Acrobat/Ninja Spy still impossible?

[Deep_Sashelas]

That's all.

Just curious if this is so and if it is WAI.

[RioRussell]

Yes still impossible (can't mix rogue tumble with monk tumble). no word yet if it's WAI.

[WeaselKing]

Yes it is impossible and I am sure it is WAI, just like the inability to have a Stalwart Defender of Siberys.

[Deep_Sashelas]

Yes still impossible (can't mix rogue tumble with monk tumble). no word yet if it's WAI.

Thank you for the quick response.

Now for my rant...

ah nevermind. Anyway, I eagerly await the official explanation. Although it seems there are other PrE's that do not combine (perhaps for good reason) this one doesn't really strike me as necessarily exclusive.

[Memnir]

Anyway, I eagerly await the official explanation.

The Devs have not commented on it to date, that I'm aware of. And that means they probably won't. I think it's just going to be one of those things that confuse us players on why they did it, while the Devs keep that why to themselves.

[Asketes]

Yes still impossible (can't mix rogue tumble with monk tumble). no word yet if it's WAI.

you can't mix class vs class enhancements, only class vs race

can't have cleric charisma and favored soul charisma

but you can have drow charisma and cleric charisma

i think those are the right enhancements, even if' it's inherently wrong, it's technically a correct example.

[Missing_Minds]

The Devs have not commented on it to date, that I'm aware of. And that means they probably won't. I think it's just going to be one of those things that confuse us players on why they did it, while the Devs keep that why to themselves.

My bet is that it is working as intended. You can't mix paladin Hunter of the Undead with cleric Radiant Servent for the same reason.

They'll have to revamp the enhancement system. Something I think that needs to be done, but would probably take a fair bit to do. Or maybe not as I don't know how they have it rigged.

[Memnir]

My bet is that it is working as intended.

I agree that it's WAI. My point was just that I don't think the Devs will ever come forth and say why they made it the way that it is. It just is.

[Missing_Minds]

I agree that it's WAI. My point was just that I don't think the Devs will ever come forth and say why they made it the way that it is. It just is.

Maybe we can get lucky and one of them will get bored and decide to post? Well... we can hope for such. Waiting on compiles is boring. *waits on his own.*

[RioRussell]

I don't think it's WAI. I don't think this was done because it was too powerful to combine the two, you can combine Assassin / Ninja Spy just fine, TA / Ninja Spy isn't fundamentally more powerful. These should be mixes for flavor. The Ninja Spy faster sneaking works well with thief acrobat faster sneaking, and the quarterstaff meshes well with the PrE as a monk weapon.


2 Proposals.
Difficult: Revamp the enhancement system to allow same skill bonuses regardless of class (difficult, lots of QA time and may break something unintended - I would not do this)

Easy: Change the Monk Ninja Spy prerequisite to Jump II, Spot II (keeping with the rogue-ish theme, minimal QA budget needed).

rio

[Dylos_Moon]

Yes it is impossible and I am sure it is WAI, just like the inability to have a Stalwart Defender of Siberys.

Or Deepwood Sniper Assassin, and Deepwood Sniper is still only a tier 1.

[Eladrin]

The prerequisites were selected as thematically appropriate, although this does prevent certain multiclass PrE combinations.

In Update 7, however, class specific skill enhancements will be replaced with "generalized" class skill enhancements. (i.e. "Rogue Hide I" will be replaced with "Improved Hide I".) All prerequisites for enhancements that previously referred to class specific skill enhancements will refer to these general skill enhancements. Improved <skill> I - IV each cost 1 AP, rather than 1/2/3/4. Due to this change, some multiclass Prestige Enhancement combinations will become possible which were previously impossible. You will need to respec your enhancements to take advantage of these changes.

It's something we've wanted to do for a while.

[Memnir]

Okay, I was wrong. And we got some nice info to boot.

TY, Eladrin. I appreciate the direct communication.

[Kale_Hagan]

Heck yeah! Thank you!

[Borror0]

In Update 7, however, class specific skill enhancements will be replaced with "generalized" class skill enhancements.

I think you've made Aesop the happiest DDO player on Earth.

[RioRussell]

Yes it is impossible and I am sure it is WAI, just like the inability to have a Stalwart Defender of Siberys.

I am not so sure it's game breaking to allow a Stalwart / DoS build: you gain an extra 2 AC for the DoS splash, but you lose 2 AC and some extra DR from missing stalwart III. Sure you could have double defensive stances with some stacking stat bonuses, but you would be moving at something like 8% of base speed (1/3 * 1/4). Not to mention the heavy AP investment for getting to DoS I. You would be better off with Stalwart III.

I have a hard time believing that multiple prestige classes are inherently overpowered. So far the devs have done a good job making tier III worth enough to keep this from occurring. A couple tweaks of prerequisite skills would give us more options to customize. I fail to see where the downside in all of this is.

rio

Edit: You rock Eladrin. Thanks for the info.

[Eladrin]

Oh, I should mention explicitly - some multiclass PrE combinations will remain impossible, such as Stalwart Defender / Defender of Siberys. We're only changing the skill enhancements at this time.

All classes will also receive the skill enhancements for all of their class skills (except for Use Magic Device, which doesn't have a skill enhancement line) rather than just a handful of them.

[bbqzor]

This is exactly the kind of good (specific, usable, makes it easier to plan for changes meaning less wasted effort) information I hope to find every time I read a Dev post, thank you!

Able to make any comments about how it will affect racial skill lines (like dwarf search) and dragonmark skill lines (like orien balance)? Will they also move to 1/1/1/1 costing, have any other changes, or will they remain as is?

[rimble]

It's something we've wanted to do for a while.

Glad you're getting around to it, it'll be good for the character scene...now back to planning my Acrobat/Ninja Spy that I tossed out when I found out it wasn't possible...

[QuantumFX]

Oh, I should mention explicitly - some multiclass PrE combinations will remain impossible, such as Stalwart Defender / Defender of Siberys. We're only changing the skill enhancements at this time.

So… what you’re saying is… that you have plans for action boosts?