Sorc Guide Reposted pt 1

[Aspenor]

Thanks for fishing this one out of cache, Wiglin. I guess I wasn't thorough enough:

***UNDER CONSTRUCTION***
***UNDER CONSTRUCTION***
**DANGER - MEN AT WORK**



Aspenor's Guide to Rolling and Building a Sorceror

First of all, you have to know what you want from your sorceror. Do you want to be a crowd control master? Do you want to be an instant-death killing machine? Or maybe you prefer direct damage/nuking....All of these are viable options. Each type will have different feats, spells, and different enhancement focus.

Firstly, lets start with stats. DDO has peculiar rules regarding caster classes, which differ greatly from PnP. Firstly, and most notably, IMHO at end-game the only stats that matter are your primary casting stat (Charisma, in the case of sorcerors), and your constitution score (governs your hit points). Keep in mind that sorcerors only get 2 skill points + INT modifier per level. Concentration is of utmost importance, because you want your spells to go off when you cast them, you don't want some monster hitting you to stop it. UMD is a common favorite, and a high level sorceror can use raise dead scrolls if he/she is properly equipped. Maxxing both these skills will take ALL your base skill points.

It is thus my recommendation to start all sorcerors with enough intelligence to gain 3 skill points per level. My three skills I chose were concentration, UMD, and jump. Jump is for evasive maneuvering, and is incredibly useful for avoiding damage. YOU WILL NOT want to stand still when mobs attack you.
PS RE: SKILLS--You may choose to take diplomacy instead of jump. Diplomacy ROCKS for a sorceror, and I will get around to explaining that later.

My recommended Starting stats, drow sorceror
STR-8
DEX-10
CON-14
INT-12
WIS-8
CHA-20

Skill points spent AT EVERY LEVEL in UMD, jump, and concentration. (PS-OR DIPLOMACY INSTEAD OF JUMP)

Feats (in Order): (Drow)
Maximize
Extend
Heighten
Spell focus: Enchantment
Empower

Feats (in Order): (Human)
Maximize
Extend
Heighten
Spell focus: Enchantment
Empower
Spell Penetration


These spell choices are those of the "Generalist," often enchantment-based sorceror.

Spell choices: 1st level
Charm Person, Niacs
At first level you will want to be able to short-man quests, and you will want to be able to take control of the baddies to fight for you. Charm Person works on kobolds and hobgoblins, the common enemies in the early game. Niacs is for damage output. It is the highest damage spell for first level available, and it works well on early mobs, especially casters. A sorceror should remember melee mobs have low will, and caster mobs have low dex, so charm the fighting types
and kill the caster types.

Spell Choice: 2nd level
Hypnotism
Will save spell, useful for making groups of mobs stand still. A sorceror can spam cast 2-3 hypnotisms and render entire crowds immobile. I recommend taking this at 2nd level to help control crowds.
Alternative: Burning hands
Burning hands is a good low level damage spell for groups of monsters, and taking burning hands at second level also allows the sorceror to be more effective against undead, since ice does not work on skeletons.

Spell Choice: 3rd Level
Burning Hands
See above, alternative spell is hypnotism.

Spell Choice: 4th level
Web or Resist Energy
Web is the fundamental crowd control spell in the game. Learn it, use it, and master it. Being able to use this spell effectively will help you use others later down the line. Resist energy is a MUST HAVE for a sorceror. Taking this spell early also makes your sorceror more able to short-man quests for quicker experience. You can make due with your first level spells for CC and damage.

Spell Choice: 5th Level
Web or Resist Energy
Whichever one is not chosen at 4th, take it at 5th.

Spell Chice: 6th Level
Haste
Everybody loves haste. You know you can't live without it. At low levels there is nothing like hasting a fighter.

Now's when it gets hairy. Around 6th level, you no longer need some early spells, and you are in need of different spells for the quests you are in.
For example, Stormcleave is a common 6-8 experience quest, and the giant at the end canot be harmed by Niac's. However, crowd control is necessary for this quest, and it would be awful tough to give up one of your CC spells. At 6th level I recommend dropping burning hands for magic missle, simply for use in killing the giant. If you feel you can count
on your fighters to do this, this change may not be necessary.
Spell Swap- Burning Hands for Magic Missile

Spell Choice: 7th Level
2nd Level - Blur
3rd Level - Fireball
Blur will be your first defensive buff. KEEP YOURSELF BLURRED. You have no AC. Damage avoidance is your only way to survive. Fireball replaces burning hands as your AoE killer.

Recommended spell swap at 7th level:
Niac's for Jump
Niacs is no longer your primary killing spell. Fireball is a reflex save, and performs just as well as Niacs. Jump is necessary for evasive maneuvering.
Jump is a must-have for a 14th level caster.

Spell Choice: 8th level
8th level spell selection is very subjective. It depends on your build. Are you an instant-death build? You want PK. Are you a direct damage build? You want firewall. Are you a charm build? Charm monster.
My chosen spell at this level is PK. It generates very little aggro, and is a useful for a quick-kill on a threatening mob.

Spell Choices: 9th level
W))T!! We get 3 spells this level!
2nd Level - Scorching Ray
3rd Level - Displacement
4th Level - Wall of Fire
Displacement is a MUST HAVE for a sorceror. 50% miss chance will save your tail ALOT. Use this spell, and use it often when you get aggro.
Scorching ray - staple high level damage spell. At low levels it is less useful, due to 1 ray only. It now has 2.
Wall of Fire - Staple damage spell. Learn to love it. You'll be jumping around in it like a jackrabbit on crack.

Spell Choices: 10th level
5th level - Hold Monster
Hold Monster is your new Melee destruction spell. Being attacked by a fighter type mob? HOLD THEM. Will save spell.

Recommended spell swap:
Hypnotism for Nightshield
With your casting speed on hold monster, hypnotism is not necessary. Use web for group control, if necessary. More mobs cast magic missles and force missiles at high levels, including the Stormreaver. Magic missles are unavoidable damage, and this simple spell lasts for 1min/level, and absorbs all missile effects. It also gives resistance bonus to saves.

Spell Choices: 11th Level
3rd Level - Protection from energy
4th Level - Stoneskin
5th Level - Cone of Cold
I R SQUISSHEEEE
Displacement and stoneskin is the BEST armor class in the game. Use it, love it. Live it.
Protection from energy may seem like it is unnecessary, but you won't think so when you get hit with 100 damage lightning and 180 damage polar rays. Damage mitigation is your friend. Cone of Cold is your new burning hands, except much better. Especially useful on fire monsters (14th level crits up to 2000-ish).

Spell choices: 12th level
6th Level - Flesh to Stone
This spell is your new caster-stopper. It is a fort save, and clerics/caster types have low con. Use it, and love it. Spam it, if you must.

Spell Choices: 13th Level
4th Level-Enervation
5th level-Dominate Person
6th Level-Greater Heroism
Enervation is your debuff spell. Hit tough mobs with an enervation (it has no save) and then PK to your heart's content.
Dominate Person is your new charm person. Many HIGH level mobs are PEOPLE, including Gnolls, Dwarfs, Elves, Humans, and Goblins. GH-you don't want to be casting GH from scrolls, unless you're rolling in cash. Plus, you can extend the buff from your mana.

Possible Spell Swap, depending on preference
You may wish to keep web, but I find myself with no shortage of spells to throw with this build. I swap web for false life, free temp. hit points from mana.

Spell Choice: 14th Level
7th - Otto's Dancing Sphere
The staple high level crowd control spell. This spell works on monsters, animals, people, demons, everything except undead and vermin. This is your new "crowd" control.

*Comments on SF: Enchant & Playing sorcerors*
Sorcerors have an uncanny ability to run through quests using nothing but charms and damage when needed. The SF: Enchantment feat helps each charm to stick, so that less recasting is necessary. I would explain further why I feel it is so necessary for charms to work well, but I don't want my playstyle nerfed.

[amysrevenge]

Yay!

And I only had to gain one level without the helpful guide.

Luckily, since it was level 6, I could remember Haste and Extend Spell.

[Varis]

what's with all the mental toughness and improved mental toughness hate?

[Aspenor]

what's with all the mental toughness and improved mental toughness hate?

When you are a sorceror with approximately 1600 spell points, spending a feat on another 70 spell points (not even 2 casts of a 7th level spell) is pointless.

[Borror0]

When you are a sorceror with approximately 1600 spell points, spending a feat on another 70 spell points (not even 2 casts of a 7th level spell) is pointless.

My point on this is more like:

A wizard got 3 bonus metamagic feat so he can afford MT and I:MT. Sorcerer got more spell point and less feats. So he got to choose his priority. Other feats , like Spell Focuses, are more mana efficient than MT or I:MT. Why, because casting the same level 7 spell twice cost more than MT could give you, thus Sepll Focus is taken and MT is left alone playing in his sandbox.

[Aspenor]

My point on this is more like:

A wizard got 3 bonus metamagic feat so he can afford MT and I:MT. Sorcerer got more spell point and less feats. So he got to choose his priority. Other feats , like Spell Focuses, are more mana efficient than MT or I:MT. Why, because casting the same level 7 spell twice cost more than MT could give you, thus Sepll Focus is taken and MT is left alone playing in his sandbox.

Basically the same argument with better wording.

The marginal benefit from a spell focus or other metamagic is much greater than the SP provided by mental toughness feats.

[NoLimHoldem]

Oops, ment to start a new post

[Steadfast]

What are some suggested enhancement lines to take for this build? We're trying a 32-point build human version (true neutral, 8 Str, 12 Dex, 16 Con, 10 Int, 8 Wis, 18 Cha).

Thank you,

Steadfast

[Aspenor]

What are some suggested enhancement lines to take for this build? We're trying a 32-point build human version (true neutral, 8 Str, 12 Dex, 16 Con, 10 Int, 8 Wis, 18 Cha).

Thank you,

Steadfast

Sorry it's taken me so long to post enhancements. I'll get to it ASAP.

[jkm]

What are some suggested enhancement lines to take for this build? We're trying a 32-point build human version (true neutral, 8 Str, 12 Dex, 16 Con, 10 Int, 8 Wis, 18 Cha).

Thank you,

Steadfast

if you are going to roll a human go

8 str
8 dex
18 con
8 int
8 wis
18 cha

that way with 2 +3 tomes you are looking at a 34 cha and a 28 con

[jkm]

this MT and IMT argument is going no where. what we really need to do in the guide is break it up by level of the player. MT and IMT are not needed by expert players who carry SS rings and have every piece of optimum gear there is. they are very much needed by the person running their first time sorc/wiz because they are going to make bad decisions (like trying to hold a skelly) and MT/IMT will help lessen the sting.

so it would be better to talk about feats in terms of the players skill level with the understanding that unlike stats and skills, these can be changed.

beginner
MT
extend
IMT
maximize
heighten

experienced
MT
extend
empower
maximize
heighten

or

MT/Spell Pen
extend
maximize
heighten
enlarge/SF

or

MT/Spell pen
maximize
heighten
SF1
SF2

or whatever...

[Fennario]

this MT and IMT argument is going no where. what we really need to do in the guide is break it up by level of the player. MT and IMT are not needed by expert players who carry SS rings and have every piece of optimum gear there is. they are very much needed by the person running their first time sorc/wiz because they are going to make bad decisions (like trying to hold a skelly) and MT/IMT will help lessen the sting.

so it would be better to talk about feats in terms of the players skill level with the understanding that unlike stats and skills, these can be changed.

beginner
MT
extend
IMT
maximize
heighten

experienced
MT
extend
empower
maximize
heighten

or

MT/Spell Pen
extend
maximize
heighten
enlarge/SF

or

MT/Spell pen
maximize
heighten
SF1
SF2

or whatever...

Never looked at it that way. Agreed. Great thought.

[Fennario]

Here's my take on the whole MT/IMT thing since I have been on both sides of the fence.

I have a Human that I have been playing since release. At level 14 wiith a 32 Cha, Dragonblooded IV, and a PoP X, he had 1808 spellpoints. Now I had always been one of those who loved looking up and seeing that huge SP pool. Since day one, my battle cry was: max Cha, and max those SPs. It was a big thing for me, and really hard to let go of.

After I started playing with Finger of Death, I decided to swap out one of them just to see how useful a Spell Focus School really was. Well, it didn't take long before another shard and 100,000 gold was given to Fred. There was NO question on how much more effecient my favorite character had become.

I am now sitting at 1658 spellpoints. Do I miss looking up and not seeing 1800+ spellpoints? Absolutely. I feel the withdrawl symptoms when I am standing around Stormreach from time to time. But, when I am in the heat of battle, I wouldn't trade my Spell Focus education back for anything. Well, at least not for 150 Sps anyway.

I understand completely it can be hard to let go of MT/IMT. Its just one of those things. But if you just try swapping out one of them, you will see the light like I did.

Now if I could only hit the +3 tome lottery, and get to 34 Cha.

[Steadfast]

if you are going to roll a human go

8 str
8 dex
18 con
8 int
8 wis
18 cha

that way with 2 +3 tomes you are looking at a 34 cha and a 28 con

We went with 10 int to be able to go with three skills (concentration, jump, and UMD) per the original build. This means we can go with 9 dex / 17 con or 12 dex / 16 con (unless we drop to two skills).

I've never come across a +3 tome and I'm not counting on one for this build, never mind two.

Steadfast

[jkm]

if you drop con to 17 you can still get a 26 with a +2 tome. that gives you 3 points for int (i normally run an odd number on int and eat a +1 tome at 1st level)...

[Tallyn]

I agree and disagree with the comments made about the Mental Toughness/Improved Mental Toughness feats.

I took one of the Mental Toughness Feats as a Drow Sorc and I like it.

But then I did not take Finger of Death for my level 7 spell. I took Otto's Dancing Sphere.

I also am in a guild with a lot of melee characters. So I like using the extra sp to help haste/displacement/resist them when necessary.


When the level cap goes up, I may drop MT for SF: Necromancy (possibly); I will pick up Finger of Death at 15th level.


If you are using Finger of Death a lot (or any other particular spell) then the benefits of Spell Focus probably do outweigh the benefits of Mental Toughness.

That's my 2 cents anyways.

[Steadfast]

Feats (in Order): (Drow)
Maximize
Extend
Heighten
Spell focus: Enchantment
Empower

Feats (in Order): (Human)
Maximize
Extend
Heighten
Spell focus: Enchantment
Empower
Spell Penetration

We've been following this build for a human sorceror, and I don't think the recommended feat order works for humans. Heighten is recommend as the third feat, but it requires the ability to cast level 2 spells. For a human, the ability to take a third feat becomes available when the character hits level 3. Level 2 spells, on the other hand, aren't available until the character reaches level 4. We ended up swapping Heighten and Spell focus: Enchantment.

Let me know if I'm missing something.

Steadfast

[Aspenor]

We've been following this build for a human sorceror, and I don't think the recommended feat order works for humans. Heighten is recommend as the third feat, but it requires the ability to cast level 2 spells. For a human, the ability to take a third feat becomes available when the character hits level 3. Level 2 spells, on the other hand, aren't available until the character reaches level 4. We ended up swapping Heighten and Spell focus: Enchantment.

Let me know if I'm missing something.

Steadfast

That works. I probably wasn't paying attention to that when I wrote it.