State of Crafting

[vVAnjilaVv]

I still completely disagree......anything done at the crafting stations once inside the Hall should yield crafting XP....ANYTHING.

Limit it...I'm fine with...remove it completely......just another example of how DDO remains a game that remains hopelessly unbalanced because extremism is obviously the method of choice for pretty much all game change decisions here


Teeter Totters are for Tater Tots

[vVAnjilaVv]

I will speak for myself:

I believe a game with more Pay2Win and Click2Win would be less enjoyable for me to play. I believe those properties could potentially warp and distort the game, and its community, in ways contrary to what I want. I will, therefore, argue against any addition of those things.

Don't pretend you're not expressing a personal point of view. You are. You are saying that giving players more options can never affect the players that don't use those options. That is your point of view. I disagree with it.

Segregation is already a HUGE part of this game...at this point what does it matter?

[Yaga_Nub]

...
Its not about my point of view at all actually. Its about intended game design. Its pretty obvious what was intended, and macro leveling wasnt it, as clearly defined by the removal of the mechanic which allowed it.

Saying it's obvious after the fact doesn't really prove anything. What if I said that it obvious that it was intended because it was available for use at some point. Using your logic then it must have been so.

Never talk about intended game design unless you a) are one of the devs of that game (which you're not), or b) have a post that is very clear about what was intended from one of the devs (which you don't at this time).

[Yaga_Nub]

....
Feel free to dispute me though. Design a game that changes numbers on a screen based on the number of times you click a button. Post it up on the web and see how many people are willing to pay you to play it.

I don't have to, it's already here and it's called DDO.

[Chai]

Saying it's obvious after the fact doesn't really prove anything. What if I said that it obvious that it was intended because it was available for use at some point. Using your logic then it must have been so.

People do this all the time. I saw that comment in the twitch THF combat threads alot, right up to and until glances while moving was done away with heh. I saw it alot in threads about the barbarian past life too until they came out and said it was not WAI. Both were obvious oversights in game design, and labeled conjecture by those who benefitted from them. Then people carry on about not being able to talk about how we know or dont know. Paaaahhleeeez.

Never talk about intended game design unless you a) are one of the devs of that game (which you're not), or b) have a post that is very clear about what was intended from one of the devs (which you don't at this time).

I can talk about it all I want, because while I dont have a clear post, I have very clear action, in their removal of the mechanic which created the issue in the first place, which backs up what Im saying. If they intend on macro leveling being part of the game they can go ahead and put it right back in.

[grodon9999]

Saying it's obvious after the fact doesn't really prove anything. What if I said that it obvious that it was intended because it was available for use at some point. Using your logic then it must have been so.

Never talk about intended game design unless you a) are one of the devs of that game (which you're not), or b) have a post that is very clear about what was intended from one of the devs (which you don't at this time).

That is a ridiculous statement. Crafting was changed to not allow this, it is clearly not intended.

[Darkrok]

I don't have to, it's already here and it's called DDO.

Ahhh, that's harsh. I'd say DDO's as far from that as pretty much any MMO out there. Now if you'd said that's all MMO's I'd be more inclined to agree although I do think there's at least a touch of skill there in the best ones.

[vVAnjilaVv]

Come on now....you guys wanna keep it simple for those of us with the lower IQ's.........



what do I look like some kind of Tolstoyan Rocket Scientist!?

[dkyle]

Segregation is already a HUGE part of this game...at this point what does it matter?

It is?

Almost everything I run is a PUG. I'm rarely available for guild runs, and even if I am, many spots are almost always PUGged out. I play with any and all players running the content I want to run.

Yeah, there's a separation between newbs leveling up their first character, and vets running Raids for the 200th time, but in time, newbs become vets. It's only "segregation" in the sense that grade school students are "segregated" from college students. It's just a natural result of how the world works.

[taurean430]

I remain curious regarding the possibility of being able to craft higher level superior impact, for example. Or higher leveled items that boost the abilities of my arcane/divine casters. To be fair, there hasn't been anything I've seen yet that has been motivating enough for me to divide time away from Raiding/TR'ing.

For example; I can run 12 of my 16 toons through EVON6 in search of the shards of the belt and helm for my cleric. I know it's there and one day I will be lucky enough to obtain it. Crafting on the other hand in what I've seen insofar doesn't offer me anything that would be of interest to my toons save a superior brilliance 5 item. My melee/arcane remain uninterested due to nothing truly useful compared to what they already have.

Having not taken the time to seriously try out crafting, I could be completely unaware regarding what you can make. Most of my information has come from reading posts and talking with other players while playing the game. I could be uninformed. But so far I've yet to see anything that makes it worthwhile to apply time and effort in gaining crafting levels.

I'd like to see the ability to create items that are useful and worth making for divine/arcane/bardic casters. There are quite a few players out there like myself that have little to no interest in gaining a couple of points of dps by grinding out lawful outsider bane weapons.

[vVAnjilaVv]

I'm cool with it being removed if that is what was causing all the heinous lag....but we all know how good the lag expert analysis is around these parts.

[Chai]

I'm cool with it being removed if that is what was causing all the heinous lag....but we all know how good the lag expert analysis is around these parts.

Its not my fault. Im THF.

[Arnhelm]

Spent a little time crafting this afternoon, with a brief Greater Halfling break. Haven't died that fast in a long while.

From a beginner perspective, the intro quest ran fine, multiple deconstructions worked without a hitch, and as far as I could tell up to level 16ish everything was fine.

[vVAnjilaVv]

Its not my fault. Im THF.

Irrelevant....I'm a Wizard and I make far less sense than you!

[Cordovan]

Please keep the discussion on-topic, there is no need to get into a heated discussion over join dates or varying definitions of words.

[vVAnjilaVv]

Seriously...that's it...not even 100 replies yet......I'm pretty disappointed here.

Might I suggest not removing any shards that can be created now but moving bound crafting to 200.......that should get us rolling again. :P

[waterboytkd]

I for one am glad for the abolition of xp for deconstructing shards. Now, there's absolutely no reason why they can't give us a craft all button, a deconstruct all button, and a transmute all button. Before, with the xp gain, if we had those, people could be 100/100/100 in less than a day. Now, we can get those and it won't break the crafting system.

[Dandonk]

Arrows etc:
I don't like this mechanic. I understand the point, but now we need yet another bag in our inventory in order to facilitate crafting. On those that have ranged characters, they will now have to be careful that any looted arrows don't end up in the quiver they're using so they'll fire them off (if they want to use for crafting).
Any items that don't fit in the ingredient or collectable type bag, I don't like for crafting. It makes it too clunky to use, IMO.

Purified shards:
If the drop rate is high enough that regular crafters (as opposed to those wanting to outfit all 20 of their characters at once... like me) can just use what they loot and be fine, I feel OK about it. If the drop rate is like the diamonds are on live currently (I have had 3 drop, total... AND they're BTC, not even BTA? woot?)... no thanks.

Using tomes:
I think this will have serious unintended consequnces for casual/new players. Getting tomes for TWF builds, for instance, will be next to impossible.
Also... for some of us, tome drop rate sucks. I have looted 1 +1 tome and 3 +2 tomes in the last three months, I believe. Woo. And it isn't like I have't been playing much... (the first step is admitting you have a problem... it's the second step, wanting to do something about it that I seem to have problems with)

Alternate route:
I love this idea. You don't have to have access to any specific part of the game in order to make a decent weapon, you can just craft...
... oh, wait, you still need shroud to make the weapons for devils, and so on... so it doesn't really work like that, does it?

Rare ingredients:
Well, I'd have loved to have churned out uber boss beaters for all my characters once I got there, but I understand the need to have the cost to make one somewhat balanced. Just be careful you don't make it too expensive - it will kill the crafting game for casual/new players. Some things, like dragon blood (but not limited to), are very, very rare (at least for me).

Money from deconstruction:
Great idea! I love this!
Yes, crafting should be a plat sink, but I like that it doesn't inconvenience lower level players as much.

XP for levelling:
Now that the useful shards are much more expensive to make, please consider lowering the xp needed to level. First off, the cost to make the first decent weapon is now much, much higher than before - lowering the grind for craft levels somewhat would help balance this out.
Also, the useful shards are now so expensive that they're more or less unavailable for craft levelling, so it's somewhat harder to find good xp while crafting up.

No XP for decon of shards:
Good idea. This had serious uintended (I hope) consequences on how people levelled their crafting.

[Khurse]

Alternate route:
I love this idea. You don't have to have access to any specific part of the game in order to make a decent weapon, you can just craft...
... oh, wait, you still need shroud to make the weapons for devils, and so on... so it doesn't really work like that, does it?

No, you need access to Shroud,Amrath, or DA to craft Devil Beaters.

XP for levelling:
Now that the useful shards are much more expensive to make, please consider lowering the xp needed to level. First off, the cost to make the first decent weapon is now much, much higher than before - lowering the grind for craft levels somewhat would help balance this out.
.

Not really, you can make a +4 Holy of Bane weapon (DR breaker if needed obviously) at level 35 Arcane,31 Divine.
That's a relatively low level to create a pretty decent weapon.

[vVAnjilaVv]

Using tomes:
I think this will have serious unintended consequnces for casual/new players. Getting tomes for TWF builds, for instance, will be next to impossible.
Also... for some of us, tome drop rate sucks. I have looted 1 +1 tome and 3 +2 tomes in the last three months, I believe. Woo. And it isn't like I have't been playing much... (the first step is admitting you have a problem... it's the second step, wanting to do something about it that I seem to have problems with)

IMO, if they want to help out newer players they should remove the ability to be able to buy items from the brokers and AH for use in decons period.

The AH is hideous now.

I don't mean for disjunctioning.....but people buying up everything for decons certainly does not make things very available anymore.

Used to be fun looking around on the AH seeing what you could pick up for actual use.....now I am paying an arm and a leg just to charge up my High Energy Cells with weapons that a few months ago people didn't think twice about practically throwing away.

Way to go on the tomes tho...brilliant...great way to incline people to "BUY" them from the store.....even if you can't use the store bought ones in crafting people will buy store ones for their toons stats to save game pulled ones for crafting.

I was actually happy to give away tomes a lot of times to people in need of help.........that won't be a general in game happening as much anymore. Keep crafting about common items....until it gets to a certain level shards......like top tier shards.......I think adding in all this other stuff at lower levels is a mistake.