Getting refused into Vale of Twilight raids (Shroud, Hounds, VOD)

[kcalbyz]

You're dead on. it's why i re-specced my AA as another tempest since I pretty much just run her for raid now (she'll most likely be a tempest-assassin in her next life). All the end-game raids are is beating on a BFD with massive DPS until it drops. yes there are tactics, but with the immunities things have that's pretty much it. Very one-dimensional, it's still fun but not great if you don't fit the mold. Questing with my AA was great, raiding not so much.

Look at the bright-side, you'll never get turned down for DQ!

LOL yeah...at least I am good for something..=)

Conratulations you have been Thunder-Struck by Uber-Elitists!

Ever hear how its is said that some cops were picked-on in high-school, and they now get society back by giving them speeding tickets?

Well the uber-elites were ostracized from the supposed upper-echelon of society in their youth and now have the chance to hold-predjudice against others they deem unfit to quest with.

With a mantra of " I can Zerg! I can Solo! I can Zerg! I can Solo!" or
"My Milk-Shake brings all the boys to the yard! My Build is Better than Yours!"

They form groups and pass judgement on other characters and their playstyles!

Play with friends and guildies and eFg them!

That is all... for now...

LOL! Funny way to put it but I guess it might be true.

Yeah I probably should do more runs with my guildmates. I can be a little aloof at times and don't interact with my guild people as often as I should. Probably that is why I prefer to hide in the Deep Woods.

[kcalbyz]

Don't, you need some more gear and you need to play with people with more open minds. you're in a guild use it to your advantage. if not, join a different guild.




You need a dwarf. My human Exploiter with a TR and tons of gear will be able to hit 495 (unbuffed, rage, madstone, yugo-steroids will give him more). He sits at 400 now and is fine, when I need more I down a rage and yugo pot for another 60.

That "all melees must have 500 HP" garbage that is thrown around is for non-evasion toons with no AC.

Hmm how about Half-Orcs? Wonder if they can be a good tempest build. If i do a TR, I don't get to change race right?

[grodon9999]

Hmm how about Half-Orcs? Wonder if they can be a good tempest build. If i do a TR, I don't get to change race right?

Yeah, Half orcs could be interesting depending on how they're implemented. Though Kensai, barbarian, or Monster build will likely be the way to go.

[kcalbyz]

If the big brooding barbarians get their aggro stolen by a 90-pound elf, they should be embarrassed (except in VoD, Sulu just does some funny stuff when a bow is involved). Save the manyshot for the "money shot," whip it out and give Harry a nice slayer-arrow facial when he's at 5%. You won't draw aggro that way and if you do he's about to die anway.

Even on my tempest in part 4 if we're getting laggy healing (game's fault, not the healers) I'll jump back and hit manyshot when the blades come in. Even a tempest can do out about 5000 damage in a manyshot with a Silver bow, yes it's less DPS than i do with my blades but it's still good damage.

Yeah I pulled Sulu's (different from Arraetrikos?) aggro before but I followed instructions and went to a corner where the appointed tank is waiting to get the aggro back. It went like clockwork and we were doing fine till the exploding bats hit. Think webs was supposed to be put up or something to traps the bats but the caster were a little slow and 4 party members died instantly including one of the healers. Things went downhill from there even though we almost killed Sulu.

It was interesting to note that the leader of the party said at the end when we all released was that we did pretty well considering that we had 3 rangers in the party. It appears to me that he expected that we should have wiped much earlier. =P

[grodon9999]

It was interesting to note that the leader of the party said at the end when we all released was that we did pretty well considering that we had 3 rangers in the party. It appears to me that he expected that we should have wiped much earlier. =P

You're party leader was in idiot.

[Wyrmnax]

Just looking at your myddo. It is easy to understand what happens. Its a lot of small points that add up.

318, as was stated numerous times on this thread, is a bit low. Mind you, not absurdly low, but people are spoiled. Even as a evasion character you want to be looking at 350+.

The second thing that hits is the 22 STR, 34 DEX.
Not being a max STR character means you are not a max DPS character. Even on Rogues or Monks this is true - When you want a melee to do damage, you prefer one that does the maximum possible dps. Being a Archer just exacerbates the problem - You need DEX for the to-hit, but it gives you nothing on the damage bonuses AND your damage comes from normal hits ( instead of a Rogue's Sneak attack, for example )

Being a Archer is the big -. Archers are (correctly) regarded as lower DPS than melees on DDO. You need STR for the damage, DEX for the to-hit and most of your damage is coming from your damage bonuses, not from a sneak attack.


I believe that most people that rejected you based on myDDO did so because they saw a meh DPS that might not have enough hp to survive on the first place.

[Daehawk]

Hmm how about Half-Orcs? Wonder if they can be a good tempest build. If i do a TR, I don't get to change race right?

Yes TR allows you to change race. LR and GR don't.

[kcalbyz]

You're party leader was in idiot.

He was pretty nice actually. Just that his expectation was a tad low so he was amazed when we surpassed it.

Just looking at your myddo. It is easy to understand what happens. Its a lot of small points that add up.

318, as was stated numerous times on this thread, is a bit low. Mind you, not absurdly low, but people are spoiled. Even as a evasion character you want to be looking at 350+.

The second thing that hits is the 22 STR, 34 DEX.
Not being a max STR character means you are not a max DPS character. Even on Rogues or Monks this is true - When you want a melee to do damage, you prefer one that does the maximum possible dps. Being a Archer just exacerbates the problem - You need DEX for the to-hit, but it gives you nothing on the damage bonuses AND your damage comes from normal hits ( instead of a Rogue's Sneak attack, for example )

Being a Archer is the big -. Archers are (correctly) regarded as lower DPS than melees on DDO. You need STR for the damage, DEX for the to-hit and most of your damage is coming from your damage bonuses, not from a sneak attack.


I believe that most people that rejected you based on myDDO did so because they saw a meh DPS that might not have enough hp to survive on the first place.

So basically I am gimped....sigh...more reasons to just quickly level through and just TR it. Probably have a better chance of getting my first GS item in my next life.

[LordPiglet]

Frankly I have no idea how to hit 400 hp prior to getting the advice from here. I started playing for about 2 months or so and started with a 28 point build with Deepwood as preset path. You can call me a noob if you want but seriously HP was never a problem till I hit the Vale. I do Gianthold fine and soloed most of the time. No one complained about my HP and I do my fair share of healing people since I can cast Cure Serious Wounds.

If only I have access to 32 point build and the advice from earlier then maybe I wouldn't have made the mistake of not having enough HP for end game.

Actually I am beginning to have the feeling that end game raids are meant for Casters, Healers and Melees only. Not particularly Ranged Ranger friendly.

The demon queen raid is built for rangers (just don't forget your cold iron arrows, infact I have a quiver with only cold iron and silver arrows). My 17/2 temptest rogue jumped in one the other day and the comments were basically "we're fine now, it's on normal and we have a ranger". The only bow I carry is a frost holy of pg, and I only used one round of multishot. I was doing crits in the 150 pt range.

For your shroud boss beaters, metaline holy burst of Greater evil outsider bane is best. However, you can find metaline of pg at level 6 (i would assume lvl 4 with a RR). I use a silver anarchic of pg, and metaline of pg. I don't even use the vorpals as the silver does so much damage to everything. Spend some time shopping, make sure to look around at all the weapon types you can use. I found 2 metaline kopeshes of pg for my exploiter and bought them on the cheap (less then 200k gold each) even through I can't use them until I get her UMD to 20.


If you're a VIP, it might be worth it to save up some TP and get a greater heart and a 32 pt build, especially if you're not planning a TR.

I'm currently at 363hp, started with a 12 con, +2 stat bumps, +2 tome at 7, +6 item, dusk heart, and a minos, toughness, racial toughness I and II. The only time I came close to death was my first run, in part 4 (actually was incapacitated). I didn't have the minos and was only lvl 17 at the time. That was the only run I haven't been in through the blades.

[Crazyfruit]

I probably know almost all the people rejecting you on Orien. It's not just you, they decline almost everyone for silly reasons - in your case it'd be the HP instead of being a ranged ranger 90% of the time. They generally decline anyone with under 450 according to myddo even on normal runs, and if you're not wearing a minos helm when you logged off.

It's pretty embarassing to be grouped with them sometimes when they talk about all the declining they're doing on voice chat.

Watch for some by Kwizqjirqtl & Sparkle, ranged people are always welcome on hers even if they only have 100 hp. Unfortunately hers also fill in far less time than it takes the other groups

[LordPiglet]

He was pretty nice actually. Just that his expectation was a tad low so he was amazed when we surpassed it.



So basically I am gimped....sigh...more reasons to just quickly level through and just TR it. Probably have a better chance of getting my first GS item in my next life.

Just be patient, you should easily get on some farming 1-3 or farming 1 runs. I've ran all my shrouds to completion, but I plan on running a few of those this weekend so I can build my first item and gather rapier ingredients. I'll do 3-4 atleast on saturday, and then hit a completion on Sunday.

[Bilger]

I love when read ya need 500 hp to fight fiend. Seriously if the healer can't keep someone up and need people to have 500 hp needs to look at themselves first.

Archers are fun and can dish out some nice DPS given not as good as normal melees but nice anyways.

As a archer if taking major damage then need to look at how you are playing and adjust style to make yourself more sufficient and a better party member. Work with the group and find your fit in it after first encounter you should be able to atleast get the idea of how things will go.

Hp is nice just not the end all be all it is the smarts and ability of the player that makes the character work.

Coming here and asking why and getting help shows you have some smarts and will put it to use.

As far as HP 318 is lil low but not bad as a ranged char just learn when and where to strike and ya will be fine.

I won't go into ways to increase HP that has been done already.

Seriously as a final note 500hp is nice but not req if the healer is having trouble because someone don't have that high they need to look at themselves first then group.

Remember we did shrouds with 13-16's all the time and no way everyone had 500hp and healing was ez then and easier now with lag exceptions.

[kcalbyz]

The demon queen raid is built for rangers (just don't forget your cold iron arrows, infact I have a quiver with only cold iron and silver arrows). My 17/2 temptest rogue jumped in one the other day and the comments were basically "we're fine now, it's on normal and we have a ranger". The only bow I carry is a frost holy of pg, and I only used one round of multishot. I was doing crits in the 150 pt range.

For your shroud boss beaters, metaline holy burst of Greater evil outsider bane is best. However, you can find metaline of pg at level 6 (i would assume lvl 4 with a RR). I use a silver anarchic of pg, and metaline of pg. I don't even use the vorpals as the silver does so much damage to everything. Spend some time shopping, make sure to look around at all the weapon types you can use. I found 2 metaline kopeshes of pg for my exploiter and bought them on the cheap (less then 200k gold each) even through I can't use them until I get her UMD to 20.


If you're a VIP, it might be worth it to save up some TP and get a greater heart and a 32 pt build, especially if you're not planning a TR.

I'm currently at 363hp, started with a 12 con, +2 stat bumps, +2 tome at 7, +6 item, dusk heart, and a minos, toughness, racial toughness I and II. The only time I came close to death was my first run, in part 4 (actually was incapacitated). I didn't have the minos and was only lvl 17 at the time. That was the only run I haven't been in through the blades.

Oh yeah I forgot! I have a duskheart in my bank! Darn it! LOL! Yeah my HP goes up by 20 to 338! But I lose the use of Bloodstone...=(

I am going for TR anyway since I want to at least try out the Archer Capstone.

[kcalbyz]

I love when read ya need 500 hp to fight fiend. Seriously if the healer can't keep someone up and need people to have 500 hp needs to look at themselves first.

Archers are fun and can dish out some nice DPS given not as good as normal melees but nice anyways.

As a archer if taking major damage then need to look at how you are playing and adjust style to make yourself more sufficient and a better party member. Work with the group and find your fit in it after first encounter you should be able to atleast get the idea of how things will go.

Hp is nice just not the end all be all it is the smarts and ability of the player that makes the character work.

Coming here and asking why and getting help shows you have some smarts and will put it to use.

As far as HP 318 is lil low but not bad as a ranged char just learn when and where to strike and ya will be fine.

I won't go into ways to increase HP that has been done already.

Seriously as a final note 500hp is nice but not req if the healer is having trouble because someone don't have that high they need to look at themselves first then group.

Remember we did shrouds with 13-16's all the time and no way everyone had 500hp and healing was ez then and easier now with lag exceptions.

I will try to find ways to push my HP higher to 350 by items. Now that I have 338 HP with a Duskheart (forgot entirely about it), so probably a Minos Legen would solve my problem.

I figured that by sacrificing damage output and boost HP just for raids and then switch back to my usual stuff when I go back to usual questing should do the trick for now. How often does myDDO update? If I put on the items just before applying for the raids...will myDDO get updated in time for the party leaders to see?

[Chai]

What are you wearing in the head slot that justifies not having minos legens? - which gives heavy fort and 20 stackable hp. If its a stat item like wis, I recommend moving that to ring or neck and putting a minos on. duskheart is 20 hp - improved false life - if I remember correctly - shoot for a greater false life item for 30 hp, they are expensive at min level 13 but at min level 15 you can find them floating around on the fine enchanted clothing brokers in the market, along with 6 con items ~60 - 80k gp. You should hit 400 hp easy.

[kcalbyz]

What are you wearing inthe head slot that justifies not having minos legens? - which gives heavy fort and 20 stackable hp. If its a stat item like wis, I recommend moving that to ring or neck and putting a minos on.

It is not what I am wearing on my head that cause me not to wear mino legens but more the fact that I don't own a minos and I don't have the Necro 4 pack. I know, I know I gotta get it.

[Crazyfruit]

How often does myDDO update? If I put on the items just before applying for the raids...will myDDO get updated in time for the party leaders to see?

It sometimes updates when you log off.

Other than that who knows :|

Many friends use things like madstone rage, clickies, and other buffs before they log for the night to get around those raid group declines.

[Chai]

I love when read ya need 500 hp to fight fiend. Seriously if the healer can't keep someone up and need people to have 500 hp needs to look at themselves first.

Archers are fun and can dish out some nice DPS given not as good as normal melees but nice anyways.

As a archer if taking major damage then need to look at how you are playing and adjust style to make yourself more sufficient and a better party member. Work with the group and find your fit in it after first encounter you should be able to atleast get the idea of how things will go.

Hp is nice just not the end all be all it is the smarts and ability of the player that makes the character work.

Coming here and asking why and getting help shows you have some smarts and will put it to use.

As far as HP 318 is lil low but not bad as a ranged char just learn when and where to strike and ya will be fine.

I won't go into ways to increase HP that has been done already.

Seriously as a final note 500hp is nice but not req if the healer is having trouble because someone don't have that high they need to look at themselves first then group.

Remember we did shrouds with 13-16's all the time and no way everyone had 500hp and healing was ez then and easier now with lag exceptions.

You are mostly right on this.

The only classes that are making it to 500 without having to kick claw and scrape for every hp they can get are the toughness classes. Many min maxers dont see past the big three templates for max dps. They do lead raids however, and its easier to get in with a decent hp amount.

The classes that do not have toughness as a class enhance generally also have lower hit dice. If you arent a dwarf you probably arent making it to 500 hp pre shroud or even post shroud unless on a toughness class. I see monks running around with t3 shroud hp items and 450 hp - they do just fine.

Having higher hp will get you into more PUG raids. Sux that this is the case with all the min maxers running around, but it is the reality we play in.

Another issue here is if everyone else in the raid has alot more hp than you, the healer is overhealing the other 6 or 7 people with masses just to keep you alive. If they have to heart attack spot heal you between masses, this can get rough. 318 hp can create a situation where you are at 50% hp when everyone else is at 80 or 85% if you are in a raid with a bunch of fighters and barbs.

My goal is to get to the point where my toon doesnt need any more "individual" healing other than the mass heals already being tossed. That number of hp may be different for each toon depending on evasion and aggro management.

[kcalbyz]

It sometimes updates when you log off.

Other than that who knows :|

Many friends use things like madstone rage, clickies, and other buffs before they log for the night to get around those raid group declines.

Yeah logging off works. I wanted to put my Metalline of Pure Good Longbow on so I can show that I have a boss beater (even though it is ranged) but I realised it turns up as a +4 Frost Longbow of Pure Good because I had used the Risia recipe 4/20 on it. Tsk tsk...

[LordPiglet]

Yeah logging off works. I wanted to put my Metalline of Pure Good Longbow on so I can show that I have a boss beater (even though it is ranged) but I realised it turns up as a +4 Frost Longbow of Pure Good because I had used the Risia recipe 4/20 on it. Tsk tsk...

Don't know if it would make a difference, but stick some silver arrows in your arrow slot, that way they see you can by pass the dr (if if you don't actually need those to bypass the dr). I would comment on myddo, but it's archived for my 17/2 and doesn't show up.