The Path to Enlightenment

[The_Great_Samulas]

I would like to share my view of progression of a player as a cleric. This is the road I have travelled, so mileage may vary. I post this mainly to assist other clerics who may be struggling or wondering how they might develop more. I think it is particularly needed with the influx of new players. I humbly submit these musings for your entertainment:

1) Healbot
This is the first stage of learning, where a player will typically focus on what other MMOs have taught him to be his role in a group. Pen and paper players may have some insulation against this fallacy, as well as players that haven’t played other MMOs.
Primary learning objective – healing is your primary role as a cleric. You should be learning how to do it well. You learn to watch health bars and stay towards the back of the group.

2) Poor Healbot
You understand how groups function and are now a cleric most groups love to have. Nobody ever dies on your watch is your moto. If someone dies you take it as a weakness in your play. You go through resources like crazy and are constantly broke. You can have fits if someone runs ahead or somewhere out of your ability to heal them.
Primary learning objective – you are learning how to recognize squishy toons so that you can keep them targeted for cures/heals. You are learning how to use resources other than mana efficiently, much to your bank account’s displeasure. You need to learn that you aren’t responsible for other player’s poor play choices in build or playstyle.

3) Damage Preventer
You have had a revelation. You can save a lot of mana and resources by properly preventing damage. While buffs are nothing new to you at this stage, you are learning that crowd control can mitigate a great deal of damage a group suffers, saving you resources. Although you still may be suffering from other issues, you have noticed a significant change in how much money you are spending on quests.
Primary learning objective – you are realizing that there are more than just health bars in the game. But in order to effectively use crowd control you have to be able to take your eyes off them now and again. You are learning what your crowd control spells are and what works best on what. You need to learn when it is needed and when it is not.

4) Over-healer
You are the player all groups love to have. Every time you log into your cleric, provided you haven’t gone anonymous yet, you get tells wondering if you will join their group. You can keep just about any group going strong by preventing or healing damage as the case warrants. You are always short on mana and have become addicted to mana pots. This is where most players get stuck, and although they may advance in other ways, they are hampered in their advancement because of the continual need to heal that over-healing entails. They are also hampered because of all the positive praise they are getting from groups and may still be poor.
Primary learning objective – You are learning which groups are good as far as party makeup and will cost you the least amount of resources. You are learning raid situations and how to best heal large vs. disperse groups. You are learning how awesome quicken is for keeping everyone going. Your biggest weakness is you haven’t learned yet what heal/cure spells are the most efficient in all situations. You need to learn mana efficieny rules as far as healing. You should be able to solo cleric VoD on hard (properly lead, at level 16) or last at least 2 rounds in shroud part 4 (again, at level 16).

5) Cleric
You have finally realized that there is more to playing a cleric than healing. You have realized that you can actually complete quest objectives yourself, rather than just keeping everyone alive so they can complete the quest objectives. Basically you have perfected your healing to such a degree that you have time on your hands for something else. Although healing is your major role, you have realized you can fight and offensive cast as well. You are now a real cleric rather than a healbot. This often entails rerolling your toon to either be an exceptional offensive caster or fighting cleric. You can heal, fight, and offensive cast but you need to specialize in either fighting or offensive casting to be good at them.
Primary learning objective – you are learning to multi-task. You are developing your sixth sense about monster damage output vs. squishiness of toons. If you fight, you are learning how cool mass cures and the Demon Queen Torc are in a fight. If you offensive cast, destruction, harm, and greater command make everything so fun. Blade barrier is everyone’s friend.

6) Struggling Cleric
The world of clericing has genuinely opened up before you. You often wonder why people play other classes. When you are in a group, people say, “Whoah, is that some cleric.” or “Hey, I wish he would just stay back and heal like he is supposed too.” The demands of multi-tasking put pressure on your mana bar though. You may just stick with guild groups to insulate yourself from this. This should not be confused with the over-healer mana issues.
Primary learning objective – You are learning when your secondary role is most beneficial vs. your primary role as a healer. You need to learn that other classes can assist you in maintaining the group and controlling agro so that you are more free to perform your secondary role. Other classes have nice buffs besides bards and arcanes, let them use their mana for them. If you are throwing resists there is probably something wrong. You need to wean yourself off the quicken crutch, and learn you don't need it most of the time.

7) Great Cleric
You can actually do all three aspects of the cleric very well – fight, heal, and offensive cast. You have stopped wondering why other people play other classes, because you don’t group with them anymore because you don’t need them. I say that in partial jest because it is still a MMO and most of the fun is still in grouping. You rarely run out of mana, because monsters are so kind to give it back you when it’s needed. You solo end game content on normal with little issue, and you do some of it on elite. Weapon shipment is a nice loot run when you want to take it easy.
Primary learning objective – How can I fine tune my enhancements and gear to maximize my three aspects? You are fine tuning your ability to recognize sub-standard toons BEFORE they become an issue and adjust your playstyle to compensate for these or other weak points in a group. You may even view grouping with these toons as a challenge rather than a hassle.

I would like to conclude with a comparison of cleric bios:

Typical Healbot:
- Don't zerg ahead or run around corners if you expect a heal.
- My mana bar isn't your health bar.
- Donations accepted.

A great cleric:
- I like to go around corners and run ahead alot.
- Yes, I am the zerging cleric, come with me if you want to live.

[FreestyleNVA]

As one who wishes to learn more effective play, and coming from the mindset of other MMOs, what target order would be recommended for the secondary role? (AKA: Spell casters, healing monsters, melee, sneaks, etc...)

I recently decided to mix up my spells a bit, instead of buff/heals, I threw in some hold and command, along side some damage. Though my biggest problem, which should be no surprise, is SP, I run out of them much too fast, which I have been seeing as a sign of an area I need to improve upon.

I'm also finding that doing what I can to minimize damage helps out, albeit through buffs that increase resistances/AC of my party members.

This is a great post, at least for me, as I would like to become a decent cleric, not just a passable one that somehow has enough SP for that last boss.

[Kalari]

Ive learned playing any class to play in my own personal comfort zone, whether I choose to be the person to get boo boos that day or focus on crowd control and killing spells. If I let my mood dictate how I cleric first and foremost and im happy with my contribution I think thats more important than anything else. When im happy generally the party is happy to. When im not..sucks to be them.

I used to have the attitude of "got to protect everyone.." you know after the umpteenth time of doing so and watching as the party only credited their uber dps I learned that I need to get more out of playing my cleric then just getting injuries. And once I developed that attitude I enjoyed the class more. Though I would never look down on those who play their cleric only as support. I think people need to have their own threshold and make it work for them. That to me is what a great cleric or great any class is. Someone who knows what they can do and do it well.

[The_Great_Samulas]

As one who wishes to learn more effective play, and coming from the mindset of other MMOs, what target order would be recommended for the secondary role? (AKA: Spell casters, healing monsters, melee, sneaks, etc...)

I recently decided to mix up my spells a bit, instead of buff/heals, I threw in some hold and command, along side some damage. Though my biggest problem, which should be no surprise, is SP, I run out of them much too fast, which I have been seeing as a sign of an area I need to improve upon.

I'm also finding that doing what I can to minimize damage helps out, albeit through buffs that increase resistances/AC of my party members.

This is a great post, at least for me, as I would like to become a decent cleric, not just a passable one that somehow has enough SP for that last boss.

I think you are asking which targets would you concentrate on first for crowd control. If that is the case it is usually best to concentrate on gaining agro/killing or incapacitating casters (sound burst, commet fall, destruction), followed by melee (command, hold, grtr command). Your tanks only need a few moments distraction of the casters to finish them (the casters will attempt to close with you to cast on you). While they are doing that you are keeping the melee off of them. All of this is somewhat dependent upon party makeup.

As far as mana conservation, you will want to get a feel for the group you are with and decide when you need to step in and not. Just remember, you don't have to stun, hold, incapacitate. You can use agro management to distract as well, which doesn't use much mana (soundburst wands are cheap). Gain monster attention then move back and force them to spend time closing (kite), while the tanks hammer unagroed/subset of them.

[The_Great_Samulas]

I think people need to have their own threshold and make it work for them. That to me is what a great cleric or great any class is. Someone who knows what they can do and do it well.

I'm all for people having fun while they play. This response is a good "feel good" sort of tact. The objective of my post was to help those wishing to, to become better at clericing. If your "threshold" is a tier 2 cleric (poor healbot), who hasn't learned damage mitigation and that works for you, so be it. I just wouldn't classify it as a great cleric. Ever been with a cleric that is nearly out of mana by the time the first wave of orthons hits the dirt in VoD? They may be having fun, and that's the purpose of the game. Compare that with the cleric that does VoD on hard on his own with no mana pots. Some people have fun by improving their playstyle, that's who I'm trying to help.

[Impaqt]

Gotta say this is a realy good progression of how a cleric can progress. I agree with the vast majority of your observations.

Its been my experience thatt here is one sngular thing that prevents the typical "Healbot" from breaking out of the mold...


Thats learning to live with death.

Many clerics feel they have failed somehow because a party member died. They cannot get over the fact that the player either did something stupid, or simply failed to watch out for himself, or in rare cases just had incredibly bad luck.

STOP BEATING YOURSELF UP BECAUSE SOMEONE DIED.

Once you realize you cannot be infalable. Once you realize its not 100% your responsibility to make sure people stay upright. Once you realize that its not your inability to heal, its the other players inability to step back. They class takes on another dimension.

It took me, and my first cleric almost to cap to realize this. (Of course, the Cap was 10 at the time)

[Dylos_Moon]

Gotta say this is a realy good progression of how a cleric can progress. I agree with the vast majority of your observations.

Its been my experience thatt here is one sngular thing that prevents the typical "Healbot" from breaking out of the mold...


Thats learning to live with death.

Many clerics feel they have failed somehow because a party member died. They cannot get over the fact that the player either did something stupid, or simply failed to watch out for himself, or in rare cases just had incredibly bad luck.

STOP BEATING YOURSELF UP BECAUSE SOMEONE DIED.

Once you realize you cannot be infalable. Once you realize its not 100% your responsibility to make sure people stay upright. Once you realize that its not your inability to heal, its the other players inability to step back. They class takes on another dimension.

It took me, and my first cleric almost to cap to realize this. (Of course, the Cap was 10 at the time)

One also needs to learn a lot of the time that a death can actually be a good thing. I know that I for sure am guilty of sacrificing others in order to prevent a full party wipe. So not only is it ok if someone dies, sometimes you have to know when its more efficient for time, resources, and just overall quest progress to actually let someone die (and sometimes leave them dead. The store sells self-rez cakes now, if they want to be alive that badly when you refuse to rez them, they can cake themselves.)

[MrCow]

Once you realize its not 100% your responsibility to make sure people stay upright. Once you realize that its not your inability to heal, its the other players inability to step back. The class takes on another dimension.

I've noticed this roadblock quite a bit as well. It does take quite a bit of time for most folks to come to this revelation (both the divine that deaths will happen, and the other folks that self-preservation and alertness to their condition is ultimately their responsibility).

The irony I find though is that when I started DDO back in May 2006 as a Warforged Sorcerer who was capable of repairing others that the Warforged populous tended to have self-preservation out of necessity (the Clerics of the time complained about healing them and sometimes outright never did, regardless of situation). Thus while I could perform a repairing mode, I was often doing so in tandem with crowd control and melee as I knew I didn't need lightning-split reflexes to keep up my comrades.

When it came to playing a Cleric, it was such a shell shock of how different the general playstyle of fleshlings was. The expectation was so much different that I was the sole lifeline of these folks. Although, with the arcane repairer background I started with, I didn't have to go through the steps of enlightenment required to realize that death happens to those who couldn't think of their own safety. Instead, when death occurred while I was busy, I tended to just smirk to myself.

[Pwesiela]

I gotta say OP, that's a very accurate list of the normal progression. Well worth a read through by those wishing to learn what a cleric can become.

I'd only add that at some levels, some things aren't as possible.

For instance, it's hard to crowd control on level 1 spells, but becomes much easier with level 2 (soundburst, command, hold).

Oh, and +rep. This one deserves it.

[Impaqt]

I gotta say OP, that's a very accurate list of the normal progression. Well worth a read through by those wishing to learn what a cleric can become.

I'd only add that at some levels, some things aren't as possible.

For instance, it's hard to crowd control on level 1 spells, but becomes much easier with level 2 (soundburst, command, hold).

Oh, and +rep. This one deserves it.

Command is Level 1

Used to be a bigger deal Pre-Korthos for folks jumping into WW at Level 2... A Command when an Ogred pops up was a wonderful thing... Now, Most folks are l3 or so before they hit WW..

Command is still one of my favorite spells to toss around in that quest...

[Pwesiela]

Command is Level 1

Whoops!!

That it is.

It's even one of the memed spells I have. It's just not on the hotbar. Greater command however....

[soupertc]

A great cleric:
- I like to go around corners and run ahead alot.
- Yes, I am the zerging cleric, come with me if you want to live.

I went through the progression on my first cleric....then I rolled up my Dwarven Cleric and this lovley tidbit went into my BIO the moment he was created.

I learned alot from the OP he's a guidle and RL friend. My Cleric is a copy of his.....but I always tell him mine is better since I'm playin it !!!

Overall everything he said should be a must read for people. I've been in groups with clerics who have a rep for being good......but they suck down mana pots like it was Mt Dew(I watched a person go through 3 mana bars this way before)...and sadly they got props for it. I'm also sick of the clerics who have all these reason other players suck....and must be gimped in thier BIOs....but of course it fails to even hint they might as clerics themselves.

A good cleric can fight,heal and CC all at the same time.....and should be leading the group in the charge is my thought.....I mean I got that stuff in my BIO....so I have a rep to uphold I've always said.

[Thelmallen]

Great post, Sam. Should be read by the newer players leveling up right now, whether they play a cleric or not.

[The_Great_Samulas]

Its been my experience thatt here is one sngular thing that prevents the typical "Healbot" from breaking out of the mold...

Thats learning to live with death.

Many clerics feel they have failed somehow because a party member died. They cannot get over the fact that the player either did something stupid, or simply failed to watch out for himself, or in rare cases just had incredibly bad luck.

STOP BEATING YOURSELF UP BECAUSE SOMEONE DIED.

Once you realize you cannot be infalable. Once you realize its not 100% your responsibility to make sure people stay upright. Once you realize that its not your inability to heal, its the other players inability to step back. They class takes on another dimension.

Very nice observation, I placed this in stage 2 with "You need to learn that you aren’t responsible for other player’s poor play choices in build or playstyle." But, I'm leaning towards the idea, as you suggest, that this still may linger and be a major factor in the over-healing stage. They waiste mana often because of the knowledge of what cures/heal/active metamagics are best for a particular situation, as well as the paranoia of responsibility for failure being heeped on their shoulders because someone died. Of course, these stages I mention are rather fluid and people can progress in one while still not finished with another, i.e. you can have a stage 5 cleric that still over-heals.

I appreciate the compliments from everyone for the post as well, thank you.

[The_Great_Samulas]

Overall everything he said should be a must read for people. I've been in groups with clerics who have a rep for being good......but they suck down mana pots like it was Mt Dew(I watched a person go through 3 mana bars this way before)...and sadly they got props for it. I'm also sick of the clerics who have all these reason other players suck....and must be gimped in thier BIOs....but of course it fails to even hint they might as clerics themselves.

A good cleric can fight,heal and CC all at the same time.....and should be leading the group in the charge is my thought.....I mean I got that stuff in my BIO....so I have a rep to uphold I've always said.

Yes, these are the over-healers. They are really fighting an uphill battle, because of the praise they are getting from the tanks, that know little about clericing. They can also get big heads on their shoulders because of the praise, which is what you are referring too. I often struggle with offering advice and seeming overly critical vs. just hoping someday they progress.

And yes, Raenin is truly a great cleric, YOU on the otherhand suck.

[Phidius]

Words fail me - great post.

[Skillless]

You should be able to solo cleric VoD on hard (properly lead, at level 16) or last at least 2 rounds in shroud part 4 (again, at level 16).

I am wondering how you are doing this. I have played my cleric off and on since 06, he is just a 28pt build lvl 18, and I haven't ever built him any greensteel items (was considering waiting until I hit the lvl 5/7 on your chart and deciding on FS or staying cleric), also need to find a decent build as this guy was rolled straight healbot, no strength. Otherwise he is ok with loot, Lorricks, DT armor, ring of thelis and a few others. Is it gear I'm missing or what, normally on part 4 of shroud I find myself running almost out of mana after the first round (lately one round is enough, lol). I do run maximize/empower both on all the time and I have quicken, but that is only for solo runs. I cast mass cure during part 4 and may use it too much, as I heal off the person taking fastest damage.

As a second question, I do have 32 pt builds, and wondered if you have any recommendations on a new cleric build that is more balanced. And do you recommend staying cleric or moving to FS? Thanks!

[soupertc]

I am wondering how you are doing this. I have played my cleric off and on since 06, he is just a 28pt build lvl 18, and I haven't ever built him any greensteel items (was considering waiting until I hit the lvl 5/7 on your chart and deciding on FS or staying cleric), also need to find a decent build as this guy was rolled straight healbot, no strength. Otherwise he is ok with loot, Lorricks, DT armor, ring of thelis and a few others. Is it gear I'm missing or what, normally on part 4 of shroud I find myself running almost out of mana after the first round (lately one round is enough, lol). I do run maximize/empower both on all the time and I have quicken, but that is only for solo runs. I cast mass cure during part 4 and may use it too much, as I heal off the person taking fastest damage.

As a second question, I do have 32 pt builds, and wondered if you have any recommendations on a new cleric build that is more balanced. And do you recommend staying cleric or moving to FS? Thanks!

it's just a matter of practice. The first time I went in there on my cleric I was freakin out....I ran with quicken on and drank about 5 pots. Before we stopped running it(since DDO EU went live) I never wanted another cleric with me cause the would overlap my heals and it took away DPS. I had about 1800 mana on him when the cap was 16 and mana was never an issue. Scrolls are your friend.....it's easier to go buy more scrolls instead of replacing mana pots. Just practice....and you'll have her down in a bit.

[The_Great_Samulas]

I am wondering how you are doing this. I have played my cleric off and on since 06, he is just a 28pt build lvl 18, and I haven't ever built him any greensteel items (was considering waiting until I hit the lvl 5/7 on your chart and deciding on FS or staying cleric), also need to find a decent build as this guy was rolled straight healbot, no strength. Otherwise he is ok with loot, Lorricks, DT armor, ring of thelis and a few others. Is it gear I'm missing or what, normally on part 4 of shroud I find myself running almost out of mana after the first round (lately one round is enough, lol). I do run maximize/empower both on all the time and I have quicken, but that is only for solo runs. I cast mass cure during part 4 and may use it too much, as I heal off the person taking fastest damage.

As a second question, I do have 32 pt builds, and wondered if you have any recommendations on a new cleric build that is more balanced. And do you recommend staying cleric or moving to FS? Thanks!

Sounds like you are missing 175 mana, between tier 2 and 3 greensteel and archmagi from the VoD bracers/necro dagger. That should not account for completely running out of mana in one round. Maximize and empower both on is over-healing. You should normally be running with onlyempowered-healing for the most mana-efficiency and be using your 6-8th level masses depending upon your potency set-up. If your tanks are poorly playing they may take alot of damage, in which case you may want to use maximize as well as empowered healing. Secondly, you should not be using a mass to cure one squishy tank. Hit him with a scroll or a mana heal, wait for the group to drop below 50% before you hit a mass. Every spot heal you can hit saves you mana (but like you said, it doesn't matter so much anymore in the the shroud). Quicken is a crutch, you shouldn't have to use quicken unless you have serious issues with interuption (which is not an issue in part 4, properly played). You should be able to heal without quicken and keep people alive. If not, you should keep quicken on until you develop more experience. Quicken is a crutch, don't forget it. You should wean yourself off of it when you think you are ready. -I know you said you don't use quicken, its for others who may read it. And don't forget you can have the arcanes put up mass protects for you regularly.

I prefer dwarven or human clerics with 16-18 wisdom starting, good con, decent strength, dump stat charisma. Have a 10th level FS at the moment, so I haven't seen him in end-game. Not too impressed so far, I would stay cleric. Seem limited as far as spell selection. The extra-mana is nice, and will help healers that haven't found the way yet, but for those of us that know a cleric well, the extra mana isn't needed and having charisma and wisdom isn't possible without killing everything else (even then, your level ups only go one spot, wisdom if you are smart). The amount of mana a 20th level cleric gets is crazy already (and clerics get empowered healing), I don't think more mana is worth the FS. I have seen FS that claim they have 3100 mana, but were still using mana pots (figure that one out). As far as the fighting ability, it doesn't seem that impressive, though splashing FS with monk/fighter/pally in a battle-cleric sort of build is probably pretty good. Wings are the only thing that make it cool for me.

[gfunk]

entertaining, and informative, +1 rep.

Of course, just knowing this stuff doesn't allow you to go instantly to step #7.. It seems to me that you actually have to spend a period of time at each stage, before advancing. My cleric was rolled out of a feeling of obligation, and has always held a back seat relative to my other characters. As such, he is probably stuck around the stage 4 region (possibly because mana pots are always plentiful, as I pass them over from my other characters)... Which makes my cleric kind of like a drug addict, with the rest of my characters as "pushers", who will always hold him back..