14.1: Freedom of Movement

[Havok.cry]

Actually mine is somewhat reversed. Will grease finally f'ing work against mobs?

Grease might work on mobs if they allowed heighten to work on it, but like a few other spells it doesn't so its useless.

[Ivan_Milic]

Just wait until U15. Deathward will no longer protect against Death spells either. It will be "Non-magical death effects only".

This is how they get most of their ideas.

[redspecter23]

After the change, what exactly does FoM prevent besides hold person/monster? I know pugs will continue to ask for it for a number of things it will no longer prevent and I don't want to be one of those pugs

[SisAmethyst]

After the change, what exactly does FoM prevent besides hold person/monster? I know pugs will continue to ask for it for a number of things it will no longer prevent and I don't want to be one of those pugs

Well, that is easy, just assume it ONLY prevent hold person/monster and you are on the good side

As far as web goes, I fear it will not prevent you from being hold in a silky glue like fiber from a web neither. While it is cast as a spell it is conjuration (creation) and therefore physically create the entanglement, like the grapple from the earth grab. As one already said by someone else, along with Remove Poison another free spell slot on a Cleric/FvS...

[Quetzacoala]

Just wait until U15. Deathward will no longer protect against Death spells either. It will be "Non-magical death effects only".

I would love for this change to be made in U15.

Wait... being killed by weapons counts as a non-magical death effect, right?

[irivan]

To me Earthgrab would be considered a grapple, and you should automatically be able to beat it. Also chaps my hide that the new traps slow effect should also be stopped by FOM.

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Freedom_of_Movement


Freedom of Movement
Abjuration
Level: Asn 4, Blg 4, Brd 4, Clr 4, Drd 4, Liberation 4, Luck 4, Rgr 4
Components: V, S, M, DF
Casting time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal or touch
Target: You or creature touched
Duration: 10 min./level
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)

This spell enables you or a creature you touch to move and attack normally for the duration of the spell, even under the influence of magic that usually impedes movement, such as paralysis, solid fog, slow, and web. The subject automatically succeeds on any grapple check made to resist a grapple attempt, as well as on grapple checks or Escape Artist checks made to escape a grapple or a pin.
The spell also allows the subject to move and attack normally while underwater, even with slashing weapons such as axes and swords or with bludgeoning weapons such as flails, hammers, and maces, provided that the weapon is wielded in the hand rather than hurled. The freedom of movement spell does not, however, allow water breathing.
Material Component: A leather thong, bound around the arm or a similar appendage.

[Khellendros13]

To me Earthgrab would be considered a grapple, and you should automatically be able to beat it. Also chaps my hide that the new traps slow effect should also be stopped by FOM.

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Freedom_of_Movement


Freedom of Movement
Abjuration
Level: Asn 4, Blg 4, Brd 4, Clr 4, Drd 4, Liberation 4, Luck 4, Rgr 4
Components: V, S, M, DF
Casting time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal or touch
Target: You or creature touched
Duration: 10 min./level
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)

This spell enables you or a creature you touch to move and attack normally for the duration of the spell, even under the influence of magic that usually impedes movement, such as paralysis, solid fog, slow, and web. The subject automatically succeeds on any grapple check made to resist a grapple attempt, as well as on grapple checks or Escape Artist checks made to escape a grapple or a pin.
The spell also allows the subject to move and attack normally while underwater, even with slashing weapons such as axes and swords or with bludgeoning weapons such as flails, hammers, and maces, provided that the weapon is wielded in the hand rather than hurled. The freedom of movement spell does not, however, allow water breathing.
Material Component: A leather thong, bound around the arm or a similar appendage.

The very first line clearly implies FoM applying to magical and non magical forms of movement impedance.

[Aashrym]

FoM definitely still protects from grease. I didn't run into any web spells on Lamma and cannot verify that one.

So all the evil greasers out there are still sol.

[azrael4h]

I would love for this change to be made in U15.

Wait... being killed by weapons counts as a non-magical death effect, right?

Only prior to level 7. After level 7, all mobs' weapons will be enchanted, and thus be considered a "magical death effect". However, you will be protected from death by chaining too many dirty kobolds down at one time.

FoM is now called "Freedom of a level 4 spell slot". Sadly, my Bard has nothing better to take there.

[Voldomar]

I can't see how this would make the game more fun... Best case scenario, it adds nothing but a mild frustration.
There's a reason why most players hate air elementals ( unrelated to FoM, but the point still stands ) and earth elemental ( unlimited range, no line of sight earthgrab ). Now we add spiders ( web ), ice flensers ( slippery surface ) and more to the fray.

Whoever thought this change needs to be slapped hard with a d&d 3.5 player's handbook.
These little, pointless, unnecessary changes, done for the sake of it, are those that irk me the most. Even more so when disregarding the ruleset this game is based on, does not improve the fun.

[Illarvan]

Is this because we are running through the all bear traps and not appreciating all the new content and not stopping to look once in a while, at least we'll have too now.

[azrael4h]

Even more so when disregarding the ruleset this game is based on, does not improve the fun.

It's a game, why in the **** would it be fun for the players?

[PNellesen]

It's a game, why in the **** would it be fun for the players?

I think this is what the devs have lost sight of. In the effort to make it more "challenging" for the top tier players, they've removed a lot of the "fun" from the game for everyone else.

I simply don't understand this incessant need to reduce the effectiveness of spell after spell, update after update.

[NUDS]

Well it's not so much "challenging" as "Hey we introduced some shiny new mechanics and gimmicky effects. What?!? There's a spell that allows players to bypass that?? NERF NERF NERF IT TO THE GROUND".

Poison/Disease Immunity: Instead of making mobs have an "skill-shot" which allows the player to avoid or migrate using player skill and experience, they took the easy path and just removed Poison/Disease Immunity from equipment and WF/PM racials.

FoM: This would have probably blocked the Drider Web Line and bears traps, so guess what NERF NERF.

[voodoogroves]

Being on your back or not being able to do anything is not fun; it's caveat. I get that immunity can work both ways to eliminate some variability in encounter design - both on the player AND opponent side.

These changes are still "blanket" responses.



If the problem is that FOM is too readily available, cut the duration or increase the SP. It isn't like there are a bazillion items that grant it.

[Truga]

Wait, so they first broke earthgrab for everyone because it didn't work on WF. Now they just broke FoM altogether because screw immunities. Hey, turbine, there's already things that ignore FoM (horned devil chains that Suulo does come to mind), why not implement that kind of stuff for hard boss encounters? Why instead just completely break a spell?

For crying out loud, this is again the same thing as disease/poison immunity. I'm still waiting for WF to lose the -2 to wis and charisma, since half of their immunities are gone by now. I'm betting that after this FoM nerf even their paralysis/sleep/flesh to stone immunity is nerfed hard.

[MRMechMan]

I'm betting that after this FoM nerf even their paralysis/sleep/flesh to stone immunity is nerfed hard.

There are no nerfs.

Only features.

[LordArkan]

I think this is what the devs have lost sight of. In the effort to make it more "challenging" for the top tier players, they've removed a lot of the "fun" from the game for everyone else.

I simply don't understand this incessant need to reduce the effectiveness of spell after spell, update after update.

Pretty much-- it makes me wonder if Monte Cook is working for Turbine now, as I had never seen anyone else so vehemently anti-player in their game design.

[voodoogroves]

My bigger issue isn't the adjustment of things to create balance, but the kinda sideways direction things are being changed.


The first poison/disease notion was horrid - the current one at least is somewhat thematic with D&D and achieves a balanced blend of capability based on the scales involved (HP and time are very different than PNP). With Wail, instead of adjusting the cooldown or increasing the SP cost, their gut reaction was to whole-sale change every death effect at first.


This FOM change is heading down another initial path that looks and feels "bad".

[MrkGrismer]

I understand the devs are making changes like this to increase flexibility, but I am starting to get concerned that they are doing them to encourage the flexibility of checking out other games, by other companies.

This particular one makes zero sense in my book, it is not like FoM is available to a lot of classes, and has been previously mentioned it is at a level where it is only slotted for its usefulness, take that away and there is no reason to slot it.

I would be concerned that it will not work on the ice patches for ice renders or on sleet storm's ice.

I would also be concerned that the next nerf will be to turn Underwater Action items into +10 Swim items.