U50 Preview 1: Endgame Itemization Adjustments

[Cocomajobo]

Disclaimer

Everything seen on the preview server, Lamannia, is not final and is subject to change or removal before live release.

With Update 50 we are making some adjustments to curtail power creep within DDO's end game, focusing specifically on the power level of items at the level cap. These adjustments will change how you approach gearing, and will encompass both adjustments to player power in addition to content difficulty. We want to go into more detail about why we are doing this and what it means, and we look forward to hearing from you after checking things out on Lamannia.

Background Information

We have steadily increased the amount of power available in itemization in order to provide a sense of progression as our end game has matured. This strategy has resulted in two long term challenges, both of which we are here to address:

Challenge 1: Item power level increases over time as we release new content, and we progress beyond the item power level of older content at the same challenge level.

Challenge 2: As we follow along this system of progression, we in turn increase the difficulty of content to provide challenge. This leads to a situation where content meant to be played at a certain character level ends up with a wide range of difficulty.

With those two challenges in mind, we are aiming to equalize and reduce the power level of items found in end game content, and adjust the power level of monsters at end game to match.

Solution Part 1: Itemization

In summary:

Named Items found within Legendary content will be adjusted and normalized to values appropriate to their minimum level. This means that an item found within Ravenloft will match the power level of an item found within Sharn, or Feywild, or any of our other current Legendary content.

• This adjustment will pull the item values to more reasonable levels across the board, resulting in a streamlined curve that extends upwards from 1 to 30 with fewer jumps and tracks with both randomly-generated loot and Cannith crafted loot.
• This will not affect anything other than the named items found within legendary content and Cannith Crafted Loot that used the "Minimum Levels 31-34 Shards". Random Loot, Augments (named or otherwise), Items found within events, or anything else other than named items found within legendary content and Cannith Crafted Loot that used the "Minimum Levels 31-34 Shards" will be changing.
• Items will be adjusted in place without any necessary intervention on the player's part, to prevent the situation where legacy versions of items are more powerful than newly found versions.
• These items will continue to drop in the same place they currently do at the same drop rates.
• Items with crafted components, such as Slavers Crafting, will have their crafted components adjusted just like the statically set effects found on non-crafted gear.
• Set bonuses at endgame will have their numerical power adjusted to appropriate values to match our new goals for player power sourced from itemization at endgame.
• The +W bonus from Keen has been adjusted to instead provide complete fortification bypass on a Natural 20. Note: The fortification bypass isn't yet working in this preview
• Raid items and Minor Artifacts will retain their proportional power boosts to other items at the same level, and therefore will remain a step stronger than other items at the same level.

What this means is that the items you find at end game will be lower in item power than they were before, but are now evenly scaled across content packs. This means that an item found in Feywild will be equally as strong as an item found within Sharn or Ravenloft or the Dragonblood Prophecy, or any other Legendary content featuring level 29 items.

To provide some concrete context, this is where the numbers will likely end up at the current level cap. Also note that raid items and artifacts will be a few steps higher than what's shown here as well.



Solution Part 2: Monster Power

We have been increasing the power level of monsters found at the level cap as the power level of items increased over time, and since we are adjusting these items downwards, we will be adjusting monsters downwards to match. The most notable change with this system is the removal of the Legendary Tier system as it relates to monsters. A monster at end game will ideally be just as difficult no matter which dungeon it is found in. The removal of the Legendary Tier system will represent a significant reduction in the offensive and defensive statistics of monsters found at the level cap, which means that monsters will be much weaker than they were before. We are also removing the Epic and Hard Saves boost found on all Monsters across our Epic content.

Given that each monster in our game has different stats and therefore a different starting point, it is hard for us to tell you exactly where each number will end up, but we can give out some comparisons to help demonstrate how dramatic this change will be. For example, Monsters across all of Epics will have 6 fewer Saving Throws, and Monsters at Endgame specifically will instead have 16 fewer saves. This also does not include our current planned removal of Epic Resilience, which will remove an additional 6 saving throws, for a total reduction of 22.

Monsters will not just be losing saving throws. The Legendary Tier II buff corresponded to 150% Fortification Bypass, 60 Attack Bonus, and 10 Spell Penetration, as well as a whole host of other offensive and defensive buffs designed to make them hit harder and take more hits. We hope that our monster rescaling ends up making content feel more realistic and more accessible, and are able to do more adjustments if necessary.


Short and Long Term Benefits

We are compelled to make these adjustments for a large number of reasons, and we want to provide a few of the reasons today:

1. Content Pack Parity - This change will put all of the content packs at end game on the same item level scaling, which means that gear found within those content packs will be equally valuable numerically. This means that a large number of items that had previously been crunched out of viability are now able to be worked into gear sets without fear that you are settling for a subpar option.
2. Cannith Crafting Viability - This change will mean that if you have missing parts of your gear set, Cannith Crafting is now a more appealing way to fill those gaps, similar to its benefit at lower levels. It also means that we can dedicate more time to improving Cannith Crafting in the future, as its viability doesn't fall off as we approach end game.
3. Random Loot Viability - This change will mean that it is more likely that Random Loot will end up numerically viable for use at endgame. We don't generally expect established players to use Random Loot provided they have spent some time working on gear, but newer or less engaged players will now have more viable sources of power to select from.
4. Augment Scaling - This change will mean that our revamped Augments and Augment system are comparatively more valuable than they were before. Our Scaling augments (aka non-named Augments) currently stop at level 28, and will now represent a larger chunk of numerical power compared to their usage before this change.
5. Avoiding Difficulty Spikes - The adjustments of monsters at end game will help us avoid difficulty spikes, which in this case means content where there is no outward indication that it is more difficult than normal but in reality contains tougher enemies than in other quests at the same level. Our goal is to provide an end game in which everyone can contribute, but still encourage dedicated play and mastery, with a variety of options that reward a more challenging experience for those able to handle it.
6. Impact on Content Creation - Being able to use existing monster formulas without the need for additional and oftentimes lengthy one-off work makes it easier to stat monsters for dungeons, and that helps us spend more time polishing dungeons and doing cooler and better things.
7. Combat and Statistical Granularity – One of the game's greatest strengths is the granularity of numbers in its content, but working with larger numbers is generally more challenging than working with smaller numbers. We want to retain as much granularity as we can while making gear set math easier.
8. Smooth Leveling - Our long term goals with DDO involve providing a smooth and exciting leveling experience across all levels and difficulties, not just from 1 to 20. This change allows us to provide a smoother leveling curve by removing the large jump in power at level 29.
9. Future Proof Design -One of the biggest benefits of this change is how future proof it is. We will only need to do an endgame adjustment like this once, and then it's largely done and we can continue onwards into the future with a better end game.

As always, we look forward to your feedback!

[Stravix]

This explains a lot of why the numbers for u51 looked off.

Honestly, good job.

I hated how the lvl 29 items were so far above the prior items, but def have to test playing at it, because this is a major change

[Seph1roth5]

Would prefer if the low/mid epic items had just been beefed up instead of everything being dragged down, but we'll have to hope the difficulty change makes up for it.

Question, since all the gear #s are being lowered, is everything ELSE in quests being lowered too? Search/disable dcs for traps, social skill dcs for quests like in fey, monster HD for spell resist/intim/etc., stuff like that?

[Krelar]

Does this mean that cannith shard ML 31-34 are going to be removed from the game since they will apparently no longer apply any sort of bonus over ML 30 shards?

[GramercyRiff]

As long as the it's all balanced against itself, ie all our challenges are in line with our bonuses then this is fine. Cannith Crafting being amazing end game again is certainly welcome. That's the best system in the game.

Not sure what to think about the change to Keen. That's the only thing that makes me raise a dubious eyebrow.

[Shagarot]

At the beggining of the year I've returned to DDO after around 5 year break and one of my biggest gripes was this terrible power creep. I really like those proposed changes, so now I don't feel like I'm nerfed while playing lvl 20-28 untill I get my proper toys at 29.
One question though: is there any chance that you could revisit older content (like MotU or SC) and re-adjust those items (not only with numbers re-balance but how they work as a whole) so they stop being a joke they are right now? Because when lvl 15 gear is so much better than lvl 20-24 then other than exp there is absolutely no reason for running those old quests... and it's a shame because there is still a lot of great content there, but with rewards being basically reduced to the role of sentience food this content will continue to be treated like it's subpar and irrevelent.

[macubrae]

So let me get this straight, while allowing players to use multiple ED trees, most of the big damage has been removed. Also, all of the awesome level 29 equipment players have been farming for years is getting "fixed" so that it isn't that much better than crafted or random generated. After everything has been "fixed" and not nerffed to oblivion as others might say, then DDO is going to sell us ten more levels that nobody asked for, so that we can have big damage and awesome equipment players can farm.
I love D&D and I really like DDO and I've spent a lot of money on both for multiple accounts, as a person who likes change and enjoys a new challenge, who was in beta and came back in 2009 and who has bought almost every expansion and adventure pack x4, only to have my purchases scaled down in effectiveness, leaves me with a little buyers remorse. Personally, I would prefer more content to revamping so much of the game. Get more licensing from WotC, find out long term projects, have joint release dates and put in the quality that Ravenloft has. Bring in new creatures in different colors and sizes, make more quests like Precious Cargo, Blockade Buster and In the Belly of the Beast and remember that it isn't the players against the Devs, we're in this together. The Devs should be making challenging yet entertaining quests, visually stimulating, surprising and maybe a twist at the end, like multiple possible conclusions, rewards or even chain advancements. I know that the Devs have put a lot of work into this, but why? Running new quests, chains and sagas is fun. How much fun is having all of our equipment "fixed" right before you add ten new levels to grind (not all at once)?

[Tlorrd]

snip ... Get more licensing from WotC, find out long term projects, have joint release dates and ... Snip

I don't think they can ... WotC has a new DnD PC game coming out this year ... They appear to be moving on.

[Kebtid]

So let me get this straight, while allowing players to use multiple ED trees, most of the big damage has been removed. Also, all of the awesome level 29 equipment players have been farming for years is getting "fixed" so that it isn't that much better than crafted or random generated. After everything has been "fixed" and not nerffed to oblivion as others might say, then DDO is going to sell us ten more levels that nobody asked for, so that we can have big damage and awesome equipment players can farm.
I love D&D and I really like DDO and I've spent a lot of money on both for multiple accounts, as a person who likes change and enjoys a new challenge, who was in beta and came back in 2009 and who has bought almost every expansion and adventure pack x4, only to have my purchases scaled down in effectiveness, leaves me with a little buyers remorse. Personally, I would prefer more content to revamping so much of the game. Get more licensing from WotC, find out long term projects, have joint release dates and put in the quality that Ravenloft has. Bring in new creatures in different colors and sizes, make more quests like Precious Cargo, Blockade Buster and In the Belly of the Beast and remember that it isn't the players against the Devs, we're in this together. The Devs should be making challenging yet entertaining quests, visually stimulating, surprising and maybe a twist at the end, like multiple possible conclusions, rewards or even chain advancements. I know that the Devs have put a lot of work into this, but why? Running new quests, chains and sagas is fun. How much fun is having all of our equipment "fixed" right before you add ten new levels to grind (not all at once)?

Speak for yourself, i want more levels.

If you guys get the numbers right this might be the best update you had since we had level cap @20.

Also love how this opens up so many other gearing choices. Any weapon that did not have keen was rendered useless in the last few updates, this makes many other weapons suddenly viable, by reducing saves of mobs it also makes proc weapons more appealing. Good job.

Question: Are you looking into leg gsteel as well and augment sets from feywild?

If, how are you gonna adjust those?

[Thar]

As long as the it's all balanced against itself, ie all our challenges are in line with our bonuses then this is fine. Cannith Crafting being amazing end game again is certainly welcome. That's the best system in the game.

Not sure what to think about the change to Keen. That's the only thing that makes me raise a dubious eyebrow.

would be better to just take the feat instead as fort bypass only on a 20... meh..

[Lanadazia]

raiders rejoice!

finally the effort put into raid gear pays off!

[redoubt]

raiders rejoice!

finally the effort put into raid gear pays off!

You think they won't nerf that too?

Maybe you are right... I am sure they will allow things like:

Bell_of_Warding and have 7 more cha and 60 more spell power than any other item in game.
echo of ravenkind for an extra 7 con
or any of the other +20 stat items from the raids.
Raid weapons with double the power of the new level 30 stuff...

If we are lucky they will let them be +14. No way they are letting it stand.

[arkonas]

This explains a lot of why the numbers for u51 looked off.

Honestly, good job.

I hated how the lvl 29 items were so far above the prior items, but def have to test playing at it, because this is a major change

I LOVE IT. i'm a veteran of 12 years over 15k hrs. This is the change the game needed. We have had this problem ever since cap went above 20. Finally we get some balance. People knew the creep was bad. we complained about it for YEARS. now they are doing something about it and people want to complain? ok i just don't get it. you can never make them happy ever.

i don't care if things get adjusted. this should of happened a long time ago. do you know how crappy it is to tell people that only expansion gear matters? now other items can actually be useful. it even brings old systems to match new. THAT is amazing. we all complained how mmos invalidate items. Yet here they are bringing ALL of them up to par. how can anyone not like that.

Yes i get SSG has a bad rep for breaking stuff and lag. They also really need to do a bug pass. i mean a big one. there are still bugs that say slay 3 ??? like tangle root gorge. i'm not going to be a negative person nor am i going to be a fanboy. i really think this was needed.

[Marshal_Lannes]

This change is needed. I commend you for taking a perilous, bold step. Stat inflation and the resulting gear specialization (most builds being confined to these same small pools of items) were out of control and had entered true Monty Haul territory. Scaling back the numbers on characters and monsters should allow you to reach your desired objectives for going forward. I understand that many might suffer from a system shock as these large item numbers are nearly cut in half, but if the game plays better (and I think if done correctly it will) providing both an improved gearing experience and less arduous monsters fighting dynamic then this can end up being a huge win for DDO.

[TPICKRELL]

I took my first alt over to lammania this morning to do some comparisons. (still cant copy main to lammania, probably because its the guild leader, it doesn't show up on the transfer lists)

This is a well developed character, lots of past lives but the only completionist is Epic Completionist. Its in a past life leveling Barbarian configuration, ie gear is solid but far from optimal.

Stats standing in public area (Lammy / Khyber)
HP 2365 / 2628
STR 71 / 85
DEX 38 / 46
CON 61 / 73
INT 45 / 53
WIS 30 / 34
CHA 44 / 44
MP 172 / 182
DS 48 / 61
SP 314 / 485
Fort 163 / 234
PRR 183 / 214
MRR 78 / 83
AC 139 / 159

Saves
Forti 69 / 81
Reflex 52 / 62
Will 49 / 57


I started running a daily R3 circuit but the reboot cut it off after 2 quests. I'm raged most of the time on this circuit, so I take the feywild muse and the level 27 cleric hireling for heals.

Into the Mists: Completed on R3 did not die. Cleric Hireling died, but that's not unusual. Boss beat down took noticeably longer. Feywild muse's heals did much less to my HP bar.

EDIT: forgot to mention that dire charge wasnt as effective on the wolves as it would normally be.

Deathhouse: Completed on R3, did not die. Trap hit harder relative to my HP bar, Tier II/III crowns hit harder, Boss beatdown took longer, and thus I took more damage. Trap did a bigger chunk of my HP bar. Non-crowned Caster Skeleton did bigger chunk of my HP bar than normal.

I was going to do 3 more quests that I run frequently for a bit of reaper xp, but the weekly reboot got in the way and I'm not likely to go back when the servers come back up.

NOTE: This is a sample size of 1 so RNG could be a factor.

[Udofire]

Probably should preview both u50 and u51 at once to get a proper feel of how all the huge changes will affect everything.

[red_kain]

Disclaimer [*]Combat and Statistical Granularity – One of the game's greatest strengths is the granularity of numbers in its content, but working with larger numbers is generally more challenging than working with smaller numbers. We want to retain as much granularity as we can while making gear set math easier.

Agreed, hard agree. I don't want to see millions of damage in DDO, EVER. Very nice to see this is something you guys are aware of.

[WarDestroyer]

Will the base damage in endgame items be adjusted? If stats go down, base damage matters even more. Also, the Keen adjustment doesn't seem to align with its current effect, and considering the meat of all of Feywild's raid items is Keen V, this is a big bigdeal. e.g. FotW GAxe build cares more for base damage than for confirming crits on a natural 20

[xBunny]

So drastic changes are not healthy for game IMHO. All changes after THF and Paladin tree, making me more and more sad. Have filling like u trying to make a different game. Wonder how many ppl from veteran playerbase will stay up to u52. Have strong feeling like this is Star Wars Galaxies's NGE patch.

[Stravix]

So drastic changes are not healthy for game IMHO. All changes after THF and Paladin tree, making me more and more sad. Have filling like u trying to make a different game. Wonder how many ppl from veteran playerbase will stay up to u52.

Honestly, these changes sound like they are very overdue, and make the ED changes we saw last week make so much more sense.

Assuming this is balanced right, this will be a huge step forward for the game.