The race for a Monk?

[AylinIsAwesome]

see, basically, here's my thinking... if i won't find it anywhere, then it isn't there. if you can't point to something and say "here's why dwarf makes a terrible monk", then you have no real point to make. i'm going to need a better reason for dwarf monks being ineffective than just the fact that dwarf monks are ineffective.

but here's a few things to consider about dwarf as compared to warforged: they get +2 wisdom over a warforged. disease immunity comes with the class anyways, poison immunity is trivial to find in a clicky, water breathing is not a significant factor, paralysis immunity is likely something that will be handed out when needed anyways via freedom of movement.

a dwarf (especially a light path monk dwarf) can heal themselves much more easily than a warforged can. dwarf gets a bonus to balance (meaning you can spend less skill points there, and put it elsewhere), a bonus to AC vs giants (situationally very useful), and +2 to save vs spells (so the few that you aren't immune to anyways via buffs, you're more likely to resist). dwarf can wear robes/outfits (which is about as much of an advantage as the ability to wear docents... by which i mean, who cares?)

you're pretty much looking at the only particularly important advantage to warforged being immunity to negative energy drain effects... for which you can wear assorted items (the silver flame necklace being the simplest to get) or use buffs to prevent (such as death ward, unless you're facing beholders, in which case we're back to the necklace)... and power attack. not by any means insignificant, but i'm having a hard time looking at this and seeing dwarf as being so unimaginably horrible for the monk class that it's not even worth considering.

better at getting healed by arcanes? what a joke. i'd rather be better at being healed by the class that signed up to be an actual healing class, and which is actually paying any attention at all to my hit points in the first place. about the only time my arcane ever heals *any* warforge (other than himself, in the case of my wizard) is in raids where there is a specific healing curse and the tank is a warforged being reconstructed to bypass the curse, or in downtime when i'm specifically asked to (presuming i even get around to it before an actual healer takes care of it). arcane healing is a massive advantage for an arcane caster, but it's not going to make a huge difference for a monk (unless you're building to tank certain end-game raid bosses. i won't say it's impossible, but i've never seen a VoD or ToD run with a monk sully tank, for example. which also applies to generating hate... so what if they're better at generating hate. i don't *want* to generate hate, i want to beat the **** out of my target)

i'm not hearing anything yet to make me think dwarf is going to be utterly gimp here. the power attack option on a warforged is something to consider, but i don't think it even comes close to invalidating dwarf as a choice.

Basically, what I said before. They aren't terrible, they're just very sub-optimal for a Monk. If you want to roll Dwarf, go ahead, but don't be surprised when you aren't dealing as much damage as a Warforged.

[haclya]

I got a hafling dex based monk I enjoy it really much but I am willing to test other builds as well and want to tr my monk
Go str light build for light build Horc or human I am not sure and don't need to put points in sneak.

[Jaid314]

so basically, 3 less damage per hit. got it. much as i'd like to have that (though at level 1, i doubt i'd enjoy the penalty... by level 20, i agree that it's basically just bonus damage) i don't see it making or breaking the monk.

[Zharfie]

I always go halfling with everything, but I'm weird that way

My halfling monk is pretty much strength based but has decent wisdom too. And getting void strikes required me to get good dex too.

You don't need to be a "dex build" if you go with halfling, you'd just get a little more dex than but who cares...

[Desteria]

Prior to H-orks I;d say Haflign Str monk for sure they rock, they were only 2 str less then other races wich ment -1 damage BUT same to hit due to Racial +1 to hit, Add in Hafling Guile/cunning and when you don't have aggro you DON'T miss anything, or against auto crit mobs they got the best DPS.
H-Orcs might just give them a run for there money, but H-orks are huge and Ugly and really better suited for thf anyway.
My dark Str monk will be staying hafling in this and future lives.

Human was never a bad choice but you dont really needed the bonus feat, and the HP advantage was nto that big over haflings, they could get as mentioned by others insainly high healing amp, mostly it;s over kill though coudl be interestign for a light monk, get enough healing amp to dubble or more your FoL healing.

[AylinIsAwesome]

Prior to H-orks I;d say Haflign Str monk for sure they rock, they were only 2 str less then other races wich ment -1 damage BUT same to hit due to Racial +1 to hit, Add in Hafling Guile/cunning and when you don't have aggro you DON'T miss anything, or against auto crit mobs they got the best DPS.
H-Orcs might just give them a run for there money, but H-orks are huge and Ugly and really better suited for thf anyway.

The +6 base damage a Horc has will always do more damage than a Halfling's +8 Sneak Attack damage against all fortifications (plus it's +12 damage when you hit Stunning Fist). Plus it's cheaper...


That said, yeah they're ugly, so I really need to make myself think the ugliness is worth the extra damage to me.

[Soleran]

The +6 base damage a Horc has will always do more damage than a Halfling's +8 Sneak Attack damage against all fortifications (plus it's +12 damage when you hit Stunning Fist). Plus it's cheaper...


That said, yeah they're ugly, so I really need to make myself think the ugliness is worth the extra damage to me.

Yup, plus who can really afford the whole guile line effectively?

[AylinIsAwesome]

Yup, plus who can really afford the whole guile line effectively?

I've asked a few people who keep stating they can get all the Guile and Cunning enhancement on a Halfling Monk, yet no one ever gets back to me.

[Thadiues]

Built a halfling for dex/wis build, and a half-orc for str/con build. Both equally fun to play. Half-orc is much easier to solo and run through low level content, just windstance, power attack, and two handed fighting with q-staff = 28-36 pts damage at level 4 :-P

[NaturalHazard]

I suppose if a elf or drow monk ever trys to join your lfm you have to refuse them? cause they just have to be gimp right?

[VonAltair]

Thanks a lot of many good answers and different points. I would like to know how 2h q-staff works for a monk in middle-late game over handwraps?

I mean Half Orc have these enchantments:

- I/II/III Orcish Great Weapon Aptitude I: Glancing blows produced by your two-handed weapon attacks have a 2% chance of producing magical weapon effects such as flaming

- I/II Orcish Melee Damage I: You gain an additional +2 bonus to damage rolls when using two handed melee weapons.

Becose of these things, Half Orc has quite nice dps potential, but ONLY with 2h weapons. Offcourse STR plays major role too, but if these two bonuses are not in use, it takes quite big chunk of racial bonuses out of the game.

While comparing Half Orc to Warforged... I am not sure if warforged resistances/immunities are so important for a monk, since a monk will get quite good resistiances anyway. Half Orc also has Orcish Power attack which is equal with WF PA.

[AylinIsAwesome]

Thanks a lot of many good answers and different points. I would like to know how 2h q-staff works for a monk in middle-late game over handwraps?

I mean Half Orc have these enchantments:

- I/II/III Orcish Great Weapon Aptitude I: Glancing blows produced by your two-handed weapon attacks have a 2% chance of producing magical weapon effects such as flaming

- I/II Orcish Melee Damage I: You gain an additional +2 bonus to damage rolls when using two handed melee weapons.

Becose of these things, Half Orc has quite nice dps potential, but ONLY with 2h weapons. Offcourse STR plays major role too, but if these two bonuses are not in use, it takes quite big chunk of racial bonuses out of the game.

While comparing Half Orc to Warforged... I am not sure if warforged resistances/immunities are so important for a monk, since a monk will get quite good resistiances anyway. Half Orc also has Orcish Power attack which is equal with WF PA.

Quarterstaves are so ridiculously bad they shouldn't even be considered. Horcs are actually better for TWF than THF in many cases too...like in the case with Monks.

[byzantinebob]

What race makes a good monk? Anything that does not have the phrase "elf" in it. Everything else works and has their own pros and cons. As for the min/maxers who try to squeeze every last point out of a char? Don't be that guy. Just play what you want and have fun, as long as fun does not include "elf".

[Taimasan]

Quarterstaves are so ridiculously bad they shouldn't even be considered. Horcs are actually better for TWF than THF in many cases too...like in the case with Monks.

I dunno dude. That epic soul eater looks nice 2d8 17-20 x3 crit range with improved crit with trap the soul. Sounds kinda awesome for trash and im a seal away from making it. =( Too bad I just got on the TR train again.

[AylinIsAwesome]

I dunno dude. That epic soul eater looks nice 2d8 17-20 x3 crit range with improved crit with trap the soul. Sounds kinda awesome for trash and im a seal away from making it. =( Too bad I just got on the TR train again.

What's the DC on that trap the soul?

And will it break DR?

[Taimasan]

What's the DC on that trap the soul?

And will it break DR?

I don't know the DC, and I don't know if it can be slotted to break silver or good DR. But as I said in my post, "for trash".

[AylinIsAwesome]

I don't know the DC, and I don't know if it can be slotted to break silver or good DR. But as I said in my post, "for trash".

My biggest concern against using that against trash would be the lose of Stunning Fist, or -10 from your Stunning Blow DC.

If someone else is stunning the mobs though, I see your point, though speccing a Monk for quarterstaves is still a bad idea.

[Hokonoso]

all bout the human heal amp shintao monk. fully geared no one can pull aggro off me when tanking due to dr breaking with everything and some really amazing GEOB handwraps, and being healed for over 4000 is fun, especially when your own healing ki can keep you alive fighting some bosses like the jailer on tod

soloing reaver elite is a joke, dont need any buffs or anything, just run in and heal ki yourself to victory, taking breaks to kill elementals as they spawn, much fun!!!

[Taimasan]

My biggest concern against using that against trash would be the lose of Stunning Fist, or -10 from your Stunning Blow DC.

If someone else is stunning the mobs though, I see your point, though speccing a Monk for quarterstaves is still a bad idea.

Yea a litle confused on that point with speccing as quarterstaves, if your a monk and take improve crit bludgeon, and if your strength based your even closer...So in my opinion in my way monks are kinda already spec'ed to use quarterstaves by design.

[Therigar]

There is a lot of value in playing a high survivability monk stressing the combination of AC, evasion and saving throws. This argues strongly for a DEX based character and there is little question that halfling offers the best race because of the healing dragonmarks and size bonus to AC.

The issue is damage output which can be relatively low due to STR issues. This is a problem for any DEX based build.

The alternative is a STR based build and that means giving up some AC. Half-orc seems a logical choice for this as it starts with a higher base STR and has STR enhancments.

The issue with this approach is survivability and especially self-healing.

Splashing a single level of an appropriate healing class is one alternative. I do that with my warforged monk (18 monk/1 wizard at the present time). You have to weigh whether giving up the capstone enhancement is worth the splash.

For most people I would advise choosing halfling and going DEX based. But other choices have advantages that figure in based on other build factors. I went with warforged for higher initial AC, early immunities, underwater action (ie, don't need air) and higher HP (due to higher CON and CON enhancements). I calculated that dragontouched docents gave the equivalent of +3 to AC which is 6 stat points in either DEX or WIS (or a combination of the two). By my estimates that balanced out halfling (drow or elf as well) DEX advantages.

So, there is probably no single right answer. But, in general terms I think halfling with healing marks gives the best first choice in most cases.