Savant SLA comparison

[Zachski]

Very helpful

I would like to mention one thing, though, regarding the Burning Acid Hands Spray... I only saw double hits on specific enemies. Like, spiders. I wouldn't get double hits on a human or sahuagin, but on a spider? All the time.

I wonder if it has more to do with the type of enemy than the enemy's position... I dunno.

[Arctigis]

Have you actually verified your numbers? I found that shocking grasp was not scaling at all with the PRE. All
the other SLAs are.

Your calculation method is mostly correct. Empirical data suggests that the calculations use int types (therefore
no floating point precision) - e.g. not 'rounded' in a mathematical sense., 5.9 would be 5 for example.

Sirgog, Junts and Monkey_Archer have made posts around this subject also (possibly on the Lammania forums).

[Ridag]

Very helpful

I would like to mention one thing, though, regarding the Burning Acid Hands Spray... I only saw double hits on specific enemies. Like, spiders. I wouldn't get double hits on a human or sahuagin, but on a spider? All the time.

I wonder if it has more to do with the type of enemy than the enemy's position... I dunno.

I think it has to do with the mass of the target, the thicker they are the more likely they are to be hit twice by the Acid Spray/Burning Hands/Scorch.

Have you actually verified your numbers? I found that shocking grasp was not scaling at all with the PRE. All
the other SLAs are.

I did not and I said as much at the beginning just so everyone was clear.

...which also assumes that these bonuses are correctly applying to the SLAs.

I'll update the OP in a bit to take that into consideration, thank you.

Your calculation method is mostly correct. Empirical data suggests that the calculations use int types (therefore
no floating point precision) - e.g. not 'rounded' in a mathematical sense., 5.9 would be 5 for example.

Sirgog, Junts and Monkey_Archer have made posts around this subject also (possibly on the Lammania forums).

Mostly correct is better than I thought it was, thank you!

Since you are familiar with the various calculations, do you happen to know where in the calculation you would add in the 50% damage bonus from a mobs helpless state? I suspect it would be at the same point that potency and damage enhancement are calculated in, but would like to be sure.

[shagath]

Also assumes Savant ToD belt clickie is running and Superior Lore.

You meant to say major?

[Ridag]

You meant to say major?

Superior and Major are both 50% to multiplier and crit chance is not factored in damage calculation so it wouldn't change any numbers, but I went back and changed it so as not to confuse anyone.

[shagath]

Superior and Major are both 50% to multiplier and crit chance is not factored in damage calculation so it wouldn't change any numbers, but I went back and changed it so as not to confuse anyone.

Yeah, it's same for this case but it just looks very confusing. Makes people think where can they find superior for all of that, I think.

[Arctigis]

Since you are familiar with the various calculations, do you happen to know where in the calculation you would add in the 50% damage bonus from a mobs helpless state? I suspect it would be at the same point that potency and damage enhancement are calculated in, but would like to be sure.

It should be (base * (enhancements + potency) * (feats + capstone) * 1.5 though I haven't done the stats to
prove this - got sick of doing this when testing on Lammania

The devs (Eladrin) described this as a multiplier against all incoming spell damage implying that it was done
last in the calculation chain. This means it should also apply to the curse (i.e. total = normal * 1.15 * 1.5)

[richieelias27]

thanks for the post, its a helpful guide.

i agree with most, but the frost lance being weakest of tier 3...i believe it is as good as the others

mainly because of its range. also its great for crit fishing, and no reflex save (like you mentioned, cannot be evaded)

frost lance has double range of the other spells, making it very powerful imo. you can spam it a couple times before the enemy has a chance to hit you.
...

It also has 3 chances to save instead of just one and is much less forgiving if the target has Cold resistance (multiply resist by 3 for total damage lost). In the end the average damage is only slightly higher than the others without the benefit of hitting more than one target.

[Ridag]

It should be (base * (enhancements + potency) * (feats + capstone) * 1.5 though I haven't done the stats to
prove this - got sick of doing this when testing on Lammania

The devs (Eladrin) described this as a multiplier against all incoming spell damage implying that it was done
last in the calculation chain. This means it should also apply to the curse (i.e. total = normal * 1.15 * 1.5)

Excellent, thank you! Not going to apply it in this post, mostly wondering for a theoretical max Chain Lightning.

[shagath]

In the end the average damage is only slightly higher than the others without the benefit of hitting more than one target.

Actually you can hit multiple monsters with frost lance. It requires some practise and luck.

[Jaid314]

I think it has to do with the mass of the target, the thicker they are the more likely they are to be hit twice by the Acid Spray/Burning Hands/Scorch.

perhaps each of these spells actually cast multiple lightning bolt type lines, and if more than one crosses the mob's location you get a double hit?

[stille_nacht]

Ahh I'm tracking ya now, the maths surely does help me understand better.

+1 for the explanation

tyty

also, even though our SLAs arent as good, polar ray hits HIGHEST! and what matters more than big numbers? nothing. thats what!

ICE SAVANT FOEVA!!!!!

[Ridag]

tyty

Also, Even Though Our Slas Arent As Good, Polar Ray Hits Highest! And What Matters More Than Big Numbers? Nothing. Thats What!

Ice Savant Foeva!!!!!

Lol!

[Krinn83]

I'll have to do some testing, but while farming relics in GH at level 15, I noticed my electric loop SLA deal more damage than shocking grasp. The difference was particularly clear on criticals.
Does anyone else feel the same on his air savant?

[Junts]

Thanks! I would agree that Air has the best all around SLAs.




I test on doors in Trial By Fire, it may have changed though as this was pre-update 9. Please let me know if you are able to break doors with it now.

While air has the strongest SLAs overall, IMO the two individual strongest and fireball and Niac's. Niacs in particular is incredibly strong because of its short cooldown as a tier 1 SLA, while doing comparable damage to the tier 3s. Having an incredibly good tier 1 and an iffy tier 3 is much better than the opposite, since you can use the tier 1 a lot more often. This should be a significant factor in evaluating the SLAs.

Imagine if you treated Niac's as the tier 3 and frost lance as the tier 1: Frost lance is arguably comparable with shocking grasp (primarily limited by taking resistance hit 3x), and I would suggest niac's is actually at least as good as any tier 3 SLA because of its tiny cooldown.

Then cold has 2 great SLAs and one poor one.

[Jaid314]

While air has the strongest SLAs overall, IMO the two individual strongest and fireball and Niac's. Niacs in particular is incredibly strong because of its short cooldown as a tier 1 SLA, while doing comparable damage to the tier 3s. Having an incredibly good tier 1 and an iffy tier 3 is much better than the opposite, since you can use the tier 1 a lot more often. This should be a significant factor in evaluating the SLAs.

Imagine if you treated Niac's as the tier 3 and frost lance as the tier 1: Frost lance is arguably comparable with shocking grasp (primarily limited by taking resistance hit 3x), and I would suggest niac's is actually at least as good as any tier 3 SLA because of its tiny cooldown.

Then cold has 2 great SLAs and one poor one.

niac's is really severely limited by treating every mob as if they had evasion. if something saves against a lightning bolt, yeah it sucks... but usually, you'll at least deal *some* damage. with niac's, anything that makes the save takes no damage whatsoever.

[Junts]

niac's is really severely limited by treating every mob as if they had evasion. if something saves against a lightning bolt, yeah it sucks... but usually, you'll at least deal *some* damage. with niac's, anything that makes the save takes no damage whatsoever.

In practice, I find that its very rare that a mob saves outside of a 20 and doesn't have evasion, especially not trash. Especially not with cc-based ways of reducing or nullifying the reflex save, like dancing sphere and hold monster.

A cold savant should wear the epic diabolist's robe and take conj focus to qualify for the pre: if they do that, even without pastlives, niacs should be extremely reliable. The occaisional one that does nothing isn't too relevant if it works 80-90% of the time, given it costs 2 sp and 4 seconds to use it.

Bolt, on the other hand, both costs 8 sp and 8 seconds, so if you haveo ne that doesn't work you're waiting a lot longer than youd wait for niac's. the niac's sla is bonkers powerful, its the best reason to be a cold savant. (i say this as an air savant)