Summon CR = Caster Level

[bennyson]

I decided to post this idea I had because all summons in all summoning spells are FYI, useless!

Summon Monster IX for example only allows you to summon a CR 16 creature that is only good for non-elite heroic quests and dies in one to two hits in hard or elite epic difficulty, even with Augment Summoning, 3 Druid past lives, and Grand Summoner.

I do not have experiences with software programing, but I think this may or may not require much coding.

For instance, a mage should be able to conjure a creature that equals their power, instead of always being a fixed value.

In DDO, the formulas would be something like this:

Summoned Creature = level of spell + base CR of summoned creature + caster level + destines + items + enhancements

or

Summoned Creature = base CR of creature summoned + caster level + destines + items + enhancements

or

Summoned Creature = caster level + destines + items + enhancements

or

Summoned Creature = level of spell + caster level + destines + items + enhancements

this is all mere guessing, and its only an idea, Turbine can do whatever they want with this. I do hope though that they will consider this in a similar thing in a future update to the game.

For multiclass characters, however, would not benefit from this as caster level equals the level of the magic using classes that have summoning spells in their spell book (A.G. clerics, bards, sorcerers, rangers, wizards, druids, and favored souls.)

[nibel]

/signed

[LiquidZombie]

/signed

They did this for the PM skeletons and it is a huge improvement over the old fixed CR mechanic. Perhaps Augment Summoning should enable this behaviour in addition to its current effect.

It should apply to Create Undead too. A level 20 necromancer should be able to summon something more challenging than a CR12 mummy lord.

[FAQ]

/signed!! Summon monster spells really needs some love

[bennyson]

It should apply to Create Undead too.

Create Undead IS a summoning spell so it would benefit from something like this, thus giving Pale Masters more useful undead minions at their disposal.

[FynWarFyn]

I agree, summoning spells are too weak near endgame levels. I think that they won't do anything to it as they believe it is a reason for casters to group up instead of soloing everything, again.

[bennyson]

The only good summon pets in this game are class specific ones only, they have their uses and uselessness.

The Druid wolf pet is one of the good summons in this game that aren't at a fixed CR value, although they equal total character level, not caster levels.

The Artificer iron defender is a good summon as well, but like the wolf, it is tied to character level, not caster level.

The Wizard skeleton knight is an ok summon, unlike the other two class pets, it cannot be given gear nor be trained (makes since because its an "ancient" knight) It is also tied to character level, but only a pure wizy can have this thing at level 28 (or 30)

These are the ONLY summons that scale with the caster's power, while Summon Monster or Summon Nature's Ally (1th to 9th level spells) are fixed CR values, which makes all the summons there underpowered and useless. Thus making it 100% impossible to play a Summoner arch-type magic user in this game.

Old summon spells and new CR fixed epic destiny summons need love.

[Enoach]

Personally I don't think the Base CR value is as much the issue of a Summon as the following factors

1. It should allow 1 from its level and 1d3 creatures of the same kind from the n-1 level list, or 1d4+1 creatures of the same kind from a lower-level list

Multiples can be more effective

2. The Summon Creature needs a basic UI strip much like pets; Attack, stand ground, defend, do nothing...

My experiences with Summons even in PnP was more a supplement to power/numbers. Mind you in PnP we seldom have 20 monsters with 5K HP to deal with in a single encounter

While the above won't make a single summon stronger in itself, it could strengthen the spell, even allowing Druids a better use of "Pack" based spells.

[bennyson]

Mind you in PnP we seldom have 20 monsters with 5K HP to deal with in a single encounter

20 monsters with 5k HP? BAHAHAHAHAAH!

Come to think of it, that is another for the devs to do, increase the number of summons a single caster can summon (when they give summons an empowerment.)

[bennyson]

Since my thread is aimed towards improving the usefulness of summons, I thought I post something about Create Undead's available "creatable" undead creatures.

Create Undead is a 6th level spell of the school of Necromancy that requires its own special spell component, similar to Stoneskin.

It allows you to create a Dread Wraith, Mummy Lord, and a Wight Priest, all at a CR value of 12.

Am wondering WHY were only able to make THREE undead minions? Three? Seriously? Three?!

This spell needs improvement!

Create Undead should offer MORE choices of undead to create instead of three, like a zombie or a skeleton mage for example.

Also, since this spell requires its own special spell component, Pale Masters should be able to run around with three undead minions instead of two.

Reason be is because Stoneskin is an exceptional spell because of how it works and the spell components it requires to cast it.

Create Undead is not that far from Stoneskin because it works differently from other summoning spells and it requires its own special component and yet its not an exceptional summoning spell. Your still stuck with just two undead minions.

So thus, Create Undead should have additional options of creatable undead except named undead creatures and Skeleton Giants* and should be made an exceptional summoning spell to allow two minions for normal mages or three for Pale Masters.

(*)Skeleton Giants would be too powerful and they wouldn't fit in small spaced dungeons either.

Also, like my earlier posts, these summons should scale with the caster instead of being a fixed CR value.

[Seikojin]

It would be nice if there were enhancements that affected spell pets.

[Certon]

/signed

though i think all summons should summon a CR-appropriate creature, even summon monster i.


just make the cost scale up with the power until it reaches 50sp at maximum. or have heighten work on it to the same effect.