Where do people get these builds...

[HastyPudding]

...because I've seen some pretty horrific ones, lately. Don't people bother to research builds, anymore, instead of almost intentionally gimping themselves? I don't like to use the term gimp but...honestly, some people just don't get it, even after you try to explain things to them. Yes, you're supposed to have fun but there's a bright, neon red line between fun and useful. It might not for you, but it bothers me that people with the strangest, most poorly-thought-out builds think they're amazing.

I try to be nice to everybody, but sometimes it's like watching the most horrible audition on American Idol, where these people think they can sing but they're absolutely terrible. Where can you find drugs that would make one so delusional?

Just today I was hard farming a few runs of PoP in gianthold. I wasn't the party leader so I couldn't see classes until they actually came close, and a rogue joined with a ki bar. I thought, 'okay, maybe he's doing something with dark monk and rogue sneak attacks', nothing wrong with that, I've seen it before. Then he entered the quest.

10 rogue / 4 fighter / 2 monk
Small shield + bastard sword + random loot medium armor

I had found the definition of the word 'speechless'. Upon asking about his unique build, he stated he dealt awesome damage, and that he took every feat that pertained to shields, saying it gave him a ton of doublestrike, and he was building for PRR. Kill counts don't mean much, but in a party with a ranger AA (myself, and I have to say I do excellent dps with the right build), a clueless wizard, a THF fighter, and a healing-specced druid, he had the lowest amount for every run we did by a loooong shot. I'm talking 1-2 kills per run. You'd think after 16 levels somebody would have seriously told him, 'no, this isn't good, don't do that'. After a few attempts at explaining his build, him linking his god-awful bastard swords and shield, and a rather hilarious comment from the fighter, I gave up and left him to his delusions of grandeur.

Something needs to be done about this. I don't usually concern myself with ignorant people who refuse to listen to reason but I mean...wow...I'm still flabbergasted at the thought of somebody thinking this build would work.

Has anyone else encountered a really strange or absolutely horrible build, lately? I seem to be seeing far too many...there needs to be some way to get people to read the class/race forums more often.

[psi0nix]

he made it through the quests though ? - maybe not taking KC but no one really cares about that too much, (at least in regard to how good your build is).

If he can survive and do something useful then well... who cares ?

There are a heap of reasons for having 'gimp' builds, as I've said here before my 1st life sorc I built using my know how from PnP D&D, it didn't work out to be the 'best' build (190hp at lvl20 - 3000Sp (3 years or more ago), all in all a 'gimp' if ever there was one, with points in dex and things like that.

There is also those who just follow the path given by DDO, really the devs should put 'some' effort into those builds, at least make them a standard min/max build or something to give people a chance.

But yeah, I don't really care what someones build is, if I am in a PUG then it's given that I've opened the door to any and all, that's why it's a PUG, not a guild / channel run.

[maddmatt70]

I ran with a 9 barbarian 6 bard 5 rogue level 25 finesse light pick wielding halfling about 2-3 weeks ago. He wore white dragonplate and white dragon helm and he jumped around all the time for no apparent reason. He also would check for traps here or there randomly. My guildy and me were in the group with him and three other pugs. We were just mezmorized by him. I have never seen anything like him in 7 years of playing. I was disappointed when the group broke up because this guy took things to a whole new level. My guildy said after the run that his faith in the fun of running in pugs had been restored after this run.

[jandhaer]

An AA talking about non optimal builds lol thats funny :-D

j/k AA's are fun thats why i have one myself, cant blame anyone for wanting to try a non cookie cutter build thinking outside the box, if theyre having fun then theyre doing it right... just not in my groups :-P

[Syllph]

OP, I think the issue with the people who think they're amazing but really aren't is that they have nothing to compare themselves to. I've seen this a lot, some guy with a new shiny weapon dealing crappy damage, but to him it's the best he's seen on his toon. I saw a level 23 bragging about critting for 100.

[Bunker]

1: You could toss him a weapon, some other gear. Help him out, and guide him to become better.

2: Post on the forums berating the random pugger for doing nothing more than being him.

I could be mistaken, but we were all green at one time. We were all new to the game at least once.

-Bunk

P.S. OP, who are you?

[Bacab]

I have played with many badly built players.

I see some people play really weird builds and blow my mind with how good they are. Then I see some people that just are horrible.

I feel bad when someone is BRAND NEW and they have a terrible build. Especially if they do not find out until like level 9 or higher.

At that point, they think they should "just get to 20 and TR". What ends up happening is they have a bad toon that gets carried to 20. They realize this and hate the toon and then TR without gear or plat to fund the next life properly.

Us "old" players just had to re-roll.

I swear, the guy that gave me the "Goodblade" quests started recognizing me.

He would deride me not so subtly!

"Hey Bacab, you realized that an INT based Cleric sucks huh?" (yes I tried that...for diplo and stuff)

"How did your DEX based Halfing SOR work?" (AC, Ray Spells...)

"Yeah I could have told you that a Cleric>Paladin!" (Battle Cleric>PLD for survivability...)

"You realize that no one likes Warforged huh!?" (no one liked WF back then...seems we have come full circle)
*All these comments...from2006

Anyway, lotsa new players are hurt by seeing us be "UBER".

I remember hanging out in the Lobster and casting Remove Curse on people to be nice (used to be permanent).
A buddy and I both had level 5 Clerics just so when we partied...we would log into our Clerics and uncurse our new toons for each other...no way was the COINLORDS getting my MONEY!.

I remember going to some online thingy to trade good weapons. Sunblades...were KING!

I remember getting a Maelstrom on my Cleric in Tempest Spine...and people screaming over chat that it was a waste for a CLeric to get it.

Anyway...done reminiscing. My advice...if you are in a patient mood...help the new player. If you are not...get as far away from them as you can.

[9Crows]

a general rule of thumb about advice on anything ...if someones not asking for it they typically dont want it ...

ive seen some diferent builds and gear choices like everyone ...but the person who chose them had reasons for it which is good enough ...since this is just a game ... just a pleasant way to waste time

[Galeria]

Something needs to be done about this. I don't usually concern myself with ignorant people who refuse to listen to reason but I mean...wow...I'm still flabbergasted at the thought of somebody thinking this build would work.

What do you propose be done? And by whom?

[Hellllboy]

I am by far not a MIN/MAX'er. I play what is fun to me. If other players don't like it-that is not my problem.

A lot of players out there make strange builds just to gain past lives in the class and still support their play style. I am one of those players.

I would not judge to quickly how someone else builds a Character.

[zwiebelring]

10 Rogue for very obvious reasons.

1 special feat, sneak attack damage, UMD skills + trap skills. Fighter for BAB and feats. Monk for TWF and Evasion. What gives, as long as he is following an idea other than:

I'll take every feat in alphabetical order.

[danzig138]

Don't people bother to research builds, anymore, instead of almost intentionally gimping themselves?

I know. It's crazy that some folks might just like to try things out. Freaks.

Kill counts don't mean much

You misspelled "anything".

I have played with many badly built players.

Ditto. I mean, I remember this one time I played with a guy who had an extra thumb. Another time, I played with a guy whose right arm was where his left leg should have been, and he didn't even have a left leg!

Or did you mean characters?

[Chai]

When the top end players of a game complain about quest difficulty using the justification that newbies should be able to beat elite quests handedly rather than having to learn through failure, this is what happens. An entire new crop of players plays however they want, and they dont gain an understanding of whats best, because the game is so easy that their light pick swinging finesse barbarian is blowing through content. Theres no checks and balances built into any learning curve that will teach people that poor build decisions wont pay off, when those poor build decisions pay off in spades due to the easy buttoning of DDO. You cant give them advice by telling them that their build sucks either, because it doesnt sink in when they have been able to easily complete all quests they have tried on their first attempt, because they will just use that as justification of you being wrong about their character.

You supported the easy buttons? You supported light pick finesse barbarians and terribad multiclass splits with shields.

[goodspeed]

Hell in the end everyone's gonna be a divine healing, fighter plated nuking sorcerer. So why not fight it every little bit until the plato becomes one big multi colored gob.

[zwiebelring]

Yeah, more yelling about the game being too easy without specification, what exactly is too easy. Epic elite is definately not too easy.

[bigolbear]

...because I've seen some pretty horrific ones, lately. Don't people bother to research builds, anymore, instead of almost intentionally gimping themselves? I don't like to use the term gimp but...honestly, some people just don't get it, even after you try to explain things to them. Yes, you're supposed to have fun but there's a bright, neon red line between fun and useful. It might not for you, but it bothers me that people with the strangest, most poorly-thought-out builds think they're amazing.

I try to be nice to everybody, but sometimes it's like watching the most horrible audition on American Idol, where these people think they can sing but they're absolutely terrible. Where can you find drugs that would make one so delusional?

Just today I was hard farming a few runs of PoP in gianthold. I wasn't the party leader so I couldn't see classes until they actually came close, and a rogue joined with a ki bar. I thought, 'okay, maybe he's doing something with dark monk and rogue sneak attacks', nothing wrong with that, I've seen it before. Then he entered the quest.

10 rogue / 4 fighter / 2 monk
Small shield + bastard sword + random loot medium armor

I had found the definition of the word 'speechless'. Upon asking about his unique build, he stated he dealt awesome damage, and that he took every feat that pertained to shields, saying it gave him a ton of doublestrike, and he was building for PRR. Kill counts don't mean much, but in a party with a ranger AA (myself, and I have to say I do excellent dps with the right build), a clueless wizard, a THF fighter, and a healing-specced druid, he had the lowest amount for every run we did by a loooong shot. I'm talking 1-2 kills per run. You'd think after 16 levels somebody would have seriously told him, 'no, this isn't good, don't do that'. After a few attempts at explaining his build, him linking his god-awful bastard swords and shield, and a rather hilarious comment from the fighter, I gave up and left him to his delusions of grandeur.

Something needs to be done about this. I don't usually concern myself with ignorant people who refuse to listen to reason but I mean...wow...I'm still flabbergasted at the thought of somebody thinking this build would work.

Has anyone else encountered a really strange or absolutely horrible build, lately? I seem to be seeing far too many...there needs to be some way to get people to read the class/race forums more often.

Op, the simple solution is this: of you dont like partying with some one for any reason then dont.

I play a lot of funky builds - I enjoy trying out new ideas. Not all of them work - and many have iffy lvls, but its people like me that do the leg work for all the forum builds you see. I cant say whether the person you are talking about falls into this category or not obviously.

So putting my 'building experience' on the table here.. heres how I see the person your deriding's build going down at lvl 25. (This is a posibility, and if hes going for what i think hes going for it would be close to this)

12 rogue, 6 fighter, 2 monk(light).

weapon choice is bastard sword+ sheild.

feats: (4 ftr, 2 mnk, 9 general, 1 rog) - total 14.
toughness, sheild mastery, imp sheild mastery, powerattack, cleave, great cleave, imp crit, opportunist, bastard sword, imp sheild bash, combat expertise, (precision or resiliance or extra toughness or DM sentinal), overwhelming crit, epic toughness.

The monk lvls are a bit of a puzel to the uninitiated and would be there on a build like that for the bonus feats and the bonus saving throws.

critical items would be:
imp deception item, good hvy armour, good light armour, towershields, bastard swords.

critical skills would be bluff, diplo and intim + trapping/stealth.

enhancements: assassin 2 + stalwart 1.

destiny, either shadow dancer, sentinal or dred. + twists from the others.

The way it would work:
a: tanking - yes it would make a viable tank, either ac+ PRR or ac + evasion depending on whats needed. with deception procing and intim it would hold agro fine.

b: more likely a defensive oriented cleaving rogue. with large double strike numbers + cleave + great cleave + shield bash + sneak attack this build could amass very very good AOE DPS - then shed agro using diplo and repeat. It would work in the same way an '2HF insight rogue' does but with potentialy better damage due to double strike.

What im saying is this OP.

I could take that build and make it work, make it work very well indeed. Whether the person who upset you could do the same is something probably only they know. The fact they were wearing medium armour... well it was only giant hold, perhaps they simply hadnt sorted their gear out yet - I know i generaly sort my gear out while lvling at lvls 7, 11, 15, 20 and of course 25.

And as I said not all experiments work, but if we dont experiment then people who only play cookie cutter builds that get posted to the forum would have nothign to play but pureclass.

EDIT: a further thought occurs...

if this build was in fury of the wild the DPS would be astounding.
look at all these opportunities for sneak attack (aoe)

1 x from base attack.
.2 x from imp sheild bash.
.x (aprox .3) from double strike.
.x (aprox .3) 100% from fury when in adrenaline overload, + a small normal proc chance.

Thats an average 1.8 ish x sneak attack damage and its AOE twice every 5 seconds. If you can time your adrenaline and cleaves.. owy.

[mobrien316]

...because I've seen some pretty horrific ones, lately. Don't people bother to research builds, anymore, instead of almost intentionally gimping themselves? I don't like to use the term gimp but...honestly, some people just don't get it, even after you try to explain things to them. Yes, you're supposed to have fun but there's a bright, neon red line between fun and useful. It might not for you, but it bothers me that people with the strangest, most poorly-thought-out builds think they're amazing.

I try to be nice to everybody, but sometimes it's like watching the most horrible audition on American Idol, where these people think they can sing but they're absolutely terrible. Where can you find drugs that would make one so delusional?

Just today I was hard farming a few runs of PoP in gianthold. I wasn't the party leader so I couldn't see classes until they actually came close, and a rogue joined with a ki bar. I thought, 'okay, maybe he's doing something with dark monk and rogue sneak attacks', nothing wrong with that, I've seen it before. Then he entered the quest.

10 rogue / 4 fighter / 2 monk
Small shield + bastard sword + random loot medium armor

I had found the definition of the word 'speechless'. Upon asking about his unique build, he stated he dealt awesome damage, and that he took every feat that pertained to shields, saying it gave him a ton of doublestrike, and he was building for PRR. Kill counts don't mean much, but in a party with a ranger AA (myself, and I have to say I do excellent dps with the right build), a clueless wizard, a THF fighter, and a healing-specced druid, he had the lowest amount for every run we did by a loooong shot. I'm talking 1-2 kills per run. You'd think after 16 levels somebody would have seriously told him, 'no, this isn't good, don't do that'. After a few attempts at explaining his build, him linking his god-awful bastard swords and shield, and a rather hilarious comment from the fighter, I gave up and left him to his delusions of grandeur.

Something needs to be done about this. I don't usually concern myself with ignorant people who refuse to listen to reason but I mean...wow...I'm still flabbergasted at the thought of somebody thinking this build would work.

Has anyone else encountered a really strange or absolutely horrible build, lately? I seem to be seeing far too many...there needs to be some way to get people to read the class/race forums more often.

Did he die every few seconds? Did he run off in random directions for no reason? Did he not know what a sneak attack was? Other than not leading the kill count, was there any indication he was a bad or clueless player?

I don't see the problem.

[zarthak]

theres a character planner for this... why do we need to make builds that make no sense?

[zwiebelring]

I won't play clones of any sort. Past lives and destinies give so much choices and options now, if someone cannot grasp a specific build, he may ask the person who is online at the very moment instead of starting threads with the only reason to point at it with his/her finger.

theres a character planner for this... why do we need to make builds that make no sense?

Maybe it was used.

[Emurian]

a general rule of thumb about advice on anything ...if someones not asking for it they typically dont want it ...

Untrue IMO, some of the newer players just dont seem to have the courage to ask a TRX for some advice. What I always do is saying: May I give you some tips? You notice that players happily take in advice when offered in a nice way unlike the: **** gimp, how did you get that idea in your head, you obviously have a bad build etc etc.

Its all about not pushing them to take on your advice, I always give them some tips to get rid off the biggest flaws in their builds and tell them if they ever want advice, just shoot a tell and il take my time to help them out. Best way imo to let people realise that their toon could be much more then their playing with atm.

On topic, as for the first post regarding research. Im sorry to say but the forums aren't really that reliable either when it comes to building a toon. I have seen a couple of builds on here that where flawed with their feat selections. Therefor I only look on the forum for inspiration and then alter the build to my own playing style.

As for strange builds, I find the WF ranger / pally / rogue splash of my guildie Crossy to be somewhat weird. Even more cuz he always uses 2 handers but then again once you play with him you notice that it works. . in his hands that is. I dont write off weird builds straightaway, the build and gear isn't even half the thing that makes the toon, gaming skills can make up for allot of the gimpness that we might perceive about the build =).

Thats why I never denied a toon with a exotic build, I do make a mental note of the players name if I see him fail utterly in multiple quests but thats about it. Also, I dont grade a toon its effectiveness based upon the amount of kills he makes. My wizard can come out as a top killer in allot of groups by simply nuking and instantkilling everything but allot of times I prefer to toy around a bit and use as much CC as possible. Differen't approach but both just as effective [depending upon the quest some situations demand one out of 2 approaches but their mostly both valid approaches.]

You just seem to have had the bad luck to end up with a player that indeed had a flawed build and lacking the skills to make up for it. By my guessing he was to stubborn to take on advice, if that, coupled with the fact he died allot and didn't contribute much to the group caused you to rage thats perfectly understandeble. Heres my tip for you when it happens, go smoke a cigarette and continue playing once your calmed down again a bit. That always works for me =p.