U50 Preview 1: Endgame Itemization Adjustments

[Hawkwier]

Cautious support for this from me, fwiw...

Provided the balance is done well enough between lowering player power and mob/dungeon power (need to think about stuff like trap DCs and damage, etc.), this should be a positive development.

As ever, the proof of the pudding will be in the eating, but in principle I'm in favour of reversing power creep.

A bit of patience will be required from the player community I think, as I doubt everything will work out first time without anomalies.

[Dark_Lord_Mary]

2 Things

No amount of 'homogenizing' loot will fix the set bonus variations that make Feywild the go to gear now unless you add a universal set bonus to all gear. The Feywild > Sharn > Ravenloft > everything else is **** because of the set bonuses. Will you add universal set bonuses and the ability to craft set bonuses onto Cannith Gear?

and

Casters are further losing not only Spell Crit % and Spell Crit Dmg % and somewhere around what 35% Spell Power - raid healers will suffer and dps casters especially dps warlocks will suffer their 38th nerf to this homogenization. Warlocks will be utterly killed as end game viable for RAIDS and soloing except for those few people who do not mind kiting trash endlessly for hours then having a boss fight for 45 minutes. I dont understand why you'd allow Barb/Pally/Fighter melee etc 2H fight wipe out a room and a boss in 2 minutes, yet a Warlock must required 60 minutes to do the same?? Auto-attack is an even easier easy button than burst/burst/jump. Unless the planned monster nerfs are really really going to weaken mobs i don't see how you can look at Warlock and not see a dead class.

And

Since gating and homogenizing seem to be the direction SSG is going, far away, I might add from Gygax's complex codex, why not just boil all abilities into one stat and call it 'Main Stat' and get rid of STR, DEX, CON, INT etc - that would allow you to really control the numbers with exquisite mastery (This is a joke)

Consider, I beg you, what Princess Leia said, 'The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers.' In other words, the more you try to homogenize our beloved DDO and move it away from 3.5-5e chasing a beautiful algorithm of delicate designed balance, the more players will leave feeling its too dumbed down and different from actual Dungeons & Dragons.

Dungeons & Dragons has never been balanced. Anyone who's played pen and paper D&D knows this: the minute the wizard gets fireball all bets are off. That's how it should be. Give the barbarian an axe and he can murder everyone. Give the wizard lightning bolt and the party is eating scorched dragon for dinner. Give the thief an invisibility ring and watch an entire city get looted into poverty. That's just how the game is. Try to 'balance' it and you will wind up with a Disney Star Wars film instead of a Lucas Star Wars, and yeah once in a while you'll conjure a Favreau, but really, such things are rare, and those who are here to play Dungeons and Dragons are going to find something else to do.

[Nammmmmmm]

Solution Part 1: Itemization

In summary:

Named Items found within Legendary content will be adjusted and normalized to values appropriate to their minimum level. This means that an item found within Ravenloft will match the power level of an item found within Sharn, or Feywild, or any of our other current Legendary content.


The +W bonus from Keen has been adjusted to instead provide complete fortification bypass on a Natural 20. Note: The fortification bypass isn't yet working in this preview

What this means is that the items you find at end game will be lower in item power than they were before, but are now evenly scaled across content packs. This means that an item found in Feywild will be equally as strong as an item found within Sharn or Ravenloft or the Dragonblood Prophecy, or any other Legendary content featuring level 29 items.

I applaud this uniformal change to create all items of the same level to have the same stat bonuses, but how far ahead should end game raids stack up? Previously, I didnt like how most of the endgame raid items (specifically to hot to handle) can only be slotted in specific gear sets. (Imo everybody should be able to upgrade their layout with at least 1 item from EACH raid. and make it generally Best in slot)

But with the itemization adjustments, are we going to see obvious better choices? There are many horizontal tradeoffs that aren't worth considering; when creating the perfect end-game post raid gear layout (mostly in the DPS realm).


Changing keen +w into full fortification bypass is a mistake because for most builds, this will be a flat-out nerf. Unless playing on a toon that has very low fort bypass.

This just seems like an attempt to lessen the gap between min-max players.

[rabidfox]

I could feel the loss of my spell crit and spell power on my FvS (along with my spellpoint pool being reduced by a good sized chunk - between reducing in wizardry item stats + main stat reduction it added up to quite a bit); especially relative to incoming damage at cap. Some of the trash pulls that I normally don't give much thought to (at r1) bounced my health around a lot and ate a lot more spell points to kill off(I heal less/do less damage but still costs the same spell points per cast). I was now struggling to get to the next shrine vs on live where I rarely shrine; a more happy medium is really needed.
I'll need to find a group later to see how r10 healing feels with these changes, but at cap r1+ solo was noticeably a bit of a slog fest as a heal/caster FvS.

[arkonas]

This explains a lot of why the numbers for u51 looked off.

Honestly, good job.

I hated how the lvl 29 items were so far above the prior items, but def have to test playing at it, because this is a major change

I LOVE IT. i'm a veteran of 12 years over 15k hrs. This is the change the game needed. We have had this problem ever since cap went above 20. Finally we get some balance. People knew the creep was bad. we complained about it for YEARS. now they are doing something about it and people want to complain? ok i just don't get it. you can never make them happy ever.

i don't care if things get adjusted. this should of happened a long time ago. do you know how crappy it is to tell people that only expansion gear matters? now other items can actually be useful. it even brings old systems to match new. THAT is amazing. we all complained how mmos invalidate items. Yet here they are bringing ALL of them up to par. how can anyone not like that.

Yes i get SSG has a bad rep for breaking stuff and lag. They also really need to do a bug pass. i mean a big one. there are still bugs that say slay 3 ??? like tangle root gorge. i'm not going to be a negative person nor am i going to be a fanboy. i really think this was needed.

[TPICKRELL]

I applaud this uniformal change to create all items of the same level to have the same stat bonuses, but how far ahead should end game raids stack up? Previously, I didnt like how most of the endgame raid items (specifically to hot to handle) can only be slotted in specific gear sets. (Imo everybody should be able to upgrade their layout with at least 1 item from EACH raid. and make it generally Best in slot)

But with the itemization adjustments, are we going to see obvious better choices? There are many horizontal tradeoffs that aren't worth considering; when creating the perfect end-game post raid gear layout (mostly in the DPS realm).


Changing keen +w into full fortification bypass is a mistake because for most builds, this will be a flat-out nerf. Unless playing on a toon that has very low fort bypass.

This just seems like an attempt to lessen the gap between min-max players.

Note the full fort bypass is only on a roll of 20, so its ****.

[Amoneth]

And you thought the last nerf bat was bad...

[LurkingVeteran]

I could feel the loss of my spell crit and spell power on my FvS (along with my spellpoint pool being reduced by a good sized chunk - between reducing in wizardry item stats + main stat reduction it added up to quite a bit); especially relative to incoming damage at cap. Some of the trash pulls that I normally don't give much thought to (at r1) bounced my health around a lot and ate a lot more spell points to kill off(I heal less/do less damage but still costs the same spell points per cast). I was now struggling to get to the next shrine vs on live where I rarely shrine; a more happy medium is really needed.
I'll need to find a group later to see how r10 healing feels with these changes, but at cap r1+ solo was noticeably a bit of a slog fest as a heal/caster FvS.

I suspect they have a point that casters will be hurt more. They get more of their power and crit from items, I think.

[Lonnbeimnech]

This needed to be done.

[Merrillman]

I suspect they have a point that casters will be hurt more. They get more of their power and crit from items, I think.

Beyond destroyed.
Magister alone is -11 DC (Stat, Core, Tree options)
It destroys spell point costs (lose 10% efficiency)
And because of core and stat loss, your spell points are further reduced.
Then take Crit % away in Draconic AND in feats.
My main twist of energy burst (the ONLY way I can survive mobs) is gone
Rejuve cocoon is gone or points wasted on non usable things in trees you only want for one ability.
Plus’s the recent LGS & RL kill.
Plus the spell destruction of meteor swarm and spell level.

All I have to say is the caster trees better be frikkin STUNNING!!

Someone just took a legendary dump on all casters.

[Krelar]

How does this effect end game weapons. Will the loaded dice and extra +w be going away? So Tail of Sulamades for example will be 4[2d4] instead of 7.5[2d4+6] ?


Another thought, I feel like this drastic lowering of power may backfire.

Many people already wear level ~15 gear until they get to level 29 and the big power bump. Without that big bump there is even less reason to regear before hitting cap.

I suppose on the plus side if you don't need to keep that gear around you free up a bunch of inventory space.

[IBCrabin]

Overall this is a good start to help the new players. Set bonuses will probably need some tweaking.

racial PLs is something to look at as well. Would be great if there is a way to combine heroic + racial TR into one TR reduce the grind for new players and alts.

ePL passive can use a bit of a tweak for low levels.

f2p content can use quite an update. The current free structure doesn't provide enough of a scope for new players to try epic content and or mid level content or even TR.

https://ddowiki.com/page/Guide_to_Fr...lay#Quest_list

Most of the content are in the low to mid range level. the grind to TR is limited to lord of dust chain for tokens. New players don't get to fully experience epic content because of lack of content and epic is built around Epic Destinies unlike sentient weapons or minor artifact which isn't necessary as part of the progression.


Instead of having adventure packs sale every couple months, change the sales so adventure packs are on sales every week but a different level range in an ascending order. reducing the cost of adventure packs wouldn't be a bad idea as some are dated and serve as a form of xp and favor and not run through regularly.

[drunkbarbarian]

So the money I spent on raid timers for Suulo Tail, and Dryad axes was a waste. I guess the chest rerolls for new gear sets for each expansion was a waste of money also. I get why this is being done, but it does go to erode consumer confidence. Do set bonuses get nerfed also? How about the new artifact augments?

Unless I missed something in the release notes about a complete overhaul of all items not just legendary, does that make DoJ/MoD gear best in slot now? Neither of those are lvl 31, or considered legendary. With monster warding removed will TF mortal fear be a thing again?

[Vorachtin]

well the best news is all the bank space that gets freed up clearing out bows as the final hope for bows is now DOA.

[Tlorrd]

snip ... Get more licensing from WotC, find out long term projects, have joint release dates and ... Snip

I don't think they can ... WotC has a new DnD PC game coming out this year ... They appear to be moving on.

[Thar]

Will you be refunding 41% of my price paid for these content packs as now the gear is only 13/22th as good as it was? what would be the point in buying sharn or feywild if the items were not better. bait and switch. seems slightly illegal.

[Singular]

Sounds great.

Why did I spend so much time farming Fey items to replace my Ravenloft gear???

Will I learn from that time investment to not do so again in the future?

If you come back to read this, Future Self, don't trust future Expansions and Itemization in DDO.

[Thar]

As long as the it's all balanced against itself, ie all our challenges are in line with our bonuses then this is fine. Cannith Crafting being amazing end game again is certainly welcome. That's the best system in the game.

Not sure what to think about the change to Keen. That's the only thing that makes me raise a dubious eyebrow.

would be better to just take the feat instead as fort bypass only on a 20... meh..

[Nickodeamous]

So the money I spent on raid timers for Suulo Tail, and Dryad axes was a waste. I guess the chest rerolls for new gear sets for each expansion was a waste of money also. I get why this is being done, but it does go to erode consumer confidence. Do set bonuses get nerfed also? How about the new artifact augments?

Unless I missed something in the release notes about a complete overhaul of all items not just legendary, does that make DoJ/MoD gear best in slot now? Neither of those are lvl 31, or considered legendary. With monster warding removed will TF mortal fear be a thing again?

Hey There,

I tested the new setup in Lam. I can tell you that the answer to lowering set bonuses is yes. For me, PotF went from +25 Melee Power to +15 Melee Power. If I saw this on the outside, I would cry nerf...BUT, if the scaling of monsters also hits at the same time, it becomes more of a visual change. Yes, my stats are lower, but so are everybody else's. Also, the fact the mobs are being adjusted, just means that we should theoretically be able to hold mobs/stun mobs/instakill mobs/kill mobs with the same frequency we do now.

For example, the difference is that instead of doing 1,000 damage on a mob with 10,000 HPs (or 10%), maybe we do 750 damage on a mob with 7,500 HPs.

Just my 2 cents.

Nico

ps. bring back mortal fear!!!

[Chacka_DDO]

wow, all I can say wow! I'm really surprised that you have the courage to do such needed steps for the game and I wish you the best of success with the implementation!
It is also surprising that you get here such positive feedback it looks like this was a kind of elephant in the room and now you finally address that issues, bravo!