An introduction: you can call me Doctor Loot

[Livmo]

I pulled these bracers in Schinn tonight as well, but when I equipped them my HP went down. I prefer my set that I got from commendation trade-ins. Doesn't make sense to re-work my gear to fit in these bracers. I also use the Arkat's Cord and bracers from GH. Drat I was gonna put them on AH, but forgot!

At level, or around level it would seem the names stuff seems better. Keep in mind tho this is based on my experience in-game and 1 out of how many that play on that particular server doesn't seem like much of a sample size : ) )

[CarpeNoctu]

I would think a good naming system would go a long way here?
Fictional example:
Light I (1d6 light damage) would become Iridicent
Light II -> Glowing
Light III -> Shining
Light IV -> Starry
Light V -> Lunar
Light VI -> Solar
Light VII -> Luminescent
Light VIII -> Brilliant
Light IX -> Incadescent
Light X -> David Hasselhoff

Just a minor correction... No need to thank me.

[Flavilandile]

Regarding random loot that is more powerful than named / raid items: what are the level ranges you guys are seeing this on? There's a bit of a difference between a level 27 random sword vs a level 21 named one... and when those items when found in the same level range content.

We are always talking at constant Quest/Item Level when we talk of how powerful items should be.

A LVL 28 Named Item should be more powerful than any similar random loot item of the same level.

So if you have a +7 Improved Holy Greatsword of Greater Good ML 28 as Random loot, your named Sword of the Holy Wrath should be better than that ( +8 Greater Holy Greatsword of Exceptional Good with one or two augment slots. ( and it should stay ML 28 ) )

This is how it should scale :

Random loot < Named Loot < Raid Named Loot.

Raid Named Loot being the most powerful items for a given situation.

As a consequence : Random loot found in a quest/raids of a given level should be less powerful than Named Loot found in quests/raids of the same level.

[lyrecono]

- Aside from the diversity issue, what are the biggest problems with random loot, today?

The constant tinkering by someone that doesn't know what (s)he's doing requiring constand fixes to repair the game.
The inabilety to listen to their paying customer base on lamania to fiz it
E.G. Nightmare effect (U14, random loot), Ghostbane (U19), equiping lv 28 items at lv 1(U19) etc

Worthless pre/sufixes (U19)
needles nerfs (vorpal/smiting/etc, i dont remember the Update)

- What weapon and equipment types do you feel are underserved in named and in random loot?

Random, not much, i see most weapon types drop in chests
Named, i seem to be missing named wraps, shields, orbs, non metal druid gear, dps type 2handed gear, repeater Xbows.
Anything to deal with the hyper deflated mob hp and saves, with all the lag, its hard enough to switch weapons all the time, i'm not switching between trip, sunder, stun and finaly dps weapons every other mob, its anoying and slows us down (it's an action MMO, remember?)
2handed weapons need a boost, the (epic) Sword of Shadow has been around for so many years but we still havent seen anyting come close to it's dps besides Skybreaker. Either lower mob hp in EE or give us better tools to deal with them.

And! no more random stat stuff on named items, if you do want +8 or +3 exep stats on dragon helms: let us choose to change/upgrade them with heroic coms (U17?)

- I’d love to hear about some of the non-named loot your character’s are currently wearing.

Main: a deadly resistance item, thats it, even for the +10 stat stuff, i prefer named loot, it has a name, a story, it required effort to get, its reliable.
Compaire it to going to a club/bar, would you pick up the first floosy you meet up with and show her to you parent/friends, only to hear that half the town had the same one? Or would you court the perfect partner, spend effort and making sure (s)he fits your life
same with named items, would you proudly link your ghostbane of fail weapon or your Esos that took time and effort (and just like in real life, your sanity) to create. one that fits your build.....

[Derana]

Regarding random loot that is more powerful than named / raid items: what are the level ranges you guys are seeing this on? There's a bit of a difference between a level 27 random sword vs a level 21 named one... and when those items when found in the same level range content.

I agree with most of those that posted to this question. I think this is mostly about clothing and accessory than weapons. What I know and experience myself is that casters face weapon problems like that the Twilight (+120 Impulse and a self chosen other ability, i took +120 Devotion on my Evoker fvs) sit there at 120 while random loot goes up to 144. Its not nice to have 138 Impulse slotted in ur Twilight to reduce the power difference... While these random loot items are 144 and ML28, people rather use the twilight because of the planar focus of erudtion buff that works only with citw weapons. But they are losing 24 spell power which is a lot and should not happen at all with those citw weapons being the best raid weapons in the game right now. The Celestia is broken (was mentioned before somewhere) but other than that i think most weapons are vendor trash right now because all the good affixes are taken out.

The real problem are, as i and others said already, accessory and clothing items. Seeker/deadly 10 is just too good and should not b in the game... really good stats should be on named/raid loot that makes ppl play the game. Another example how screwed up loot is, is this Guardian's ring, granted end reward, so lets call it random loot because of that, i think from What goes up. the ML19 heroic and the ML27 epic version BOTH give 24 prr. Before u19, the best prr items were the EE bastion shield (12 prr) and then the EE bulwark (15 prr). I paid a lot of money for these shields, they are ML25, just to have them outshined by a somewhat random loot end reward ring that is given to me on any difficulty, heroic or epic casual whatever and i could use it 6 levels earlier than my EE shields. This happened to all named items at some point. If this random loot ring gives 24 prr, my bulwark should give at least 30 but the upgrade never happened and should not happen. If any1 wanted such a ring in the game, it should have been EE named What goes Up loot and nothing else but surely not a granted end reward. Same goes for all these other granted end reward items there: +5 Evocation DC Epic necklace, +4 Evocation heroic necklace version. Both have more than the current Twilight ML23 with +3 Evo focus. There are granted end reward bracers (i think it were bracers, or gloves, from whe) that give like 20% kinetic lore, spell pen 4... Those are all really good items and they are just given out like candy, outshining everything. combined with the seeker, deadly... only the Consuming Darkness ring is better on EE with +12 seeker.. However, What goes up takes long to finish on EE, so its not worth the effort considering u can get +11 seeker from random loot.

Either way, I hope that cleared it up a bit..

[QuantumFX]

Regarding random loot that is more powerful than named / raid items: what are the level ranges you guys are seeing this on? There's a bit of a difference between a level 27 random sword vs a level 21 named one... and when those items when found in the same level range content.

Anything that is a +1 Weapon of Elemental Touch with a red slot. You can Cannith craft all of them. Bump them up to Element 1 at least.

Chaos Band: It’s basically a ML:9, Cursed +4 INT ring with a yellow slot. I can Cannith Craft that without the cursed penalty. Either bump it up to +6 INT *or* do +5 INT and drop the Will save penalty.

Locus of Vol: It’s basically a ML:13, Cursed +5 WIS necklace with a Yellow and Colorless slot. Once again, I can Cannith Craft that without the Taint of Evil. Bump it up to +6 at least.

[Drelak]

Regarding random loot that is more powerful than named / raid items: what are the level ranges you guys are seeing this on? There's a bit of a difference between a level 27 random sword vs a level 21 named one... and when those items when found in the same level range content.

I strongly feel that lvl 9 Red Fens set item stat boni are useless at lvl 9. Random loot has better.

On unrelated note, there seem to have been significant reduction in underwater action items in random loot lately.
Thus I actually took Bubble belt from Sorrowdusk isle end reward list, even though there were lots of other nice options for lvl 10 rogue.

[karl_k0ch]

Regarding random loot that is more powerful than named / raid items: what are the level ranges you guys are seeing this on? There's a bit of a difference between a level 27 random sword vs a level 21 named one... and when those items when found in the same level range content.

If I do gear planning, I usually do it for a character who's at cap. That's where the character will spend most of his or her time anyway. (This might change with ETRs being available, but until I have the commendations for this, it will be next year.) Because I plan with level 28 in mind, I'm not fazed by minimum level - I just pick what's offering the best bonuses for this slot. That doesn't necessarily mean that I am looking only for ML 26/27/28 items, as DDO has a history of raid items being viable way beyond their minimum level, for example Shroud items (ML 11) or the ToD (ML 18) sets, which both have been in use even when the cap was 25.


Take deadly, for example. Dream Visor on HN/HH/HE/EN/EH/EE has a +1/+1/+2/+3/+4/+5/+6 Competence Bonus to attack and damage at level 12/13/14/23/24/25. From random loot, I found a ML 11 Deadly +4 of Accuracy +2 item, i.e. a damage and to-hit equivalent of the ML23 Dream Visor is available at level 11, just as a ML 11 plain deadly +6 item, which matches the damage bonus of a ML25 item.

Resistance +6 is ML 11, too. Epic Envenomed Cloak is ML20.

Fall of truth items have +8 stats and are ML25. You can find random loot with a +9 stat and a useful attribute at level 24 (thanks to MC or Curses).

[sephiroth1084]

Regarding random loot that is more powerful than named / raid items: what are the level ranges you guys are seeing this on? There's a bit of a difference between a level 27 random sword vs a level 21 named one... and when those items when found in the same level range content.

The items from the Fall of Truth raid with stat bonuses all go up only to +8, while random lootgen can commonly be found with +9 to a stat, a decent second effect and one or two augment slots, +10 to a stat can be found uncommonly, and even with a decent second effect (+10 stat of +8/9/10 Resistance are up on the AH for not unreasonable sums), rarely these can be found with an augment slot, and +11 stat items can be found as well. When the end game (Epic Elite) has such outrageous saves on the monsters that anyone specializing in an ability (such as spells) that allow a DC, the highest stat bonus you can get is one of the more important considerations on loot. And this is just looking at one facet.

As others have mentioned Deadly of Accuracy items surpass the EE Dream Visor in heroic levels, and at the same level you can get the EE Dream Visor (with considerably effort), you can find Deadly VIII of Accuracy VIII with one or two augment slots littering the AH. I've stopped putting most on the AH at all, because they are so common that they don't sell unless they are exceptional (highest deadly + suffix available at that level with an augment slot or two).

Level 1 (or 2?) gear with Lore (spell critical) chance at 14% (there was a screenshot floating around the forums this weekend) beating out the lore effects on basically every single named item in the game, but especially totally trivializing Arcane Lore (such as on the Epic Blue dragon armors).

Weapons aren't the problem here so much, because all of the best named weapons have improved base damage and critical profiles, as well as multiple effects lumped on them, while lootgen weapons don't get those luxuries, so they can't compare, whereas when you're looking at accessories, missing an extra effect or two for strictly better bonuses is often a no-brainer in favor of the latter. Armor is in a similar category as weapons, because even with the combat system changes, AC just isn't important enough to warrant equipping some junky lootgen with +8 more AC than a named armor with 5 worthwhile effects on it.

All of this serves to illustrate why simply rolling back/reintegrating the weapons tables isn't a sufficient fix, since the bigger problems exist on accessories (helm, necklace, goggles, cloaks, belts, gloves, boots, bracers). Random armor is basically useless, so that's worth dealing with, and random weapons are mostly useless, with a few semi-good combos, but are outclassed by even fairly old named items.

Besides, if you deal with the other stuff first, we can continue to have hilarious Ghostbane threads.

[Derana]

This. My Gloves of the Master Illusionist are ML26, and while I love the +10 Int they give, they are BTC, which I hate, and more importantly they are decidedly weaker than the random ML28 +10 Int +10 Resistance goggles I also have. Was it really the intent to use these gloves for only TWO levels??
Yes the gloves also have an augment slot and some sort of other boost, but even then they simply don't compare.

i'm not sure if dev's understand enough that people tend to stick to their named loot. If i finally got that rare named (raid) loot, i dont wanna throw it away 2 levels (or rather one or two updates) after for some random loot item just because it offers better stats. I kept my Epic Abishai set till U19 because only then I was finally (but sadly) convinced that its better to have 10 dex/10 dodge bracers than the +3 cons bonus from the full abi set. So i changed my gear completely and switched to the Epic White Dragon Bonus + the upgraded Gauntlets of Immortality, ML24 Cloak of Night and dropped all of the Abishai set completely. The random loot, the +10 dex bracers started it, not the named loot. And while people called me silly for keeping the set, i just rly liked it, it took me effort to get it and it didnt bother me pre u19 to have 1 stat missing when max to stat was +8 but now with +10/11?

[Dandonk]

Regarding random loot that is more powerful than named / raid items: what are the level ranges you guys are seeing this on? There's a bit of a difference between a level 27 random sword vs a level 21 named one... and when those items when found in the same level range content.

I have deadly of accuracy goggles that are ML 17, and unbound - that have better combat bonuses than EE Dream Visors. And please don't tell me about the spot bonus. As for the ghost touch property - everyone and their mother has this elsewhere, and is rarely needed in any case. As for slots, you can find better slots in randgen than the single one on the Visors.

There are now randgen +6 resistance items (have a ML 9 one), a bonus formerly only found on high level loot.

[voodoogroves]

I have deadly of accuracy goggles that are ML 17, and unbound - that have better combat bonuses than EE Dream Visors. And please don't tell me about the spot bonus. As for the ghost touch property - everyone and their mother has this elsewhere, and is rarely needed in any case. As for slots, you can find better slots in randgen than the single one on the Visors.

There are now randgen +6 resistance items (have a ML 9 one), a bonus formerly only found on high level loot.

That's like a ML20 or 24 augment too.

[voodoogroves]

I pulled these bracers in Schinn tonight as well, but when I equipped them my HP went down. I prefer my set that I got from commendation trade-ins. Doesn't make sense to re-work my gear to fit in these bracers. I also use the Arkat's Cord and bracers from GH. Drat I was gonna put them on AH, but forgot!

At level, or around level it would seem the names stuff seems better. Keep in mind tho this is based on my experience in-game and 1 out of how many that play on that particular server doesn't seem like much of a sample size : ) )

You pulled out one of the (the?) most useful Eveningstar sets, and a fairly junk set of bracers ;-)

Ideally those named items would be something you put on at their ML and wear for a few levels - so yes, they should be useful compared to higher ML items if you're trying to do the same thing. If named items (those ML20) are only good in your mind until you get to ML21, I think that's another variance.

[nibel]

Regarding random loot that is more powerful than named / raid items: what are the level ranges you guys are seeing this on? There's a bit of a difference between a level 27 random sword vs a level 21 named one... and when those items when found in the same level range content.

It mostly have relation to we being able to access Protection, Resistance, and other stats that were only acessible on epic levels by heroic. Resistance +6 was a rare thing and well-sought. Now you can find ML 11 cloaks with it. This kinda shadows old items with proper numbers, like the Stormsinger Cloak.

Sure, this specific cloak still is worth wearing if you are a bard because of being one of the few items with Anthem on it. But you are not equiping it for the resistance bonus. You probably will have resistance in another slot.

The same can be said for most epic items with resistance +6 or +7. By epic levels you can easily find +8 or +9 to equip before 28, and make the full jump to +10 or +11 at level 28.

You can make the same paralel with items with seeker, sneak attack damage/deception, fortification, etc.

Dream's Visor is a unique example in the same vein of the Nightmare enchantment becoming acessible by random loot. It used to be a unique enchantment, and turning it into a general enchantment made the named item lose value by proxy. Think like if you made Madstone Rage or Transform Kinect Energy into the random loot tables, the raid items with those properties will instantly lose all their value.

[Ungood]

I was questing tonight and for melee I went out with the Nightmare. It's still my favorite although it barely neg. levels now. I pulled the other 2 items tonight from Schinn. Unlike like my earlier xbow post, which was all random loot, this post shows a named epic and 2 random loots of roughly similar levels.

You only pulled those two weapons, and quite crappy weapons at that, and you want to compare them to raid gear? Gosh, while it;s bad enough that loot gen can surpass raid gear, you want every freaking piece of it to be better?

[/QUOTE]

I pulled these bracers in Schinn tonight as well, but when I equipped them my HP went down.

Not surprised those bracers suck, no slot, nothing, come back and talk when you pull something not so half-backed. Like i said before, it's bad enough that loot-gen can beat raid/named gear in close level ranges, you are prancing off that every bit of loot-gen needs to do it..

[Silken-Akira]

Dear DOCTOR LOOT,

Just wondering if you will be in the DOCTOR WHO Special as his new nemesis?

Otherwise +1 for the initiative.

[Bolo_Grubb]

Regarding random loot that is more powerful than named / raid items: what are the level ranges you guys are seeing this on? There's a bit of a difference between a level 27 random sword vs a level 21 named one... and when those items when found in the same level range content.

Ok so this is not random loot but a case of lower level loot being better then older, but higher level loot.

http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Drow_Ma..._Weapon_Master

Vs

http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Giant%2...%28Level_17%29

Yes I know the drow weapon has a higher damage rating but the level 17 Giant's fist has +10 to stun, +10 to sunder and a red augment slot. Making a better choice for a blunt spec THF fighter 5 levels lower then drow weapon.

The dream visor used to be a nice piece of loot to try and work into your gear set up. Random items with Deadly have made the dream visor useless.

[Archetype]

We should never feel like this with our NAMED lootz:

Bilbo: "Sweet! My first named weapon."


YEARS LATER:

Bilbo: "This is STING! Take it, if you like. It glows blue when orcs are about."



Frodo: "Um, yeah, about that. See I pulled this sweet randomgenloot sword from some wight chest recently. And since it's +10 Epic BodyfeederIX CosmicIX FinesseIX Holy BurstIX KeenIX MetallineIX ParalyzingIX ScintillatingIX SolarIX Vorpal IX.....of GhostbaneXX, well, Sting would be a bit of a downgrade dude. Thanks but ...pass."

[Miow]

It mostly have relation to we being able to access Protection, Resistance, and other stats that were only acessible on epic levels by heroic. Resistance +6 was a rare thing and well-sought. Now you can find ML 11 cloaks with it. This kinda shadows old items with proper numbers, like the Stormsinger Cloak.

Sure, this specific cloak still is worth wearing if you are a bard because of being one of the few items with Anthem on it. But you are not equiping it for the resistance bonus. You probably will have resistance in another slot.

The same can be said for most epic items with resistance +6 or +7. By epic levels you can easily find +8 or +9 to equip before 28, and make the full jump to +10 or +11 at level 28.

You can make the same paralel with items with seeker, sneak attack damage/deception, fortification, etc.

Dream's Visor is a unique example in the same vein of the Nightmare enchantment becoming acessible by random loot. It used to be a unique enchantment, and turning it into a general enchantment made the named item lose value by proxy. Think like if you made Madstone Rage or Transform Kinect Energy into the random loot tables, the raid items with those properties will instantly lose all their value.

I'll have to check my character...but by geez i think i pulled a lower than min lvl 11 +6 resistance ring...i will check and get back. Just seems so powerful....

[Drus-the-Axe]

Jeez, reading this thread it's like...like...hell I'm stunned speechless I can't even think of an analogy.

I see 15 pages of discussion, with (maybe!) a half dozen posts total for heroic, non-EE, non-endgame players. Dr Loot, please remember the heroic levels aren't just for casual players.


I've been playing DDO since the month before F2P. I've been VIP for years. I like DDO. I've played on almost every server. I have some 30+ toons over the years. I have some "bad" builds bcause I like flavor or just a little variety and change of pace. I've run every single class, though not all to 20 (bards and barbs were especially irksome pre-Enhancement pass). And I've TR'd maybe 5 times.

I own MotU and Shadowfel expansions. I've run some Wheloon and more Eveningstar, but it's fair to say the vast bulk of my time is heroic. It's a toss up - I spend about half my time in the 1-10 range and the other half mostly at level 10-20 (despite not taking many toons to 20, given the greater XP needed and often lack of quests and parties (**** you Otto)). I prefer PUGs, and finding groups can be all too often harder than finding Arthur's Grail. I've bought TP with real cash as well as a long-standing VIP with earned points (and almost always spent on Tomes, classes and races, and the rare bell or cake; I think I've bought pots twice). I usually run quests on elite, because I'm good enough with a party, but also run hard and normal as appropriate. BB is a nice perk for 2nd+ lives but not a necessity for most of my play (esp at levels 1-10, given how easy it is to level w/o hitting anywhere near every quest).

So I'm not a casual player. Far from it. But I'm also by and large not an epic player. I like perks, but I'm not anal retentive about min-max'ing. This may make me that rare unicorn on the forums, but I suspect I'm far from rare.

It's all well and good to improve the epic experience. But 'the loot problem' runs across all levels, not just epic levels.


A few specific comments to the original query:

• I absolutely agree, at same level it should be random loot < named loot < raid named loot. That gives players goals to strive for. The current implementation strongly favors random loot, with lots of negative long-term consequences.
• To the earlier comment re Red Fens named loot, it's been a long-time DDO 'feature' that running a quest at level N will net named loot mostly designed for levels <N. That's always been irksome, running a quest and pulling a neat item - that's pointless to equip because you've already leveled past it's usefulness for better options. If you want 1st life toons finding gear for 2nd+ lives it makes some sense, but that's probably not the intent and doesn't seem beneficial overall. I'd be happy to see Turbine improve this, but at least the "pulling named loot at level is usually underwhelming" is nothing new.
• Crafting improvements would be nice, but not necessarily the ability to craft anything. Lacerating is sweet, but crafting it would be very hard to balance worth a ****. And game balance is critical to fun and long-term longevity.
• Trinkets have always been rare. I can live with that
• Collars seem non-existent of late
• Why does my pure-Wiz or pure-Sorc always seem to pull more armor than my warriors? Sure random loot is nice, for variety and occasionally to bank for another toon, but this seemed to get more unbalanced over time. Lately it feels like the loot tables were tweaked (or I've just been luckier) as it's not as whacked as it used to be. The point, I don't need or want every random loot item to be useful to my toon, but variety is the spice of life.
• Lacerating. Solar. Crusader. Burst. All those fun names went away in u20. I much prefer them. Keep the same weapon stats, just give them cool names again.
• +skill items seems rarer than raid loot. since u20. My rogues and artis are especially pained, as finding +openlock, disable, search and spot gear is rarer than a blue moon of late.
• Variety. Everything I pull lately seems to be deadly, accuracy, ghostbane, riposte or a rare other item. Loot is DEADLY DULL now.