Sorc Guide Reposted pt 1

[Borror0]

so I said...

yes... for that school... so if you SF: enchantment... what about ALL the other schools?

is it gonna help me with nuking?
is it gonna help me with finger of death?

the benefit is situational while mana is universal.



I don't understand how this is so hard to understand...

Varis, seriously, you don't seem to understand the purppose of this guide. This guide are for Generalist, often enchantement sorc. You want to go FoD/PK trigger happy? Read his Insta-kill guide. Want to go nuking? Let him finish his nuking guide.

Aspenor knows what he's doing. and this build is not about nuking.

[Aspenor]

so I said...

yes... for that school... so if you SF: enchantment... what about ALL the other schools?

is it gonna help me with nuking?
is it gonna help me with finger of death?

the benefit is situational while mana is universal.



I don't understand how this is so hard to understand...

And if you properly choose what spells to cast and when, your SF enchantment will increase your mana efficiency beyond the point where MT offers benefit. If you haven't noticed, THERE IS NO finger of death in the above build, so that question is completely moot.

If you want to improve your FOD, you take SF: Necromancy, not mental toughness.

In DDO, to increase nuking power, you focus on enhancements, NOT feats. Feats are virtually USELESS in DDO for increasing damage capabilities for spells.

I am sorry but MT and IMT are wizard feats, not sorceror feats. They are available to sorcerors, but they are a poor choice.

[Varis]

And if you properly choose what spells to cast and when, your SF enchantment will increase your mana efficiency beyond the point where MT offers benefit. If you haven't noticed, THERE IS NO finger of death in the above build, so that question is completely moot.

If you want to improve your FOD, you take SF: Necromancy, not mental toughness.

In DDO, to increase nuking power, you focus on enhancements, NOT feats. Feats are virtually USELESS in DDO for increasing damage capabilities for spells.

I am sorry but MT and IMT are wizard feats, not sorceror feats. They are available to sorcerors, but they are a poor choice.

well if you insist that spell focus belongs in a generalist build then feel free. I don't share that opinion but I don't have to.

Instead of argueing the generalist sorc to death, I'll let you get to the nuker (my specialty). We can take it from there.

[Borror0]

well if you insist that spell focus belongs in a generalist build then feel free. I don't share that opinion but I don't have to.

Instead of argueing the generalist sorc to death, I'll let you get to the nuker (my specialty). We can take it from there.

OoC Varis, define me the spell list of a generalist sorc.

[blaten22]

well if you insist that spell focus belongs in a generalist build then feel free. I don't share that opinion but I don't have to.

Instead of argueing the generalist sorc to death, I'll let you get to the nuker (my specialty). We can take it from there.

I don't think the idea of saying that because he chose the feats its not a generalist build. The idea of the game *correct me if i'm wrong* that most people worry bout CC first, Dps second. *least i hope so...am old school :P*...Any point in time if you mistakenly over nuke, you'll have a easier time especially at lower lvl's to land a will save spell than with out it.

I have MT and IMT on my wizard...its not game breaking, and infact swapped them for SF and GSF later because of my belief your better off being efficent with what you have, then having X mob resisting or in case of PK missing the will save but making his fort save 3-4 times in a row...you've easily spent the 150ish sp's that MT and IMT give you.

Just my 2cp

Tenstar SuperNova

[Varis]

OoC Varis, define me the spell list of a generalist sorc.

I'll give it a try


1st:
Hypno
Jump
Shield
MM

2nd:
scorching ray
resist energy
web
blur

3rd:
Fireball
protection from elements
haste
displacement

4th:
stoneskin
wall of fire
enervation
Solid Fog

5th:
Cone of Cold
Dominate Monster
Hold Monster

6th:
Greater Heroism
Flesh to stone

7th:
Finger of death


there that's from the top of my head. Plenty of nukes, insta kill, dominate, buffs, and crowd control.

some minor stuff can be tweaked like take ottos dance sphere instead of finger of death and in turn take phantasmal killer instead of enervation.

But as it is, I think that would make a great generalist spelllist.

[NoLimHoldem]

Oops, ment to start a new post

[Aspenor]

I'll give it a try


1st:
Hypno
Jump
Shield
MM

2nd:
scorching ray
resist energy
web
blur

3rd:
Fireball
protection from elements
haste
displacement

4th:
stoneskin
wall of fire
enervation
Solid Fog

5th:
Cone of Cold
Dominate Monster
Hold Monster

6th:
Greater Heroism
Flesh to stone

7th:
Finger of death


there that's from the top of my head. Plenty of nukes, insta kill, dominate, buffs, and crowd control.

some minor stuff can be tweaked like take ottos dance sphere instead of finger of death and in turn take phantasmal killer instead of enervation.

But as it is, I think that would make a great generalist spelllist.

Just so you know, that list is *exactly* the same as the spell list in my OP, except substitute Ottos Sphere for FoD, and PK for solid fog.

[Jarlaxel]

I am reading these threads about the arguement between MT/IMT and Spell focas feats. My question is this, if this is a general sorcerer build guide why specialize in a school of focus at all? I realize Aspenor is leaning towards generalist with a touch of enchantment. Which is fine, however, I believe the key to a general sorcerer build is diversity and with diversity you are casting many spells that you do not have a school focus for. I personally, am a generalist sorcerer with mt/imt. I have spent a lot of dragonshards experimenting with sf/gsf. I am a lvl 14 human with a 30 charisma. I use a superior V potency scepter, and a +1enchantment/illusion scepter in the other hand. I wear a belt of the seven ideals. I am a cc, buffer, nuker, and instant deather. I use all the spells in the right situations. So my point is, as a general sorcerer why limit myself to 1 or 2 school focuses when I only use those spells 35% of the time. For example, POP elite, depending on my mood I will buff the party, (Stone skin, blur, greater heroism, resists,) Then continue to dominate person the entire hallway, march up to skelly, and then take my charmies from room to room. While in each room I will throw down a disco ball or firewall depending on the room and watch the party and charmies do the rest. Then after we grab the orbs and chests, shrine. Now I have a full mana bar for Cochila. (Mana management is essential.) Drop maximized, extended firewalls on cochila and with 1700+ spell points I can light up the room like a bonfire and watch him burn. If I want to change it up the process is the same except instead of dominating person I will enervate/phantasmal kill the hallway mobs.
Another example, cabal for 1 elite. Buff the party, enervate/phantasmal kill the casters or any mob causing trouble. Disco ball the doorway to the rooms, and then nuke the hell out of the king. Now between buffing, enchantment, instant death spells, and nuking why would I want to specialize in a specific focus? The point is, I am using so many variety and diverse spells not specific to a focus feat that to me having more mana is more important than specializing. (Unless I choose a build to be only 1 type of caster. Aka nuker, instant death caster)
I mentioned before I did a lot of experimenting and I have been very dissapointed in sf/gsf feats. I found that I don't need sf/gsp for enchanting. With Heighten I can dominate person just fine without it on elite content. I rarely use hold monster, and hympnotism works awsome with heighten. My opinion, enchantment focus, not necessary. I tried illusion sf/gsf for phantasmal killer, and to my dismay? the mobs in gianthold still saved!!! As I stated before I wield a +1illusion/enchantment scepter. I believe those stack with the focus feats. I was expecting them to die 95% of the time on the first cast. it still took 2 tries 50% of the time. So, if its going to take my 2 tries 50% of the time with and without the focus feats, I decided mental/imp mt was more useful. And believe me it usually doesn't take me more than 2 tries with mt/imp mt. Also is the spell focus feat really worth getting for 1 or 2spells? A +1 or +2 to resist to the DC in my opinion doesnt seem to make a whole lot of difference. I wasted feats just for them to continue to save all the friggen time? Might as well take the extra mana and invest it in buffing and CC. Now I know, a whole bunch of people are going to disagree with me and tell me I am wrong the spf/gsf feats work blah blah blah. Heres the math blah blah blah. Maybe I dont have uber eq? maybe I don't have a 34 charisma? But again in my experience and play style having more mana to spread around to a variety of different spells from different schools is better than only using 1 or a few spells from 1 or 2 school focuses. If that is what you want to do, than in my opinion that is playing a specializing caster not a general caster.
Aspenor has a solid build and he is an expert in this field. I disagree with him saying mt/imt is a poor choice. 150 extra sp is very helpful to a diverse caster. i would also recommend not taking both empowered and maximize. It is redundant and not necessary. If you manage your mana well most end bosses will burn and die quickely with a maximized/extended or empowered/extended firewall. Having both is a waste of mana and overkill. Pick one or the other but dont waste a feat on both.

[Borror0]

I'll give it a try


1st:
Hypno **<-- Enchantement
Jump
Shield
MM

2nd:
scorching ray
resist energy
web
blur

3rd:
Fireball
protection from elements
haste
displacement

4th:
stoneskin
wall of fire
enervation or PK
Solid Fog

5th:
Cone of Cold
Dominate Monster <-- Enchantement
Hold Monster <-- Enchantement

6th:
Greater Heroism
Flesh to stone

7th:
Finger of death Or Disco Ball <-- Enchantement


there that's from the top of my head. Plenty of nukes, insta kill, dominate, buffs, and crowd control.

some minor stuff can be tweaked like take ottos dance sphere instead of finger of death and in turn take phantasmal killer instead of enervation.

But as it is, I think that would make a great generalist spelllist.

Ahem

[Steadfast]

What's the best alignment for this build (and why)?

Steadfast

[blaten22]

if your into the chaos guards lawful is the way to go from my understanding. Have heard though in the upper lvl's from others though that some Mob's have a attack that does extra dmg to lawful characters. At 13 though i haven't encountered any of them to my knowledge. will see if i can find the post after work

Tenstar SuperNova
Glindor SpellSlinger

[Borror0]

What's the best alignment for this build (and why)?

Steadfast

True Neutral, since you will put points into UMD

• You can use 'Taint of Evil' items
• You are protected from Unholy weapons
• You are protected from Axiomatic weapons
• You are protected from Anarchic weapons
• Since you can raise from scrolls, the Ring of Ancestors is of no use.

[Aspenor]

What's the best alignment for this build (and why)?

Steadfast

What he said ^ ^

True Neutral.

[Katianara]

Put altogether, MT and I:MT give 150 SP. Now, how often do mobs save against your Empowered+Maximized+Fireball that costs 80 SP? Each time he saves, you loose 40 SP! So, if a mob saves four times, you lost the benefit of MT AND I:MT. Now, say you take SF:Evocation and GSF:Evocation, that might make you more mana efficient, don't ya think?

If you're playing with lv 7 spells, that's only two spells you have to miss to waste more than 150 SP! Now, don't go and tell me mobs never save against your spells!

You're looking at this incorrectly by using the assumption that a greater focus in a specific school makes that spell unresistable / savable.

The truth is, putting two feats into mt, imt gets a sorcerer ~10% more mp, while putting two feats into a specific focus nets a sorcerer a 10% greater chance to fully land that type of spell.

It's a matter of preference.

[Varis]

You're looking at this incorrectly by using the assumption that a greater focus in a specific school makes that spell unresistable / savable.

The truth is, putting two feats into mt, imt gets a sorcerer ~10% more mp, while putting two feats into a specific focus nets a sorcerer a 10% greater chance to fully land that type of spell.

It's a matter of preference.

Well said!

Nothing wrong with spell focus, especially if you are a crowd control caster but being a bit more mana efficient with 3-4 spells is only worth it when those spells define your character. (ex: enchanter, necromancer, etc)

Also Aspenor, nothing wrong with our spell selection. Any experienced sorcerer will have something similar. The big differences are feat selection and enhancement point allocation.

I would still petition you consider a GENERAL build to include MT and IMT and save the spell focus for the crowd control build.

[Lithic]

Asp only has a lvl 1 sorc!!! NOooooooooOOOOOOoooooooOOOOOOOOB!

Hehe j/k :P

Ive recently-ish rolled a sorc (Psyk, human, lvl 14, hold-specced build) and went with both the focus/greater focus and the mental/improved mental toughness feats. Also chose the spell pen/greater spell pen feats since I hate monsters with SR. Later on, I decided I needed maximize if I wanted to solo the same stuff as on my wizard (bosses are a huge pain without maximize), so I switched out greater spell pen. The very next day I went through POP and those stupid cat-men made me regret my choice.

Then I decided that the SR raid was enough to make me get the extend feat, so I swapped out improved mental toughness. Trust me when I tell you that I do NOT miss those spell points. Next dragonshard I find will mean that Psyk loses mental toughness and regains greater spell penetration. In my case, I noticed it is a lot easier to play with 150 SP less than it is to see your hold monster spell fizzle.

Truth be told, Ive had a wizard since near-launch, so I know how it is to survive with only 1300 SP, let alone 1600+ hehe.

[Borror0]

You're looking at this incorrectly by using the assumption that a greater focus in a specific school makes that spell unresistable / savable.

The truth is, putting two feats into mt, imt gets a sorcerer ~10% more mp, while putting two feats into a specific focus nets a sorcerer a 10% greater chance to fully land that type of spell.

It's a matter of preference.

No, I did those assumption knowing that 'a specific focus nets a sorcerer a 10% greater chance to fully land that type of spell.' Sure, it's a matter of preference, but I let the SP to the nuker. IMO, the generalist gain more from the Spell focuses as he will need to recast again less often... and some CC are emergency "Oh ****, I'm about to die!!" Recasting is not ressource efficient for the other party members, mostly the cleric. It's a matter of preferences, but I think many generalist sorc will come to the same conclusion as I.

[Harbinder]

If you're going to give the generalist any spell focus feats you might consider SF: Enchantment + SF: Conjuration.

In the "generalist" sense, your Charms and Holds plus the level 7 dancing ball are +1 DC, and so are most of your crowd control along with some good damage spells +1 DC. A pretty wide variety of spells are affected.

Heighten, Extend, and Maximize for the rest?

[Aspenor]

Asp only has a lvl 1 sorc!!! NOooooooooOOOOOOoooooooOOOOOOOOB!

Lies, Psi, lies....