Dead Raids

[Arkat]

From another thread:

No matter the broken game mechanics, moldy quest loot and dead raids left in its wake.

It'd be nice if they found a way to make some of the older raids (TotD, FoTP, FoT, MoD, DotJ, Leg TS, Leg HOX, etc.) attractive to run again. Maybe create another kind of rune that would drop in those that we could turn in for cool new items or something else we'd like, like tomes.

I was thinking about this further. Maybe my suggested new runes idea could also be used to improve existing raid loot or maybe turn the runes in with old raid loot for better versions?

Lynnabel has shown SSG has the tech to do that with the Schism Shard turn-ins for better versions of Wave, Whelm, and Blackrazor. Why not do it for older raid loot as well?

[hinton]

Time to get rid of raids. Make a harder tier of quests and convert all existing raids to that standard.

[MaeveTuohy]

Time to get rid of raids. Make a harder tier of quests and convert all existing raids to that standard.

On the contrary, time to make more raids and for greater than 12 players, and ensire they can be done by averahe pugs, not just the uber crowd.

[hinton]

Most players of DDO now play either solo or in a small tight group. Most players(not forum posters) don't care to raid. Making us raid to get the highest tier gear causes a larger separation in power and game enjoyment. Raids are so 2010...

[scipiojedi]

Most players of DDO now play either solo or in a small tight group. Most players(not forum posters) don't care to raid. Making us raid to get the highest tier gear causes a larger separation in power and game enjoyment. Raids are so 2010...

that's why they made Slavers gear so powerful....

[MaeveTuohy]

Most players of DDO now play either solo or in a small tight group. Most players(not forum posters) don't care to raid. Making us raid to get the highest tier gear causes a larger separation in power and game enjoyment. Raids are so 2010...

You have described my play style precisely. Mostly I solo. I play once a week with 3 friends. I

But I also raid, exclusively with lfm groups of similarly midtier players.

The only problem with raids is that in recent years they appear to have been designed principally to challenge high end players and sell them raid bypass timers. It's the design philosophy that isn't working for the average player, not the concept.

[Cantor]

On the contrary, time to make more raids and for greater than 12 players, and ensire they can be done by averahe pugs, not just the uber crowd.

Please no. Coming from old school mmos, I was super psyched that DDO limited raids to 12 people. 40+ people no thanks.

[blerkington]

I would like to see older raids rehabilitated too, so there was more reason to run them at cap. There's some very good content there which is sitting largely unused.

Looking at loot is one way. But apart from increasing the power of existing items, other rewards like xp tokens, more guild renown, sentient weapon xp, a better chance at store items, etc, might also be useful as rewards too. Adding a common currency for item purchase as some players have recently suggested was a good idea.

The other thing we've largely lost now is the old connection between reincarnation and raiding. Once upon a time we could get loot from raiding that was quite useful for heroic lives. So maybe there is scope for some form of reward that is useful for heroic levelling too.

I'd also like to see the level restrictions relaxed on lower level raids for capped characters wanting to try reaper runs.

Thanks.

[GramercyRiff]

Raids make no sense in a game that is supposed to be Dungeons and Dragons. It was always a bad idea to have raids.

What DnD game has ever had THIRTEEN people at a table?

[vryxnr]

I've always thought it's be sweet (and a good way to revitalize older raids) to have a raid-based saga or something like that.

Though I must also comment about the list of 'dead' raids given above. I see TotDW and FoTP run almost weekly still, and legendary TS and Legendary HoX every once in a while too (and usually fill up nicely due to lack of flagging and ease of access). FoT less so but still see it pop up now and again (good source of Coms of Heroism for upgrading low epic weapons and cormyrian dragon armor). MoD, DotJ, LoB, and MA I almost never see though, so yeah. Even ascension chamber (heroic abbot) I haven't seen in ages. Heroic Shroud I barely see as well, but seems like most who want to make heroic greensteel simply solo it now.

[MaeveTuohy]

Raids make no sense in a game that is supposed to be Dungeons and Dragons. It was always a bad idea to have raids.

What DnD game has ever had THIRTEEN people at a table?

If the game is supposed to match the tabletop experience that closely, should it also prevent soloing? Because that would kill the game.

This is not tabletop pnp (which I still play) .

[hinton]

If the game is supposed to match the tabletop experience that closely, shouls it prevent soloing? Because that would kill the game.

This is not tabletop pnp (which I still play) .

Solo adventures have been published.
At one time no dm adventures were published as well using a "magic" pen".

[lillentle]

Raids make no sense in a game that is supposed to be Dungeons and Dragons. It was always a bad idea to have raids.

What DnD game has ever had THIRTEEN people at a table?

That’s because DnD players don’t have 13 friends, so we mass here online.

Some people are saying to get rid of raids, didn’t know some people wanted that... I don’t.

You’re right, it sucks that so many of these fun raids are just dead, all the hard work the devs and creation teams put in just to let it die, but it’s not just the raids, there are sooo many quests that are just as dead as the raids, sometimes Poole don’t play the content simply because it takes 30 minutes to get 15k XP compared to the 30k you can get from a 10 minute quest, boost the XP and people will play them.

What kind of business strategy is adding content that makes other content worthless, or even letting old content go to waste.

[MaeveTuohy]

Please no. Coming from old school mmos, I was super psyched that DDO limited raids to 12 people. 40+ people no thanks.

I think the game (though maybe not the hamsters they use) has room for this kind of variety. I get that you wouldn't take part, and that's cool.

[blerkington]

I think the game (though maybe not the hamsters they use) has room for this kind of variety. I get that you wouldn't take part, and that's cool.

Those large scale raids can get very hard to coordinate. I wouldn't mind one or two, but it may be hard to fill groups and have a good chance of completion even on lower difficulties.

The other thing is it wasn't that long ago the developers were talking about reducing group sizes to combat lag. Maybe the other improvements they've made since then would allow larger group sizes now, I just don't know.

Thanks.

[Tlorrd]

I would love to be able to participate in raids ... however, due to my schedule I find it hard to find raid groups, other than occasional pug. I usually play daily for 2-3 hours, but again d/t to my schedule find it hard to find a static group to run with since I might miss days here and there. Thus I am forced to solo now and give up the raid loot ... additionally as I took a break from the game for 6-8 months, I'm now catching up on racial TRs and reaper points, etc. ... thus I never really have a character at cap for any extended period of time ... I run 2 characters since that is all I have time to invest in and really I'd just run 1 to maximize that one, but I do like playing at least 2 different play styles.

thus although I would really like all those +1s and +2 that raid loot gives above regular new loot ... so far I'm ok with missing it since I can't find the right group or time to play at cap due to the hamster wheel that I'm trying to catch up on. So far, the history has recently been that raid loot becomes like normal loot within 6-12 months ... I imagine with Sharn on the horizon the devs will need to outdo themselves and make sweeter loot ... thus I can wait for that expansion and not feel too bad that I haven't pulled the latest and greatest because by the time I catch up on the hamster wheel, those stats on raid loot will make it to normal loot.

It's sad in many different ways ... some on my part for not having time to devote to make all the +1s and +2s, but also on the game side as well with power creep. Although like everything, maybe its a double edged sword, thus I know I will gain certain benefits because power creep will continue.

[Slazinger1]

On the contrary, time to make more raids and for greater than 12 players, and ensire they can be done by averahe pugs, not just the uber crowd.

Didn't they try that with the Spectral Dragon raid back in the old Mabar? Was a what, 24 person raid and was completely unplayable because of lag.

[TedSandyman]

I hate that I can't finish my epic green steel items or the thunder-forged stuff because of how rarely those raids get run. I have been on and off DDO all day today and did not see one epic shroud or deathworm/thunderpeak.

I'm not saying they don't come up, so don't start disagreeing, but they don't come up often and rarely when I happen to be on and I am on soloing quite a bit. I see shrouds occasionally, maybe once every week or two. I can't remember when I saw a deathworm lfm.

And truthfully, most of the raids I really don't like anyway. Too many complicated rules. Dont stand here or you'll die. Dont stand over there or you die. Run for your life or you die. Don't hit that monster or you die. Hit that monster or you''ll die. Kill all these together or start over. Kill all of these apart or start over. I end up just following along most of the time and hoping I don't do something to get everyone killed.

You know, I started this to beg for a way to somehow get materials solo. I know many will complain that getting the materials is what forces people into the groups. And if you can get the materials in a different way then people wont run the raids. But, you know what, people just aren't running the raids anyway.

So I log in and think, what can I do here at level 30? Check the LFMs. Nothing. Well, there isn't much else to do. Go solo a few things on elite or hard. Maybe check the auction house for a while. Go make a sandwich maybe and check back later.

It'd be really cool if I could go farm for a legendary large devil scale or legendary length of infernal chain while I'm waiting for an LFM to pop up. Whatever I would hope from this ability to farm, it would have to be at a much, much slower rate than running the raid. But, if the raid is never run, it wont really matter. I just feel like a whole lot of work and a whole lot of coding and really neat stuff is tied up in raids and it just seems such a shame that there just doesn't seem to be a way for me to get at any of that stuff.

I've been on now, while typing this and a bit before, for about 3 hours. And I saw one Legendary Tempest Spine. Right now there's a Killing Time group up, but it's been abandoned. For some reason someone is solo farming subterrane - Central. There's a guild recruiting. That's all the LFMs in my range. Think I'll go get some coffee. Looks like a looooong night.

Nah, I'll probably just go to bed. Check again in the morning before the football games.

[hinton]

I hate that I can't finish my epic green steel items or the thunder-forged stuff because of how rarely those raids get run. I have been on and off DDO all day today and did not see one epic shroud or deathworm/thunderpeak.

I'm not saying they don't come up, so don't start disagreeing, but they don't come up often and rarely when I happen to be on and I am on soloing quite a bit. I see shrouds occasionally, maybe once every week or two. I can't remember when I saw a deathworm lfm.

And truthfully, most of the raids I really don't like anyway. Too many complicated rules. Dont stand here or you'll die. Dont stand over there or you die. Run for your life or you die. Don't hit that monster or you die. Hit that monster or you''ll die. Kill all these together or start over. Kill all of these apart or start over. I end up just following along most of the time and hoping I don't do something to get everyone killed.

You know, I started this to beg for a way to somehow get materials solo. I know many will complain that getting the materials is what forces people into the groups. And if you can get the materials in a different way then people wont run the raids. But, you know what, people just aren't running the raids anyway.

So I log in and think, what can I do here at level 30? Check the LFMs. Nothing. Well, there isn't much else to do. Go solo a few things on elite or hard. Maybe check the auction house for a while. Go make a sandwich maybe and check back later.

It'd be really cool if I could go farm for a legendary large devil scale or legendary length of infernal chain while I'm waiting for an LFM to pop up. Whatever I would hope from this ability to farm, it would have to be at a much, much slower rate than running the raid. But, if the raid is never run, it wont really matter. I just feel like a whole lot of work and a whole lot of coding and really neat stuff is tied up in raids and it just seems such a shame that there just doesn't seem to be a way for me to get at any of that stuff.

I've been on now, while typing this and a bit before, for about 3 hours. And I saw one Legendary Tempest Spine. Right now there's a Killing Time group up, but it's been abandoned. For some reason someone is solo farming subterrane - Central. There's a guild recruiting. That's all the LFMs in my range. Think I'll go get some coffee. Looks like a looooong night.

Nah, I'll probably just go to bed. Check again in the morning before the football games.

look at who on your server. How many of those people raid? What percent is that? It's time to end raids. SSG stop making raids. Don't cater to that small percentage create content for the majority. Not the loudmouthed elitests.

[Enoach]

Raids make no sense in a game that is supposed to be Dungeons and Dragons. It was always a bad idea to have raids.

What DnD game has ever had THIRTEEN people at a table?

Well, maybe not thirteen people at the table but I've been in a few campaigns where we have been a part of an army, leading them in combat or have needed to lead a group of NPCs to safety after freeing them from a dungeon. This has turned our party of five into large dinner parties .

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As for raids. I've taken a different approach then most. For many raids disappeared from their quest cycles because they required either a certain type of character/playstyle to solo or they just didn't like the idea of waiting for people to join as the pool of flagged character began to dwindle (more players concentrating on a single character because the feel that is the best approach, etc.)

So to that end I lead one night a week (currently Saturday) where I post in advance on our Guild forums one Heroic Raid and One Epic/Legendary Raid. Just as a Note when I'm asked about what level restrictions placed on these raids my answer is "flagged". As we run these for fun and learning as well as simple comradery.

I then encourage during the week any flagging needed. When we do not have enough to fully fill the raid we open up to others - These are treated as Teaching/Learning Raids where everyone is encourage to participate in every aspect.

To that end I feel that many raids irregardless of their loot standing can still be revitalized if groups are available and open - Much like they were in the "Raiding Hay days" of DDO.

As a Guild leader of a prominent Guild on Khyber I encourage all Guild leaders to look at establishing something similar as I've felt it is the Guild that can help create the environment that can create a safe learning experience for its members, so that they are confident enough to join others in raids as they understand how they can contribute to its successful completion. Or if anything know where they shouldn't stand