level up without a massive investment in essences and, potentially, rare ingredients. You simply don't deconstruct enough loot to level up at a reasonable pace at high level.

Grinding shards solved this problem by offering a method to level to where there were some reasonable options.

I dont think hes missing the point. I think that -IS- the point. Macro leveling was a little to no cost leveling solution, all the way up and took people a few days to do.

Reasonable pace is a matter of opinion. With shards being BTA meaning we only need one crafter per account. Leveling at a slower pace is reasonable. Even 3-6 months is reasonable for something you will never have to do again.