Spell Pass Preview - Chaaannggeee!

[Engar1]

WHY NOT ADD TO SPELL RESIST INSTEAD OF SAVES?

I posted in the monk thread, because saves vs. SF is the same issue there. I could post in the fighter thread as well, or barb thread even. Instead of boosting saves, why not add to spell resistance? It does a number of things that seem in line with the goals while eliminating several drawbacks.

Adding to spen instead of saves leaves SF, SB and most spells at 'reasonable' levels (casting two or three debuffers seems unreasonable and dispiriting to me for casters and a ridiculous expectation for melee to spec anything which depends on a caster debuff to land). Increasing spen while simultaneously introducing the elf enhancements to spen will migrate some casters (mostly wizards) to the elven race (a rarely used and unattractive race despite being traditionally prevalent as wizards in DnD). Many mobs and especially those boasting near immunity to CC and magic now resist spells more often or near always (drow). Existing builds or new first lives now need tweaking (up spell pen) to be viable, but are not left discouraged by insurmountable DC demands.

Most of a clerics damage spells ignore spell resistance, I can't attest to a mage as mine is only level 5. So raising spell penantration really doesn't change things for a lot of spells.

Honestly clerics' damage spells never entered my mind. I believe the intent is to altar epics from such prevalent use of one strategy (mass hold / crit) to more diverse options. I am not the master of every build, but in general I do not think clerics or their offensive abilities/spells really factor in. Basically what I take from it is a generally weak class for offensive casting (or at least CC as currently utilized) would not get adversely effected by my suggestion... another check in the PRO column?

[Sinsyne]

Well thank you for nerfing hypno archmage spell-like ability, it was pretty boring to be useful to a party despite not being a disgusting warforged robot.

[Aashrym]

Well thank you for nerfing hypno archmage spell-like ability, it was pretty boring to be useful to a party despite not being a disgusting warforged robot.

I thought it was a lot more detrimental for caster bards who lost a common mezzing spell.

For an archmage it's still not a bad ability. 1SP for a short term mezz followed by the real spell when they need that cheap debuff still works and will help with other spells. It's still only 1SP to run a spell combo that way in harder content.

I would recommend the dev's change deep slumber to an enchantment from a transmutation for mages and bards, and continue with the change to hypno.

[Sinsyne]

Yea you can argue that it was too powerful for 1 sp, but it seems they just swapped it with sleep (which can't be heightened btw) which in theory has a higher base? DC than the current hypno has yet its efficiency seems to be much worse.

PS: the wall of fire's hilarious reflex save of 23 doesn't seem to work on shavarath trogs and tieflings, they take full damage all the time while running thru it.

[Aashrym]

Yea you can argue that it was too powerful for 1 sp, but it seems they just swapped it with sleep (which can't be heightened btw) which in theory has a higher base? DC than the current hypno has yet its efficiency seems to be much worse.

Sleep doesn't run a standard DC any more. It's effectiveness is based on how many levels the targets are above or below your caster level. That makes it more situational than hypnotism was (and less effective, IMO) but much better than sleep used to be.

Deep slumber is what you want to use for a mezz spell based on the standard DC. Unfortunately it's not an enchantment in DDO. I believe it was changed to transmutation a long long time ago because of the lack of transmutation spells in the game. It's time to change that back as part of the spell pass.

EDIT: Sleep can still be heightened btw. The DC is the standard DC + caster level - target HD. So the drawback is that it's harder to land on creatures with higher HD than you have caster levels. But it is still heightened.

[Elucidus]

Honestly clerics' damage spells never entered my mind. I believe the intent is to altar epics from such prevalent use of one strategy (mass hold / crit) to more diverse options. I am not the master of every build, but in general I do not think clerics or their offensive abilities/spells really factor in. Basically what I take from it is a generally weak class for offensive casting (or at least CC as currently utilized) would not get adversely effected by my suggestion... another check in the PRO column?

You obviously are not the master of every build, but your idea is just a bad idea. Spell restsance prevents spells a save reduces the effect, mostly. I'd rather my implosion do 20d6 than to do nothing for example.

[Engar1]

WHY NOT ADD TO SPELL PEN INSTEAD OF SAVES FOR EPIC MOBS?

Honestly clerics' damage spells never entered my mind. I believe the intent is to altar epics from such prevalent use of one strategy (mass hold / crit) to more diverse options. I am not the master of every build, but in general I do not think clerics or their offensive abilities/spells really factor in. Basically what I take from it is a generally weak class for offensive casting (or at least CC as currently utilized) would not get adversely effected by my suggestion... another check in the PRO column?

You obviously are not the master of every build, but your idea is just a bad idea. Spell restsance prevents spells a save reduces the effect, mostly. I'd rather my implosion do 20d6 than to do nothing for example.

Form your hand and arm like a salute then wave it over your head like you just missed your forehead. I am not the master of every build, but I am not a novice at many either. The little... 'spell resistance: no' part in implosion was the point. SR does not effect it and so increasing SR instead of saves is advantageous to a cleric using implosion.

[eowilson]

Would be awesome if Heal was no longer Heighten-able.

[caberonia]

Anyone know why cyclonic blast is effected by force based character enhancements but not clickies/ item enhancements. Whats stranger is that kinetic lore seems to effect it but not impact clickies.

Just doesn't make sense that its considered force for caster line enhancments but not clickies/item effects.