Is it a bannable offense...

[LeLoric]

I am unfamiliar with that. Please elucidate.

People were temp banned/disciplined for using a store item during risia games to provide other players an easy way to get purple coins and charging them a nominal in game fee to do so.

[LeLoric]

The biggest point of confusion on this issue is why they essentailly allow point code transfers yet still have the following information posted on their faq about the ddo store found here http://www.ddo.com/ddogameinfo/faq

Point 8 is the contentious point.

8. Will I be able to sell my in-game items to other players In exchange for Turbine Points?

Turbine Points are non-transferable and, like most of the items available for purchase in the DDO store, completely bound to you and your character(s)/account.

Whether or not the transaction is made with points or with a code that has no other use than to be redeemable for points is moot as they are in essence the same thing. They have made turbine points transferable and useable to trade for in game items as a type of one time use, point 8 of the faq clearly says is not available as an option thus leading to a conflict.

Turbines lack of response on this is clearly to avoid setting them up for guaranteed loss in court should any sort of litigation ensue. By basically ignoring/dancing around the issue they create at least some grey area that they would be able to fight to some degree.

[HungarianRhapsody]

No. You really need to read the Dev Tracker when things like this are input into game, along with the dozens of threads about such things, at the time they are done and not months down the line.

Well, since Tolero and Cordovan gave exactly conflicting answers when the TP web codes were introduced and neither has clarified the official position since then, it's not XYnot's fault for not knowing the answer to this.

Especially since there is a deafening silence from Turbine every time anyone asks about this.


The fact that they make money off this and they don't ban or infract people when they make the trade posts makes it pretty clear that this is tolerated, but they still have no official policy.

[Arkat]

People were temp banned/disciplined for using a store item during risia games to provide other players an easy way to get purple coins and charging them a nominal in game fee to do so.

Ah, ok. It was basically an unintended "exploit" bought from the store.

Yeah, I can see why they put the kibosh on that.

[Arkat]

The fact that they make money off this and they don't ban or infract people when they make the trade posts makes it pretty clear that this is tolerated, but they still have no official policy.

And there never will be.

If Turbine makes it official that it's ok to trade TP for in-game items, as someone said above, they may be liable for some taxation issues.

If Turbine makes it official that it's NOT ok, they will have just cut their revenue stream by quite a bit I imagine. Not just from people who pay subscription fees that they had to ban but also from lots of people who've bought TP codes and traded them for items/plat.

If they publish an official policy, they lose no matter what the policy is.

Since it is clearly tolerated, you're not going to get banned.

[smatt]

And there never will be.

If Turbine makes it official that it's ok to trade TP for in-game items, as someone said above, they may be liable for some taxation issues.

If Turbine makes it official that it's NOT ok, they will have just cut their revenue stream by quite a bit I imagine. Not just from people who pay subscription fees that they had to ban but also from lots of people who've bought TP codes and traded them for items/plat.

If they publish an official policy, they lose no matter what the policy is.

Since it is clearly tolerated, you're not going to get banned.

And I can guaranteee you that is the advice the tax attorneys have given them.... Stay out of it, don't comment.... Leave it at that.... And that's why they're staying out of it.....

[Xynot2]

Well... After reading the last of the previous page and all of this one, I have come to this conclusion:

It was bannable(might still be). It was eluded to by Tolero that (and Im filling in some blanks and apologies to Tolero if you feel like Im putting words in your mouth- that is not my intention) it's not an openly accepted practice but, due to things being purchasable in the store that can be placed on the AH, some wide leeway is being given (excluding exploitation and money grabs that leave turbine out of the money loop). Which still leaves everyone in the position of... at your own risk and should you cross the line, Turbine will defer to the CSR post from 10/2010 and that in order to protect their tax liability and financial streams, it is the only official word we are going to get.

Am I far from what should be concluded?

[Arkat]

Am I far from what should be concluded?

Yes

and should you cross the line, Turbine will defer to the CSR post from 10/2010

There is absolutely NO evidence that this is the case. There is NO evidence that lone CSR's post was EVER the basis for taking any banning actions - EVER.

What I wrote a few posts above is where things ACTUALLY stand.

[Dark_Helmet]

And on the other hand, why post and act like you can speak for the official word if you dont have proof of the official word? Seriously... are you just posting to see yourself in print?

They why aren't you sending a PM to the community support team instead of asking on here?

Yes, I have sent a PM and gotten "official" answers - even a "we haven't decided yet".

This response is pretty much why people think you are trolling and you are getting smart-ass answers. We have come to expect it.

[sdrocky]

The whole things a moot point really. i can get given an item in game. Email the tp code out of game. Turbine none the wiser.

As far as they are concerned all that has happened is I've been given some plat/item that i didn't have before.

The rest is outside of their ability to monitor/track.

Main thing is, as far as i'm concerned, I dont have some wan&er plat farmer gold spamming me. That they do well.

[stoerm]

In today's world, money is ALWAYS the final word. That's a cold hard fact whether you like it or not. Understand this concept and you will really understand how things work.

Asking "cui bono" is a good analytical tool, but profit is just one of many guiding principle for our actions.

The whole things a moot point really. i can get given an item in game. Email the tp code out of game. Turbine none the wiser.

As far as they are concerned all that has happened is I've been given some plat/item that i didn't have before.

The rest is outside of their ability to monitor/track.

None of which is accidental. Turbine most likely planned to create a TP-plat market when they started selling transferrable TP codes and unbound DDO store items.

[Sonos]

The whole things a moot point really. i can get given an item in game. Email the tp code out of game. Turbine none the wiser.

As far as they are concerned all that has happened is I've been given some plat/item that i didn't have before.

The rest is outside of their ability to monitor/track.

Main thing is, as far as i'm concerned, I dont have some wan&er plat farmer gold spamming me. That they do well.

This might make sense if they didn't ever monitor large transactions which I'm pretty sure they do. An ex-guildie was banned for a couple weeks for accepting Millions of plat from another toon. This was before the advent of the TP code trade extravaganza. He had to justify himself for receiving such a large amount. He essentially had to convince them he was not buying plat from a farmer, which he was not.

On the other hand I do feel like they avert their eyes to this thing these days because they have put farmers out of the market and have garnered the funds for themselves. Again I could be wrong, I am just going on purely deductive reasoning and speculation.

[Memnir]

To sum up:
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[Phaeton_Seraph]

At this stage, the information has become well assimulated into the forums. You have to spend the time to go searching, or pay someone in some fashion that is agreed upon to do the work for you.

In which case, how is it they aren't too lazy to answer at all?

Not directed at you MM, but it's strange how people are so cool and generous with their time in the game server, but the people with the most time to spend on the forums can only be bothered to snark.

[Chai]

This entire thread is conjecture, on both sides. I see this conjecture alot, where people rationalize that it isnt against the rules until Turbine publicly proclaims otherwise. While we have seen some instances where this rationalization pays off and Turbine doesnt take action, we have also seen this same rationalization result in mass discipline. What we havent seen alot of is Turbine coming out of the woodwork and labeling specific actions acceptable or bannable. Cross the conjecture line at your own risk.

[Xynot2]

In which case, how is it they aren't too lazy to answer at all?

Not directed at you MM, but it's strange how people are so cool and generous with their time in the game server, but the people with the most time to spend on the forums can only be bothered to snark.

Well, post #2 was snarky because we had this discussion in game and tried to used # of years in game as a way to say he was the authority on the subject. And the snarky from him dwindled greatly because he said in game,*hasn't happened for 3 years* when people are saying it happened over Risa and the post from the CSR is only 2 years old.

They're snarky because they've been here so they think that what they say should carry more weight and we should bow to their experience. When it comes to the possibility of getting banned, they're players not employees so I'm gonna listen to the employee or my own instinct. And that somehow offends them.

[SableShadow]

Well, post #2 was snarky because we had this discussion in game and tried to used # of years in game as a way to say he was the authority on the subject. And the snarky from him dwindled greatly because he said in game,*hasn't happened for 3 years* when people are saying it happened over Risa and the post from the CSR is only 2 years old.

They're snarky because they've been here so they think that what they say should carry more weight and we should bow to their experience. When it comes to the possibility of getting banned, they're players not employees so I'm gonna listen to the employee or my own instinct. And that somehow offends them.

So, on a scale of 1 to Shade ...

[smatt]

LOL, this thread is STILL going on....

[Xynot2]

LOL, this thread is STILL going on....

It's ONLY 8 pages. P2W had more than 50! =)

[Merrelll]

They why aren't you sending a PM to the community support team instead of asking on here?

Yes, I have sent a PM and gotten "official" answers - even a "we haven't decided yet".

This response is pretty much why people think you are trolling and you are getting smart-ass answers. We have come to expect it.

Agreed. Why even start a post like this.