Sorc Guide Reposted pt 1

[Tallyn]

I agree and disagree with the comments made about the Mental Toughness/Improved Mental Toughness feats.

I took one of the Mental Toughness Feats as a Drow Sorc and I like it.

But then I did not take Finger of Death for my level 7 spell. I took Otto's Dancing Sphere.

I also am in a guild with a lot of melee characters. So I like using the extra sp to help haste/displacement/resist them when necessary.


When the level cap goes up, I may drop MT for SF: Necromancy (possibly); I will pick up Finger of Death at 15th level.


If you are using Finger of Death a lot (or any other particular spell) then the benefits of Spell Focus probably do outweigh the benefits of Mental Toughness.

That's my 2 cents anyways.

[Varis]

I agree and disagree with the comments made about the Mental Toughness/Improved Mental Toughness feats.

I took one of the Mental Toughness Feats as a Drow Sorc and I like it.

But then I did not take Finger of Death for my level 7 spell. I took Otto's Dancing Sphere.

I also am in a guild with a lot of melee characters. So I like using the extra sp to help haste/displacement/resist them when necessary.


When the level cap goes up, I may drop MT for SF: Necromancy (possibly); I will pick up Finger of Death at 15th level.


If you are using Finger of Death a lot (or any other particular spell) then the benefits of Spell Focus probably do outweigh the benefits of Mental Toughness.

That's my 2 cents anyways.

I never said focus was not a good idea, I just said it was not for a GENERAL sorcerer. Focus necromancy or Focus enchantment is great if you SPECIALIZE your sorcerer.

I can guarantee that your focus is worth jack squat if end up having to nuke to kill something. All that mana efficiency goes right out the window on red names or other creatures that are immune.

That's why a GENERAL mage that does not just focus on any one task will MT and IMT.

You won't see me making a fuss over spell focus for a necromancer or enchanter.

[wiglin]

I never said focus was not a good idea, I just said it was not for a GENERAL sorcerer. Focus necromancy or Focus enchantment is great if you SPECIALIZE your sorcerer.

I can guarantee that your focus is worth jack squat if end up having to nuke to kill something. All that mana efficiency goes right out the window on red names or other creatures that are immune.

That's why a GENERAL mage that does not just focus on any one task will MT and IMT.

You won't see me making a fuss over spell focus for a necromancer or enchanter.

Agreed

[Omega]

You have an awful high opinion of your opinion, don't you.

Irony defined.

[Aspenor]

Irony defined.

If you haven't figured out that I am proudly arrogant about arcane casters, I'll say it a different way:

There are hundreds of different ways to skin a cat. My way just happens to be the best.

QFE

[Vienemen]

And just for the record, I am the ultimate authority on arcane casters, in all respects.

Please allow a humble wizard the chance to interject a tidbit of insight. Good discussions here, but I wish to remind all that we shall see more enemies with spell resistance as we increase our own power. If I may present a formula that might be of help here, and quite obvious to many of you (Spell penetration>Spell focus>Spell Points). This is a truth I believe extends across the wizard/sorcerer boundry. Those vicious Jariliths in gianthold tor elite will still stop my spells on a spell penetration roll of 4 or less...and that was with a spell at +24 to the roll...the math comes out to just below a 30 spell resistance!...and it will only get worse. So as far as landing spells with spell focus vs spell points to recast on successful saves goes, your going to first have to jump the hurdle of spell resistance.

Perhaps a generalist might be better off with that greater spell penetration in place of the spell focus at higher levels. I believe we can agree that is when the penetration feats become more meaningful.

As far as the mental toughness and improved version goes, jkm already stated a important truth that the spell storing ring makes up for 1 of those two by itself. A wizard would like to have all three I can assure you, but we have more latitude in some of our decisions.

Wish there was a better skill to tell them to train in other than jump...

V

[Katianara]

There's nothing important about the truth that a spell storing ring "makes up" for one of the toughness feats, especially when you consider nothing can "make up" for having both feats AND the ring.

Spell Penetration is situationally useful, but is just another way of specializing yourself in the end.

[Varis]

Please allow a humble wizard the chance to interject a tidbit of insight. Good discussions here, but I wish to remind all that we shall see more enemies with spell resistance as we increase our own power. If I may present a formula that might be of help here, and quite obvious to many of you (Spell penetration>Spell focus>Spell Points). This is a truth I believe extends across the wizard/sorcerer boundry. Those vicious Jariliths in gianthold tor elite will still stop my spells on a spell penetration roll of 4 or less...and that was with a spell at +24 to the roll...the math comes out to just below a 30 spell resistance!...and it will only get worse. So as far as landing spells with spell focus vs spell points to recast on successful saves goes, your going to first have to jump the hurdle of spell resistance.

Perhaps a generalist might be better off with that greater spell penetration in place of the spell focus at higher levels. I believe we can agree that is when the penetration feats become more meaningful.

As far as the mental toughness and improved version goes, jkm already stated a important truth that the spell storing ring makes up for 1 of those two by itself. A wizard would like to have all three I can assure you, but we have more latitude in some of our decisions.

Wish there was a better skill to tell them to train in other than jump...

V

see this is the advantage of a generalist... he does not depend on crowd control. He does not need to break the rakashas SR. If crowd control is likely to fail, he will just nuke.

Cats? Put down a wall and jump around.
Rakasha? Web them or nuke them
Reavers? fire or cold damage depending.
Drow? Please... lol

You only need spell penetration if you have no alternative to crowd control.

[Aspenor]

see this is the advantage of a generalist... he does not depend on crowd control. He does not need to break the rakashas SR. If crowd control is likely to fail, he will just nuke.

Cats? Put down a wall and jump around.
Rakasha? Web them or nuke them
Reavers? fire or cold damage depending.
Drow? Please... lol

You only need spell penetration if you have no alternative to crowd control.

OMGzorz I AGREE!! jk Varis

well I really do agree, just messin with you though.

[spifflove]

Can you color code the post? I got a headache trying to read it.

[Kolvarg]

When do you think you will be expanding this post? I find it very useful as I am playing my 1st sorcerer. I have made it to level 4 using your guide.

However, I don't know that I want to be a generalist, I am thinking more along the lines of mind control/crowd control stuff. I am loving Hypnotize as I walk into a room making the tanks jobs easier and the cleric as well via less damage to heal.

What feats/spells are the best for this type of sorcerer? With some Offensive for when needed.

Also, besides a high CHA and adding UMD at every level, are there items/ways to increase UMD? I have been in a few parties where I needed to act as backup healer and I am failing like 60-75% of the time with my wand.

Thanks and happy casting!

[DemonMage]

Also, besides a high CHA and adding UMD at every level, are there items/ways to increase UMD? I have been in a few parties where I needed to act as backup healer and I am failing like 60-75% of the time with my wand.

Heroism, Greater Heroism, Bard +skill song, Golden Cartouche from Delera's, Seven Fingered Gloves from Titan Raid (be awhile before you see that place probably though!), Rabbit Gloves.

Heroism is about all you could get anytime too soon, bard song maybe too. Golden Cartouche in a few levels (think it's ML7).

[Steadfast]

Feats (in Order): (Drow)
Maximize
Extend
Heighten
Spell focus: Enchantment
Empower

Feats (in Order): (Human)
Maximize
Extend
Heighten
Spell focus: Enchantment
Empower
Spell Penetration

We've been following this build for a human sorceror, and I don't think the recommended feat order works for humans. Heighten is recommend as the third feat, but it requires the ability to cast level 2 spells. For a human, the ability to take a third feat becomes available when the character hits level 3. Level 2 spells, on the other hand, aren't available until the character reaches level 4. We ended up swapping Heighten and Spell focus: Enchantment.

Let me know if I'm missing something.

Steadfast

[Aspenor]

Can you color code the post? I got a headache trying to read it.

I will try to get around to adding colors and bolded titles this weekend, as well as fixing the lineup of the text. I had to write the whole guide in windows Notepad, and copy/paste it to the forums.

[Aspenor]

We've been following this build for a human sorceror, and I don't think the recommended feat order works for humans. Heighten is recommend as the third feat, but it requires the ability to cast level 2 spells. For a human, the ability to take a third feat becomes available when the character hits level 3. Level 2 spells, on the other hand, aren't available until the character reaches level 4. We ended up swapping Heighten and Spell focus: Enchantment.

Let me know if I'm missing something.

Steadfast

That works. I probably wasn't paying attention to that when I wrote it.

[Aspenor]

When do you think you will be expanding this post? I find it very useful as I am playing my 1st sorcerer. I have made it to level 4 using your guide.

However, I don't know that I want to be a generalist, I am thinking more along the lines of mind control/crowd control stuff. I am loving Hypnotize as I walk into a room making the tanks jobs easier and the cleric as well via less damage to heal.

What feats/spells are the best for this type of sorcerer? With some Offensive for when needed.

Also, besides a high CHA and adding UMD at every level, are there items/ways to increase UMD? I have been in a few parties where I needed to act as backup healer and I am failing like 60-75% of the time with my wand.

Thanks and happy casting!

Technically this "generalist" build will be a highly capable mind controller. With the investment of SF: Enchantment, holds and charms will be your highest DC spells. If you want to go full-on enchantment you can probably swap out the empower feat for a greater spell focus: enchantment, or you can take a spell penetration feat for getting through spell resistance with your charms. I'd recommend the GSF, since I rarely have trouble penetrating spell resistance when I want to.

Going full-on enchanter will be a bit of a knock to your nuking power, but if you think charms are your thing then empower is definitely the feat to switch.

[Khurse]

I've been using this, thanks!
Would this be similar (for early level) for a human sorcerer build focusing on
instakill or dps later on?

Really have no idea what I'll end up doing, but I have to admit, in every game I've tried so far I like killling things far more than the crowd control.

[Aspenor]

I've been using this, thanks!
Would this be similar (for early level) for a human sorcerer build focusing on
instakill or dps later on?

Really have no idea what I'll end up doing, but I have to admit, in every game I've tried so far I like killling things far more than the crowd control.

The feats will be similar, except an instakill mage will want either Spell Focus: Necromancy or Spell Focus: Illusion, for FoD and PK respectively. Spells will also be different towards the higher level end of the spectrum. An instakill mage will use finger of death over ottos dancing sphere at level 14, as well as a DPS mage most likely. A DPS mage will also use disintegrate over flesh to stone, most likely.

[Beherit_Baphomar]

I had to hunt for this thread, so here's a lil bumpage to keep it where I can find it.

[Elvendur]

wow, bash city!
i have to say this: stop the bashing! i agree with Aspendor on the feats, i believe end-game and mid-game you'd rather have more potant damage, and larger affect then to be able to recast one level 7th spell twice. out of mana? go splurge your funds on a SP Potion! WAY more logical in my eyes. if you're solo'ing hard settings (hard>elite) then you probably do not need this guide, if you're not, and partying, then save some kills for the meat-shields! they can get high kill count without having magics being thrown over thier heads!

Vote: FEAT is to good to waste on a measly 70 points, or even 140 points of spell power. use those points for your spell focus or something. look to Aspendor for the advice! and if you don't like his guide, make your own. plain&simple.