Why DDO is on a down ward spireral and how to fix it.

[BlackSteel]

Now take away shroud weapons and imagine if they were never introduced. Everyone is wielding a +5 weapon with some form of 1-2 enhancements. HPS would need to drop, and wounding would have been less of a priority, and likely the evolution of them in groups would have never been needed.

the random loot tables, even preshroud, has/had the opportunity to drop weapons capable of more damage than shroud craftables. Changing shroud weaponary in order to drop mob hp is silly; b/c those lucky few with high + holy greater banes, or element greater banes will rule the day instead.

the nice thing about shroud weapons is that they eliminate the need to carry buttloads of specific mob weapons, trading in a tiny bit of damage for those with uber weapons, and gaining a few points for those with less so uber.

there is a heavy grind associated with the shroud, might not be as noticable for some with multiple toons. But try grinding a tier 2 weapon with only a single character, and w/o trading or purchasing ingredients. The weapons are appropriate for the grind power level wise.

Furthermore, the whole argument that recent mob HP inflation is due to shroud weapons falls straight on its face by the simple fact that only a handfull of monsters recieved this increase. If shroud weapons were a serious consideration, then the kobolds and monks and all the other jazz besides the giants (and elementals in SoS) would have boosted HP.

[swooshrp]

Furthermore, the whole argument that recent mob HP inflation is due to shroud weapons falls straight on its face by the simple fact that only a handfull of monsters recieved this increase. If shroud weapons were a serious consideration, then the kobolds and monks and all the other jazz besides the giants (and elementals in SoS) would have boosted HP.

Those are trash mobs, which I addressed in that same post. Also those quests are a joke in terms of difficulty.

Look at VoD for one example.

[BlackSteel]

Those are trash mobs, which I addressed in that same post. Also those quests are a joke in terms of difficulty.

Look at VoD for one example.

Vod for an example of what? the devils are trash, as are the bats, and the orthons are meant to be minibosses, thus the high HP and red named immunities. Most people use vorpals on the devils, but they dont have near the HP of the giants or elementals released in the last mod. Frankly when faced with an elite devil in shroud or VoD, I prefer to switch to DPS if I know noone else will be swinging on it.

And you still ignored the fact that specialty random loot weapons can drop that beat shroud weaponary. The best thing about the shroud weapons is that they give effects not found anywhere else. Radiance for rogues, but guess thats not so important, b/c it only works on trash. Lit 2 is fun, but loses alot of effectiveness on difficulties higher than normal. Mineral 2 is a good all use weapon, but you lose out of 2 tiers of effects on some of the biggest monsters in the game due to acid resistance.

Shroud weapons enable more people to be competitve, instead of just those that are lucky or rich enough to afford crazy random loot greater banes.

If Prey and SoS are a joke in terms of difficulty, then theres really no issue with stat weapons, b/c in all the content before this last mod, con damage was not a necessity.

[swooshrp]

Vod for an example of what? the devils are trash, as are the bats, and the orthons are meant to be minibosses, thus the high HP and red named immunities. Most people use vorpals on the devils, but they dont have near the HP of the giants or elementals released in the last mod. Frankly when faced with an elite devil in shroud or VoD, I prefer to switch to DPS if I know noone else will be swinging on it.

And you still ignored the fact that specialty random loot weapons can drop that beat shroud weaponary. The best thing about the shroud weapons is that they give effects not found anywhere else. Radiance for rogues, but guess thats not so important, b/c it only works on trash. Lit 2 is fun, but loses alot of effectiveness on difficulties higher than normal. Mineral 2 is a good all use weapon, but you lose out of 2 tiers of effects on some of the biggest monsters in the game due to acid resistance.

Shroud weapons enable more people to be competitve, instead of just those that are lucky or rich enough to afford crazy random loot greater banes.

If Prey and SoS are a joke in terms of difficulty, then theres really no issue with stat weapons, b/c in all the content before this last mod, con damage was not a necessity.

I honestly think you may be agreeing with me. Not to sound harsh, but I truely do.

Orthon have high hps and immunities for a reason right? If shroud weapons weren't available then there would be less need for high hps and immunities.

I disagree with you about the best loot can be dropped randomly when compared to shroud weapons...but if you eliminate shroud weapons then not only do random loot becomes more important but a bigger variety becomes more important.

Imagine shroud weapons never being introduced. Not only do the weapons that come somewhat close to shroud weapons would be seeked but also anything else beneficial for certain quests/raids. With shroud weapons, 95% of all weapons are just vendored. Witout shroud weapons, a huge influx of what weapons considered valued to keep would be present.

To counter your last point on Prey and SoS, stat weapons would be less needed if large hps and immunities were not added. And mod 8 is not far behind from the shroud introduction. Minus the small Vod/Hound raids in mod 7 where in terms of end game content was such a small addition of content. Both mod 7 and 8 are post shroud and have examples where devs chose to add hps and immunities to compensate the DPS players can obtain now from everyone either using W/P and shroud weapons. It's all related to each other.

My point is expect more of the same in future mods and unbalanced approach of HPs and immunities.

[BlackSteel]

I disagree with you about the best loot can be dropped randomly when compared to shroud weapons...but if you eliminate shroud weapons then not only do random loot becomes more important but a bigger variety becomes more important.
.

take for example a +3 holy silver greataxe of greater evil outsider bane (a +7 axe, so 13.5 avg base, with 5d6 extra dice). Now compare that to common shroud boss beaters. Mineral 2, 15.5 average base with only 2d6 applicable elemental damage to the pit fiend or VoD boss, along with 1d2 slicing. The greater bane does about 8 more damage a swing.

Mobs would still be balanced towards a weapon like this, but shroud weapons allow everyone a chance to have a nice all purpose weapon, and still be competitive to the lucky or rich player with super bane weapons.

Everyone can get a shroud weapon with a little effort, very few people can land a real beauty of a greater bane or awesome stat damager

[swooshrp]

take for example a +3 holy silver greataxe of greater evil outsider bane (a +7 axe, so 13.5 avg base, with 5d6 extra dice). Now compare that to common shroud boss beaters. Mineral 2, 15.5 average base with only 2d6 applicable elemental damage to the pit fiend or VoD boss, along with 1d2 slicing. The greater bane does about 8 more damage a swing.

Mobs would still be balanced towards a weapon like this, but shroud weapons allow everyone a chance to have a nice all purpose weapon, and still be competitive to the lucky or rich player with super bane weapons.

Everyone can get a shroud weapon with a little effort, very few people can land a real beauty of a greater bane or awesome stat damager

Exactly! The weapon you use as an example is a very rare item and even more rare that all 9-10 of your melees would be carrying such an item. And since a raid, for example is based on the abilities of such a group, you wouldn't have to develop quests around that rarity.


Also, having the chance to loot one of these rare weapons adds interest in rerunning quests, thats essentially what loot running is. Another point I mention. Introducing shroud weapons has defeated any value out of the old common practice of loot running...at least in terms of weapons. Now its W/P that is the valued weaponry, and already we have people speculating a nerf to happen because of the dependence of W/P.

I understand your point of how shroud crafting has allowed everyone to get personalized gear that suits their needs, but at what cost to the overall end game and beyond. I love the shroud for what it is, but can't condone the effects it has and will have in the future of this game.