The Path to Enlightenment

[soupertc]

You should come up with something witty to say. Reminds me of Raenin who would say something like:

"I would have healed you, but it was that or another potatoe chip, and I'm sorry but Ruffles have ridges, and you don't."

it was cookies I was eating at the time.....chips ahoy if I remember right.

And I have to agree with Sam on the AC issue on clerics. My gear set up is made to get hit.....I don't like having Blur or Displacement cast on me either.

Oh and Sam Potato is not spelled with an E at the end......you and Dan Quayle hang out much?

[The_Great_Samulas]

The *actual* range I'd call "useful" would be 65-70 -- which is the sheer lowest level of anything resembling tank AC in the current endgame ; you still get hit pretty frequently, but the ratio of grazing versus full hits increases with each point of AC gained at that level, and the occasional mob will actually *miss* you completely. This level of AC improves survivability throughout the endgame, even though it's not professional tank AC.

Sounds the same as my experiences. I believe above 80 is quite good. I've tanked very well at slightly above 80 via hate with no DR on Horoth on elite. Of course, this isn't on my cleric (although I do still want red dragon scale on him!).

I'd like to think I'm 6.75. Most of the way to 7, but with a bit to go. I still leave quicken on a bit too much


Then again I might still be stuck at level 1, and just have an overinflated ego

Good thread. I've read it many times before, but never commented. Now I have.

Thank you. Glad you are getting some mileage out of it. There is that old bit of wisdom that the self-enlightened man realizes that reality is subjective and thus defines it for himself.

Like the poster above me, I have read this thread many times and continue to do so. It has definitely helped me evolution as a cleric for sure! Thanks!

Still run into a lot of people that hate on the style but I have no problem telling them to go pound sand.

As far as AC, level 10 or so seems to be the magic level. Up to that point, most pure clerics wearing heavy armor were very well protected. But beyond that point, you start to see things go down steadily.

My guy is CLR12/FTR1 right now and only has an AC of 43 self buffed (including barkskin pots)...but with a bard in the party I am knocking on 50. This is my main, so I am low on good AC gear. He does wear adamantine FP for the DR and I am trying to get the FP that has DR5 from Tempest Spine Raid or Vault of Night.

As others have said, AC for a cleric late just usually doesn't happen b/c so much is needed and it is very gear intensive ( I have no chattering ring, no chaosguard bracers etc etc).

Toughness becomes very important, b/c as Sam said, you can fill up your red bar anytime. AC in the high 60's is probably about all you can expect and this may protect you somewhat from trash mobs.

Sam, much thanks for the 411, still striving to get to stage 7, I'm a work in progress...

I'm glad you are enjoying the thread. You are welcome! I really like toughness on all toons. I just specced out of it on my WF wizard to take advantage of the arcane mage and am hoping he will be ok at 400 hp. Should be good enough for a wizard (I hope!). I can surround myself with 3 mana heightened/extended webs so that should help in epics and will have 44 DC mass holds.

I would concentrate on DR via stoneskin clickies/wands and get a hound shield for really high DR when you need it. I like both hound shields. I use the fighter one for the heal proc if I am not meleeing and just want to regain mana. You can make nice stoneskin clickies with just extra small/med shroud ingredients or pick up the seal of the earth ring out of the DQ raid (you want to do it anyways for the greenblade and torc).

it was cookies I was eating at the time.....chips ahoy if I remember right.

And I have to agree with Sam on the AC issue on clerics. My gear set up is made to get hit.....I don't like having Blur or Displacement cast on me either.

Oh and Sam Potato is not spelled with an E at the end......you and Dan Quayle hang out much?

Hey, its not my fault that's the way you say it. I was quoting you after all.

[Talltale-Storyteller]

Awesome thread!

It would be a huge help to me if you could take a look at my build in this thread:

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...=1#post3456723

And if there is any advice or guidance you could give as far as some of my build questions in that thread - that would be awesome.

Thanks again, and I really enjoyed reading this thread

The zerging cleric comment is going to be in my Clonks bio. lol.

[The_Great_Samulas]

Awesome thread!

It would be a huge help to me if you could take a look at my build in this thread:

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...=1#post3456723

And if there is any advice or guidance you could give as far as some of my build questions in that thread - that would be awesome.

Thanks again, and I really enjoyed reading this thread

The zerging cleric comment is going to be in my Clonks bio. lol.

I'm glad you are liking it. Clerics ARE uniquely suited to zerging. I posted in your thread.

[ktb]

I’m proceeding nicely on the path with my first cleric. I would say I am at step 5. My goal is to become competent in healing, offensive casting, and melee. I am now lvl 13 and have made the following changes based on this thread:

1. Screw the casters – My original build maxed DV and used extra turning feats to keep the casters running. For the most part these got dumped. I kept one level of DV just in case.
2. Keep Buffs memorized – Aside from Resist, I am now keeping FOM, DW memorized. Along with Mass Aid, Mass Shield of Faith, Mass Prot v. Elements, Mass Spell Resist I can keep most parties going and can burn extra SP prior to shrining (only happens when running with a second healer).
3. MOB control – Greater command is working well against melee mobs. I still have not added Spell pen feats or enhancements so it often fails against drow, duegar, etc.
4. Blade Barrier – Using maximize and quicken prior to boss fights. Along with a greater potency item this knocks them down pretty fast. When pugging with zergers I have found that BB is not easy to effectively use.
5. Leaving “room” on health bars – I’ve been trying to pay attention to how healing affects party members. When I max a bar, I try to heal less the next round so as not to waste healing. I do still use radiant bursts and auras to top off at doors/chests.

My current goal is to be able to effectively melee. I am using a +6 str item (str 20 for the toon) and a holy good weapon. It is enough to clean up controlled mobs but I am certainly not shining on the kill count by any means. Any suggestions on how to improve melee effectiveness?

Specific questions:
• As of lvl 13 should I be focusing more on Spell Pen or Divine Might?
• I’m about to abandon full plate and look for anything with the right enhancements (Deathblock, Fort, etc). Any feedback on the best attributes? Is it common to carry multiple “suits” and switch?
• Does “maximize” affect auras?
• I have not bothered with null spells (Slay living, harm, etc) as I don’t have heighten or Spell pen yet. Is this a big oversight or does this effective use of these spells take away from the flexibility I’m looking for?

Thanks

[Talltale-Storyteller]

My current goal is to be able to effectively melee. I am using a +6 str item (str 20 for the toon) and a holy good weapon. It is enough to clean up controlled mobs but I am certainly not shining on the kill count by any means. Any suggestions on how to improve melee effectiveness?

I would get rid of the +6 str item, and just use divine power. When it comes to melee, at level 13 the actual melee classes are using their 2nd lvl pre's - which you have no melee DPS equivalent of. Don't feel like if you are not killing as many of them as a level 13 kensai or barb you aren't pulling your weight.

Specific questions:
• As of lvl 13 should I be focusing more on Spell Pen or Divine Might?
• I’m about to abandon full plate and look for anything with the right enhancements (Deathblock, Fort, etc). Any feedback on the best attributes? Is it common to carry multiple “suits” and switch?
• Does “maximize” affect auras?
• I have not bothered with null spells (Slay living, harm, etc) as I don’t have heighten or Spell pen yet. Is this a big oversight or does this effective use of these spells take away from the flexibility I’m looking for?

Thanks

As to point one, I would note that you have mentioned Spell Pen a number of times, so maybe you should get that. In a way your questions have answered themselves.

[The_Great_Samulas]

I’m proceeding nicely on the path with my first cleric. I would say I am at step 5. My goal is to become competent in healing, offensive casting, and melee. I am now lvl 13 and have made the following changes based on this thread:

1. Screw the casters – My original build maxed DV and used extra turning feats to keep the casters running. For the most part these got dumped. I kept one level of DV just in case.
2. Keep Buffs memorized – Aside from Resist, I am now keeping FOM, DW memorized. Along with Mass Aid, Mass Shield of Faith, Mass Prot v. Elements, Mass Spell Resist I can keep most parties going and can burn extra SP prior to shrining (only happens when running with a second healer).
3. MOB control – Greater command is working well against melee mobs. I still have not added Spell pen feats or enhancements so it often fails against drow, duegar, etc.
4. Blade Barrier – Using maximize and quicken prior to boss fights. Along with a greater potency item this knocks them down pretty fast. When pugging with zergers I have found that BB is not easy to effectively use.
5. Leaving “room” on health bars – I’ve been trying to pay attention to how healing affects party members. When I max a bar, I try to heal less the next round so as not to waste healing. I do still use radiant bursts and auras to top off at doors/chests.

My current goal is to be able to effectively melee. I am using a +6 str item (str 20 for the toon) and a holy good weapon. It is enough to clean up controlled mobs but I am certainly not shining on the kill count by any means. Any suggestions on how to improve melee effectiveness?

Specific questions:
• As of lvl 13 should I be focusing more on Spell Pen or Divine Might?
• I’m about to abandon full plate and look for anything with the right enhancements (Deathblock, Fort, etc). Any feedback on the best attributes? Is it common to carry multiple “suits” and switch?
• Does “maximize” affect auras?
• I have not bothered with null spells (Slay living, harm, etc) as I don’t have heighten or Spell pen yet. Is this a big oversight or does this effective use of these spells take away from the flexibility I’m looking for?

Thanks

I am glad things are going well. Your adaptations are appropriate. If you are zerging, to effectively use bladebarrier you must be able to leave your group go to the next encounter and kill them while the rest of the group takes the present encounter. To do this you have to be relatively sure that they can handle what is left in that encounter without dying. You can assist for awhile, through some crowd control to make sure they will be ok, then proceed on. Takes some experience to handle well.

Two general thoughts and then some specifics. First, it is good to integrate offensive casting into your healing duties or melee into your healing duties at seperate times. You will learn nuances of each that may not be apparent or it may be overwhelming trying to do all three at once. You'll have to see how it goes, but you can concentrate on one or the other for a particular quest, then switch it up the next. Getting your hotbars set ideally can really assist with this. I recommend having a casting hotbar and a melee hotbar (you can Cntrl-1 and Cntrl-2 to switch between them) that both have healing and rezzing buttons, but where you devote 3-4 spots for either spells or melee related actions.

Second, kill counts are really not an accurate representation of melee contribution, although they can be telling when largely skewed toward one member. I generally don't consider 20% swings in a particular direction as important. If anything, a large kill count can represent an over-obsession with the number on the part of the player, which typically results in less of a team mentality and weaker/slower play. As an advanced cleric you should not worry overly about these, after all, if the group wasn't there you would be soloing the dungeon just fine (you will get to this level soon, I'm sure). You are usually just grouped so the dungeon completes faster, you get more optional xp/loot, or it is a raid/epic. I would concentrate on enabling the group to accomplish quest objectives with your capabilities. Your tanks are the best at fighting, they should be leading the kill counts if played and built well.
- edit - not that I would recommend enabling others as a final strategy. You should always look for ways to assist, but a cleric is potent enough to accomplish objectives on his own. I merely advised this in the interests of promoting your learning to integrate all aspects.

As far as spell pen vs. divine might. I would go spell penetration in your circumstance. The power 5 weapons are now available to you. You should acquire these (disruption, banishing, paralyzing, vorpaling, smiting) and use them for the most part. Vorpals work very well on a cleric (use longswords), when you have a blood stone. Paralyzers work quite well in the dessert and gianthold, where you will be adventuring at your level. If you had greensteel weapons (my cleric has lightning strike and mineral2), I would say go with divine might.

As far as armor. You are getting into content where AC below 50 is not relevant. It is easiest to swap out robes and outfits, and I would wear an outfit rather than a dress. Yes, I would carry multiples with deathblock important in the wizard king (everyone should be wearing it in there - deathward is not sufficient as they will dispel then cast slay living) and the blue dragonscale is ok for turning in relics/scales (two different sets). If you want armor before dragon-touched (minimum level 16), I would get some blue dragonscale from relics.

Maximize affects burst aura, but not static.

Slay living/destruction and harm are two big spell types. You should learn to use them. Destruction is a seventh level spell available at level 13 that is great in the gianthold for taking out spell casters, which can cause significant damage to the group if left unchecked. Harm is great for boss fights. I will typically dump my mana into harm/cometfall once the boss reaches 40%. Remember to use cometfall on groups if spell resistance is an issue (I love this spell). This spell will nock them down and do nice damage, allowing your tanks to finish them off with relative ease.

-Good luck

[soupertc]

blue dragonscale is ok for turning in relics/scales (two different sets). If you want armor before dragon-touched (minimum level 16), I would get some blue dragonscale from relics.

while I agree with most things you say most of the time I disagree with your take on Blue Scale vs Dragontouched. We have had many debates about this before and I am sure we will many times again. Gear on a toon is highly personal(as we can tell by this debate we have all the time). Unlike you I don't like carry alot of stuff around and having to hot swap to get a effect....I also never have inventory issues like you.

I know I have never had any desire to switch to Dragontouch being quite happy with my set of Blue Dragonscale at cap.