Monsters and mobs, A future glimpse

[Furbitor]

I wonder what we have in store for us in the future. I can see the past and understand what I can grasp, but the feeling I get when I look at mods past is 50% patches, and some new content, cut with dungeons/ monsters.

This ratio doesn't seem to hold true tho, as the amount of actual new creatures brought into the game are few and far apart.

For purposes of this thread, I hereby deem all copied meshes, no matter how scaled, to be 1 creature.

for instance, all hellhounds and anything that LOOKS like a hell hound is a freaking hell hound NO MATTER ITS NAME OR STATS.

Reasons are it takes no extra programming time to "borrow" an existing mesh and animation sequence, not to mention textures and skins from a mappers point of veiw, and I want to discuss actual new creatures that need new meshes and animation scripts.

in order to keep DDO to the forefront of new content... we should be seeing 10-20 new creatures per year.

Much like the razor cats was brought backwards into old content.. and bats replaced slimes... new creatures should be introduced backwards.. to boost replay value.

I foresee the death of the static mobs except for the quest required bosses. Mobs should be randomed, and give a new feeling to playing the quest each time you enter.

Random rares will get its own topic someday.

Furb

[Rabbi_Hordo]

/signed

[Furbitor]

If future mappers who flesh out our new content really want to get spontaneous, how about getting on the band wagon and introduce multiple spawn points for mobs in quest/adventure areas?

I already know the scripting is done in the random static rares in adventure areas and in quests. How many times have you hunted for Muck?

Put it to use with regular mobs as well.

What this will do, each and every time you enter a new quest, or instance, is provide a completely different battle ground for you to enjoy. Imagine going into STK and not knowing exactly what is going to be around the corner, nor how many mobs.

I foresee a jump in popularity of the game when players are pleasantly surprised than constantly disappointed. Being able to have a fluid environment in-quest can only boost replay value of said quest.

My ideas are easy. They use common tools already in-game, and if started now, will allow all future quests to be easily modified and upgraded with a minimum of coding.

Take for instance a level 6 quest on hard... the game dev working on this map wants it to be soo difficult... so as to have "X" amount of mobs, of "A, B, C" types thru the map. So much like the loot table we have now we should have a creature table.

Because the instance is generated, a random static boss table already exists(muck), So if the game can do that, it can be made do what I foresee. When you enter the quest, on hard, say 83 mobs of 3 creature types are randomly pulled off this table. W ether be casters or not, these creatures are randomly placed (filled) throughout the map, in quantities and types dictated by the quest.

I foresee devs will be able to add new creatures to the master creature table, and when adding new creatures back into older content is as easy as changing the quests parameters on the new creature types to the table.

Poof! Now we can see mobs of whatever type where we had none before.

Quantities of mobs can be regulated easily, types of mobs are regulated easily, ease of backward modding older quests and random placements ensures a fresh new perspective each time we play a quest.

Wouldn't you guys for once like to see a mini beholder (appropriate level) in water-works?

We should have a great amount of monsters available to plug into the quests while keeping true to quest themes... (Cabal for one, Feast of famine, trial by fire)
making spawn points with static mobs takes more programming, as the creature types, quantities, and stats must be selected. These can remain, as they are needed for quest objectives. So actually having the quest instance generate the mobs out of parameters selected by the devs will give us those random creatures.

and if patrolling mobs are needed.. bot pathing can always be added, as it is already in use.

[Furbitor]

Sigh. I guess no one But Hordo or myself has the desire or courage to battle different monsters unexpectedly.

Chicken?

C'mon, people! Yes it might be the downfall of the "loot run", but really, since when did grinding out Trial by Fire become passe'? I mean it lost all quantity for fun like somewhere in the 10-20th run thru it, as I stare at exactly the same mobs.. run exactly the same path, cast exactly the same spell, and loot the same chests.

BORING!!!!!! I don't care it can be done in 2 mins. all your after is a end chest. I can only hope a dev will push to place in all future maps multiple spawn points throughout all new maps to allow for a dynamic shift in quest gameplay.

If only we could get random maps to go with random mobs and random rares... we would SHUT DOWN the WOW servers.. DDO would be the goto game and pull in the bucks!!

but this is my view. I want to hear from you people. Tell me you aren't scared to lose your loot run.... or are you?

[JayDubya]

I support the idea of more randomness in the dungeons, more monsters, etc. Automatic /signed for me.

[Thrudh]

I want to see the AI Director and the zombie (or insert monster here) rushes from Left 4 Dead..

[DaggomaticDwarf]

I wonder how a game with all the technical advancement like DDO can't add things like Random spawns, true crafting, and housing? I mean I played an old outdated MMo called UO for years and they did all that and even had cute lil rideable horsies to boot

[ArkoHighStar]

I wonder how a game with all the technical advancement like DDO can't add things like Random spawns, true crafting, and housing? I mean I played an old outdated MMo called UO for years and they did all that and even had cute lil rideable horsies to boot

Because it was built fro mthe ground up that way, and it was also the devs focus, not rewriting the game mechanics every 6-9 months like we do here.

[DaggomaticDwarf]

Does that mean "WE" are doing it the right way or ....?

[Cendaer]

Sigh. I guess no one But Hordo or myself has the desire or courage to battle different monsters unexpectedly.

You are not alone.

I certainly agree that we need to see a wider variety of monsters, but I'm hoping they leave that on their 'to-do' list until after we have 20 full levels of advancement for all existing classes. IMO, once they've completed that task, they'll have completed the skeleton upon which they can continue to build, and enhance, a great game. Once 20 levels of character progression are basically in place, the development of overall game enhancements should begin in earnest.

I'm looking forward to the days that we will see not only a wider variety of monsters, but also a lot of the more 'fluffier' aspects of persistant MMORPG's. There's no denying that a LOT can be done with this game, a careful observer (much like yourself) can already see a lot of potential that already exists in this game, not to mention what could be added to the game in the future.

[William_the_Bat]

How many people actually run the wizard king anymore except for favor?

Yeah, it used to be the premier loot run, and people would go in all the time and the semi-random nature meant that, despite having the general plan down to a science, actually running it varied from instance to instance.

How cool was that? Apparently not cool enough to do it again.

[Furbitor]

How many people actually run the wizard king anymore except for favor?

Yeah, it used to be the premier loot run, and people would go in all the time and the semi-random nature meant that, despite having the general plan down to a science, actually running it varied from instance to instance.

How cool was that? Apparently not cool enough to do it again.

therein lies the problem. the devs arent mapping properly. they take great ideas and let them wither on the vine because "it took too long" or difficulty.. but...

If they was to make all new maps created with random spawnpoints, that are populated off of a monster table... filtered by the designing dev... and future monster additions will not mean the total recompliation of the entire map file but of the filters for the master monster table.

the monsters are now randomized and quantities set by the dev.

viola!

to make this work going forward, all devs need to start peppering spawnpoints thru out the new content.

[Vivanto]

Sigh. I guess no one But Hordo or myself has the desire or courage to battle different monsters unexpectedly.

Not to ruin it for you, but simply the way most dungeons are currently set it dosen't make any sense to have any monster type be randomly replaced every instance you create.

For example, lets see the pit, what we got there, trogs and oozes. How would a devil look like in there, what on earth would it even do there lol. I mean, it's just a friggin sewer, nobody lives there for crying out loud, couldn't even say orcs or trolls could make much sense in it.

This goes the other way, let's do VoD, devils and orthons, ofcourse what else could poor Sally call to help him? Humans or Ogres? Sure as we get more subtype introduced I do expect to put them in, that should work. Like a couple Hezrou in Shroud/VoD would be cool.

But nothing major could be done about it else the quests would break in terms of roleplay and story. The oozes -> bats conversion didn't make any sense either, but oozes in a catacomb didn't make much sense in the first place.

That being said, I'm all up for a change like that, as long as it's a sane decision not just a throw everything in and see what happens random monster thingy. Only prob is that the possibilities with this filter are very small.

edit:
got a few places where it's partially already present, rainbow : either elementals or rusties, or mix of both.

[RigorAdar]

First, as to Wiz King I run it when leveling up, but most don't because compared to GH the XP is on the low side and it difficulty is greater. The named loot that drops from there has lost its luster after a few mods, so people now just run it to reflag for DQ.

Second, I would love mobs to spawn randomly in dungeons and named mobs to roam about. Though I don't think it would be as easy to program as some are making it out to be. Trying to balance out a dungeon when mob spawn in random locations could be quite tricky when you take into account shrine locations. Encounter sizes also would dramatically change difficulty; consider how quickly mobs go down 6 on 1 vs. how quick it is to take out a room of 10.

Third, random types of mobs I'm not so sure of. Most quests have a specific type(s) of mob that go with the story line. If your just talking about a random encounter or two with in the quest then it would be fantastic.

[Furbitor]

Because it was built from the ground up that way, and it was also the devs focus, not rewriting the game mechanics every 6-9 months like we do here.

Just like your always fond of saying. How about for once you focus on something esle, the what if... so to speak.

Dismissing people's ideas is a terrible place to be... and just because that the way its done is how it shall always be is a horrible life choice, I pity you.

I choose to shoot for the stars, free the health care system from the politicians, Improve the life of all over the few.

I want gamers in DDO to enjoy every single run they make each day they play it. I want to see it new and fresh, exciting...

And without a single complaint, I can also help the devs make this dream a reality. Guidance I'll give, tho they may not take.... Showing how a simple task in the beginning can help the path of upgrades for the future is HUGE!!! Simple adding Stupid Spawnpoints. They dont even have to create the master monster table now.. simply laying the ground work now will give a strong foundation for a future release.

Yes the engine we play on is a instance based code. However!! it is not the ONLY code!

Turbine has in its arsenal a engine that is fully capable of delivering large massive open areas and huge populations. it also supports guilds crafting and pets...

Guess what Arko? wanna bet its run on the same coding? the Turbine assembly language, or what ever the monkier it has? Look it up on the turbine website. they tout how flexible the engine can be.

Well, I got a surprise for you. What makes you think for one moment that DDO cannot use 2 engines? Just because it wasnt intended to run this way, think about this, if the intentions of the original DDO team was to have instanced quests... then they done a great job. But turbine has a terrible time getting around high populations in on area. our engine creates more instances to balance the load out between the varoius servers.

But if turbine was to add the Engine for LOTRO into our comps, and when you "load into" a public areas or adventure areas" you actually "log into" the appropriate server running the LOtro engine. Your client software will use the appropriate engine, giving you nearly seamless play. as currently we have to log/load into every area we go.

It is not impossible. It is very probable. and it can be done. If someone asks for it.
If someone dreams for it.

And if turbine even cares.

[Furbitor]

Not to ruin it for you, but simply the way most dungeons are currently set it dosen't make any sense to have any monster type be randomly replaced every instance you create.

For example, lets see the pit, what we got there, trogs and oozes. How would a devil look like in there, what on earth would it even do there lol. I mean, it's just a friggin sewer, nobody lives there for crying out loud, couldn't even say orcs or trolls could make much sense in it.

This goes the other way, let's do VoD, devils and orthons, ofcourse what else could poor Sally call to help him? Humans or Ogres? Sure as we get more subtype introduced I do expect to put them in, that should work. Like a couple Hezrou in Shroud/VoD would be cool.

But nothing major could be done about it else the quests would break in terms of roleplay and story. The oozes -> bats conversion didn't make any sense either, but oozes in a catacomb didn't make much sense in the first place.

That being said, I'm all up for a change like that, as long as it's a sane decision not just a throw everything in and see what happens random monster thingy. Only prob is that the possibilities with this filter are very small.

edit:
got a few places where it's partially already present, rainbow : either elementals or rusties, or mix of both.

Excellent points. Of course devils would be extremely stupid in the pit. I agree whole heartily. What you missed, was the "master monster table" much like the Master loot table we have now.

On this table is every creature in game, of every class, just as every item is in game, of every type. some are not allowed.

for instance. you cannot get higher than level 8 gear for a end reward out of the titan because the end loot is pulled off the table and has been filtered for set parameters. for instance I know think they pull the best collection of junk... but you wont find a masterwork wooden shield Lvl 0 in the reward list beacuse the parameters set by the dev who made it.

The same logic applies. there shall never be devil in the pit, unless the dev changes the parameter to allow them. The benefits are when a new sewer crawling creature is added to the game, all a dev has to do is enter the quest and alter the parameters for the table. DONE! no more does a dev have to completely recompile an entire quest to add a simple creature.

VOD is another example. Raids.. especially one room raids wont benefit any for have these spawn points. the Idea to to give randomness to the quest.. a not knowing whats next quality.

But adventure areas can benefit too from this use... static mobs makes me thing of poorly designed asian mmorgs.

and static mobs that spawn in the same place is even worse

[renegade117]

Bro,

U r the best! On the same train of thought, I think in the tween times of Mods, if would be easy to use the same maps for new quest. Imagine revisiting Giant Hold 2? Like a level 18 Trial by Fire... A troll king is back for revenge! Madstone... all the Mad Berserkers have been resurrected as undead because of the effects of the magic they succumbed to. Level 18 Berserkers! Fun! New effects from the Madstone Un-life! A blast! No new maps needed! Priceless!

[Slink]

Bro,

U r the best! On the same train of thought, I think in the tween times of Mods, if would be easy to use the same maps for new quest. Imagine revisiting Giant Hold 2? Like a level 18 Trial by Fire... A troll king is back for revenge! Madstone... all the Mad Berserkers have been resurrected as undead because of the effects of the magic they succumbed to. Level 18 Berserkers! Fun! New effects from the Madstone Un-life! A blast! No new maps needed! Priceless!

That could be harsh.
Think of all the undead Vikconis's running aroun...err wait, nevermind he is gimp alive or dead.
lol
I wonder if he would be a more powerful undead if he died while wearing multiple GS items...hmmm haha

S.

[shores11]

Sigh. I guess no one But Hordo or myself has the desire or courage to battle different monsters unexpectedly.

Chicken?

C'mon, people! Yes it might be the downfall of the "loot run", but really, since when did grinding out Trial by Fire become passe'? I mean it lost all quantity for fun like somewhere in the 10-20th run thru it, as I stare at exactly the same mobs.. run exactly the same path, cast exactly the same spell, and loot the same chests.

BORING!!!!!! I don't care it can be done in 2 mins. all your after is a end chest. I can only hope a dev will push to place in all future maps multiple spawn points throughout all new maps to allow for a dynamic shift in quest gameplay.

If only we could get random maps to go with random mobs and random rares... we would SHUT DOWN the WOW servers.. DDO would be the goto game and pull in the bucks!!

but this is my view. I want to hear from you people. Tell me you aren't scared to lose your loot run.... or are you?

/signed

Nice post I agree 100%

[Furbitor]

Bro,

U r the best! On the same train of thought, I think in the tween times of Mods, if would be easy to use the same maps for new quest. Imagine revisiting Giant Hold 2? Like a level 18 Trial by Fire... A troll king is back for revenge! Madstone... all the Mad Berserkers have been resurrected as undead because of the effects of the magic they succumbed to. Level 18 Berserkers! Fun! New effects from the Madstone Un-life! A blast! No new maps needed! Priceless!

Perfect example. If all the giant hold quests had random spawn points in the quests and areas, then to add "undead berserkers" to the maps would be as simple as altering the master monster list to add the undead creatures.. and then charge the parameters for the filter of said quest. done!

Minor work to add npc story changes notwithstanding... but the meat and potatoes are the mobs we face.

Another fine point is Scaling of Monsters. we have seen where turbine has scaled devils down to a level 6 rating. (guard barracks in mrktplace)

So why not see a level 4 beholder randomly show in one of the depths quests?
the filter can be used to allow for level and rating, type and class. good lord.

This should happen. All the games would copy this method. Royalties!!!