Feedback: Make Some Traps!

[Angelus_dead]

And because I'm a Mechanic II, I usually get a lot more than that.

What makes you think Mechanic increases the number of parts? I thought it was just the chance to get parts or not.

For comparison, the first trap in HIPS gives a nonmechanic 2-10 acid parts. (There seems to be a relationship between the number of animated trap pieces and the number of parts, but I'm not sure how solid it is)

[Angelus_dead]

No more-so then your posting of false information that first access to those bags are in the Twelve.

1. The Twelve is the first place Ingredient bags were added to the game.
2. The Twelve is the first place players obtain ingredient bags, because it would be quite stupid to go spend thousands of plat when an NPC is waiting to hand you a free bag.
3. Players can obtain the Trapmaking feat before they are anywhere near earning enough plat to pay for a bag.
4. The Twelve is less walking distance.

The dominant fact is that Ingredient were first added to DDO for Vale of the Twilight, so it made sense that you get the bags upon going there. But as later content added ingredients to places characters reach earlier, it would make sense if players were provided with the bags earlier, especially since the subject of this thread is how intuitive it is to figure out Trapmaking on your own.

New players who haven't yet been to Vale of Twilight will probably be unaware of Ingredient bags, and some of them will assume that the Trapmaking feat forces them to choose between clogging their inventory with six stacks of low-value items, or manually deleting them after disarming a trap.

[Coldin]

None of those are magical IIRC, they are all mechanical or one type of "element" or another.

Anyone test to see if the teleportation traps in rainbow give magical components? These and disjunction traps are the only ones I can think of that couldn't go into the elemental type traps (and by elemental, I include poison, holy, force, etc).

There's one grease trap in there though, and it's box was giving me nothing.

[Coldin]

What makes you think Mechanic increases the number of parts? I thought it was just the chance to get parts or not.

For comparison, the first trap in HIPS gives a nonmechanic 2-10 acid parts. (There seems to be a relationship between the number of animated trap pieces and the number of parts, but I'm not sure how solid it is)

I think it's more a relation to the difficulty of the box and how many parts it gives you than anything to do with the trap the box it controls.

I suppose I was thinking that an increased chance of getting parts, it also is an increase chance on how many parts you get.

Either way, every box I disable I get some parts. Except for the few traps that I've seen do spells. Like the grease trap in Binders. (Just confirmed that it is a grease trap)

[Steiner-Davion]

• Did you understand how to obtain a guide to trap making in-game?

Is this guide an item? If it is an item tat goes in your inventory, please reconsider this, and include it in the feat or ability description. There is no reason it should require an inventory space.

[Coldin]

Just made an average fire trap. (That's 50 fire parts, 50 mechanical parts, 1 lesser fire elemental soul gem, and some small amount of fragments)

It made 5 traps, that deal 20d6 fire damage. Min level 7. (I thought they would be min level 10)

[Steiner-Davion]

I think it is a terrible idea, that some traps Require Soul Stones, which can only be created by a completely worthless and ineffectual spell, that most wizards and sorcerors do not use.

[Angelus_dead]

Is this guide an item? If it is an item tat goes in your inventory, please reconsider this, and include it in the feat or ability description. There is no reason it should require an inventory space.

It's an item which can be stored in your ingredients bag, and is cheap enough to just throw away after reading. It can also be stored in screenshots, and probably people will put that information in web pages too. Including it in the feat description would probably run off the screen.

[Coldin]

I think it is a terrible idea, that some traps Require Soul Stones, which can only be created by a completely worthless and ineffectual spell, that most wizards and sorcerors do not use.

I think the aspect that's even worse than requiring these soul gems is that it's for a very meager increase in power.

Five small traps (15d6) cost 25 elemental parts, 25 mechanical parts, and a small amount of fragments.

Five average traps (20d6) cost 50 elemental parts, 50 mechanical parts, a weak soul gem, and some more fragements.

So, for less than the cost of 5 average traps, I could make 10 small traps. And I can stack those 10 traps. It's actually more cost efficient to make the weaker traps.

[Burradin]

I think it is a terrible idea, that some traps Require Soul Stones, which can only be created by a completely worthless and ineffectual spell, that most wizards and sorcerors do not use.

As I send all my little black gems to my wizzy and have been every since Trap the Soul came out, I see AH money in my future. More likely, I see my wizzy supplying my rogue with the soulstones. Having not looked at any of thise, wonder if any of the soul stones I create a year ago will be useful....hmmmmm

[Coldin]

Just made some very lackluster *cough* er...average alchemists fires.

6d6 damage. Min-level 6 to use.

Ok...so maybe these would be useful at level 6, but I just can't see how level 6 rogues are going to really farm the 50 trap parts it takes to make them. Much easier to farm 25 parts, and get 20 flasks from the deal.

These really should be more powerful. Increasing in 2d6 per tier is just not worth the resources.

[Tamerlane]

6d6 at level 6 is the same (base)damage that a wizards fireball will do at that level....

[SolarDawning]

6d6 at level 6 is the same (base)damage that a wizards fireball will do at that level....

Except that potency items and elemental enhancements make the damage output from the caster far higher.

6d6 really won't do much against DDO-style mob hit points.

[Coldin]

Suggestion:

Leave the recipes the same, but make increasing returns for using more ingredients.

Examples.

10 fire parts, 10 mechanical parts still makes 10 weak fire traps.

25 fire parts, 25 mechanical parts would make 15 small fire traps.

50 fire parts, 50 mechanical parts, and a weak fire elemental would make 30 average fire traps.


Basically, this would encourage players to make these higher tiered traps since they still get a good amount of traps, and they deal more damage. Otherwise, it's much better to just make a bunch of weak traps and stack them up. At least this is what I'm seeing from my experience.

[Hendrik]

1. The Twelve is the first place Ingredient bags were added to the game.
2. The Twelve is the first place players obtain ingredient bags, because it would be quite stupid to go spend thousands of plat when an NPC is waiting to hand you a free bag.
3. Players can obtain the Trapmaking feat before they are anywhere near earning enough plat to pay for a bag.
4. The Twelve is less walking distance.

The dominant fact is that Ingredient were first added to DDO for Vale of the Twilight, so it made sense that you get the bags upon going there. But as later content added ingredients to places characters reach earlier, it would make sense if players were provided with the bags earlier, especially since the subject of this thread is how intuitive it is to figure out Trapmaking on your own.

New players who haven't yet been to Vale of Twilight will probably be unaware of Ingredient bags, and some of them will assume that the Trapmaking feat forces them to choose between clogging their inventory with six stacks of low-value items, or manually deleting them after disarming a trap.

Except you didn't say any of that did you?

You said;

One problem is that trap components are stored in Ingredient Bags, which are first obtained by going over to The Twelve and signing up for Vale of Twilight. So for level 4 Rogues to start automatically salvaging trap parts without being told how to store them is unfriendly.

It's stupid to have players pick up a bag that will fill in a few hours and then be looking for something bigger.

Next time, try to be a bit more specific.

Walking distance. Really?

[Coldin]

So, I've been trying to think about the otherside of trapmaking, the grenades. They're kind of following the same diminishing returns that mines suffer from. Except they start out with even less damage. So, I think the damage needs to increase at a greater amount, and we need to see more grenades per recipe.

Examples: (Vial increase for sanity reasons)

10 elemental parts/ 10 crude vials - 10 weak grenades (deal 2d6 damage)
25 elemental parts/ 20 crude vials - 20 small grenades (deal 6d6 damage)
50 elemental parts / 30 simple vials / weak soul gem - 30 average grenades (deal 10d6 damage)
.....
100 elemental parts / 50 unadorned vials / strong soul gem - 50 large grenades (deal 20d6 damage


Something like that anyway. Grenades are a bit trickier to balance, I'll admit. I'm not sure how much a rogue is going to want to use them instead of swinging a sword or shooting a crossbow, since essentially that's what a grenade toss is replacing. But, it seems like it would be really easy to make them too powerful.

With mines, at least you can set them up before hand, and lead monsters into them while still attacking.

Justifying the increased amount of grenades and mines, I basically see it as the rogue getting better at trapmaking, and instead of only making a few at a time to practice, has improved to making large batches of more powerful traps.


Still can't test Magical Traps yet. Can't find any of the parts.

[Coldin]

I've been playing a bit more with the noisemakers, and they actually are pretty useful to the soloing rogue. I think it might be quite possible to stealth more quests now. I do wish they would last just a bit longer. Maybe there could be different versions of these as well, that last longer, and have a wider range of sound?

[Lithic]

I've been playing a bit more with the noisemakers, and they actually are pretty useful to the soloing rogue. I think it might be quite possible to stealth more quests now. I do wish they would last just a bit longer. Maybe there could be different versions of these as well, that last longer, and have a wider range of sound?

Can you stealth into the path of a patrolling mob, drop a landmine, stealth away, and let the mob walk onto it? If so, does the mob then aggro on you?

[Coldin]

Can you stealth into the path of a patrolling mob, drop a landmine, stealth away, and let the mob walk onto it? If so, does the mob then aggro on you?

No idea! But I'll certainly test it out!

[BlackSteel]

any chance of enhancements (or the mechanic PrE) to increase trap damage?