AC, how much do you need?

[Yargore]

I know, you either go with 0, or you focus a lot on it.

You have been misinformed.

But how much do you need?

Around 55+ for current endgame quests.

[Yargore]

under 75-80 at end game is as good as 14.

lol. What game are you playing?
Not DDO, that's for sure.

[spyderwolf]

55-60+ self buff for end game trash mobs is more than enough, 65-70+ self buff for end game raid bosses.

ive tanked horoth on elite with a pure fighter with a 78 twf ac,537 hp. with 4 people beating on his back. towards the end of part 3 i even turned CE off and swapped to PA and dropped to 73 and was fine, on elite.

[valorik]

you don't need 80+ unless you're tanking a raid boss on hard or elite.

I was main takning horoth with a 75 ac on my pally (we were short a bard, and he's not fully equipped yet), and he was missing me 1/2 the time, granted he was debuffed as he can get.

[Shade]

AC is balanced for the maximum values.

Why? Because if they didn't, people at the maximum would be invincible and find the game a total joke.

Max AC is 130+

You honestly believe having over 50 points less then that will have a big impact endgame? Really?

[Shade]

I was main takning horoth with a 75 ac on my pally (we were short a bard, and he's not fully equipped yet), and he was missing me 1/2 the time, granted he was debuffed as he can get.

He was missing you 20% because of concealment. maybe another 10% because of AC.
His to-hit values on normal are at least +70.

And aside from that, tanking him on a ac build is a total waste of resources. You'll require way more healing then a Barbarian does as you dps too slow and the DoTs do heavy damage no matter what your ac.

[Absolute-Omniscience]

AC is balanced for the maximum values.

Why? Because if they didn't, people at the maximum would be invincible and find the game a total joke.

Max AC is 130+

You honestly believe having over 50 points less then that will have a big impact endgame? Really?

Failsauce 2000, you know nothing of what you speak. (Obviously, as you only play a barb)

He was missing you 20% because of concealment. maybe another 10% because of AC.
His to-hit values on normal are at least +70.

And aside from that, tanking him on a ac build is a total waste of resources. You'll require way more healing then a Barbarian does as you dps too slow and the DoTs do heavy damage no matter what your ac.

Wrong!
And wrong!

I've kept tanks alive with my free CLW ALONE on my FS, don't tell me that costs more than a barb, because you know nothing of what you speak.

I've ended multiple tod runs with over 2k sp left on my FS, with 2 healers and an AC tank.


OP:
Aim for ~55+ ac and you'll be happy.

[Quikster]

He was missing you 20% because of concealment. maybe another 10% because of AC.
His to-hit values on normal are at least +70.

And aside from that, tanking him on a ac build is a total waste of resources. You'll require way more healing then a Barbarian does as you dps too slow and the DoTs do heavy damage no matter what your ac.

Huh? No this is incorrect. At 75 ac a lot of incoming hits are wiffs. We use an ac tank 95% of the time and its a lot easier. Having someone constantly spam heal is a waste of resources. Barbs take a ton of damage in there. Is it possible to have a barb tank in ToD? Sure. Its not my preferred method though.

[Zenako]

Echoing the mid 50's spot to shoot for. For the vast majority of mobs you will face, that will have value. Fighting an Elite End Game Raid boss you will need more to be effective, but for all encounters short of that, it will matter.

Keep the context of the answers in mind. For some players the only thing that matters to them is being able to beat the Toughest End Game Raid Bosses, everything else is noise along the way. So for them if the build does not fully support that singular goal, it is pointless.

On the other hand, MOST players do not spend all their time fighting those Raid Bosses, so the other 95% of the mobs in the game DO matter, and for those, viable non gimping your build AC's can be acheived.

Also with grazing hits introduced, it is not as clear cut where the line needs to be drawn. Even the grazing damage from some mobs is nothing to be ignored, and since those hit regardless of your AC, the benefits of being hit only on 20's is now replaced with hit on 20's but also grazed on more swings. Vs some combo of hits and grazes down to the minimum graze number of the quest setting. Extensive threads were posted on this whole concept during the beta testing, and the developers kept changing the grazing mechanics right up until release likely based on much of the feedback.

[Shade]

Huh? No this is incorrect. At 75 ac a lot of incoming hits are wiffs. We use an ac tank 95% of the time and its a lot easier. Having someone constantly spam heal is a waste of resources. Barbs take a ton of damage in there. Is it possible to have a barb tank in ToD? Sure. Its not my preferred method though.

"Allot" "allot" of players stay purposely vague when they have no idea what there talking about. I had a guy tank with 85 AC on hard the other day, he got destroyed.

If someone doesn't constantly spam heals/repairs on the tank, regardless of his AC. He's dead. DoTs and Meteor swarm damage you no matter how uber you are. So I guess your prefered way to do it is just let the tanks die.

Also "waste of resouces" is a pretty poor excuse to do use barbarians. They are way more reliable, and the resource cost for a good one tanking is far less then what you make from selling the junk from the raid itself. Generally 0 pots and less then 100 scroll, so less then 13kpp, less then what a single player loots from the raid on the way. I'd argue that every single time your groups used AC tanks, they used MORE resources then mine with Barbarian tanks, because of the big waste of time you had to do to build up agro, or just generally low DPS composition of your group. We kill him in 2-3 minuits on hard on average. You take 10 minuits. Add it up.

Also over 90% of elite completion have been tanked by what class? (take a look at all the screenshots on the forums)
I rest my case.

[FluffyCalico]

Max AC is 130+

You honestly believe having over 50 points less then that will have a big impact endgame? Really?

Hm 130-50=80...am I missing something or is this shade math because 80 ac is great for anything on normal and all but 1-2 bosses on elite and is useful for them even on elite.

[Absolute-Omniscience]

Hm 130-50=80...am I missing something or is this shade math because 80 ac is great for anything on normal and all but 1-2 bosses on elite and is useful for them even on elite.

It's Shade Math.

[Diarden1]

A lot of misinformation here, and its quite comical.

First off, Shade needs to stop. He's trolling, and just bad at it. Stop fueling his fire.

If you want a reliable AC for tanking instances, 50-60 will do you fine. Even in the vale, it will get you by without taking too much damage. When you get to Devils Battlefield, you will need 70+ AC to be truly effective (ability to solo with self heals). If you want to survive tanking high end bosses, I would suggest 85+ AC. Is it possible to do and still deal damage? absolutely.

If you wish to play a tank, you need to realize that it is super gear intensive. If you truly want a great tank with high AC and hp, and still be able to dish out some serious damage, be ready for a lot of farming. It is possible to have the best of all three worlds, and the build I use does it.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...candy+mountain

I use Candy's build and it works super well. High damage, one of the highest AC's, high hp and the ability to intimidate endgame bosses and heal yourself with reconstruct scrolls. Evasion is also a plus (although I see my reflex is not as high as it should be for endgame) but for the most part, this build will get you through pretty much everything.

To the rest of you spouting a bunch of propaganda, if you don't know what you're doing, don't give advice.

[Wyrmnax]

Heh, im am not planning to make a AC tank. Not yet at least.

I just wanted to know how much AC was needed so i didnt get hit on a 2 by everything on the game. Now i know i should be aiming for the 50s.

[Visty]

under 75-80 at end game is as good as 14.

that is so wrong, i dont even know how to correct it

[Zenako]

Heh, im am not planning to make a AC tank. Not yet at least.

I just wanted to know how much AC was needed so i didnt get hit on a 2 by everything on the game. Now i know i should be aiming for the 50s.

The nice thing about shooting for the 50's is that you can get there by a number of different ways. You can be a fighter with a moderate DEX and Mithril Full Plate and Shield and CE and do it without much problem. You can be a Paladin. You can take a High DEX character and Armor Bracers (or the same effect). You can combine classes with synergy and hit those marks. None of those require an overt singlemindedness to achieve, and all have significant value while playing your way up to the highest level quests.

[Mical]

AC Thread: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=205669

Quote:
Originally Posted by sirgog
AC at current endgame:

<50 - near to useless on all difficulties
51-54 - modest reduction in incoming melee damage on normal only
55-58 - modest reduction on hard difficulty, significant reduction on normal
59-62 - Modest reduction on elite, significant on hard, near-invulnerability to all save raid bosses on normal
63-66 - significant reduction in incoming melee damage on elite, near invulnerability to melee damage on all other foes save Hard difficulty raid bosses
67-70 - Excellent damage mitigation on all save Elite Vod, Elite Hound, Elite Shroud
80+ - Near invulnerability to melee damage on all elite content.


i think this is pretty reasonable...
except it needs to be a little bit higher for each tier of raid bosses

[Gunga]

AC Thread: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=205669
i think this is pretty reasonable...
except it needs to be a little bit higher for each tier of raid bosses

Great resource. Thanks.

[Dark-Star]

Sadly, in elite level content, the new end game frontier, high AC is meaningless.