Getting refused into Vale of Twilight raids (Shroud, Hounds, VOD)

[kcalbyz]

I have been having problems getting into Vale raids with my 19 Arcane Archer. It seems I got rejected because:

1) HP is too low - 318 with 20 con with evasion and reflex of 27, unbuffed
2) I don't have vorpal weapons (does slayer arrows count? )
3) I am an deepwood sniper (respecced to arcane yesterday) and deepwoods are weak
4) I am an arcane archer and I draw aggro due to high DPS
5) I don't have melee boss beaters (even though I got a +4 Metalline Longbow of Pure Good with Frost and Force Critcal)

I done everything I could to beef up HP and even respecced to Arcane (was hoping for some deepwood upgrade, never came) and yet I still got refused entry.

Some are kind enough to tell what I need to beef up while others are plain insulting. Saw a Shroud raid group advertise, "No Arcane Archers!" the other day, and I thought here is my chance since I was still Deepwood then. I applied and he asked if I was an Arcane Archer, I replied, "Nope, Deepwood Sniper =)".

After some time, I receive notice I was declined. I asked the leader "Worried I might draw aggro by doing too much damage?", he replied, "nope, deepwood are too weak." Sigh...

Now that I am respecced to Arcane and boosted my hp a little to 318 with +2 con tome, I wonder if things will change?

And to the issue of me not having melee boss beaters, can I make up for it by getting into melee range and fire away with my ranged boss beater? I know the theory is that it is for the convenience of the healers to cast mass heals on those meleeing the boss so technically by getting in close and shooting my slayer arrows, I can overcome the need for melee boss beaters? I might do slower hits than melees but with Manyshot I should make up for it right?

I know I am ranting a little and I have a lot of questions but I do hope for some guidance here so that I can see where I can improve or make myself more useful in raids. It sucks to be refused for raids when you bought the pack specifically for the raids and for the chance to craft greensteel weapons.

[Angelus_dead]

It's true that someone with the Deepwood enhancements is pretty weak, and to take those enhancements is a warning sign that the player could be making other mistakes.

However, for characters of that level doing the normal modes of the three raids you listed, any minimally functional warm-body person should be fine. They are easy, and it doesn't take much to beat them. (Remember the 1000 silver arrows though)

If someone refuses a level 19 character from a normal vale raid, it's like he's insulting himself and all the members of the group, by implying that they're not good enough to carry along a weaker character. If the group is decent then they should be able to beat those raids even if half the group randomly disconnects.

[blitzschlag]

drama!

ibtl

note: even with regularily using manyshot you doing 30%+ less dps than yourself as a tempest ranger. there are builds that are misjudged falsely. aa/ds aren't however (raid wise).

[Beld]

but before/after that, ranged ROF is just too slow to make it worthwhile to not use that slot on another melee DPS toon.

AAs get all the TWF feats for free, find you a couple of metalline of PG weapons to use and then when/if you back out for the blades, pop Manyshot and tear it up, then switch back and head back in.

[Mjoll]

What I think the basic raid gear kit for an AA should include:

- no less than 12 CON at character creation
- vorpals for trash mobs
- metalline of pure good melee weapons for bosses
- a silver bow + silver arrows for bosses
- heavy fort item
- 6 CON item
- greater life item
- toughness feat
- all the hp enhancements

See how many you can check off the list and work towards getting the ones you are missing.

[kcalbyz]

It's true that someone with the Deepwood enhancements is pretty weak, and to take those enhancements is a warning sign that the player could be making other mistakes.

However, for characters of that level doing the normal modes of the three raids you listed, any minimally functional warm-body person should be fine. They are easy, and it doesn't take much to beat them. (Remember the 1000 silver arrows though)

If someone refuses a level 19 character from a normal vale raid, it's like he's insulting himself and all the members of the group, by implying that they're not good enough to carry along a weaker character. If the group is decent then they should be able to beat those raids even if half the group randomly disconnects.

I was doing fine actually with Deepwood in both soloing or groups in the past. Just that when it hits the higher level raids, the usefulness drops steeply, thus my disillusion with the build now. I mostly melee TWF though so that could explain my ability to make to level 19 despite the weakness of the build.

I carry 2000 of both silver and cold arrows along with a Silver Bow and a Metalline of Pure Good bow so got this aspect covered.

I did 1 VOD raid the other day with 3 rangers and although we didn't manage to kill the boss, he was down to a tiny silver of HP about 1-2%. And that was before I respecced so I think I can do better now.

drama!

ibtl

note: even with regularily using manyshot you doing 30%+ less dps than yourself as a tempest ranger. there are builds that are misjudged falsely. aa/ds aren't however (raid wise).

I don't know. Ranged combat is useful in certain raids or quests like Demon Queen and Ritual Sacrifice. AAs and DWS are helpful during those situations so I think there is a time and place for each role I guess.

I think if all rangers are doing Tempest and no AAs or DWS then something is really wrong with the game mechanics since we are missing out on certain fun aspect of the 3D environment.

but before/after that, ranged ROF is just too slow to make it worthwhile to not use that slot on another melee DPS toon.

AAs get all the TWF feats for free, find you a couple of metalline of PG weapons to use and then when/if you back out for the blades, pop Manyshot and tear it up, then switch back and head back in.

Yeah I am shopping for those now. Saw 1 Metalline Flametouched Iron Rapier going for 3 mil...tsk tsk...bidded for a Metalline Handaxe of Pure Good priced at 77k gold instead.

Beyond the weapons...anything else I need to do to improve or am I fine already?

[kcalbyz]

- no less than 12 CON at character creation - (yep bare minimum of 12 con achieved)
- vorpals for trash mobs (slayer arrow counts?)
- metalline of pure good melee weapons for bosses (shopping for them)
- a silver bow + silver arrows for bosses (done with a +4 Met. of PG Bow as backup)
- heavy fort item (Deathblock Robe of Heavy Fort.)
- 6 CON item (+6 Con Belt)
- greater life item (shopping for one)
- toughness feat (Got it)
- all the hp enhancements (Got whatever I can get in my class)

So basically I just need to get vorpal and boss beaters?

[epochofcrepuscule]

- no less than 12 CON at character creation - (yep bare minimum of 12 con achieved)
- vorpals for trash mobs (slayer arrow counts?) no
- metalline of pure good melee weapons for bosses (shopping for them)
- a silver bow + silver arrows for bosses (done with a +4 Met. of PG Bow as backup)
- heavy fort item (Deathblock Robe of Heavy Fort.)
- 6 CON item (+6 Con Belt)
- greater life item (shopping for one)
- toughness feat (Got it)
- all the hp enhancements (Got whatever I can get in my class)

So basically I just need to get vorpal and boss beaters?

If you have a metalline of pure good bow and silver arrows, you dont need the silver bow. Although, the silver bow will outdps your current bow easily enough.

[Mjoll]

- no less than 12 CON at character creation - (yep bare minimum of 12 con achieved)
- vorpals for trash mobs (slayer arrow counts?) not really, most raid trash mobs don't die from 1 or even 2 slayer arrows, dual vorpals > slayer arrows vs. raid trash mobs
- metalline of pure good melee weapons for bosses (shopping for them)
- a silver bow + silver arrows for bosses (done with a +4 Met. of PG Bow as backup) other than higher base damage the silver bow has the advantage of having double critical threat range and since Arraetrikos has 50% fort on normal difficulty you might score more crits with it but a metalline of pure good bow is fine too
- heavy fort item (Deathblock Robe of Heavy Fort.) get the minos helm, the 20 hp on it stacks with everything (if you dont have the orchard pack buy the taps from the AH, buy a 30 min pack for the orchard and then it only takes 1 min to turn in the taps and get the helm)
- 6 CON item (+6 Con Belt)
- greater life item (shopping for one)
- toughness feat (Got it)
- all the hp enhancements (Got whatever I can get in my class)

So basically I just need to get vorpal and boss beaters?

In red.

[Krag]

If someone refuses a level 19 character from a normal vale raid, it's like he's insulting himself and all the members of the group, by implying that they're not good enough to carry along a weaker character. If the group is decent then they should be able to beat those raids even if half the group randomly disconnects.

50% Shroud pugs deserve that insult.

[Beherit_Baphomar]

- no less than 12 CON at character creation - (yep bare minimum of 12 con achieved)
- vorpals for trash mobs (slayer arrow counts?)
- metalline of pure good melee weapons for bosses (shopping for them)
- a silver bow + silver arrows for bosses (done with a +4 Met. of PG Bow as backup)
- heavy fort item (Deathblock Robe of Heavy Fort.)
- 6 CON item (+6 Con Belt)
- greater life item (shopping for one)
- toughness feat (Got it)
- all the hp enhancements (Got whatever I can get in my class)

So basically I just need to get vorpal and boss beaters?

Your heavy fort item should be Minos Legens from Necro 4 until you can craft a shroud item. This helm also gives +20 HPs.

Do you have the Argonnessen favor to tier 2? Another 10hps.

Greensteel items can give you another +45HPs.

That's the only issue I see, and even then you're an archer, the point is to stay well outside melée damage range.

Like A_D said if a group needs the 'perfect' party to complete Shroud then they ain't gonna complete anyways.

[Xyfiel]

I only have half my items acquired but here is a good AA
http://my.ddo.com/character/thelanis/syfiel/

Add 30 hps from gfl belt after buffing, 20 from rage, 40 from madstone = 497
Also have repeater feat for non manyshot dps

Research items, plan what you want and where to get it, and start upgrading your gear. Ranged is already subpar, don't let gear make it even worse.

[Mystikill]

When running Shroud, Hound, or Vod we (guildies, friends,etc...) usually fill about 5-6 key spots and the rest we usually say bring anything. I don't mind bringing ranged rangers along, but I usually feel more comfortable bringing either people I know or people from established guilds. At least you show the ability to communicate and the willingness to listen and desire to contribute. That's better than 50 percent of the puggers I see out there. Hang in there and just let the party leader know you can be self sufficient. Happy Hunting.

P.S. Let people know what characters you play and on what server. You may find your way into more parties.

[Limey]

This thread worries me, I do have a 19 Tempest ranger that gets into and runs shroud fine. I also made an AA one that is currently level 9, should I bother to continue to level this or do most AA rangers generally get into shround groups OK?

I know all about heavy fort, con, hps and what weapons to have and when to melee etc btw.

[Lleren]

Your Hit Points are the main thing I would worry about at this time.
Minos Legens from Orchard Tapestry running ( Necro 4 pack )
A Greater False Life Item, or even Improved False Life.
150 Agents of Argonesse Favor ( Gianthold ) if you don't already have.

Metalline of pure good melee weapons woould be nice, but I see a whole lot of Puggles get in without them, or Vorpals, or even good portal beaters. I'm on Cannith though, standards may be lower here.

PS. I do see a few Archer builds get into Shroud runs on Cannith. some folks set them on the crystal in Part 2 instead of a caster.

[californiapiper]

Put up your very own Shroud LFM all things solved, seriously that is the best way!
Do it today you'll be happy you did

I have been having problems getting into Vale raids with my 19 Arcane Archer. It seems I got rejected because:

1) HP is too low - 318 with 20 con with evasion and reflex of 27, unbuffed
2) I don't have vorpal weapons (does slayer arrows count? )
3) I am an deepwood sniper (respecced to arcane yesterday) and deepwoods are weak
4) I am an arcane archer and I draw aggro due to high DPS
5) I don't have melee boss beaters (even though I got a +4 Metalline Longbow of Pure Good with Frost and Force Critcal)

I done everything I could to beef up HP and even respecced to Arcane (was hoping for some deepwood upgrade, never came) and yet I still got refused entry.

Some are kind enough to tell what I need to beef up while others are plain insulting. Saw a Shroud raid group advertise, "No Arcane Archers!" the other day, and I thought here is my chance since I was still Deepwood then. I applied and he asked if I was an Arcane Archer, I replied, "Nope, Deepwood Sniper =)".

After some time, I receive notice I was declined. I asked the leader "Worried I might draw aggro by doing too much damage?", he replied, "nope, deepwood are too weak." Sigh...

Now that I am respecced to Arcane and boosted my hp a little to 318 with +2 con tome, I wonder if things will change?

And to the issue of me not having melee boss beaters, can I make up for it by getting into melee range and fire away with my ranged boss beater? I know the theory is that it is for the convenience of the healers to cast mass heals on those meleeing the boss so technically by getting in close and shooting my slayer arrows, I can overcome the need for melee boss beaters? I might do slower hits than melees but with Manyshot I should make up for it right?

I know I am ranting a little and I have a lot of questions but I do hope for some guidance here so that I can see where I can improve or make myself more useful in raids. It sucks to be refused for raids when you bought the pack specifically for the raids and for the chance to craft greensteel weapons.

[kcalbyz]

If you have a metalline of pure good bow and silver arrows, you dont need the silver bow. Although, the silver bow will outdps your current bow easily enough.

I use the Silver bow mainly for mobs and boss with silver/cold iron arrows. I wiped out the Metalline when nothing seems to work like when I come across adamantine DR for some constructs. I actually have a bow of Greater Construct Bane though

[kcalbyz]

Replying to Mjoll

- vorpals for trash mobs (slayer arrow counts?) not really, most raid trash mobs don't die from 1 or even 2 slayer arrows, dual vorpals > slayer arrows vs. raid trash mobs

okay will look out for vorpals...I am going broke just getting the metalline PG melee weapons so might take a while...

- a silver bow + silver arrows for bosses (done with a +4 Met. of PG Bow as backup) other than higher base damage the silver bow has the advantage of having double critical threat range and since Arraetrikos has 50% fort on normal difficulty you might score more crits with it but a metalline of pure good bow is fine too

Yep noted I did some Crits on Arrae so I know it works.

- heavy fort item (Deathblock Robe of Heavy Fort.) get the minos helm, the 20 hp on it stacks with everything (if you dont have the orchard pack buy the taps from the AH, buy a 30 min pack for the orchard and then it only takes 1 min to turn in the taps and get the helm)

Can't find a 30 min pack and all I see are guest pass for other adventure pack but not Necro 4. I can't use a guest pass unless someone send one to me right? Thinking of getting a False Life item to make up for the 20 hp till I can craft an equivalent GS helm.

[kcalbyz]

Your heavy fort item should be Minos Legens from Necro 4 until you can craft a shroud item. This helm also gives +20 HPs.

Do you have the Argonnessen favor to tier 2? Another 10hps.

Greensteel items can give you another +45HPs.

That's the only issue I see, and even then you're an archer, the point is to stay well outside melée damage range.

Like A_D said if a group needs the 'perfect' party to complete Shroud then they ain't gonna complete anyways.

No Minos Legen since I don't have the pack.

Got the Draconic Vitality with +10 hp....included in the 318 HP. My stats are here:

http://my.ddo.com/character/orien/zyblack/

Yeah thinking of forgoing my GS Bow and go for a GS Helm with the HP bonus. Does the +1 to +3 Con bonus stack or just the HP bonus will stack?

[Daehawk]

Can't find a 30 min pack and all I see are guest pass for other adventure pack but not Necro 4. I can't use a guest pass unless someone send one to me right? Thinking of getting a False Life item to make up for the 20 hp till I can craft an equivalent GS helm.

Guest passes for packs you don't have you have to acquire from someone else. False Life item, Toughness Item, and Shroud HP Items all stack together.

If you get Greater False Life Item +30 HP
Add that to Toughness from Minos gives you another 20 to make it +50 HP
Make a Shroud HP item for another 45 that's +95 hp there.