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Thread: Loot Design

  1. #1
    Community Member Robai's Avatar
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    Default Loot Design

    Dear Devs,

    Please pay attention to future loot design. I'd like to share some of my thoughts (I hope it's not too late).

    The main loot design axioms:
    1. Random loot should never have higher vertical power than Named (especially Raid) items.
    2. Each Adventure Pack/Event should have some unique bonus on loot, which is not available in any other packs/events.
    3. Random loot should also have something unique that is not available elsewhere.
    4. Augments should also have something unique that is not available elsewhere.
    5. Crafting systems (Cannith, GS, Stone of Change, etc.) should also have something unique that is not available elsewhere.


    Some examples in each category:
    1. Guardian's Gauntlets gives +8 Con (and only that) at lvl 15, no random loot has such deep vertical power atm on live. This is very good, the only wrong part here is that this item has 100% drop rate (it would be much more fun with 25% drop rate, it would be still very high drop rate). Despite that no random loot should ever have higher bonus than +7 stat at lvl 20 (or lower lvl), because many named items have +7 stat bonus at lvl 20 or lvl 21 (some lvl 20 items only have +6 Con at lvl 20, like Epic Kundarak Warding Bracers).

    2. I'm not sure if Random loot still have some unique bonuses left.
    3. Looks like Spooky Augments are the only augments that give a unique bonus, which is available on augments only. The Master's Gift gives 5% enhancement bonus to XP. I think it's not stacking with VoM or Mantle or PGIS.
    4. Stone of Change is a perfect example since all recipes are unique and none of the bonuses available elsewhere. I'm not sure if Cannith crafting has any unique bonus, maybe except for masterful shard that also lowers minimum level of some craftable named items (ex. some runearms and house C challenge heroic items). Greensteel still has some unique bonuses left, like Con-Op, etc. (I hope that new random loot items won't have such things after overhaul)


    Things that are going to the wrong direction:
    • I don't like that Deathblock is so easily available now. Random items used to have high minimum lvl if they had DB on them. After some random loot overhaul ML dropped by 4 or so. On top of that there is ML8 augment now. All of that made items like Silver Flame Talisman useless (not to mention that Protection from Evil never worked on it). Now many items have DB on them and new planned loot always have an item with DB (this the wrong part, especially since we have DB augments, which can fix that easily).
    • All Incorporeal monsters lost their ability to be incorporeal since 99% of players have either Ethereal or Ghostly items (especially in epics). This thing is not rare at all as it used to be. The thing is that even if you did miss a monster 50% of time then you'd still kill it without any problem. I mean players don't even need to have Ghost touch or Ghostbane weapons. I hope that new augments or new random loot items won't have Ethereal or Ghostly. My main toon is wearing 3 items with Ghostly and non of them I'm wearing for Ghostly: Cloak of Night for DR, Epic Ethereal Bracers for Deadly and Epic Golden Guile for Improved Deception).
    • After looking at new Randomized Loot and Randomized Loot Look Two I don't know where to begin with. Most of the stuff there is so wrong. +9 Str at lvl 20? +14 Str and +7 Ins Str on one random item (even if that were ML30 item, this would be insane)?
    • Insightful or Exceptional or Quality bonuses should be on named items only. Maybe on high lvl random items they could exist, but only if they have higher ML than equivalent Augments. That is +2 Ins bonus should appear on ML25 or higher lvl items only. +3 Ins (or higher) bonus should not exist on random loot at all (since no such augments, but ML32 would be OK, i.e. only with wondrous craftsmanship they should drop as ML30). As for Exceptional bonuses they should be on named items only (we have also +1 Exc augments, don't need more). If you put Quality bonuses on random loot then LOL, you'll make useless NEW items in new packs already (not to mention nullifying the whole set bonuses, which was a unique thing in those packs).


    Some thoughts about Power Creep
    • Why Power Creep is a bad thing for the game? Because that results in too easy game, too boring, players might leave the game. To compensate that Devs will have to spend additional time giving buffs to mobs/traps or create new difficulties, even create new mechanics, etc. (so, more power creep results in more work for Devs without an actual benefit)
    • When new packs are released new items appears. Some of those items should be more useful than previously existed since players want to enjoy new loot.
      That's how Power Creep grows naturally. It's not a bad thing if it grows very slowly (the growth is unavoidable though). Keep in mind that players have to buy those packs or be vip in order to have that stuff (or buy from AH/ASAH if it's possible, but those who have packs/are vips will enjoy the loot they can sell/make a gift to a friend/etc.).
    • Each random loot overhaul ended up to increased power creep. IMO there should never be random loot overhaul. If some specific item Enhancements are too weak on random loot then it should be fixed, while making sure it's not better than similar things on named items. I don't mind completely new stuff on random items though (if not OP at level).
    • New random loot overhaul incoming with a huge power creep increase (it's on Lamania, I hope that Devs will have sane mind and properly fix things before it comes live).
    Loot Design, S/S/S system, TR Cache Button, The exact trap DCs in EE HH, A guide for DDO-ML, Unknown Heroes: 3rd place, Welcome to Orien: /joinchannel Titan
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  2. #2
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    Yep, I agree with everything you've said there.

    In terms of random loot, I think there's a good question about how often you should find good items?

    How much random loot do we see?
    I'd say we see potentially 10-20 but most likely around 12-14 pieces of random loot each, per quest. 1-2 per chest, so let's say around 5 in chests per quest (some higher, a lot maybe only 1 for the quest, not counting consumables, gems, etc), and 10 or more in the end reward list?

    Adequate items
    For a completely new player, without a stock of good named items, they should probably find something new that they can use every quest or two, 1/5 random items that are solid and useful bonuses at level, and around 1/4 of them might fit our new player's build, to get that ratio. Nobody much would buy these on the auction house though.

    Above average items
    For a veteran player, with a bunch of good things already, they can't be finding new stuff that's worth keeping every quest, so we're looking at more like a couple of items per level that they might fit in around their existing gear. How many quests you do per level depends a lot on how many xp boosts you use and whether you just stick to the high xp quests or not, but we'll say around 16 quests based on 50k xp per quest in epic levels and 800k per level. So 1/25 items that are above average and useful, around 1/4 of which might fit our veteran player's build, these kinds of items might sell for a bit of platinum on the auction house.


    Named-item equivalents
    Probably a couple of these in an epic life is enough, that's about how often I find new named loot that I might use as a veteran player. Okay, that's the items we fit in around existing named loot. What about items that are good enough to be slotted first and have other loot fitted around them? These should be on par with weaker named items, but not raid loot, generally speaking. That's once every 16x5=90 quests, or 1/1000 items or so. We'll still see an item like this often enough to scrutinize our end reward lists, but not so often that they just become the new normal. We'd probably use named items instead mostly, but they'd be good enough to look forward to. These would sell for reasonably high platinum amounts or minimal astral shards on auction houses, I guess.

    Extra-powerful items [but more unique]
    I think it's worth having the potential for items on par with better named items or even raid loot, but these should be something to dream about. I might complete 15 past lives in a year, and I would still be excited by random loot if I got an item this good once a year. Something that might have an unusual combination of good abilities that inspires me to make a new build around it, or that just has more abilities than usual, or something I wouldn't normally get at level. If you don't need it, something to sell for a lot of astral shards. Around 1/100,000 items in this category might be about right.

    Lottery winning items
    If there's a remote possibility of something even better that makes people on your server jealous, at a probability more like 1/100,000,000, then that works too. Let people win the lottery sometimes.

    How are those numbers? I feel like my assumptions may be way off there, but not sure.

    And other items...
    The important thing here, is that 80% or more of random loot can be almost complete garbage - caster bonuses on a greataxe, listen skill, elemental absorption on armor [but hey, a heroic elemental fire absorption with resist fire and insightful resist fire as a lucky bonus effect would sure be worth keeping around, wouldn't it?], lower than expected stat bonuses at level, etc etc. Don't try and make everything useful, we see enough random loot that we want the decent stuff to feel good, and we want the good stuff to shine. Fun is continuing to play that slot machine of hunting down chests and opening them, not getting everything we want right away, and not throwing out the good thing we only just found yesterday.
    Nistafa on Khyber

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robai View Post
    [*] Random loot should never have higher vertical power than Named (especially Raid) items.
    What do you mean by vertical power?

    Given that named loot now seems to have a minimum of 3 and sometimes many more properties, I think for example the following is ok:
    ML 30 named item drops with int +12 and 5 other properties
    ML 30 random loot drops with +13 or +14 int only

    My strong preference would be that the ML random loot doesn't ALWAYS drop with +14 int, but rather this is a very small percentage chance to occur. It would even be ok for the item to have 2 additional effects, but again in the vast majority of cases, a +14 ML 30 int item (which should be rare to start with) should have mediocre other bonuses. The 1 in a million "lottery" result is an item with 3 effects all equivalent to the +14 int in power.
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  4. #4
    Community Member Robai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobbinB View Post
    What do you mean by vertical power?

    Given that named loot now seems to have a minimum of 3 and sometimes many more properties, I think for example the following is ok:
    ML 30 named item drops with int +12 and 5 other properties
    ML 30 random loot drops with +13 or +14 int only
    Your second item has stronger vertical power than the first item since the main bonus is higher.
    Your first item has stronger horizontal power than the second item since the main bonus is only a bit weaker, but it has 5 more properties (assuming they are actually useful things).

    DC Wizard will obviously go for the second item since MAX Int is the most important thing for him, the rest stuff he will put on other slots.
    If highest Int drops on random loot then no point to farm raids etc.

    Starting with necro4 named loot has too much stuff of them, on top of that they have augment slots.
    If new named loot will have many properties then more properties won't really matter since you'll have everything that matters already anyway. This is a wrong direction for named items.

    Named loot should have the strongest vertical power, not random loot.
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  5. #5
    Community Member Lanhelin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robai View Post
    (…)
    If highest Int drops on random loot then no point to farm raids etc.
    (…)
    Named loot should have the strongest vertical power, not random loot.
    I do not agree. I maybe could agree if DDO was designed like many other MMOs with no TR concept and item-spiral, where every new content makes items from former content useless, where all is about itemization and the actual raids are the hardest content to beat. But the situation is different: Items become less useful on a certain character level, but never completely useless and again very useful in the next life at certain levels.
    The randomness of stats on items also creates the possibility to vary the items in the other slots. E.g. I can find a +max Con belt but then certainly have no need for another belt with +max Dex. I'll want to get bracers with +max Dex or a ring or a trinket, etc. But I also can find a helmet with +max Con and in that case the +max Dex belt probably would be great to have too. If only specific named items were the strongest, this would produce many same looking toons, similar to raid tier wearers in other MMOs. A/o it would create the need to design a specific named item for every slot and every stat and every max stat tier.

    Also a lot of named (raid) items, that currently are bta then probably must become btc on acquire to prevent first lifer bis-alts, that in this case wouldn't need to do any raids anymore.

    Quest difficulties would have to become easier, adjusted to "weaker" random/quest rewards (lower DCs and so on), because the need to have raid items certainly never will be the prerequisite to complete higher quests - but this could lead to older raids becoming much less attractive. Say, Chronoscope has named items with +3 to stats, but the level 7-9 quests could generate items that give +4. Tempest Spine gives +5, but level 11-13 quests give +6, and so on. Why should I play a raid when I can just do higher quests that reward with better items? It would be another thing, when random/quest items would not increase any stats at all - only then all raids would stay attractive, but also become a must to play. And there are also players who do not like to raid. Then what about them?

    I think a change in this direction would have way more disadvantages than advantages.

  6. #6
    Scourge of Slayers FAQ's Avatar
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    You and I, we think alike. Great post. +1000 if I could.

    Oh and also, we need more bank space!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flavilandile View Post
    This is how it should scale: Random loot < Named Loot < Raid Named Loot.
    The Trophy Room A great idea. Please do this devs!

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robai View Post
    Your second item has stronger vertical power than the first item since the main bonus is higher.
    Your first item has stronger horizontal power than the second item since the main bonus is only a bit weaker, but it has 5 more properties (assuming they are actually useful things).

    DC Wizard will obviously go for the second item since MAX Int is the most important thing for him, the rest stuff he will put on other slots.
    If highest Int drops on random loot then no point to farm raids etc.

    Starting with necro4 named loot has too much stuff of them, on top of that they have augment slots.
    If new named loot will have many properties then more properties won't really matter since you'll have everything that matters already anyway. This is a wrong direction for named items.

    Named loot should have the strongest vertical power, not random loot.
    Thanks for your clarification. I can now state that I completely disagree about the vertical power idea, since it isn't in touch with how affix-inflated DDOs named items have become.

    Take for example the named item "Epic Belt of Thoughtful Remembrance":
    Deathblock VII, Con 11, Conc 20, Res +11, Dodge +11, Greater Regen, 2 Augments* ML 27

    So if we go with your approach of can't have higher vertical power on random loot, than ML 27 items cannot have better than any of those individual properties. So the best possible random ML 27 loot could only have 3 of those properties at best. The only way such a piece of random loot could be useful is if it either has unique properties absolutely not available in named loot or maybe in rare cases where you have an item slot where no named item seems to fit and you happen to get the perfect combination of attributes that fit that slot perfectly (all assuming that the attributes you would want are possible on that piece of loot.)

    In other words, random loot would only be a filler for your perfect named item gear setup or for placing a unique affix not available on your otherwise optimal gear setup. I think random loot should have the potential to outshine named at a very rare drop rate, otherwise what's the excitement in opening random loot chests?

    I also disagree since for example if you were to replace Con 11 with Int 11 on the Epic belt my wizard would not wear a random +12 int belt or +13 int belt (should such a thing exist) over that item, unless I could get the additional attributes (which are pretty sweet) covered by other items. Maybe some people would, but that's what makes it interesting, different peeps have different views on min/maxing their toons. Make +11 the max int that can fall on an ML 27 item and there isn't even a choice to be made.

    It is absolutely critical, however, that the probability of +12 int falling on a ML 27 item be extremely extremely rare, otherwise your point about "what is the point of farming named" becomes spot on. Which is why I'm extremely troubled about the proposed new system, it seems that +12 int on an ML 27 item might become COMMON instead of just POSSIBLE (but so is snow in July too).
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  8. #8
    Community Member Robai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanhelin View Post
    The randomness of stats on items also creates the possibility to vary the items in the other slots. E.g. I can find a +max Con belt but then certainly have no need for another belt with +max Dex. I'll want to get bracers with +max Dex or a ring or a trinket, etc. But I also can find a helmet with +max Con and in that case the +max Dex belt probably would be great to have too. If only specific named items were the strongest, this would produce many same looking toons, similar to raid tier wearers in other MMOs. A/o it would create the need to design a specific named item for every slot and every stat and every max stat tier.
    If all stats would drop for all (or almost all) slots in random drops then it would be boring. I mean there would be no game for loot strategy.
    Btw, I also don't really like the idea of flexible shards in cannith crafting, but since they require high crafting lvls (and they bound) then it's OK.
    Max Stat should not be on random loot, not to mention availability on any slot.
    If only specific named items would have max stat at that lvl then why it's a problem? Yes, if you were lucky to get that item then you'd enjoy it, but many others won't have it yet.
    Keep in mind that new packs are released from time to time and eventually you can see that specific max Stat options on other slots too (random loot still helps a lot, but it should't have MAX stat at that lvl, on top of that there is cannith crafting which can help too).


    Quote Originally Posted by Lanhelin View Post
    Say, Chronoscope has named items with +3 to stats
    Thank you for bringing this up. Chrono gear has low vertical power, but it has some higher horizontal power, also it's BtA.
    This is a good example where lucky Random loot can have slightly higher vertical power at that lvl, for example:



    Keep in mind that horizontal power at low lvls is much more useful than on higher lvls. So if low lvl named items have horizontal power then it's most likely useful things, which you get without occupying an additional slot (it's not the case for high lvl items since those "other useful/meaningful things from horizontal power" you already have anyway).

    Quote Originally Posted by RobbinB View Post
    Take for example the named item "Epic Belt of Thoughtful Remembrance":
    Deathblock VII, Con 11, Conc 20, Res +11, Dodge +11, Greater Regen, 2 Augments* ML 27

    So if we go with your approach of can't have higher vertical power on random loot, than ML 27 items cannot have better than any of those individual properties. So the best possible random ML 27 loot could only have 3 of those properties at best. The only way such a piece of random loot could be useful is if it either has unique properties absolutely not available in named loot or maybe in rare cases where you have an item slot where no named item seems to fit and you happen to get the perfect combination of attributes that fit that slot perfectly (all assuming that the attributes you would want are possible on that piece of loot.)
    Thank you for this example. You have a good point.
    First, Necro 4 items are too good (a mistake Devs did, especially for non raid items, which are IMO even better than raid items). But it's too late now to fix that.
    Second, it's hard to determine which property is the best on this item. I guess we have 2 candidates here: Con 11 and Res +11 (also Dodge +11, but only if it's not capped on that toon yet). All of these are max properties for that lvl (also Conc 20, but I wouldn't put it on most important things).
    My logic is this: random loot shouldn't have higher vertical power than the main property on named items.
    But since on Necro 4 items several properties are main then this item has both: strong vertical and strong horizontal power.

    So, I have to agree with you that very rare random loot could have a bit higher vertical power than lvl 27 named items.
    Lvl 27 random rare/lucky random items could have Con 12 (or Res +12, or Dodge +11) on them, but not higher (definitely not +13). It could even have Con +12 and +2 Ins Con at once, but not Con +13 (I mean vertical power should still be the best or almost the best on named items).
    This would be a workaround for a mistake Devs did with Necro 4 items.
    The mistake was: a named item had highest vertical power for several important properties at once. It should be avoided in the future since hard to balance random loot in these cases (otherwise power creep grows too fast).

    Another way to fix this would be adding something new on random loot that's not available on any named items.
    Like wild bonus to stats (meaning it's stacking).
    Or some completely new effects, but this might require updating game mechanics (so, might be a lot of work).

    But this doesn't mean that lvl 20 random loot should have higher than Con 7.
    Named items at that lvl are balanced well enough and current random loot is also balanced well at that lvl IMO (there is nothing that's needs to be fixed here).
    Lucky loot should add some horizontal power IMO (augment slots without increasing ML could be an option too).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robai View Post


    Thank you for this example. You have a good point.
    First, Necro 4 items are too good (a mistake Devs did, especially for non raid items, which are IMO even better than raid items). But it's too late now to fix that.
    Second, it's hard to determine which property is the best on this item. I guess we have 2 candidates here: Con 11 and Res +11 (also Dodge +11, but only if it's not capped on that toon yet). All of these are max properties for that lvl (also Conc 20, but I wouldn't put it on most important things).
    My logic is this: random loot shouldn't have higher vertical power than the main property on named items.
    But since on Necro 4 items several properties are main then this item has both: strong vertical and strong horizontal power.

    So, I have to agree with you that very rare random loot could have a bit higher vertical power than lvl 27 named items.
    Lvl 27 random rare/lucky random items could have Con 12 (or Res +12, or Dodge +11) on them, but not higher (definitely not +13). It could even have Con +12 and +2 Ins Con at once, but not Con +13 (I mean vertical power should still be the best or almost the best on named items).
    This would be a workaround for a mistake Devs did with Necro 4 items.
    The mistake was: a named item had highest vertical power for several important properties at once. It should be avoided in the future since hard to balance random loot in these cases (otherwise power creep grows too fast).
    Agreed that Necro loot is way overpowered, especially considering you can just EN the chain and either get the items with a lucky drop or eventually guaranteed they will pop up in the end reward. With the xp also being very good, why wouldn't you do daily EN or EH chains while doing ETRs if there is one of the items you have an eye on. You can even occasionally get a mythic version on EN.

    Going back to the level 27 example, I've now decided that I definitely think there should be Con 13 as a "double lucky" roll. Again, the key is really just probability. Con 12 is great as the lucky roll, but I think if lucky was defined as 10% or something like that then would it be fair to say we would both say no-way to Con 12 even? I'm thinking of lucky as maybe 1% (at least below 5%) and the double lucky roll for Con 13 would be like 0.1% or 0.01%. It would just be a cool possibility that you hear about but never really see (until you do).

    I'm hugely concerned that the devs will make the "lucky" rolls far too common, and then we will get some later bizarre "fix" for that like we've seen with nightmare weapons, MF weapons, or stat damage weapons.

    Personally, I would really just love to have the hint of possibility of an ML 27 Con 13, Ins Con +"double lucky", some other "double lucky" affix item, but at a probability of like 1 in 1 million, so if/when it drops people don't actually believe it when it's screenshotted to the forums (nah, dude, you photo-shopped that!). Such items couldn't "saturate" the market or replace named loot due to their ridiculously low probability.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanhelin View Post
    I maybe could agree if DDO was designed like many other MMOs with no TR concept and item-spiral, where every new content makes items from former content useless...
    Maybe you missed it, but the next update is about to make the items from former content useless.

    For example, what's the point of named min-level 18 items with +2 Insightful stat, or even min-level 22 items with +3 Insightful stat, when +3 Insightful is going to show up on min-level 10 random loot?
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    Our final update of 2014 will extend the level cap to 30, which is intended to be DDO’s “permanent” level cap

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    Community Member Robai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobbinB View Post
    Going back to the level 27 example, I've now decided that I definitely think there should be Con 13 as a "double lucky" roll. Again, the key is really just probability. Con 12 is great as the lucky roll, but I think if lucky was defined as 10% or something like that then would it be fair to say we would both say no-way to Con 12 even? I'm thinking of lucky as maybe 1% (at least below 5%) and the double lucky roll for Con 13 would be like 0.1% or 0.01%. It would just be a cool possibility that you hear about but never really see (until you do).
    If you really want that possibility of Con 13 at lvl 27 then 0.01% is way too high chance.
    Something like 0.00001% would probably be OK (I don't really care about max Con, but I wouldn't want that Int 13 would be actually available on random loot since that would make ML28 raid item with Int 12 useless).

    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    For example, what's the point of named min-level 18 items with +2 Insightful stat, or even min-level 22 items with +3 Insightful stat, when +3 Insightful is going to show up on min-level 10 random loot?
    Well said!
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    I just wish they would spend a bit of time fixing all the named items in the game. We dont run anything for random loot, do we? It should be the *least* important thing in the game.

    So why would they do a random loot pass while ignoring the old stuff?

    People still run old content. New players still ask for opinions on what old content to buy. I would never say "buy that pack because the random loot is great"... I would say they should check out the named items because they are cool.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robai View Post
    If you really want that possibility of Con 13 at lvl 27 then 0.01% is way too high chance.
    Something like 0.00001% would probably be OK (I don't really care about max Con, but I wouldn't want that Int 13 would be actually available on random loot since that would make ML28 raid item with Int 12 useless).
    !
    0.01% is 1/10,000 chance? So let's say there are 20 different attributes total that can drop on a belt, with Int being one of them. So everytime an ML 27 belt dropped there would be a 1/10,0000 x 1/20 chance = 1/200,000 chance that it was Int 13. That probability renders Belt of Braided Beards a useless item? The probability of 0.00001% you quoted means the Int 13 would never drop (or maybe a few times should DDO continue for the next century or so).

    PS. I guess it goes with saying you would totally be against a 10% "lucky roll" chance for ML 27 stat +12, but I'm thinking the devs may set the probability significant higher. (Have they stated their intended or proposed lucky roll probabilities somewhere?)
    Thelanis:
    Annikka (Sorc), Dannikka (F), Jannikka (Rgr)
    Tamikka (Bard), Famikka (Rgr)
    Bellynda (Cl), Mellynda (M)

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robai View Post
    [*] Insightful or Exceptional or Quality bonuses should be on named items only. Maybe on high lvl random items they could exist, but only if they have higher ML than equivalent Augments. That is +2 Ins bonus should appear on ML25 or higher lvl items only. +3 Ins (or higher) bonus should not exist on random loot at all (since no such augments, but ML32 would be OK, i.e. only with wondrous craftsmanship they should drop as ML30). As for Exceptional bonuses they should be on named items only (we have also +1 Exc augments, don't need more). If you put Quality bonuses on random loot then LOL, you'll make useless NEW items in new packs already (not to mention nullifying the whole set bonuses, which was a unique thing in those packs).[/list]
    Following up on my previous probability discussion, I do agree that Insightful bonuses should honor what has been given previously, But rather than set a static number for ML 30 at +2 or +3 or +7, I would say let it be possible to get any number in the entire range. So for insightful stats it could be something like +1 90% +2 10% +3 1% +4 0.1% +5 0.01% +6 0.001% +7 0.0001%.

    For all extensive purposes the +4 bonus would be rare, the +5 bonus would be exceedingly rare, and we would almost never see the +6 or +7. That would in no way obsolete other loot.

    (I don't agree or disagree with whether or not insightful stats are even appropriate for random loot).
    Thelanis:
    Annikka (Sorc), Dannikka (F), Jannikka (Rgr)
    Tamikka (Bard), Famikka (Rgr)
    Bellynda (Cl), Mellynda (M)

  15. #15
    Community Member Lanhelin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    Maybe you missed it, but the next update is about to make the items from former content useless.

    For example, what's the point of named min-level 18 items with +2 Insightful stat, or even min-level 22 items with +3 Insightful stat, when +3 Insightful is going to show up on min-level 10 random loot?
    You're right, I missed it. My best guess what the point could be: Instead of creating additional inventory and bank space, the amount of useful or worth to stash items shall become reduced. Though in this case I'd also make the higher level but worse items not drop anymore instead of mixing up the better-loot-per-higher-level list.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robai View Post
    If all stats would drop for all (or almost all) slots in random drops then it would be boring. I mean there would be no game for loot strategy.
    (…)
    Max Stat should not be on random loot, not to mention availability on any slot.
    If only specific named items would have max stat at that lvl then why it's a problem? Yes, if you were lucky to get that item then you'd enjoy it, but many others won't have it yet.
    Stats are the most important attribute on items in DDO, because they affect nearly all rolls the game offers. Players will always want the highest available stats to optimize their characters.

    Favoring named items over random ones would make named items actually fulfill the role random items play.

    If max stats can be found on named items only, that use to be unique in design, have pre- and suffixes that never change and - worst case - only drop in raids, then to retain loot strategy there have to exist at least one named item for each slot, for each item type (armor, weapons, etc.) and for each stat to match the various builds, to keep the current variety and to not limit the players to a specific set of max stat items, not to mention to limit them to a certain build that profits the most from the specific set.

    E.g. if there was only one specific named armor (robe/cloth, light, medium and heavy) that has +max Con, all players will certainly want to get exactly this one armor piece and no other one. "If I were lucky to get that item then I'd enjoy it, but many others won't have it yet." - in my opinion is a too short-termed thinking, because this might be valid for the first few days but the times will come soon when the majority has it too (the exact same item). And players who play more than one character only, would have to run the same area, where this specific item drops, again and again and again to hope for a lucky roll to get the same item (again) on a different toon - this would really be boring, when I exactly know what to expect and where to get it. It'd be like in any other MMOs - no, thx.

    To a certain degree this necessity to repeat quests/raids on different toons already exists in DDO regarding btc items, but (as already mentioned) putting +max stats on named items only would lead to make all of them btc on acquire, probably even retroactively. To prevent high end geared alts who never played a raid and to prevent the minatory gap between raiders and non-raiders dividing the playerbase, that currently does not exist in the DDO community, or at least not as marked as in other games.

    Currently there still is the possibility to also find a random item with +max Con I did not expect to get, this maintains the excitement and the motivation to open chests and to also play quests and wilderness areas besides raids. And it offers the possibility to reach max DC's without being forced to hunt for a specific named item.

    Since DDO is different to other MMO's where the main goal actually is to reach max level as fast as possible to be able to play max level raids (because every character has one life only) and where also this player-type is favored over players who play for other reasons, a change like this would most likely have an adverse impact nobody really wants, I guess. Putting effort into getting named items should not be set off against finding a random item while playing different content than a raid.

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