Explain why you think Monk DPS isn't good

[Kaboth]

lol

I might be wrong, but I think you might be mocking me, but its true, and there have been good tanks in there that I draw agro from, since using diplo, I draw tons less agro from the MT. I doubt anyone would beleive me as much negative press Monks get, and I have TOO much on my plate to take the time and video it and post it.

Both Sulu and Harry are immune to Curse effects including Healing Curse

I can not comment further on this currently in game, because its true, for now...BUT they can be Eagle Clawed and Unbalancing Striked.

Using a Ki strike does not give you 'an extra attack' (above the 10 you get from gtwf) - it just adds the Ki damage to your next attack.

Are you absolutely sure on this, because, I turn on auto attack, and spam/mash my special attacks and the sequence loks like an extra attack.

Monks vs non DR mobs using good handwraps can be very very good DPS - problem is the DR (as other posters have already said).

Garth

With that said, as I said, with monks its not ALL about the DPS. Quick example, would you rather have an arcane/divine caster with all nuke spells loaded and never any cures/buff spells OR would you rather have a caster with at least a decent mix up?

[Aranticus]

I might be wrong, but I think you might be mocking me, but its true, and there have been good tanks in there that I draw agro from, since using diplo, I draw tons less agro from the MT. I doubt anyone would beleive me as much negative press Monks get, and I have TOO much on my plate to take the time and video it and post it.

there are basically 3 types of tanks in vod

1. ranger monks with 80 ac twf - unless they have a 10 str, it can be hard for a monk to pull agro off them, possible reason? couple of lightning strikes

2. snb melees with 70+ ac - snb, possibly with CE up. 1 weapon vs 2 weapons. go figure

3. hp melees - thf or twf with PA up, almost impossible to lose agro unless suulo just reappear, or lightning strikes

my fighter has 40 raid buff str, full weapon spec, bloodstone, goggles, haste boost, dual min 2 khopeshes. when raid buffed, my base number is in the 40s, crits can top 150 (before weapon effects). i seldom lose agro when i'm twf. against sally, i may lose agro becoz i'm in snb mode with CE instead of PA. else you can try pull agro off me

[Kaboth]

there are basically 3 types of tanks in vod

1. ranger monks with 80 ac twf - unless they have a 10 str, it can be hard for a monk to pull agro off them, possible reason? couple of lightning strikes

2. snb melees with 70+ ac - snb, possibly with CE up. 1 weapon vs 2 weapons. go figure

3. hp melees - thf or twf with PA up, almost impossible to lose agro unless suulo just reappear, or lightning strikes

my fighter has 40 raid buff str, full weapon spec, bloodstone, goggles, haste boost, dual min 2 khopeshes. when raid buffed, my base number is in the 40s, crits can top 150 (before weapon effects). i seldom lose agro when i'm twf. against sally, i may lose agro becoz i'm in snb mode with CE instead of PA. else you can try pull agro off me

Its only my word and observations, but on Suul, many times I have seen the curse on my head and the tanks head and no one elses, which to me indicates he atleast turned his attention to me for a brief duration enough to hit and curse me and beats the heck out of me until the tank Intim's and/or I diplo. FYI his diplo number is around 43-ish.

My little bear is up, and Poppa bear has to go feed and entertain him. He turns two on Saturday.

[Aranticus]

Its only my word and observations, but on Suul, many times I have seen the curse on my head and the tanks head and no one elses, which to me indicates he atleast turned his attention to me for a brief duration enough to hit and curse me and beats the heck out of me until the tank Intim's and/or I diplo. FYI his diplo number is around 43-ish.

My little bear is up, and Poppa bear has to go feed and entertain him. He turns two on Saturday.

even better, it just means you are standing in the wrong position. if you stand slightly to suulo's left or right you can still get hit by him

no fail intim on suulo is a 56. you get a -4 size penalty

[Kaboth]

even better, it just means you are standing in the wrong position. if you stand slightly to suulo's left or right you can still get hit by him

no fail intim on suulo is a 56. you get a -4 size penalty

You assume I dont know that, but I try to stand his back, direct back, but it still happens, and I am not intimidating Sulo, Diplomacy. Which I am certain is a different target number.

[Aranticus]

You assume I dont know that, but I try to stand his back, direct back, but it still happens, and I am not intimidating Sulo, Diplomacy. Which I am certain is a different target number.

you can get alot of feedback and opinions from many sources and i'm sure that most will agree with me. its not that i look down on monks or on you but it is very hard to believe your monk can out dps a tank with hits of 25ish (when a good tank will do 30-60ish) to grab agro. sure there can be senarios of pulling agro and i have seen them

1. multiple lightning strikes
2. crit double smites
3. multishot
4. unbridled twf with PA up
5. tank not in full dps mode

if your situation doesnt involve one of these, it is very unbelieveable

[Enochroot]

Its only my word and observations, but on Suul, many times I have seen the curse on my head and the tanks head and no one elses, which to me indicates he atleast turned his attention to me for a brief duration enough to hit and curse me and beats the heck out of me until the tank Intim's and/or I diplo. FYI his diplo number is around 43-ish.

My little bear is up, and Poppa bear has to go feed and entertain him. He turns two on Saturday.

You assume I dont know that, but I try to stand his back, direct back, but it still happens, and I am not intimidating Sulo, Diplomacy. Which I am certain is a different target number.

You're great. We KNOW you don't know that, because if he turned around, OTHER people would get cursed too. By saying no one else got cursed you're actually damaging your position. ESPECIALLY because with what your saves should be you should be one of the hardest to curse.

Based on your OWN comment, we can assume you didn't pull aggro onto the group.

[Kaboth]

You're great. We KNOW you don't know that, because if he turned around, OTHER people would get cursed too. By saying no one else got cursed you're actually damaging your position. ESPECIALLY because with what your saves should be you should be one of the hardest to curse.

Based on your OWN comment, we can assume you didn't pull aggro onto the group.

Did you EVER think..... quite possibly the others DIED when he turned on them... after that I wont reply to any more comments by you as crude and dull witted.

[Aranticus]

Did you EVER think..... quite possibly the others DIED when he turned on them... after that I wont reply to any more comments by you as crude and dull witted.

what i can quite possibly think of is someone else actually pulled the agro off the main tank, they died and the agro probably bounced to you as you landed the 1st blow. once the tank get a few hits of, the agro went back to the tank

[Enochroot]

what i can quite possibly think of is someone else actually pulled the agro off the main tank, they died and the agro probably bounced to you as you landed the 1st blow. once the tank get a few hits of, the agro went back to the tank

This dude is nuts, and clearly incorrect.

His first statement was "he turned for a split second and just cursed me" - and now it's "everyone else around me died" - lol, sully does damage when he turns around ... but you ever see him simply wipe a whole party in a split second? And this is without cursing anyone else? Just killing them outright?

Just say it Kaboth - your monk is a hero in your mind's eye and there's no other way it could possibly be.

[NXPlasmid]

there are basically 3 types of tanks in vod

1. ranger monks with 80 ac twf - unless they have a 10 str, it can be hard for a monk to pull agro off them, possible reason? couple of lightning strikes

2. snb melees with 70+ ac - snb, possibly with CE up. 1 weapon vs 2 weapons. go figure

3. hp melees - thf or twf with PA up, almost impossible to lose agro unless suulo just reappear, or lightning strikes

my fighter has 40 raid buff str, full weapon spec, bloodstone, goggles, haste boost, dual min 2 khopeshes. when raid buffed, my base number is in the 40s, crits can top 150 (before weapon effects). i seldom lose agro when i'm twf. against sally, i may lose agro becoz i'm in snb mode with CE instead of PA. else you can try pull agro off me

I honestly don't think that any of these are "average builds" and yours is certainly not. Your fighter is a highly tuned and equiped with most of the key raid items. I wish any of my toons were as well set up as that. I don't think most players have that level of build and so while I agree that Monks probably won't compare all that well super twinked to super twinked verses other melee classes, the reality is most builds are somewhere in the middle and a resonable monk build isn't going to lag behind by more than 5 or 10% from the general population.

I would also like to say how delighted I am with this thread and the civility of everyone for most part, especially in light of how easiliy things can get out of hand. I think the information here is really useful to anyone building any class. I am definitely learning a lot! Thanks again to everyone!

[Aranticus]

I honestly don't think that any of these are "average builds" and yours is certainly not. Your fighter is a highly tuned and equiped with most of the key raid items. I wish any of my toons were as well set up as that. I don't think most players have that level of build and so while I agree that Monks probably won't compare all that well super twinked to super twinked verses other melee classes, the reality is most builds are somewhere in the middle and a resonable monk build isn't going to lag behind by more than 5 or 10% from the general population.

this is precisely what i'm trying to get at. people tanking suulo are likely to be super twinked (or at least quite twinked). this is what the OP stated

Maybe I am missing something. But I hit Suul and Harry with my fist 16 to 25 even with DR (on normal) and my crit numbers are in to 60 to 80's then add the fact I use GEOB.

I cant tell you how many times I go in to VOD and I pull agro off the main tank

to suggest that he can steal agro from a highly twinked character, that does 30-60 on a normal hit, crits of 100-200, without the interference of any of the conditions which i listed is quite laughable

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

there are basically 3 types of tanks in vod

1. ranger monks with 80 ac twf - unless they have a 10 str, it can be hard for a monk to pull agro off them, possible reason? couple of lightning strikes

2. snb melees with 70+ ac - snb, possibly with CE up. 1 weapon vs 2 weapons. go figure

3. hp melees - thf or twf with PA up, almost impossible to lose agro unless suulo just reappear, or lightning strikes

my fighter has 40 raid buff str, full weapon spec, bloodstone, goggles, haste boost, dual min 2 khopeshes. when raid buffed, my base number is in the 40s, crits can top 150 (before weapon effects). i seldom lose agro when i'm twf. against sally, i may lose agro becoz i'm in snb mode with CE instead of PA. else you can try pull agro off me

You're forgetting most self-respecting S&B tanks will have the lorik's set - at least 2 parts if not all 3 parts of it, and thus be getting a lot more hate generation. That makes up for the S&B dps when it comes to holding Sulu's agro.

Garth

[Vivanto]

You're forgetting most self-respecting S&B tanks will have the lorik's set - at least 2 parts if not all 3 parts of it, and thus be getting a lot more hate generation. That makes up for the S&B dps when it comes to holding Sulu's agro.

Garth

A s&b tank with only 2 parts of the set is just gimping himself. Now all 3 items, that's a different story, still 1 less ac but at that point a worthy tradeoff.

btw it's levik's.

[Alavatar]

A s&b tank with only 2 parts of the set is just gimping himself. Now all 3 items, that's a different story, still 1 less ac but at that point a worthy tradeoff.

btw it's levik's.

You guys must run with some elite fellows if having these RAID items is standard issue equipment and that not having them is akin to gimping your character.

My poor Fighter is still attempting to gear up. Still have a lot of work to do and it will probably not be nearly complete once Mod9 hits. Especially since I have grown bored of the game recently...

[SableShadow]

and that not having them is akin to gimping your character.

Didn't you get the memo? Not Best Spec (NBS) = GIMP

Also, D&D is the work of Satan (but only 4th Ed).

[Vivanto]

You guys must run with some elite fellows if having these RAID items is standard issue equipment and that not having them is akin to gimping your character.

My poor Fighter is still attempting to gear up. Still have a lot of work to do and it will probably not be nearly complete once Mod9 hits. Especially since I have grown bored of the game recently...

Erm you read it the other way, NOT having them is the good thing. If you equip it that means you can't use chaosguard which is better ac than the set, even with all 3 items.

It's pretty lame that a level 9 loot item is better than you get from a lvl 18 raid, but seems you didn't know that.

[Aranticus]

You guys must run with some elite fellows if having these RAID items is standard issue equipment and that not having them is akin to gimping your character.

My poor Fighter is still attempting to gear up. Still have a lot of work to do and it will probably not be nearly complete once Mod9 hits. Especially since I have grown bored of the game recently...

you dun really need to be elite people to think of them as a standard issue. obtaining the gear for a SnB toon can be quite easy these days thanks to how raid loot and crafting gear is assigned

shroud runs in general drop 1.5 large ingredients per run and to make a minII with insight +4, you will need 24 larges = 16 runs

DT armor just need 1 run of prey, kobold, monastry, sos. the tough part is for the leviks or +3 dodge rune but these are gravy

chaosgarde can be easily found in AH or farming xorian 10 times will likely net you 1-2 gardes, 1 belt

leviks shield can be easily obtained in 20 runs and considering how quick the run is, it is not difficult to get 20 runs

i'm not saying that its darn easy to get. what i'm saying is you can be a regular player and probably run these quest once or twice a week and within 10 weeks (3 months to be more lenient) one can have a toon with high AC

that said, my fighter is quite highly twinked but that is not because its due to meeting that high AC but rather attempting to max both AC, DPS as well as survivability. just think, raid buffed AC in 70s in SnB mode, max DPS with bloodstone tharnes goggles in TWF mode, 60 intimidate. to focus on a single area is not hard, to perform 2 or more roles is

[Aranticus]

You're forgetting most self-respecting S&B tanks will have the lorik's set - at least 2 parts if not all 3 parts of it, and thus be getting a lot more hate generation. That makes up for the S&B dps when it comes to holding Sulu's agro.

Garth

my fighter's ac is in the 70s range which happens to be in the d20 range of suulo. each point of AC is important. i prefer the shroud insight + chaosgarde combo of +6 ac over the 3 piece levik +5 insight. come next mod, it will be different

[Vivanto]

my fighter's ac is in the 70s range which happens to be in the d20 range of suulo. each point of AC is important. i prefer the shroud insight + chaosgarde combo of +6 ac over the 3 piece levik +5 insight. come next mod, it will be different

That's what I tried to tell for which they called me an elitist