How should a respec work?

[geoffhanna]

Please this is NOT a thread for arguing whether a respec is a good thing. That topic is addressed here, and by addressed I mean "discussed with such thoroughness that the English language is exhausted and is waving the white flag of surrender".

For this thread, assume that a respec mechanism is coming and that Turbine wants our input as to how it might work. As for me, I suggest two different methods; a free respec and a premium character transfer

Free Respec

• Once per module, each of your characters gets one free respec token
• Using the token resets your character to 4999 XP
• This strips away all levels except the first one, all AP, and bonus attribute points
• The respec does not remove favor, tome increases, or bound loot
• The respec does not change appearance or initial class
• All skills are reset to 0 ranks
• When you earn one XP to reach 2nd level you have to take all of your skill points

Premium Character Transfers

• For a fee you can transfer your favor to another character
• For a fee you can transfer your inherent attribute bonuses to another character
• For a fee you can transfer your bound items to another character
• Combine all three and you have a (pricey) full respec

[Quanefel]

If a full respec was put into place, would those who rerolled be given a token as well to go back to where their character was before the respec/reroll took place? In that way, it would benefit everyone. Equally and fairly?

That is of course "assuming" Turbine allowed a full repec as you have stated.

[bobbryan2]

If a full respec was put into place, would those who rerolled be given a token as well to go back to where their character was before the respec/reroll took place? In that way, it would benefit everyone. Equally and fairly?

That is of course "assuming" Turbine allowed a full repec as you have stated.

That would only work if Turbine kept track of tomes and bound loot on a character even after character deletion.

I'm gonna say that somewhere between utterly false and extraordinarily unlikely.

If, however, they do... then sure. Would that make you happy?

[Quanefel]

That would only work if Turbine kept track of tomes and bound loot on a character even after character deletion.

I'm gonna say that somewhere between utterly false and extraordinarily unlikely.

If, however, they do... then sure. Would that make you happy?

It should not be too unreasonable to think they couldn't go back and have all that information for my small suggestion to work. If they have all the information needed to allow for this full respec idea to work, it should not be a difficult matter to work in other past progession from a previous reroll into it as well. In my opinion at least.

As far as it making me happy, it would not change me being happy or unhappy currently. I'd be happy regardless, I am personally not worried about things I might have lost. Although I am sure others might be worried about their lost gear/loot when they rerolled.

[branmakmuffin]

Please this is NOT a thread for arguing whether a respec is a good thing. That topic is addressed here, and by addressed I mean "discussed with such thoroughness that the English language is exhausted and is waving the white flag of surrender".

For this thread, assume that a respec mechanism is coming and that Turbine wants our input as to how it might work. As for me, I suggest two different methods; a free respec and a premium character transfer

Why not the possibility of both?

(And just because I don't like the idea of respecs doesn't mean I can't discuss them in a way that assumes they will happen)

[geoffhanna]

Which part of both? I am confused.

Quanefel, you are suggesting that a respec should include an undo. Is that correct?

[branmakmuffin]

Which part of both? I am confused.

The free and the paid respec mechanisms,which you detailed in your OP. The paid one sounds pretty much like "Pay some money to roll up a new fully capped character, providing you have one already." I have no problem with that, because in the scenario detailed, the player already has a fully-equipped capped character, which will "go away" when it's replaced by the new respec.

[Korvek]

I would increase the time limit to once on a character per year perhaps. One character maximum per account each module, at least on the free version. Perhaps an extra 25$ per character (either in the same module or for the same character in the same year) after that as a premium service. For those who would shell out the money for it, I don't see why they shouldn't be able to respec. It would be another reasonable source of income for Turbine at any rate.

That would just be a personal preference though, as I'd probably end up seeing way too many FotM builds if every character got a respec every module.

[Quanefel]

Which part of both? I am confused.

Quanefel, you are suggesting that a respec should include an undo. Is that correct?

I am not suggesting a "should" it be, I am asking about a "would" it be if we are to assume it was to be in place. Sorry if I was not clear on that point.

[Falco_Easts]

I think any respec will need to take the character back to creation. As Turbine haven't kept track of tome usage/level and when skill points were taken, it would be the only way for it to work.
I think any tomes eaten should have a min level before applying. Say +1 at level 1, +2 at level 5, +3 at level 10 and +4 at level 15. If you ate a higher tome you receive +1 to the relevant stat each time you pass the benchmark until you reach the full useage of your tome. Skill points are then regained per level as per normal as you progress.
All bound loot remains with the character but all favour and XP is reset. Quest counters are also reset.

[Quanefel]

I think any respec will need to take the character back to creation. As Turbine haven't kept track of tome usage/level and when skill points were taken, it would be the only way for it to work.
I think any tomes eaten should have a min level before applying. Say +1 at level 1, +2 at level 5, +3 at level 10 and +4 at level 15. If you ate a higher tome you receive +1 to the relevant stat each time you pass the benchmark until you reach the full useage of your tome. Skill points are then regained per level as per normal as you progress.
All bound loot remains with the character but all favour and XP is reset. Quest counters are also reset.

I am not sure that is such a good idea as it is. By making tomes only usable at certain levels than one of the few advatages of rerolling will be taken away. That would force the hand of the reroll player to do the very thing he did not want to do, a respec. That would also be unfair as tomes being usable by any who gets one to reworked to satisfy the respec optional idea. That is further coding on top of the coding for the full respec.

[Furysetzer]

Aren't tomes considered Inherent Bonuses on your character screen? And isn't the only way to get an Inherent Bonus through a tome? If that's true, then I don't see how someone couldn't figure it out the highest level tome you ate.

Personally, I'm inclined to disallow any kind of respec unless you pay real dollar money for it.

[Falco_Easts]

I am not sure that is such a good idea as it is. By making tomes only usable at certain levels than one of the few advatages of rerolling will be taken away. That would force the hand of the reroll player to do the very thing he did not want to do, a respec. That would also be unfair as tomes being usable by any who gets one to reworked to satisfy the respec optional idea. That is further coding on top of the coding for the full respec.

True, but I do not like the idea of a 32 point build fully twinked and with +3/+4 tomes on every stat running around with new players and their 28 point builds. Can't see that being a good NPE for them. Yeah I know it happens with +2 tomes and gear but I don't see the need to allow it to go to far. Do you really need all that twinking to get through WW?

[Quanefel]

True, but I do not like the idea of a 32 point build fully twinked and with +3/+4 tomes on every stat running around with new players and their 28 point builds. Can't see that being a good NPE for them. Yeah I know it happens with +2 tomes and gear but I don't see the need to allow it to go to far. Do you really need all that twinking to get through WW?

I think it is reasonable to suggest that most players do not like that idea, of 32 pointers over 28 point builds. 1750 favor 32 point builds as well as tomes(any loot for that matter) work off the reward aspect within the game. If a player does A, B or C they are thus rewarded with those gifts. If a player do not run quests/raids then you do not get the rewards contained within. If a player do not run quests for 1750 favor then they do not get the rewards provided for it. Like it or not, that is how it is.

If Turbine was to remove the 1750 favor reward of 32 point builds then it would force all the rewards from favor to be scrapped or reworked to be "fair" to everyone. One not requiring any grind to get which if made so, would no longer have a resemblance to a favor system as we know it.

It might seem unfair that new players or casual player are left out of the option of twinking their characters but with grinding being the way it is, it is hard to work it to be fair too all regardless of time spent to get those twink items. No one "needs" anything as much as people "want" them. I think people confuse a want with a need.

[bobbryan2]

True, but I do not like the idea of a 32 point build fully twinked and with +3/+4 tomes on every stat running around with new players and their 28 point builds. Can't see that being a good NPE for them. Yeah I know it happens with +2 tomes and gear but I don't see the need to allow it to go to far. Do you really need all that twinking to get through WW?

That's less of a problem than someone who ate a +2 tome at lvl 1 and then a resec suddenly costs them 4(ish) skill points.

I am totally with you that tomes 'should' have minimum levels... but the boat has sailed on that particular monster. Maybe +3 tomes only count at 10th... but how does the system know whether or not the +3 tome eater actually had a +2 tome hidden underneath it or not.

And what about the (insanely) rare case where a lvl 1 wizard completed his prereqs for the reaver... got a +3 int tome... and leveled up from the start with it. Tomes coming in at lvl 0 or lvl 1 is fine.

[Falco_Easts]

I am totally with you that tomes 'should' have minimum levels... but the boat has sailed on that particular monster. Maybe +3 tomes only count at 10th... but how does the system know whether or not the +3 tome eater actually had a +2 tome hidden underneath it or not.

That's what I am getting at, if they ate a +3 STR tome for instance then respecced and start with a 15 STR. +1 would kick in straight away taking them to 16. At level 5 another +1 would kick in taking them to 17 then at level 10 the last would apply giving them the full +3 to their stat.

[Falco_Easts]

I think it is reasonable to suggest that most players do not like that idea, of 32 pointers over 28 point builds. 1750 favor 32 point builds as well as tomes(any loot for that matter) work off the reward aspect within the game. If a player does A, B or C they are thus rewarded with those gifts. If a player do not run quests/raids then you do not get the rewards contained within. If a player do not run quests for 1750 favor then they do not get the rewards provided for it. Like it or not, that is how it is.

Actually, the 32/28 point build issue doesn't worry me at all. I don't like the idea of 32 point build that has +3 or +4 tomes on each stat at level 1 vs a 28 point build however.

[Quanefel]

Actually, the 32/28 point build issue doesn't worry me at all. I don't like the idea of 32 point build that has +3 or +4 tomes on each stat at level 1 vs a 28 point build.

I am sure some players don't either but getting a tome is not free, a player has to work to either get one or buy one on AH. To make it "fair" to all would mean no tomes for anyone, I do not think players would be for that idea. We earn it, we get to use it. Seems fair to me.

[QuantumFX]

and by addressed I mean "discussed with such thoroughness that the English language is exhausted and is waving the white flag of surrender".

Now THAT is funny!

NOTE: If you're going to quote the **** out of this please for the love of God learn how the quote function works!

Anyway here's my 2 coppers:

Respecs would be offered as total favor rewards. The total favor rewards would be re tiered like so:

• 700 Total Favor - Unlocks Drow for Server, Gives recipient an option for a bound +1 Tome of choice or Character re(spec/mort) token.
• 1400 Total Favor - Unlocks 32pt builds for Server, Gives recipient an option for a bound +2 Tome of choice or Character re(spec/mort) token.
• 2100 Total Favor - Unlocks Drow for Account, Gives recipient an option for a bound +3 Tome of choice or Character re(spec/mort) token.
• 2800 Total Favor - Unlocks 32pt builds for Account, Gives recipient an option for a bound +4 Tome of choice or Character re(spec/mort) token.

I think this system is the best as it offers the opportunity to respec for current and future characters without having people abuse the system. It is also open ended enough to add more opportunities in the future. It also makes the player really consider how bad they want that respec.

The bad parts are that drow are held off for a bit for the new guy but the 32pt builds are easier to achieve. This is also mitigated a bit as the player could simply take the respec shard and jump into the better build.

Note: all characters that received their 1750 rewards would not receive the 1400 reward. Though they would get a free one-time only respec shard.

As for the respec system itself. Here are 2 options that I would like to see. (Translation: This is a one or the other not both side by side!)

Option #1: The Remort
This idea isn’t brought up as much as a “respec system” but I think it has it's merits.

The premise of the system is that the character is brought back to the character generation screen where it is rebuilt utilizing the latest, greatest character generation rules. The player could choose a different race and class.

All bound and normal gear is retained. All favor rewards are intact. Inherent bonuses would either be refunded as a bound tome with the same plus or simply ignored. (A player could just as easily take a tome with them and eat it at newbie beach.)

All bonus XP rewards would be reset and the player would be able to open any quest at whatever difficulty and would remain reflagged for raids like Reaver, Abbot, and the Shroud.

I like this option the most as it encourages the player to replay the character from the ground up. There is no “***?? You were a level 16 paladin yesterday!” to worry about. Twink gear would actually be a disadvantage as all your bound High level gear would be clogging up your inventory and bank slots.

The only argument, I can think of, against this would be the thumb sucking “but think of the new players!” tangent. My counterpoint to that is, it's a good thing for a new player to see the options available to them in action. Knowing that the game will give you a mulligan is a great comfort when you make mistakes.

Option #2: The Token Respec
The premise of the system is that the character would immediately be the same archetype (race/class levels), would pay a small price to respec out of a bad level or could refocus on a previously splashed class at great cost.

Upon using the respec token the character is brought back to the character generation screen where it is rebuilt utilizing the latest, greatest character generation rules. The character is only given the option to take one of the classes he had before. The character's race may not be changed but alignment and stats may be changed.

When the character is returned from the character generation screen: All bound and normal gear is retained. All favor rewards are intact. Inherent bonuses would either be refunded as a bound tome with the same plus or simply ignored. (A player could just as easily take a tome with them and eat it immediately.) And finally the player would have character level up tokens for each level of each class he had taken previously. (Minus the class level he took at level 1 and all tokens would be capped at the level he had respecced.) The player could then visit his trainer to re level up or go earn XP to multiclass into another class they didn't have previously.

All bonus XP rewards wouldn’t be reset. But the player would be able to open any quest at whatever difficulty and would remain reflagged for raids like Reaver, Abbot, and the Shroud.

This option is secondary to remort because I would personally like to play a character from level 1 to learn the little nuances of the build. I think this would be more popular than remort for the general DDO populace as it allows someone to rebuild without the effort of relevelling. It's also hard for a powergamer to exploit. The character’s race is always a constant and with the limited respecs I outlined above they would be hard pressed to turn a paladin into a barbarian overnight.

I can't think of a single flaw with the basic premise of this option. All the arguments against it would be either simple greed or semantics over the minor functions. All I can say is “Man up” to the greedy and “That's for the devs to iron out” for the nitpickers.

[Falco_Easts]

I am sure some players don't either but getting a tome is not free, a player has to work to either get one or buy one on AH. To make it "fair" to all would mean no tomes for anyone, I do not think players would be for that idea. We earn it, we get to use it. Seems fair to me.

And you will get to use it, when you reach a certain level. No different to that other raid loot you pulled that has a min level or normal loot with a min level. You wouldn't lose them, you would just have to wait a few levels for them to kick in. You wouldn;t have to earn them a second time, only by levelling as per normal.
Exactely the same as most of the good loot in the game you wouldn't be able to use at level 1 if you respecced.