First Look: U41 New Spells & Spell Changes

[Steelstar]

Hello! We're here today to talk about some new Spells and changes to Spells coming in Update 41. This adds seven new Wizard and Sorcerer spells, and upgrades the damage on quite a few of their other Damage spells; this is meant to boost Wizard and Sorcerer's overall DPS and fill some gaps in their casting rotations.


The version you see below is what will be on Lamannia when that comes up (timing still TBD), but in the meantime we'd love your feedback!


(And if you'd like more information, the Weekly Wednesday Livestream from this week showcases a discussion between myself and Cordovan about these changes!).


NEW LEVEL 1 WIZ/SORC SPELLS

• Fire Bolt
• Freezing Bolt
• Acid Bolt
• Electric Bolt

(Fire Bolt is a real D&D spell - We've kept the naming convention over to the others to reflect their similar nature and make it easy to read.)


Each of these fires a single-target bolt that does 1d6+2 damage of the appropriate element per caster level, to a max caster level of 10. They cost 2SP each at their base and have a 4.5 second cooldown (3.5 on Sorcerers) shared among all four spells (so realistically, you can only use one right now). These exist in the Wizard and Sorcerer spellbooks, and can be taken at level up. Scrolls of these will be available at scroll shops.

There are a few goals with these spells:

• Provide a spammable low-level nuking spell for several arcane builds at a low SP cost
• Help low-level elemental/nuker casters have more options
• Help fill out long-range casting rotations (most of the low-level damage spells are touch range, and some characters aren't built to handle that without dying)

NEW LEVEL 9 WIZ/SORC SPELLS

• Iceberg
  
  • (3.5 book Frostburn)
  • Drop a big ol' iceball on your target
  • Single Target Evocation Spell: 1d6+27 per Caster Level, Reflex Save for Half Damage. Max Caster Level 20.
  • 40 Spell Points
  
  
• Acid Well
  
  • (This doesn't exist in a P&P source; it came directly from Player's Council feedback.)
  • Acid bursts forth from the ground in an area the size of Snowball Swarm.
  • Area Conjuration Spell: 1d6+18 per Caster Level. Fortitude Save for Half Damage. Max Caster Level 20.
  • 40 Spell Points
  
  
• Thunderstroke
  
  • (From 4th Ed Arcane Power page 37)
  • A big ol' lightning strike to a single target.
  • Single Target Evocation Spell: 1d6+27 per Caster Level, Reflex Save for Half Damage. Max Caster Level 20.
  • 40 Spell Points

Upgraded Spells
We’re upgrading the player versions of several damage spells, as outlined below. The Max Caster Level of these spells will remain unchanged, and Monsters will continue casting the existing versions of the spells (so that we don’t get a sudden spike in enemy caster damage).


The spells that are improved generally follow all of these guidelines:

• They are Damage spells in the Wiz/Sorc spell book
• They do not confer extra effects (CC, etc)
• They do not have multiple projectiles that scale with caster level (Magic Missile, Frost Lance, etc)
• They are not persistent AOE spells (Cloudkill, etc)
• They are not DOT spells

Level 1:

• Acid Spray is now 1d6+1 per Caster Level.
• Burning Hands is now 1d6+1 per Caster Level.
• Shocking Grasp is now 1d6+2 per Caster Level.

Level 2:

• Scorch is now 1d6+2 per Caster Level.
• Snowball Swarm is now 1d6+2 per Caster Level.

Level 3:

• Acid Blast is now 1d6+3 per Caster Level.
• Fireball is now 1d6+3 per Caster Level.
• Lightning Bolt is now 1d6+3 per Caster Level.

Level 4:

• Fire Trap is now 1d6+4 per Caster Level.
• Negative Energy Burst is now 1d6+4 per Caster Level.

Level 5:

• Ball Lightning is now 1d6+5 per Caster Level.
• Cone of Cold is now 1d6+5 per Caster Level.

Level 6:

• Chain Lightning is now 1d6+6 per Caster Level.
• Otiluke's Freezing Sphere is now 1d6+6 per Caster Level.
• Necrotic Ray is now 1d6+12 per Caster Level.

Level 7:

• Delayed Blast Fireball is now 1d6+7 per Caster Level.

Level 8:

• Polar Ray is now 1d6+16 per Caster Level.

Level 9:

• Meteor Swarm now deals 1d3+1 Fire Damage per Caster Level and 1d2+1 Bludgeoning Damage per Caster Level on each meteor. It has a maximum caster level of 30.

[Steelstar]

FAQ:

Why weren't Lesser Death Aura, Death Aura, and most other Negative spells included?
We're going to get around to a Pale Master revision eventually, and we'd like to adjust those spells with that pass.

Why weren't (other spells) included here?
Probably because they didn't meet the guidelines above. Or because changing it to these standards would have been a net reduction in damage (lookin' at you, Niac's Cold Ray). We're not setting out to up-push all damaging spells game-wide; we're looking to upgrade Wizard and Sorcerer nuker spells specifically.

If other classes have access to these spells, will they get updated as well?
Yes! Everywhere those spells exist should get upgraded. For instance, Artificers get Lightning Bolt through Arcanotechnician, and Clerics can get it through Air Domain. These would both use the upgraded damage numbers.

Where does this put Wizards and Sorcerers relative to other caster nukers?
This does move up Wizard and Sorcerer's standing relative to other Arcane nukers (Druids, Arcanotechnicians, Clerics/Fvs, etc.). We're still gathering data (Lamannia will help with that), but we believe them to be slightly ahead of most other nukers now. They don't have healing (outside of PM) to fall back on, or a lot of the other resources that other nuking classes get; we're of the mind that should put them a little ahead.

[Tlorrd]

Interesting and first

[Kebtid]

What are cooldowns for those new spells?

[Sho-sa]

What are cooldowns for those new spells?

My reading was that they are on shared cooldown of 4.5 seconds (3.5 for sorcs).

Look for it around 12 lines down.

[Sam-u-r-eye]

What are cooldowns for those new spells?

I am also curious!!!!

[Steelstar]

What are cooldowns for those new spells?

The cooldowns are meant to be identical to Meteor Swarm: 6.5 seconds for Wizards, 3.5 seconds for Sorcerers.

That said, it doesn't look like those values are correct on Lamannia right now. We'll have that fixed for Preview 2.

[Captain_Wizbang]

They don't have healing (outside of PM) to fall back on, or a lot of the other resources that other nuking classes get; we're of the mind that should put them a little ahead.

Agreed.

The way the single target spells are dealing heavy damage is a LONG time coming. Nice work.

Lvl 9 Acid well is great for one reason alone, you listened to the PC.

[Fecerak]

I think not buffing dot spells (specifically the acid dot spells) might be a mistake. Acid savants are already likely the worst savant right now, and this update just puts them further behind.

If we categorize each elements spells into 3 tiers at higher levels (where tier 1 is really strong, tier 2 is nice CD fillers and tier 3 generally aren't going to be used) we get something like the following:

Tier 1:
Fire has Meteor Swarm, DFB, Fireball
Ice has Iceberg, Cone of Cold, Otiluke's and Polar Ray
Lightning has Thunderstroke, Ball Lightning, Chain Lightning and Lightning Bolt
Acid has Acid Blast, Acid Well

Tier 2:
Fire has Scorch, Scorching Ray and Fire Bolt
Ice has Frost Lance, Freezing Bolt, Snowball Swarm and Niac's Biting Cold
Lightning has Electric Bolt and Eladar's Electric Surge
Acid has Acid Bolt, Acid Rain and Black Dragon Bolt (and maybe Melf's, though that might be a stretch)

If you ignore 9th level spells which presumably have too long CDs to be spammed acid only really has 1 super solid spammable spell in Acid Blast, and that is a level 3 spell. As a result they fall far behind in damage output in terms of spammable aoe, and also isn't really (in my opinion anyways) getting much return for it with cold and lightning having comparable if not higher single target dps while being massively better in aoe options, and also having all their useful spells be evocation which means that their off-element spells are stronger due to not having to specialize their DC in a school that only has one type of damage spells.

To me it seems like acid needs 2 more tier 1 spells to keep up (fire is fine with only 3 tier 1 spells in my opinion as it has by far the strongest level 12 savant core for dps, and also has the most epic destiny and item synergy from what I've seen).

So my suggestion would be to do the following:
- Black Dragon bolt from 1d3 to 1d6+5 per caster level per hit (puts it at 3d6+15 over the duration, which is slightly higher than polar ray, but offset by the fact that polar ray's damage is more frontloaded. 1d6+4 per hit is also an option if 1d6+5 turns out to be too much).
- Add one more solid instant damage aoe acid spell at spell level 4, 5 or 6. Alternatively, instead of doing this increasing the damage of acid rain is also a viable alternative I think, though being careful with this spell is wise, as it doesn't take all that much to make it too strong because of its multihit AoE properties (though unlike firewall it at least only lasts 8 seconds). Potentially an option would be to allow Acid Rain to become really strong, leave black dragon bolt alone, and have Acid Rain be the reason as to why you'd want to be an acid savant instead of any other savant.


EDIT:
Another way to look at it is that acid savant already likely was the weakest savant before the pass, and in the pass you updated only 2 acid spells (and noone will use acid spray at endgame), compared to 4-5 spells from the other 3 elements, which just puts acid further behind than it already was.

[Feralthyrtiaq]

This 4.5s (3.5s) does not make these new level 1 elemental bolt type spells anywhere close to spammable.

They really should be closer to the Druid's Produce Flame in casting speed and CD for them to be "spammable".


Please...consider 3 seconds Wiz and 2 seconds for Sorcerer. Makes much more sense given your own goals.

[Alled78]

The problem for caster IS mainly at lvl 29 30
U are not focusing on that

These changes are going to wrong directiion in my opinion

1)we need an Epic spell power multiplicator or anything similar
2) consider to remove Max caster lvl
3)revisit spell power reaper tree, now are useless
4) Revisit metamagic
5) REVISIT arcane epic destinies they are horrible


Actual changes are good only for heroic...
What IS the ssg aim with this rework? Doing more heroic past lives?

[Nubom70]

The problem for caster IS mainly at lvl 29 30
U are not focusing on that

Oh no, don't ask for them to "adjust" anything level 29-30. You'll get MONK'D.

Dev Team: Hmm, with that ONE raid item, casters are doing 7% more damage than our one day of testing showed. Better remove 71.4% of their base damage in heroics. They'll be OK.

[slarden]

The problem for caster IS mainly at lvl 29 30
U are not focusing on that

These changes are going to wrong directiion in my opinion

1)we need an Epic spell power multiplicator or anything similar
2) consider to remove Max caster lvl
3)revisit spell power reaper tree, now are useless
4) Revisit metamagic
5) REVISIT arcane epic destinies they are horrible


Actual changes are good only for heroic...
What IS the ssg aim with this rework? Doing more heroic past lives?

You are right it will help some at level 30 but doesn't solve the issue. There are issues with the scaling by skull level at higher skulls and the limited spell point pool is still an issue for non-warlocks.

[bsquishwizzy]

The problem for caster IS mainly at lvl 29 30
U are not focusing on that

These changes are going to wrong directiion in my opinion

1)we need an Epic spell power multiplicator or anything similar
2) consider to remove Max caster lvl
3)revisit spell power reaper tree, now are useless
4) Revisit metamagic
5) REVISIT arcane epic destinies they are horrible


Actual changes are good only for heroic...
What IS the ssg aim with this rework? Doing more heroic past lives?

^ What he said.

I've been running wizzies in many forms nor for years. Non-instakill casters literally get hobbled in epic levels. Spells do not scale, and they become a blue-bar drain. Yeah, there was a S-M-A-L-L...S-M-A-L-L fix for this sometime back with the epic feats, but it didn't go far enough. And magister? Pffth! It's OK for DC casters (and it needs moar spell pen added), but for damage-dealers it sucks.


Lastly - let me reiterate that adding more ice / fire / acid / sonic / whatever damage spells aren't needed if you provide the advice given above. However, the fact that the Illusion line just sort of lingers out there being half-done is almost criminal. I have a second-life gnome Illusionist that I run - it is one of my FAVORITE characters to play. Between Color Spray and two PKs (if I decided to do Illusion in the AM tree), he's as fun as all get-out. But...it could be more and better than what it is now with a better variety of spells. Flesh out the Illusion line before you go off and add more evocation / conjuration spells - you have ENOUGH of them already.

[mikarddo]

Assuming a standard cooldown what kind of dps are we looking at for a dps specced well geared pure sorc at level 30 with lots of pastlives and rxp using these updated spells? It looks pretty low to me compared to well build melee but maybe my technical knowledge is flawed.

[Pilgrim1]

I know this patch is targeted to arcain damage but caster druids, more than any other caster, live and die by there damage. Furthermore druids have such few diversity of damaging spells avilable to them. In addition there are no extra t9 spells for druids. Thus i would say please add the tear 9 arcain spells to druids as well.


Second point: Arcane damage really falls of in high end reaper content. What is neaded (along with these spell improvements) is to have a lvl 27, 28, 29, and/or 30 feet which SIGNIFICANTLY increases spell potential damage.

Thank you.

[Silverleafeon]

New 9th level spells -- cheers and hoorays !!!!!!



Spam able first level spells that are supported by

Echoes of Power is a temporary SP regeneration that begins once a character drops below 12 SP. It will restore 4 SP every 6 seconds until you have at least 12 SP again. The effect can put you over 12 SP if you have more than 0 when it begins to regenerate your SP (for example, if you start with 3, it will recharge to 15).

Given 2 sp per 4.5 seconds, a character at zero sp would look like thus:

Wizard
0 seconds at 0 sp - no cast
6 seconds at 4 sp - cast Bolt
10.5 seconds at 2 sp - cast Bolt
12 seconds at 4 sp - on cooldown
15 seconds at 4 sp - cast Bolt
18 seconds at 6 sp - on cooldown
20.5 seconds at 6 sp - cast Bolt
24 seconds at 8 sp - on cooldown
Etc....

Sorcerer
0 seconds at 0 sp - no cast
6 seconds at 4 sp - cast Bolt
9.5 seconds at 2 sp - cast Bolt
12 seconds at 4 sp - on cooldown
13 seconds at 4 sp - cast Bolt
16.5 seconds at 2 sp - cast Bolt
18 seconds at 4 sp - on cooldown
20 seconds at 4 sp - cast Bolt
23.5 seconds at 2 sp - cast Bolt
24 seconds at 4 sp - on cooldown
Etc....

Since the Wizard/Sorcerer will never run out of sp, perhaps you could compare to the "Produce Flame" which has a higher Max Caster Level and faster cooldown and adjust towards that goal?
For starters you could reduced said cooldown by 1 second at least, and increase Max Caster Level by 2 levels at least?


Increasing damage of above listed spells - also very good idea.
Well done there.



I do feel like you are still holding to the barriers of Metamagic and Max Caster Levels that make spellcasters weak at end game, particularly Reaper.

Say if these spells were supported by a set of Metamagics that apply for free but scale according to character level instead of flat bonuses?

[Enoach]

I think not buffing dot spells (specifically the acid dot spells) might be a mistake. Acid savants are already likely the worst savant right now, and this update just puts them further behind.

...

I would admit that I would like to have seen them modify the Eladar's Electric Surge, Niac's Biting Cold and Black Dragon Bolt to have stacks that work like Arcane Pulse in that the timer removes one stack at a time instead of just canceling all stacks. Keeping the heroic spells to 3 stacks maximum.

[Enoach]

I did want to applaud the "start" of adding more spells to the game.

I do feel that part of the problem that DPS casters face is that there are a limited number of spell choices in the game. Many popular choices being not optimal all the time (worst possible save or damage type for the situation)

Now more spells won't cure all the ills but more spells will help casters be more optimal in much the same way a melee/range character can choose the best weapon/ammo for the situation.

---
I disagree that DPS casters are not viable in upper content. I've been a long time caster, many times discussing with other casters I've found that they are suffering from self-inflicted limitation, some in how they use their spell points and others in choosing the best spell(s) for the situation, and simply over-casting.

Now I will admit I have the benefit of experience with the Wizard class from D&D Basic and early days of casting in DDO where learning how to use SP effectively was paramount to being a good caster. So I've gained knowledge that is often overlooked by players.


Don't get me wrong, I like the direction they are going with upping spell damage and adding in a potential SP/Dmg increase with some new spells. But I also understand the difference between viable and optimal and find most times when people site "not viable" they really mean "not optimal".

[Thar]

I would admit that I would like to have seen them modify the Eladar's Electric Surge, Niac's Biting Cold and Black Dragon Bolt to have stacks that work like Arcane Pulse in that the timer removes one stack at a time instead of just canceling all stacks. Keeping the heroic spells to 3 stacks maximum.

I second the motion... good idea as they are not cheap to cast so it's worthy of the bump in damage.