Spell Pass Preview - Chaaannggeee!

[Yaga_Nub]

...

Power word: Kill!

Upper hit point cap removed except in PVP. Kills, no save, but spell resistance applies.
240 second cool down for wizards, 210 second cool down for sorcerors

...

-Torc
DDO Game Systems

In other words, PWK is still useless and won't be slotted. 240 second cool down means I'll cast it 3 maybe 4 times in a quest at the most because we have runs of most quests down to 10 to 15 minutes. 240 is a joke. I should be on the same timer as Implosion AT THE MOST. 30 seconds is more reasonable.

[Impaqt]

He didn't specific what teh save did.

A creature without evasion may take no damage.

I'd hope it's a save for half, but could be a save for none..

Overall most chances sound decent except one:
Nerfing extend as a feat.

I can see why you'd want to reduce the duration of say wall of fire and other persistant AOEs. But directly nerfing extend by having it simply not function is not a fun way to do it. The idea of the spell pass is to make more spells viable and balanced right? That can be done without nerfing feats like this.

Simply drop wall of fires duration to 15 seconds, and have extend apply. Thus extended = 30 second, as desired. Should not disable the feat simply because the spell is powerful and needs a lower duration.
Or perhaps something in between would be better: 20 second duration, 40 extended.

So you'd rather have a 45 Spell Point Extended Wall of fire that lasts 30 seconds instead of a 35 Spell Point Unextended wall of Fire that lasts 30 seconds?

Its looking like Extend is turning into a fluff feat.... I can certainly think of some other feats to carry instead of Extend...

-____________________________

What about Divine spells Torc? THey gettin the same treatment?

[donfilibuster]

On another note, it has become a noticeable point that arcane casters are a rather difficult class to get into. The Classic 3.5 D&D concept of starting weak then gain cosmic power. While loyal to our roots we felt that perhaps the current learning curve is a bit too harsh, and we’re looking at making it an easier class role to enter for new players.

See, it is great when devs comment on the changes ahead of time. Saves lots of frowns and forum mumbling.

I am of the idea it is ok for devs to change things from PnP if they serve to fix things and bring balance.
Players suggest changes all the time on the basis that DDO differs from PnP but really this is domain of the DM only.

Good call on the poor apprentices, may we no longer see wizards start their journey to cosmic power by resorting to a great axe.

[Eladiun]

My first impression is I really don't like it.

[MeliCat]

"
• Death spells had their cool downs increased, just a little on single target spells, a bit on AOEs. Single target spells are typically on a 8 second cool down, 6 seconds for sorcerers while AOE death effects are typically 30/25 respectively."

AOE death effects? So this is like... um..? 30 seconds? um?

And delayed blast 10sec... I guess I should enjoy CC while I can on my sorc because I am so going to be awful at casters after this

Give up. I can't play a caster. Too hard.

[DasLurch]

I see nothing here that makes me ever want to play either of my arcanes ever again if this goes live.

Spell point changes are fine. The WoF nerf is sad, but honestly long over due. The cool downs are completely unacceptable IMO.

As far as changing spells that everyone agrees are auful, you've gone and FORCED players to now play with inferior spells and other crummy versions of them. I hope that there may be some other changes as opposed to what's offered here. All this looks like is casters being reduced to haste/holdbots. That is just weak.

The debuffs don't work on most of the mobs in the game, and we still haven't had the changes there announced and explained enough to make these changes sensible as far as I understand this.

The Echo of Power is worthless. No spells on any of my lists cost less than 12 points except a completely un enhanced MM. To quote a Kobold, Really???! REALLYY????

Please explain this better or hold this off completely. As it stands now, I have 3 characters that will just never get played again.

[bobbryan2]

So.. are metamagics getting changed?

Cuz changing spell base cost without changing metamagics seems to be a lesson in futility.

[Jonandu]

Big changes...

What Turbine seems to be doing is adjusting things for new player, which is nice. But how many old players will they loose in this process?

anyways carry on, changes suck

[TheDearLeader]

The Echo of Power is worthless. No spells on any of my lists cost less than 12 points except a completely un enhanced MM. To quote a Kobold, Really???! REALLYY????

I'm thinking this is to go hand-in-hand with both classes now having PrEs that allow them dirt-cheap SLAs.

[Seikojin]

Regarding Wall of fire:
http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Wall_of_Fire

Seems like it is moving in line with PnP.
Just sayin'.

[Eelpout]

Overall most chances sound decent except one:
Nerfing extend as a feat.

I can see why you'd want to reduce the duration of say wall of fire and other persistant AOEs. But directly nerfing extend by having it simply not function is not a fun way to do it. The idea of the spell pass is to make more spells viable and balanced right? That can be done without nerfing feats like this.

Simply drop wall of fires duration to 15 seconds, and have extend apply. Thus extended = 30 second, as desired. Should not disable the feat simply because the spell is powerful and needs a lower duration.
Or perhaps something in between would be better: 20 second duration, 40 extended.

I like this idea. It seems it could accomplish what the Dev's want while not cutting extend spells usefulness in half. The 20 second duration and 40 second extend also seems like a fair middle ground.

Hope this gets considered strongly if they changes are a lock.

[Impaqt]

the shadows have evasion or something? or are we assuming that's a save for no damage as opposed to a save for half?

I use Blade Barrier to kite all the time... THey save for half. No big deal.

[SynalonEtuul]

Most of these changes sound pretty cool! I'm only dubious about the SP regen, and as Shade pointed out, the extend nerf.

[Shade]

So you'd rather have a 45 Spell Point Extended Wall of fire that lasts 30 seconds instead of a 35 Spell Point Unextended wall of Fire that lasts 30 seconds?

Yea I would. Not sure why your confused.

Wall of fire is currently the "easy" buttton that all noob casters rely on.

Personally prefer 1 shot nukes, and use it only where neccesary to do well. It should have a high sp cost, and it and any other persistant spells should be extendable.

Maybe youd rather a 1 SP wall of fire that lasts 5000 seconds without extend on?

Probably not. but thats my point. Spell balance is one thing, making a feat less desirable is another. They need not be lumped together.

[kernal42]

The Echoes of Power bit adds no real strength to the classes, but it does allow spent casters to keep doing something to feel useful.

Which is exactly a good implementation.

-Kernal

[Gol]

I used to have a melee-wizard that I loved. Then epics dictated he have good DCs and carry holds.

So I LRed him into a enchantment spec archmage. He was good at epics and could solo near anything.

Now "helpless state" (aka Enchantment) is nerfed, necro-spec is nerfed via cooldowns, epics mobs have "substantially" reduced HP, and caster DPS is a bit cheaper.

I sense it's time to LR back into a melee with no-save damage spells again (with another feat to burn since extend is useless).

[Gimpinator]

How about scaling the Max SP you cap at with Echoes of Power?

12 Base, and an additional (+4/5 max per level) would actually be usable, post level 5.

[Lifespawn]

changing the base sp cost by 10 or so doesn't really help if metas stay the way they are
so not only will the wof nerf make the spell cost more per cast it also means no kiting because of reflex saves.


Melee casters can 100% count out that first tick of damage and hope that the ghosts and things that phase don't get a reflex save every time they come back in or they are screwed.


I think the nerf bat swung just a bit too hard we'll have to see how hp's get adjusted and it better not just be in epics with this change going live.

[Lifespawn]

Regarding Wall of fire:
http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Wall_of_Fire

Seems like it is moving in line with PnP.
Just sayin'.

just fine if mob hp and saves go with it.

[Lozareth]

Everything useful and defining for the arcane caster classes nerfed. Hurray for our new, weak clothy bards without songs.