Getting refused into Vale of Twilight raids (Shroud, Hounds, VOD)

[Sweyn]

I only have half my items acquired but here is a good AA
http://my.ddo.com/character/thelanis/syfiel/

Add 30 hps from gfl belt after buffing, 20 from rage, 40 from madstone = 497
Also have repeater feat for non manyshot dps

Research items, plan what you want and where to get it, and start upgrading your gear. Ranged is already subpar, don't let gear make it even worse.

Ehh stats could use a little work... how is your to-hit with only a 22 dex?

[Sirea]

I guess the bottom line is, do you enjoy playing this character?

Don't let anyone pressure you into going Tempest if you don't want to. A ranged-specced toon can still be effective, as long as you are willing to get the right gear to do the job (as is the case with any toon).

I have both a Tempest III and an Arcane Archer. The Tempest is decked out with Mineral II Khopeshes and dishes out the high-end DPS, as is expected of her build. I also find her pretty boring to play, as I do most of the melee toons I've capped out.

I find the Arcane Archer much more fun. It's unconventional, sure, and it's not top DPS, but she does better than I expected her to. I use an Icy Burst Holy of PG Longbow as her primary weapon (Icy Burst added with Risian rituals) and swap out House Deneith favor arrows as needed to bypass DR. I love the slaying arrows as well, seeing a +500 pop up over a mob's head occasionally makes me smile I'll be making my Lightning II Bow soon, I can't wait to have a new toy to play around with (one that shoots 600pt bolts of lightning at that! ).

I use ranged probably about 85-90% of the time. I use vorpals for some trash mobs, but I made a bow user to range, not to make the most of Manyshot for 20 seconds and be a wanna-be Tempest the rest of the time.

Your HP could use some work, but it sounds like you're aware of that and trying to make it better. Using a Metalline bow is kind of redundant considering you can get DR-bypassing arrows with 150 House D favor, so you should be looking for holy/PG or Holy/Greater Evil Outsider Bane to use until you make your greensteel bow. Even the Silver Longbow is a decent alternative.

I see you're using a Bloodstone, I've heard that the Bloodstone doesn't work with Ranged weapons. You'd be better served by getting a Shimmering Arrowhead out of Weapon Shipment in Shavarath, Not only is it Seeker +4 (and applied to ranged weapons from what I've heard), it also gives your ranged attacks the Crippling effect and a +2 attack bonus. Of course if my info is incorrect I apologize, but the added benefits on the Arrowhead should make it more desirable to a ranged toon regardless.

Bottom line is, don't let anyone telling you that you're "gimp" force you into rerolling. If you're having fun with ranged, stick with ranged. Just use the tactics you're already aware of (like letting the traditional tanks get aggro first before hitting your manyshot, etc.) and work on your gear/stats a bit.

[grodon9999]

I see you're using a Bloodstone, I've heard that the Bloodstone doesn't work with Ranged weapons.

You heard wrong.

[Sirea]

You heard wrong.

I fully admit that my information could be faulty, but I'd also be interested to see if any numbers have been run here on the forums (or screenshots posted) to support that the Bloodstone works with Ranged. I had heard from multiple sources that it wouldn't work so it'd be cool to have some info to present.

[JOTMON]

Got a +3 Wounding of Puncturing Bow in my bank...does it bypass DR of the raid boss? I also have the following;

1) +1 Holy Burst Rapier of Puncturing with Icy Burst and Force Critical
2) +3 Bodyfeeder Rapier of Puncturing with Icy Burst and Force Critical
3) +1 Paralysing Rapier of Puncturing with Icy Burst and Force Critical

I normally pair 2 and 3 together for CC and tanking damage. 1 and 2 when I have a healer and need DPS.

Well to fit in with the crowd, I will work my way to a vorpal or 2 so easier to get into a group. Rolling 20s are easier during manyshot though so thought my Slayer arrows can replace vorpals.

I typically melee like 80% of the time. I only range when I hitting bosses or when mobs are out of reach. Yeah I know what you mean about kiting around. What I do is start with manyshot and standstill whilst the boss make his way to me, then I switch to melee when manyshot is over.

Yeah will try to find my way into Shroud raids and build my armory again from scratch. Thanks for the advice!

Unfortuantely no the WofP or any stat damagers are ineffective vs raid bosses, but on everything else they rock.
Stick to your metalline of PG for raid bosses until you can craft a GS bow. Lightning strike is great, also consider a Disitegrate bow(450 untyped damage) as that will work on constructs and portals and anything the lightning strike doesn't work on.
Sounds like you have most of the gear to be in the right place..

Also keep an eye out for banishing rapiers in the vale quests they will send those Orthons Devils mephits and elementals back to their home planes faster than you can blink.

[maddmatt70]

I only have half my items acquired but here is a good AA
http://my.ddo.com/character/thelanis/syfiel/

Add 30 hps from gfl belt after buffing, 20 from rage, 40 from madstone = 497
Also have repeater feat for non manyshot dps

Research items, plan what you want and where to get it, and start upgrading your gear. Ranged is already subpar, don't let gear make it even worse.

Yes, your dex is kind of low for ranging in epic content, but it would be fine for Shroud/VOD/Hound/Tower. You should lesser reincarnate your stats so you have a dex in the low to mid 30s for epic if you choose to run those.

[grodon9999]

I fully admit that my information could be faulty, but I'd also be interested to see if any numbers have been run here on the forums (or screenshots posted) to support that the Bloodstone works with Ranged. I had heard from multiple sources that it wouldn't work so it'd be cool to have some info to present.

You need to find better sources. Did they also tell you to diplo a chest?

Use the "search" function on the forum, this has been confirmed several times.

[JOTMON]

Just looking at your myddo. It is easy to understand what happens. Its a lot of small points that add up.

318, as was stated numerous times on this thread, is a bit low. Mind you, not absurdly low, but people are spoiled. Even as a evasion character you want to be looking at 350+.

The second thing that hits is the 22 STR, 34 DEX.
Not being a max STR character means you are not a max DPS character. Even on Rogues or Monks this is true - When you want a melee to do damage, you prefer one that does the maximum possible dps. Being a Archer just exacerbates the problem - You need DEX for the to-hit, but it gives you nothing on the damage bonuses AND your damage comes from normal hits ( instead of a Rogue's Sneak attack, for example )

Being a Archer is the big -. Archers are (correctly) regarded as lower DPS than melees on DDO. You need STR for the damage, DEX for the to-hit and most of your damage is coming from your damage bonuses, not from a sneak attack.


I believe that most people that rejected you based on myDDO did so because they saw a meh DPS that might not have enough hp to survive on the first place.

The stats are decent, he will hit consistantly with the higher dex and 22 str will still provide ok damage, granted it will be more tail end damage from weapon set bows like greater bane and the real damage is from the slay living arrows. thats 500hp on crits and save vs death. Not many melee are boasting consistant 500damage on crits. Having the high dex is necessary because if he cant hit anything then he wont be damaging anything. better to keep dex maxxed and stick with melee finessable weapons. Ranger Favoured enemy enancements will also add to the damage.

His real paradox is to be able to get into shroud to craft the HP and better gear items.
Getting the Minos helm and get a GFL item is a good start.
Keep upgrading to better gear, the shroud runs will come.
Run Vale quests to build ingredients and get familiar with others ready to run shroud quests.
Build your greensteel items and layout your GS planners, be ready.
The shroud runs will happen.

[Cyr]

I fully admit that my information could be faulty, but I'd also be interested to see if any numbers have been run here on the forums (or screenshots posted) to support that the Bloodstone works with Ranged. I had heard from multiple sources that it wouldn't work so it'd be cool to have some info to present.

It definetly works. I run bloodstones on many toons and you really notice when it is off when you are ranging and you crit.

[Sirea]

You need to find better sources. Did they also tell you to diplo a chest?

Har har

I never said I knew everything, and I don't know where I got it in my head that it didn't work.

It definetly works. I run bloodstones on many toons and you really notice when it is off when you are ranging and you crit.

Great, so now I have to obtain another Bloodstone Or are the added benefits on the Arrowhead work taking the Seeker +4 over the Seeker +6? Or is a Litany of the Dead ultimately better than both of them?

[Cyr]

Great, so now I have to obtain another Bloodstone Or are the added benefits on the Arrowhead work taking the Seeker +4 over the Seeker +6? Or is a Litany of the Dead ultimately better than both of them?

Depends on the build for Litany. I generally think of the arrowhead as a fill in until I pull another bloodstone on the toons which use it. The special power on it is not teribly useful on an AA, but on a repeater build it can be pretty nice.

[Velexia]

I have been having problems getting into Vale raids with my 19 Arcane Archer. It seems I got rejected because:

1) HP is too low - 318 with 20 con with evasion and reflex of 27, unbuffed
2) I don't have vorpal weapons (does slayer arrows count? )
3) I am an deepwood sniper (respecced to arcane yesterday) and deepwoods are weak
4) I am an arcane archer and I draw aggro due to high DPS
5) I don't have melee boss beaters (even though I got a +4 Metalline Longbow of Pure Good with Frost and Force Critcal)

I done everything I could to beef up HP and even respecced to Arcane (was hoping for some deepwood upgrade, never came) and yet I still got refused entry.

Some are kind enough to tell what I need to beef up while others are plain insulting. Saw a Shroud raid group advertise, "No Arcane Archers!" the other day, and I thought here is my chance since I was still Deepwood then. I applied and he asked if I was an Arcane Archer, I replied, "Nope, Deepwood Sniper =)".

After some time, I receive notice I was declined. I asked the leader "Worried I might draw aggro by doing too much damage?", he replied, "nope, deepwood are too weak." Sigh...

Now that I am respecced to Arcane and boosted my hp a little to 318 with +2 con tome, I wonder if things will change?

And to the issue of me not having melee boss beaters, can I make up for it by getting into melee range and fire away with my ranged boss beater? I know the theory is that it is for the convenience of the healers to cast mass heals on those meleeing the boss so technically by getting in close and shooting my slayer arrows, I can overcome the need for melee boss beaters? I might do slower hits than melees but with Manyshot I should make up for it right?

I know I am ranting a little and I have a lot of questions but I do hope for some guidance here so that I can see where I can improve or make myself more useful in raids. It sucks to be refused for raids when you bought the pack specifically for the raids and for the chance to craft greensteel weapons.

Shroud leaders that refuse Arcane Archers are ignorant, plain and simple.

[Comegetsome]

its living some guys get very bad AA/DW on his party and all suffer discrimination after

[Tarnoc]

so as i stated before 500 hps is good to shoot for you may or may not get it but 318 is bad...my drow cleric has 442.....

as for archers like ive stated before it tends to be one really big issue....archers grab agro and jump around kiting and making the other meellees run and not hit thus making battles take longer and the ability to not mass heal.....

longer batles=more mana no matter how you try and justify it it is the flat out truth....

ill play with any archer that stands with the group and uses his point blank but if he jumps and runs screw it ill let him die and die he will wen hes got devils teleing right on him......

[Silvershaper]

Sounds like you've had some bad experiences with ranged characters? Why not let the guy who wants to join your team show what he's capable of instead of expecting the worst? There might be some rotten apples out there, but there sure as hell are also a lot of good archers around.

About the "elitist" ppl on Orien not wanting to take an AA in their team, it's true. I've tried it too (I also play an AA on Orien), but if you wish to stay on your AA path, just find someone else to quest/raid with. I myself have chosen to focus more on melee, not because some ppl were requesting (or demanding) it, but because I got sick of doing so little damage with my bows. Yes, I have good bows, and yes, I've put force dmg and icy burst on many of them, but I still do way more dmg by pulling out a couple of rapiers when the mob gets close enough for that. I still carry a good arsenal of bows with me though, 'cause they're fun to use and situationally quite good too.

And as Crazyfruit mentioned above, keep your eyes open for Kwizqjirqtl / Sparkle in the LFM - he and I almost lead a PuG to 2nd server completion on Abbot a while ago, and he also tried getting a PuG VoD run going tonight. You're also welcome to contact me in-game (Janerris), I'll be happy to help with e.g. Shroud if I'm not on timer or busy.

[Xyfiel]

Yes, your dex is kind of low for ranging in epic content, but it would be fine for Shroud/VOD/Hound/Tower. You should lesser reincarnate your stats so you have a dex in the low to mid 30s for epic if you choose to run those.

I have 3 TR's to do once I get some more items and hit 20 on the main raids, no need for LR. It is also the reason I have only used a +1 dex tome so far, and only have DEX II enhancement. The 4 extra TR points become 2 dex also. Add in +3 exceptional when I finally get my Tod rings, and +1 base from epic spectral gloves.
So 22 +3 tome +1 enhancement +2 TR +3 exceptional +1 spectral = 32

I have reworked his gear layout with known epic items, and will hit 50 self buffed with 2 more for FE. Still much farming to do...

[kcalbyz]

Woo! A quick update.

I just ran a Shroud raid on normal to completion earlier today. Actually did a farming run then a completion run. Both went rather smoothly. I think I died only once throughout both runs and that was in Part 5 battling Arrestrikos.

I was fortunate that I was let in despite having only 1 boss beater (Metalline Flametouched Rapier) and I somehow managed to stay alive for most parts perhaps due to the fact that there was 3 healers. On the last part, I wiped out my Silver Bow and manyshot with silver Slayer arrows twice whilst STANDING STILL and was quite relieved when no-one freaked out over it. I died at the end though but we managed to kill Arrestrikos anyway so all ended well.

And the best part was that I picked up a Vorpal Bastard Sword in Part 3 of the raid which makes the run oh so sweet! =). Only let down was that it was Exotic and I don't have that proficiency. Trying now to trade for a Simple or Martial Vorpal.

Okay so now I got 338 HP with Duskheart (10% blur helps no doubt) with 1 boss beater and 1 vorpal. All I need now is probably Minos Legen (or something equivalent), 1 more boss beater (bidded on a +3 Met. of PG handaxe but was outbidded by 4 million...) and 1 more vorpal (hope to trade the bastard sword though).

It seems like I am on my way to be "Shroud" ready. Thanks to all for the helpful advice! =)

[Bahamut2119]

I think 300 hp is about the average for non-melee specced chars including clerics and casters so I don't think I am to be condemned to the bin.

Nope 400 is for most end game support char with exceptions for newer played who just don't know/have the gear. Example my toons sit at approx the following hp
Amsdale 20 barb 840ish quad raged missing +4 con tome, barb tr(s), and a 28 pnt toon/ Barnor 18 Bard 2 fighter 525 hp constant 605 max missing +4 con tome, barb trs/Jeina 20 Sorc 392 Hp missing +4 con tome,shroud hp, Tr(s), +2 exeptional con/Jeinia 20 FVS 450ish hp missing +4 con tome, Shroud Hp, Tr(s)/ Valaim 20 Cleric 492 HP Missing +4 con tome,shroud hp, Tr(s), +2 exeptional con/ Jeiner 17 ranger 2 monk 354 hp missing 1 level +4 con tome,shroud hp, Tr(s), +2 exeptional con/ Amafel 18 rogue 2 fighter missing +4 con tome,shroud hp, Tr(s), +2 exeptional con.

As you can see there i run 400-850 self buffed hp for front line tanks with the lower end missing alot i slacked on most of my toons shroud gear and no less than 400 hp on my healers and caster all are missing 80 some odd hp before i do any tring not to say any of them exept my barb and bard will see any barb tr's. I know for a fact most of the guys i run with on argo have just as many if not 100-200 more hp on each of there toons minus my barb and bard. It helps alot in endgame epics and areas like shavarth to have those buffers.

[Angelus_dead]

I was fortunate that I was let in despite having only 1 boss beater (Metalline Flametouched Rapier) and I somehow managed to stay alive for most parts perhaps due to the fact that there was 3 healers. On the last part, I wiped out my Silver Bow and manyshot with silver Slayer arrows twice whilst STANDING STILL and was quite relieved when no-one freaked out over it. I died at the end though but we managed to kill Arrestrikos anyway so all ended well.

An AA should not need to melee Arraetrikos. Shooting arrows is all that's really called for, especially if going into melee creates the possibility of you getting killed (which is what happened in that example). Being dead lost a lot more DPS than you gained by TWFing that guy, especially since only one of your weapons beat DR.

A note about hitpoints:
Needing a lot of hitpoints is somewhat a circular thing. You see, people were beating this raid at level 14-15 with way less gear, so their hitpoints were less than you have now. But because everyone knew the hitpoints were less, it was ok, and you got healed sufficiently. But today if 90% of the guys have much more hp than you do, you'll seem like the weak link and the healers might not bother trying to keep you alive at all.

[Wyrmnax]

Needing a lot of hitpoints is somewhat a circular thing. You see, people were beating this raid at level 14-15 with way less gear, so their hitpoints were less than you have now. But because everyone knew the hitpoints were less, it was ok, and you got healed sufficiently. But today if 90% of the guys have much more hp than you do, you'll seem like the weak link and the healers might not bother trying to keep you alive at all.

While this is true, keep in mind that when people were beating this raid at level 14-15, people knew what they were doing.

The most you would get for a shroud would be 1 new guy.

Today it isnt hard to get a PUG Shroud with 4 people who have never done it before.