U51 Early Preview: Epic Destiny Revamp: Primal Avatar

[cru121]

Please can you tell me where do you read that Tsunami has been added to the druid spell list?
I'm playing a druid and I don't see it in my spell list (live server) and I never found anywhere in the forum saying that tsunami will be in the druid spell list.

this thread is discussing potential changes going live in maybe 3-5 months.

[Iriale]

Consider toggle stances for the Heart/Sky/Thorn instead of locking you into only one.

Druids could have these auto-toggle based on their elemental form.

Without a way to swap this in a way similar to how the heroic enhancements operate, Heart/Fire+Healing will end up being overly dominant.


Spellpowers and other values for the tiers should be 2x or 3x in additional value. (Epic abilities should make a bigger dent than heroic enhancements)


Nature's Friend - Remove the shrine element and just have this be a static bonus similar to the bard aria.

This. Please. You're targeting both EDs and Legendary Feats to Specialists on a single element. And some classes work like this, like the sorcerer or the alchemist. But there are others, like the druid, the cleric or the wizard who are generalists, and these classes need their style not to be obliterated. The druid can switch from summer to winter spellpowers simply by changing his elemental wildshape and the weapon he carries. Do not corner him now to a single element forcing him to choose a single path in the ED, and a feat that will increase his damage in such a way that it will nullify the use of the other elements.

And not only that, by creating these exclusive paths in the Primal Avatar you are creating an element, fire, that will once again be more powerful than the rest. Didn't you want to put all the elements on the same level? For God's sake, then don't favor one element over all the others again. Healing should not be tied to any elemental energy, it is something independent of all elements. And for God's sake, stop focusing it all on single-element specialist classes. Generalists need their space too.

For the generalist classes this ED pass is going to be a death blow. Think a bit about them!

[Stravix]

Please can you tell me where do you read that Tsunami has been added to the druid spell list?
I'm playing a druid and I don't see it in my spell list (live server) and I never found anywhere in the forum saying that tsunami will be in the druid spell list.

Lynn (the person you quoted) is a dev. If he says it is being added, you can consider that your confirmation.

[Tlorrd]

That's cool. I would also like to see clerics get it via domain.

That would be cool if they put it in water domain. It "may" make up for the fact that neither Cone of cold or Greater creeping cold have a master of x feat to increase MCL in epics, thus they fall off from the scaling progression.

[mikameow]

It is being added as a Druid spell in the Druid class spell list.

Glad to hear it. Other casters will weep but then again it didn't scale damage wise for them anyway. Thanks for the quick reply.

[axan22]

Im not to keen on the whole after resting at a shrine, as i dont use them much as s druid as i can heal and damage, and especially on shorter quests.

The whole tree is very passive not many new abilities as such just enhances other ones, not sure if i like or dont like yet.

I like the fact we getting tsunami as a new spell i really hope druids get some more lvl 9 spells as we have the same amount of spells as slots so no choice.

The tier 5 summon sounded good but in practice tried the dryad out she only makes about 3 or 4 actions in 15 secs.

How about summons one of each elemental for 15 secs or maybe an earth elemental forms to tie in with thorn, as due to thorn not tieing in so well with fire or water elemental dont think it will be used as much.

Also a shame to actually loose the primal avatar in primal avatar lol

[Iriale]

Also a shame to actually loose the primal avatar in primal avatar lol

SSG probably wants to sell the epic moments with some cap raise. Of course, that presupposes that there will be enough players left to keep the game going by then.

I am already preparing the popcorn to contemplate the development of the great exodus that is coming. It's sad, but I'm almost 99% convinced that our feedback has been of no use.

[Claver]

Character Tested: Level 23* Pure Warlock (Great Old One - Acid) Enchanter/Charmer with all greater augment summoning, harper leadership, Scion of Elysium, etc. (* Advanced to level 30 in dojo but using level 23 gear)

I followed the Thorn path and did not test heart or sky

Location: Epic Gianthold (@ level 30), Heroic Searing Heights (@ level 23)

[B][COLOR=#FF0000][*][*](requires Nature of Thorn) Carrion Swarm: Primal Builder: Target enemy becomes covered with biting acidic and poisonous insects. Every 2 seconds they take 1d6+1 acid and 1d6+1 poison damage per 2 character levels for 8 seconds. Stacks up to 3 times. Each stack also causes a -4 penalty to attack rolls and Armor class. You gain a Primal Charge. Cooldown: 6 Seconds. Activation Cost: 20 Spell Points.

I don't recall the DOT ticking for very long if at all. It may have done so but I don't remember it as being a significant attack. I wish it had a much further range - especially as a DOT in a Destiny that ostensibly supports the slower gameplay of summons

[B][COLOR=#FF0000][*][*](Thorn) Your Acid, Poison, and Force spells have a chance to blast one target for an additional 1d3 damage per character level of the same type as the spell used. Each element can only occur once every 5 seconds, tracked separately. Gain a Primal Charge whenever this occurs.

I had hoped the acid pact damage from the Eldritch blast might trigger a primal charge - it did not.

Torc, can you allow the appropriate pact damage (Acid for example) to qualify for a chance to generate Primal Charges to open this destiny up to Warlocks. Pact damage has a saving throw modified by evocation focus. It should count.

[B][COLOR=#FF0000][*][*](Thorn) Shard Storm: Summons a cloud of acidic poisonous shards that randomly strikes enemies within 15 meters. 6 strikes over 6 seconds. Each shard deals 1d3 poison and acid damage per character level. This consumes all Primal Charges, and the damage of each shard is increased by 25% per Primal Charge. If 3 or more Primal Charges are consumed, the bonus damage is doubled, and you gain Shard Deflection for 12 seconds. Shard Deflection: You gain 30% of your Maximum Hit Points as Temporary Hit Points. Cooldown: 5 Seconds. Activation Cost: 20 Seconds.

Shard Storm looks cool and it seemed to do a lot of damage. I was happy to have that ability.

The range in Epic Gianthold seemed to be much greater than 15 meters. This is a good thing. A character built on summons and charms likes to step aside and let his minions kill this filth. I need to be able to target beyond 15 meters

While I like the Shard Storm I didn't care for the builder/spender mechanic at all on this character. I felt rushed. Charming enemies is a bit more strategic/slow than nuking. I need time to set-up CC and let my summons engage first before I potentially draw aggro with a builder DOT. By then, my Primal Charges have dissipated. It was frustrating to not be able to enjoy the spenders consistently.

Primal Avatar really needs an activated ability with a long cool down (say 90 seconds) that grants 3 primal tokens if the destiny is to be used for slower gameplay like summons, charm, crowd control, instakill and even damage over time - or just a slower deliberate pace in general

[B][COLOR=#FF0000][*]Natural Evasion: Gain the Evasion Feat. Exclusive from other enhancements that grant this feat.

I was happy to be able to pick up evasion on my warlock

[B][COLOR=#FF0000][*]Shared Mantle: Your summons now also benefit from your Mantle of Nature. When the mantle triggers for them they have a chance to give their summoner a Primal Charge. This still uses your spell power or melee/ranged power to scale.

Even though this specifies "Summons" I had hoped it might work with charms - it did not.

Torc, would it be too unbalanced to extend this to charmed creatures as well?

[*][*](Thorn) Briar Patch: Summoned a greater thorn spirit to blast your foes with Acid, Poison, and Force using your casting stats. Remains bound to their summoning spot. Duration: 15 Seconds. Cooldown: 15 Seconds. Activation Cost: 50 Spell Points.]

I had difficulty making this work in Gianthold. The Thorn elemental seemed to have trouble deciding who to attack between charmed allies and giants who had made their saving throw. One one occasion, the Thorn Elemental fired off in the distance through a cliff wall at an unseen enemy. Mostly, the elemental stood around doing nothing. It worked best if a ran into the fray to cast - something I am not designed to do as a summoner/charmer.

I realize it is early and the bugs are not yet ironed out. Having said that, I would like more time to set up the elemental strategically to function like a turret before opening a door. Would it be possible to have a conditional duration in which the elemental sticks around until it makes 5 attacks or 30 seconds expires - whichever comes first. This would give it both immediate and strategic game play.

[QuantumFX]

Random thought: All of our Summons (Wolf/Defender/Turret/Primal Ally/etc.) should get the benefits of the character's Reaper points.

[rover223]

1 point 10d20 +3 to con/str/dex, 2 points 20d20 +4 to con/str/dext, 3 points +5 to con/str/dex 30d20 all damage affected by spell power

[Iriale]

Any comment from the devs about preserving the druid who can change seasons by not making exclusive paths, and not turning fire back into the best element, thanks to linking healing to fire?

For me these two things are the two big flaws in this ED. Seems that you are designing only thinking about sorcerer. Prepared spellcasters are not specialists.

[Pandjed]

Any comment from the devs about preserving the druid who can change seasons by not making exclusive paths, and not turning fire back into the best element, thanks to linking healing to fire?

For me these two things are the two big flaws in this ED. Seems that you are designing only thinking about sorcerer. Prepared spellcasters are not specialists.

So far none, and it would be a shame, because if you actually do change your seasons, the druid becomes quite fun and powerful, not even needing elemental immunity bypass.

While I do predict, that the draconic incarnate will get the true elemental specializations (and it will get poison [green] and negative [shadow] as well according to Lynnabel) primal avatar would be a good place to support specifc mechanics and array of spellpowers/damage types that fit different caster-classes more.
Like an Avatar of Seasons (which works with season mechanic and change its bonuses) for druids, Avatar of Divinity (Positive, Fire, Force, and Light) for clerics/FVS, and Avatar of Elementals (fire, ice, lightning, acid, poison) for spread out casters.

[Iriale]

So far none, and it would be a shame, because if you actually do change your seasons, the druid becomes quite fun and powerful, not even needing elemental immunity bypass.

While I do predict, that the draconic incarnate will get the true elemental specializations (and it will get poison [green] and negative [shadow] as well according to Lynnabel) primal avatar would be a good place to support specifc mechanics and array of spellpowers/damage types that fit different caster-classes more.
Like an Avatar of Seasons (which works with season mechanic and change its bonuses) for druids, Avatar of Divinity (Positive, Fire, Force, and Light) for clerics/FVS, and Avatar of Elementals (fire, ice, lightning, acid, poison) for spread out casters.

This, this, this.

We do not need two specialized caster EDs in a single element. Primal Avatar needs to be more general and support the druid that changes seasons, and incidentally those spellcasters who are not specialists in a single element.

[DarkSkysz]

Looking good. But the minimum required level sucks.

[CaptainSpacePony]

Primal charges last 10 seconds. Builders have 12 second cooldowns.
Underwhelming.

[LittleLexi]

I was thinking about this and I feel that rather than having reduced spell point costs strewn about this tree(Thrive/Epic Improved Metamagics)— it would be more fun and flavorful for one harnessing nature and the elements, to instead get temporary spell points equal to 20/40/60/80 per Primal Charge.

This might also leave room for a Summon Nature's Shrine ability in tier 3 or 4, that would work a little bit like a Rest of the Eladrin statue. The catch being: it can only be used once per dungeon. This might make the effect after resting abilities— that so far seem underwhelming— that little bit more viable.