Sneak speed bug with DWS Faster Sneaking and Assassin Stealthy

[Saekee]

So I did another test of the monk/assassin/DWS split on my iconic throwaway (7 rogue/6 monk/2 ranger)

She went in stealth from KIng's Forest to Storm Horns entrance with the following numbers:

53.79 seconds running

While sneaking, these are the following speeds:

• All three faster sneaking enhancements: 51
• Assassin + Monk faster sneaking: 61.72
• DWS + Monk faster sneaking: 61.13
• Only Monk faster sneaking: 76.65
• Only Assassin faster sneaking: 76.45

Analysis:
1) all faster sneaking enhancements stack
2) assassin faster sneaking is NOT giving 75% but only 50%.

[Saekee]

Did some quick testing as I just hit 20:
Monk 12/Ranger 6/Rogue 2.

Running from the airship entrance to the sorrowdusk spokesperson.

No sneak (but notably 20% speed from monk, which most toons wont have access to): 29.9 seconds.
Sneaking: 33.3 seconds (which is the same as with 5% and 10% from monk, suggesting I've reached a cap of some kind).
Shadowdancer full sneaking speed clicky: 17.7 seconds.
Shadowdancer full sneaking speed clicky + tempest sprint boost: 17.8 seconds (which definitely is within margin of error as its hard to measure these things exact).

This suggests to me that shadowdancer clicky definitely works with all the faster sneaking, however it still takes into account the sneak speed cap I've hit.

Since the assassin faster sneaking enhancement is only giving a 50% boost, it is not so essential to push for a heavy rogue split. I think your split is the best--your run speed is at 20% with monk 12 whereas a 12 rogue/6 monk only gets 2% more.

I envision your split (12 monk/6 ranger/2 rogue) still as a thrower (I know you went melee), since taking the faster sneaking in DWS is not a waste--you want sniper shot anyway. Tier 5 in DWS, ninja to shadow veil, add assassin to envenomed blades, Henshin to quickdraw, and there may even be some AP still remaining since I could skip shintao. If feats are there, you could even add the complete TWF line on top of the ranged one, which would suggest adding some AP in tempest as well. I would go human or drow, probably drow out of preference since one would want a max dex and strong INT for trapping and maybe even KtA. Honestly, though, I think I would just go all-in as a thrower; sneak into position for devastating uses of Pin. Fury of the Wild. This would not be a max DPS thrower but with high wisdom, 10K and other bonuses, it could hold up well while allowing for insane sneak speeds as per your video.

So I did another test of the monk/assassin/DWS split on my iconic throwaway (7 rogue/6 monk/2 ranger)

She went in stealth from KIng's Forest to Storm Horns entrance with the following numbers:

53.79 seconds running

While sneaking, these are the following speeds:

• All three faster sneaking enhancements: 51
• Assassin + Monk faster sneaking: 61.72
• DWS + Monk faster sneaking: 61.13
• Only Monk faster sneaking: 76.65
• Only Assassin faster sneaking: 76.45

Analysis:
1) all faster sneaking enhancements stack
2) assassin faster sneaking is NOT giving 75% but only 50%.

[Fecerak]

If you still have the toon I'd be interested in seeing the results from the running tests with and without a striding item (to find out more about the exact formulas for speed, my guess is that sneaking is 0.5 * (sneaking speed bonuses + other speed bonuses), but I don't know for certain).

Also has to be mentioned that the faster sneaking bonuses seem to be somewhat bugged when holding a thrower (not working a lot of the time), which I'd guess would be pretty annoying for a thrower build as you would probably have to swap weapon when sneaking around.

[Saekee]

If you still have the toon I'd be interested in seeing the results from the running tests with and without a striding item (to find out more about the exact formulas for speed, my guess is that sneaking is 0.5 * (sneaking speed bonuses + other speed bonuses), but I don't know for certain).

Also has to be mentioned that the faster sneaking bonuses seem to be somewhat bugged when holding a thrower (not working a lot of the time), which I'd guess would be pretty annoying for a thrower build as you would probably have to swap weapon when sneaking around.

ok! I can test them. I will send the toon some throwing stars too.

[Saekee]

If you still have the toon I'd be interested in seeing the results from the running tests with and without a striding item (to find out more about the exact formulas for speed, my guess is that sneaking is 0.5 * (sneaking speed bonuses + other speed bonuses), but I don't know for certain).

Also has to be mentioned that the faster sneaking bonuses seem to be somewhat bugged when holding a thrower (not working a lot of the time), which I'd guess would be pretty annoying for a thrower build as you would probably have to swap weapon when sneaking around.

Equipping a shuriken does indeed kill the faster sneaking (the legs still scuttle fast but the toon moves slowly). However, if I unequip and re-equip my speed item (boots), she reverts back to faster sneaking.

I will test some more when I have a chance. I would like to check exactly what happens with speed items, jumping, and throwers as well as your request to do some timed runs sans a speed item.

[Saekee]

Equipping a shuriken does indeed kill the faster sneaking (the legs still scuttle fast but the toon moves slowly). However, if I unequip and re-equip my speed item (boots), she reverts back to faster sneaking.

I will test some more when I have a chance. I would like to check exactly what happens with speed items, jumping, and throwers as well as your request to do some timed runs sans a speed item.

equipping a throwing star does, in fact, mess up the sneak speed, but only briefly. It jitters a bit but then picks up rapid pace.

Jumping with a throwing star blocks it. To fix, one must swap speed items (swap the same one on and off or to a different one). I also found that the SDK jaunt fixes it!

more speed tests
55.5 stealth without any item, all 3 enhancement lines
running without, 64.87/64.15
So without any speed item, I can stealth faster than I can run!!!! And Significantly!


50 with 30% speed item (8) stealthed, all 3 enhancement lines, which shaves off about one second from the 25% speed above posted.

[Fecerak]

Those numbers seem semiconsistent with my theories.

Basically I think the sneak ability puts a 50% penalty to your movement speed. That means that the speed item is half as effective when sneaking, meaning that the higher your bonus speed, the better running becomes compared to sneaking. So basically by using all 3 enhancement lines you get a fairly hefty additive bonus to your speed, which makes sneaking faster, but given enough bonus speed from other sources the multiplicative penalty in the end makes you slower again.

[Saekee]

Those numbers seem semiconsistent with my theories.

Basically I think the sneak ability puts a 50% penalty to your movement speed. That means that the speed item is half as effective when sneaking, meaning that the higher your bonus speed, the better running becomes compared to sneaking. So basically by using all 3 enhancement lines you get a fairly hefty additive bonus to your speed, which makes sneaking faster, but given enough bonus speed from other sources the multiplicative penalty in the end makes you slower again.

that sounds right. I PM'd Cordovan to find out if this is WAI (or, if not, if they will just leave it alone since stealth is such a niche thing anyway).

[Saekee]

Still waiting to hear from Developers about this--whether or not it will get nerfed, WAI, etc.

[Jetrule]

In response to the speed buff sometimes bugging out while sneaking I can confirm that it has to do with monk slowfall. If you have ninja sneak speed as part of the combo make sure to toggle off slowfall.

[Saekee]

In response to the speed buff sometimes bugging out while sneaking I can confirm that it has to do with monk slowfall. If you have ninja sneak speed as part of the combo make sure to toggle off slowfall.

thanks. in my testing, I did not have slowfall toggled.

So going airborn is bad lol! This is why the boots of grounding (you cannot jump in them) make you sneak uber fast.

[Saekee]

still no word from the devs

[Saekee]

We got word! Here is Sev's response to a number of weird issues. Stacking sneak speed is WAI! Whoot!
The crazy fast SD sneak speed boost is NOT WAI. No surprise.

[Saekee]

Looks like the 12 monk/6 ranger or rogue/2 ranger or rogue fastest sneaking build is now viable as a melee with the Vistani enhancements!

[Saekee]

We got word! Here is Sev's response to a number of weird issues. Stacking sneak speed is WAI! Whoot!
The crazy fast SD sneak speed boost is NOT WAI. No surprise.

I know this is a necro but just letting folks know who find this thread that devs are killing the sneak speed faster sneaking stacking and the absurd speed boost from SD. I do not mind the latter but the former is a huge disappointment, especially note link in which we got confirmation that it was WAI (I had even PM’d Cordovan to be clear).

[Kutalp]

I have been thinking on adding Barbarian or not just for the speed boost lately. But thats all. Not enough AP. I borrow skills/sneak/aoe trip/some alch trap/Human tree the same time.


A new and upgraded rogue class would be worth the dime at shop. (Not iconic, not universal, not caster or ranged but generalist rogue)


I wish we could have a new combo class borrowing all good sides of Acrobat aoe, dodge/dex, some extra prr/mrr, hp, saves bonus after rogue 10 (?) ...and ofcourse the entire rogue goodies and improved rogue special skills. Passive/Not action boost +%50 bonus effect when skills roll a dice. Special rogue feats should be free similar with Fighter feats every insert level.


Die harder and passive Fake dead (!) which would send anything including reapers away. no fail at saves after lvl 12-15 with %25/35/55 chance. Epic destinies supporting these specialities for rogues.


Scaling ghostly effect.

Conj cloud like bombs without crafting (different from alchemist for sure)...stat damage-blind-helpless through rogue skill and level instead of calculated over ability scores, summon tiny companion which applies intimidate/bluff etc on itself then escapes dodging ( for distraction, rogue skills boost and levers not damage ). At least something aoe and cope with Universal tree effect that scales with character level.

Sneak mode should really function as 0 aggression when stealthed behind a corner or running away and sneaking when enemies are chasing us. Also would add extra ghostly, saves and dodge effect under stealth mode. (unless the rogue attacks. Right after an action such as Imp feint followed by sweeping attack as sneak attack rogue should be undetectable if he manages to escape somewhere that hostile npcs cant see him)

Rogues should not be limited to any certain weapon of choice but should follow a more generalist approach.


( Epic fail about live game: Anything over hard even at lower levels is Ranged + Avoidance right now . No matter what class or what build. Nothing can compete that )


Still fanning, long live the rogues.

[Tlorrd]

I know this is a necro but just letting folks know who find this thread that devs are killing the sneak speed faster sneaking stacking and the absurd speed boost from SD. I do not mind the latter but the former is a huge disappointment, especially note link in which we got confirmation that it was WAI (I had even PM’d Cordovan to be clear).

Yeah this is truly sad ... they should at least increase the % for those enhancement trees that go it ... say ...

Assassin: +75/100/125% (actually I'd really want +100/125/150%)
DWS: +25/50/75%
NS: +50/75/100%

[HuneyMunster]

Yeah this is truly sad ... they should at least increase the % for those enhancement trees that go it ... say ...

Assassin: +75/100/125% (actually I'd really want +100/125/150%)
DWS: +25/50/75%
NS: +50/75/100%

Will the Devs ever fix the Assassin Stealthy bug? Though it should have been done when they made the enhancements mutually exclusive.


The ranks are only giving the following bonuses

Rank 1: 18.5%
Ranks 2: 33%
Ranks 3: 50%


With level 15 rogue and acrobat Fast Movement taken movement speed is 152%

In Sneak Stance:
With no ranks of Stealth movement speed is 76%
One rank in Stealthy 89%
Two ranks in Stealthy 101%
Three ranks in Stealthy 114%

This should be at movement speed of

Rank 1: 95%
Rank 2: 114%
Rank 3 133%

If the ranks were fixed.

[MalarKan]

It's the Xbows and possibly bows in general. That's what's breaking the animation after a jump and reducing movement speed

This exactly. It happens with my human pure rogue while weilding xbows. The bug is removed when i switch weapons, say, to a scroll, which is why i developed the costume to hit sneak and inmediatly switch to any scroll, to avoid being bugged by the bug



Edit: Oh ****! only after posting i realized this was a necro. so sorry

[Mindos]

This exactly. It happens with my human pure rogue while weilding xbows. The bug is removed when i switch weapons, say, to a scroll, which is why i developed the costume to hit sneak and inmediatly switch to any scroll, to avoid being bugged by the bug



Edit: Oh ****! only after posting i realized this was a necro. so sorry

Nothing to be sorry about, mate! It's been almost 5 years since the players have reported this issue. And the players discovered how to reproduce this bug by using a crossbow, etc. I think SSG has a lot of info to start solving this problem. They very recently just did work on stealth speed but didn't fix this.

Player reported bugs should have nearly the highest priority. Think about it! Unlike some other bugs, when a customer complains it means it meant a lot to them, because it's affecting them and enough to report it. When you let customer reported issues linger (for half a decade) you're telling the customer that the issue they care about, that they cared enough about to make a forum post about, that they helped spend time researching and testing to find a common cause of the issue, that... Well, you aren't really telling them anything, but I'm sure they feel "told" by being ignored.