Savant SLA comparison

[Ridag]

I've been wanting to see the SLAs directly compared for awhile now, but haven't seen anyone attempt it yet so I might as well give it a shot. I'll probably mess it all up, but that's what you helpful posters are here for, right?!?

Assumptions - Max+Emp+Capstone. All 3 Tiers of Savant (+3 MCL) with applicable enhancements completely maxed out, ToD set bonus (+2 MCL) which also assumes that these bonuses are correctly applying to the SLAs. Also assumes Savant ToD belt clickie is running and Major Lore. This will be a straight damage comparison, not sure how to weigh things like saves and spell schools.

Math as I understand it is base damage * max+emp+capstone = 2.7 * clickie+enhancement = 2.25 * crit multiplier+major lore = 2.75

So: base*2.7*2.25*2.75 if that is less than correct please let me know. I'm also rounding everything down, to err on the side of caution.



T1 - Shocking Grasp, Acid Spray, Burning Hand's, Niac's Cold Ray

Shocking Grasp is melee range single target10d3 +30 (40-60 base) with no save. 243 - 364 non-crit / 668 - 1002 crit

Acid Spray is short range area effect 10d2 +20 (30 - 40 base) with a reflex save for half (Evocation). 182 - 243 non-crit / 501 - 668 crit

Burning Hands is short range area effect 10d2 +20 (30 - 40 base) with a reflex save for half (Evocation). 182 - 243 non-crit / 501 - 668 crit

Niac's is a long range single target 10d5 +50 (60-100 base) with a Reflex save for zero damage (Conjuration). 364 - 607 non-crit / 1002 - 1670 crit

Opinion -

Shocking Grasp is the most reliable, but with the highest risk. Very nice to use on CC'd mobs. I'd say this is the second best T1 SLA.

Acid Spray and Burning Hands are the same spell with a different flavor, I'm not sure if the AE is the same size on both. They tie for weakest of the T1 SLAs.

Niac's is a very nice SLA, high damage, long range, but the save for no damage combined with being in the Conjuration school hurts it. This is the best of the T1 SLAs hands down and the higher you can get your Conjuration DC and the more you can debuff reflex saves (Solid Fog, Waves of Exhaustion) the more you will land it.

[Ridag]

T2 - Electric Loop, Melf's Acid Arrow, Scorch, Snowball Swarm

Electric Loop is normal range area effect 7d3 +21 (28 - 42 base) with a Reflex save for half (Evocation). 170 - 255 non-crit / 467 - 701 crit

Melf's Acid arrow is long range single target 2d4 +12 per tick (14 - 20 base) with no save. 85 - 121 non-crit / 233 - 334 crit per tick

Scorch is a medium range (?) area effect 7d4+28 (35 - 56 base) with a reflex save for half. 212 - 340 non-crit / 584 - 935 crit

Snowball Swarm is a normal range area effect 7d3+21 (28 - 42 base) with a reflex save for half. 170 - 255 non-crit / 467 - 701 crit

Opinion -

Electric Loop has good damage and also has a daze component if the mob does not make their reflex save they must then make a will save or be dazed. I'd rank this as the second strongest T2 SLA.

Melf's is an amazing SLA, good damage per tick, long range and no save. Easily the strongest of the T2 SLAs, the only (very minor) downside being that if the target dies before it has had the chance to run its course the rest of the ticks are wasted.

Scorch has a straight line type area of effect, which does limit it some, but that is made up for with the higher base damage than the other AE SLAs in this tier. I'd rank this third out of the T2 SLAs.

Snowball swarm has the same damage as electric loop, without the added benefit of the daze component. It also seems to have a small delay between casting and damage, which can make it difficult to land while kiting. The weakest of the T2 SLAs.

[Ridag]

T3 - Lightning Bolt, Acid Blast, Fireball, Frost Lance

Lightning Bolt is long range and hits each target in its path for 15d3+45 (60 - 90 base) with a 50% chance to fork (double strike) and a reflex save for half. 364 - 546 non-crit / 1002 - 1503 crit

Acid Blast is normal range area effect 15d3+45 (60 - 90 base) with a reflex save for half. 364 - 546 non-crit / 1002 - 1503 crit

Fireball is normal range area effect 15d3+45 (60 - 90 base) with a reflex save for half. 364 - 546 non-crit / 1002 - 1503 crit

Frost Lance is long range single target 4d5+20 per lance with a maximum of 3 lances (+MCL does not increase number of lances) (24 - 40 base) with a fortitude save for half. 145 - 243 non-crit / 400 - 668 crit per lance

Opinion -

Lightning Bolt, Acid Blast and Fireball all have the same damage. Acid Blast seems to have a smaller area of effect than Fireball and will not break down doors like Fireball will. Lightning Bolt has the limitation of only hitting targets in a straight line but the benefit of 50% double strike chance makes up for that limitation. The deciding factor here is that you get these SLAs at level 18, when Fire has lost a lot of its usefulness due to immunities. I'd rank Lightning Bolt first, Acid Blast second and Fireball third for the T3 SLAs.

Frost Lance has a few problems. Yes, it does target Fortitude as it's save, which means it cannot be evaded and that is all well and good. The problem is that the number of lances does not increase past 3, limiting damage. Also each lance has its own crit roll, making it that much more difficult to attain max damage on a single target. It's also the only single target SLA in this tier and yet is not as good as Acid's T2 single target SLA. The weakest of the T3 SLAs by a fair margin.



Please bear in mind that my analysis is just my opinion, based on the way I value spells for my play style. You should not determine which Savant is the best for you by the SLAs alone, there is so much more to playing a savant then the SLAs.

I just wanted to write this out to see it in text, it helps me think about the spells and the choices that I make for my Sorcerer. I hope that some found it useful or informative.

I also hope that my math is correct and put a huge disclaimer on that part of the post!

Always keep in mind that damage numbers are subject to other factors, such as resistances, saves, immunities, how you are geared, if you have a clickie running etc etc.

Thanks for reading!

[Ridag]

Reserved for possible future use.

[unknownturok]

T3 - Lightning Bolt, Acid Blast, Fireball, Frost Lance

Lightning Bolt is long range and hits each target in its path for 15d3+45 (60 - 90 base) with a 50% chance to fork (double strike) and a reflex save for half. 364 - 546 non-crit / 1002 - 1503 crit

Acid Blast is normal range area effect 15d3+45 (60 - 90 base) with a reflex save for half. 364 - 546 non-crit / 1002 - 1503 crit

Fireball is normal range area effect 15d3+45 (60 - 90 base) with a reflex save for half. 364 - 546 non-crit / 1002 - 1503 crit

Frost Lance is long range single target 4d5+20 per lance with a maximum of 3 lances (+MCL does not increase number of lances) (24 - 40 base) with a fortitude save for half. 145 - 243 non-crit / 400 - 668 crit per lance

Opinion -

Lightning Bolt, Acid Blast and Fireball all have the same damage. Acid Blast seems to have a smaller area of effect than Fireball and will not break down doors like Fireball will. Lightning Bolt has the limitation of only hitting targets in a straight line but the benefit of 50% double strike chance makes up for that limitation. The deciding factor here is that you get these SLAs at level 18, when Fire has lost a lot of its usefulness due to immunities. I'd rank Lightning Bolt first, Acid Blast second and Fireball third for the T3 SLAs.

Frost Lance has a few problems. Yes, it does target Fortitude as it's save, which means it cannot be evaded and that is all well and good. The problem is that the number of lances does not increase past 3, limiting damage. Also each lance has its own crit roll, making it that much more difficult to attain max damage on a single target. It's also the only single target SLA in this tier and yet is not as good as Acid's T2 single target SLA. The weakest of the T3 SLAs by a fair margin.



Please bear in mind that my analysis is just my opinion, based on the way I value spells for my play style. You should not determine which Savant is the best for you by the SLAs alone, there is so much more to playing a savant then the SLAs.

I just wanted to write this out to see it in text, it helps me think about the spells and the choices that I make for my Sorcerer. I hope that some found it useful or informative.

I also hope that my math is correct and put a huge disclaimer on that part of the post!

Always keep in mind that damage numbers are subject to other factors, such as resistances, saves, immunities, how you are geared, if you have a clickie running etc etc.

Thanks for reading!

This is cool +1
i like how you did the math so i dont have too lol, the best over all is air

[Asketes]

I've broken down pipes (confirmed myself) with acid blast and i'm FAIRLY certain I broke a door in the harbinger series with acid blast.

I'll confirm tonight

[Ridag]

This is cool +1
i like how you did the math so i dont have too lol, the best over all is air

Thanks! I would agree that Air has the best all around SLAs.

I've broken down pipes (confirmed myself) with acid blast and i'm FAIRLY certain I broke a door in the harbinger series with acid blast.

I'll confirm tonight

I test on doors in Trial By Fire, it may have changed though as this was pre-update 9. Please let me know if you are able to break doors with it now.

[stille_nacht]

T3 - Lightning Bolt, Acid Blast, Fireball, Frost Lance

Lightning Bolt is long range and hits each target in its path for 15d3+45 (60 - 90 base) with a 50% chance to fork (double strike) and a reflex save for half. 364 - 546 non-crit / 1002 - 1503 crit

Acid Blast is normal range area effect 15d3+45 (60 - 90 base) with a reflex save for half. 364 - 546 non-crit / 1002 - 1503 crit

Fireball is normal range area effect 15d3+45 (60 - 90 base) with a reflex save for half. 364 - 546 non-crit / 1002 - 1503 crit

Frost Lance is long range single target 4d5+20 per lance with a maximum of 3 lances (+MCL does not increase number of lances) (24 - 40 base) with a fortitude save for half. 145 - 243 non-crit / 400 - 668 crit per lance

Opinion -
Frost Lance has a few problems. Yes, it does target Fortitude as it's save, which means it cannot be evaded and that is all well and good. The problem is that the number of lances does not increase past 3, limiting damage. Also each lance has its own crit roll, making it that much more difficult to attain max damage on a single target. It's also the only single target SLA in this tier and yet is not as good as Acid's T2 single target SLA. The weakest of the T3 SLAs by a fair margin.

Just playing devil's advocate here, i think your anlysis of frost lance is slightly flawed.
First- technically it has the highest base damage, even though it is limited to 3 lances, while it is true that it doesnt continue scaling, 1200-2004 is still higher than 1002-1503, and 435-729 is still higher than 364-546. (of course this is assuming nobody makes saves, which will change depending on if enemy has evasion, what saves, blahblah).
second- even though each lance has its own crit roll, it is still the same crit percentage. EX: 3 attacks for 1/3 damage will crit 3 times as often in regards to single attacks. The crit addition to damage may be more spread out, but it is still the same as the other SLAs.

but it is only single target :[, which is a big reducer of effective dps when compared to AOEs, i would still rate it the worst

[Ridag]

Just playing devil's advocate here, i think your anlysis of frost lance is slightly flawed.
First- technically it has the highest base damage, even though it is limited to 3 lances, while it is true that it doesnt continue scaling, 1200-2004 is still higher than 1002-1503, and 435-729 is still higher than 364-546. (of course this is assuming nobody makes saves, which will change depending on if enemy has evasion, what saves, blahblah).
second- even though each lance has its own crit roll, it is still the same crit percentage. EX: 3 attacks for 1/3 damage will crit 3 times as often in regards to single attacks. The crit addition to damage may be more spread out, but it is still the same as the other SLAs.

but it is only single target :[, which is a big reducer of effective dps when compared to AOEs, i would still rate it the worst

I understand your point here, and understand that my opinion is meant more to highlight the fact that the number of lances should increase with +MCL more than anything else.

My point on the crit chance is that if you cast any of the other T3 SLAs you get 1 crit roll for each target that it hits and you get full crit damage on the spell. For Frost Lance you can get crit/non/non or any variations there of and the chances of rolling three crits in a row is lower than rolling one crit on any of the other SLAs and even rolling crit/crit/non is less damage then a crit on any of the others. So the AE SLAs are better on single targets than the single target SLA, Lightning Bolt by far due to the double strike.

The fact that it is single target is really what drops it to the bottom of the list of T3 SLAs. Water really got kind of hosed on AE SLAs all the way around, perhaps because it is the strongest single target DPS of all the Savants.

[shagath]

Finally someone did this. I'm too lazy for this kind of math. Nice work. +1

Your opinion that is based on math goes same as my actual play-test. From what I've played around with savants, air has strongest SLAs and earth second strongest. I'm not gonna try fire at cap but water rates lowest of those three.

[Crazyfruit]

Acid Spray and Burning Hands are the same spell with a different flavor, I'm not sure if the AE is the same size on both. They tie for weakest of the T1 SLAs.

...

Scorch has a straight line type area of effect, which does limit it some, but that is made up for with the higher base damage than the other AE SLAs in this tier. I'd rank this third out of the T2 SLAs.

Acid Spray, Burning Hands (probably), and Scorch can all hit more than once. I've had a few "Gotcha 4 times!" with Scorch.

Also the AOE of Scorch seems pretty huge (for a line spell) & can be controlled a bit with turning. If you spin really fast you might be surprised how well it does.

[Ridag]

Acid Spray, Burning Hands (probably), and Scorch can all hit more than once. I've had a few "Gotcha 4 times!" with Scorch.

Also the AOE of Scorch seems pretty huge (for a line spell) & can be controlled a bit with turning. If you spin really fast you might be surprised how well it does.

Very interesting, I wasn't aware that you could hit the same target more than once with any of them. Can you repeat that behavior on the spells easily, or is it just more of "lucky shot" kind of thing?

[Eistander]

Being a proponent of Earth savant (yeah I know all the hubbub about it being the weakest, already have a capped water sorc too lol), I have to admit that the utility of the tier 3 SLA being Acid Blast is useful in the sense that you can still web stuff and blast to your hearts content without breaking the web.. very handy when wanting to lay some DPS down while maintaining some measure of CC.

Just my 2 cp.

[Crazyfruit]

Very interesting, I wasn't aware that you could hit the same target more than once with any of them. Can you repeat that behavior on the spells easily, or is it just more of "lucky shot" kind of thing?

Twice is easy. 4x Scorch is more like hitting twice & getting the lucky shot.

[Memnir]

A +Rep to ya.

[NUDS]

Very interesting, I wasn't aware that you could hit the same target more than once with any of them. Can you repeat that behavior on the spells easily, or is it just more of "lucky shot" kind of thing?

I think it works best when either you or the target are moving, with a slight amount of lag mixed in.

I managed to hit a mob with 3 separate damage rolls with one Burning Hands once :P

It's probably because once you have hit the mob with the original damage roll, moving slightly makes them take additional damage rolls, sort of like kiting with a BB I guess.

[Ridag]

Being a proponent of Earth savant (yeah I know all the hubbub about it being the weakest, already have a capped water sorc too lol), I have to admit that the utility of the tier 3 SLA being Acid Blast is useful in the sense that you can still web stuff and blast to your hearts content without breaking the web.. very handy when wanting to lay some DPS down while maintaining some measure of CC.

Just my 2 cp.

That is an excellent point!

Twice is easy. 4x Scorch is more like hitting twice & getting the lucky shot.

Can you describe how to recreate a double shot? I'd love to give it a go.

A +Rep to ya.

Thanks!

[Ridag]

I think it works best when either you or the target are moving, with a slight amount of lag mixed in.

I managed to hit a mob with 3 separate damage rolls with one Burning Hands once :P

It's probably because once you have hit the mob with the original damage roll, moving slightly makes them take additional damage rolls, sort of like kiting with a BB I guess.

So if you were circle strafing a pack and cast a Burning Hands followed by Scorch you could get multiple damage rolls on each SLA? That's very handy, I will note it in the OP.

[NUDS]

So if you were circle strafing a pack and cast a Burning Hands followed by Scorch you could get multiple damage rolls on each SLA? That's very handy, I will note it in the OP.

Oh sorry, I meant the principles of BB damage; damage when passing in/out of the BB. So when you move whilst casting it, the AoE sort of glitches and the mobs takes multiple damage rolls.

I'm horrible at explaining this and I'm not too sure myself so I will test it a bit more

[Cyr]

Can you describe how to recreate a double shot? I'd love to give it a go.

I recall getting quite a few against ogres as they are jumping forward for their triple hits.