+3 Stats tome...Yes or no...

[dunklezhan]

hmm. A qualified yes from me - yes IF they start dropping at a reasonable rate (like other tomes) through the rest of the non-raid game, or make them less than 20 completions at least. If they have less inherent value due to lower scarcity in the rest of the game, I have no problem with them.

And while they're at it they can increase the drop rates of other store available special items like ADs, armour kits, beholder amulets and so on.

If those things don't happen... then no.

Overall - I suspect no is the more likely outcome, so take that as my vote.

[WruntJunior]

Yes. I would vote multiple times if I could. Anything to save me having to do a bajillion more shrouds on my ranger.

[ColsonJade]

No

[Trillea]

Not just no but **** NO!

[talyor]

NO!!!!!!!! until they are added to the common loot table since Turbine said they would not put raid loot in the DDO store and right now +3 tomes are still raid LOOT!!!!!!!!

[dunklezhan]

having read this:

Just wanted to take a moment to thank everyone for their feedback and talk a little more about the future of tomes…

The items and offers in the DDO Store are something we review constantly – we always want to offer things that help enhance a player’s game experience, but we also want to ensure that end game rewards are not trivialized.

That being said, the game is in a constant state of growth and change. This means older content and reward schemes are always under review to ensure that the rarity and challenge is appropriate for how players are progressing through the game experience, especially as they advance into epic content. We’re currently exploring ways to introduce more chances for +3 tomes to appear in the game beyond raiding, to be more consistent with a character’s advancement (and no I don’t mean the Festival Jester).

Again, thank you all for your comments and polite discussion!

I'm now more inclined to go with yes.

[irivan]

The Forum experts are losing the battle and its killing them.

yes.

[redspecter23]

No.

When +3 tomes show up in the regular loot tables and are not raid loot, then I'll very easily change it to a yes. For now, no.

[Egeus]

With things being as they currently are: yes. I have been skunked for tomes on chests and end rewards through 60 runs of Shroud, > 60 runs of Reaver, and over 100 runs of Abbot + VoD + HoX + ToD. The grind isn't worth it.

If +3/+4 tomes get real loot table boosts or are available as a guaranteed reward for something, then I'll change my vote. I'd rather get my gear from the game than from the store, but right now I don't see getting them from the game as a valid option.

[Falford]

Sence there is no PvP and this is at heart cooperative game I really don't get why this is even an issue let alone something for people to be upset about.

[Drwaz99]

The elitism in here makes me a sad panda.

"I had bad luck and had to suffer through 5 years to get a +3 tome, so everyone else should"

Revenue for Turbine = good. Accessibility for new players = good. Casual gaming is on the rise (curse you farmville) and is fast becoming the majority. It's bad business to alienate the majority of a marketshare.

Gameplay wise, don't like it, don't buy it. I know a man is measured by the size of his con score, but really, if player X buys +3 tomes, what does that take away from you? Your stats go down? You can no longer hit for over 9000? Your quest completions now shows 0 reaver completes instead of 131?

A resounding Yes, and kudos to Turbine for having the grapes to make such an 'un-popular' decision.

All that said, I've pulled enough +3 tomes over the years that I won't be buying any

I think you took my post to help justify an agenda. If we KNEW the money spent went to what PLAYERS really want, then it's a good idea to put them in the store. That's paramount to me. U11 showed a somewhat increased awareness of Turbine to what the players want but in some areas a total lack of regard. I really don't care if people have +1 CON on me. And I have pulled a few +3 and a couple +4....strangely from coin turn-ins and end rewards. I also don't have the ability to play 100+ hours a week as some do. The math is simple:

More hours playing = better chance at better stuff.

Should that change? Heck no!

BF3 is coming out and it requires almost 100 hours per kit to unlock everything for that kit. I think it's awesome.

Your assumptions that people always choose tomes as end rewards is somewhat flawed..in any cases, people get the rewards that didn't drop at the 20/40 marks. And not all of us can run every raid as soon as the time goes up, but just for an example (I don't know the precise number, and this make a even round number) but say it's 2.5 days timer multiply by 20 is fifty days. How many raids are in the game. That's a lot of playing, and people DO have lives outside DDO. So in some cases 100 hours to get that +3 tome that might drop on an 60th reward. Not all tomes drop.

Revenue = high salaries for employee's and doesn't directly relate to our game, nor it's progress (tho is probably does to a degree [How much money you think Fernando makes?]) and a higher number on the stock market for WB. Your confused if you think less...Exec Producers and up want to see numbers, no matter the cost, lest it cost them their bonus. That may or may not be 100% true. but it's close. Just look at Fernando's PAX 11 video explanation of Cannith Crafting..now look at how it is now..that's salesmanship. The two are nowhere near the same entity.

Accessibility for new players = good. Casual gaming is on the rise (curse you farmville)

Not the ideal example..Farmville is for the lazy person at work and those who will move on fairly quickly to another game. Basically a time passer. It gets old and boring.

Putting things into the store to buy is like GODMODE in the SIMS..Fun for a while..then you move on.

But should they really start showing an attempt to listen/implement/react to what we say, it may change mind and many others too. Maljunction is the only one so far to even start that, so Kudos to him...

Speaking of him, where's my week-end report!?!? I want graphs this time!

[Quetzacoala]

This was once a balanced game
Bringing honor to its name

But now stores will carry plus three tomes
Ignoring every persons moans

Raid loot can now be bought
A simply ludicrous thought

This lowers the need for raids
The quality of the game degrades

Turbine has made a grave mistake
This course of action they must forsake

If they do not, we will rebel
This whole game will go to hell

In other words, no

So ticked off I started a thread against it... in rhyme! http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...40#post4107040

[blkcat1028]

Does anyone else think this is a sign of an impending level cap increase?

In the 2011 "State of the Game" thingy, here, Fernando talks about great progress being made in introducing epic levels.

That coupled with this;

Just wanted to take a moment to thank everyone for their feedback and talk a little more about the future of tomes…

The items and offers in the DDO Store are something we review constantly – we always want to offer things that help enhance a player’s game experience, but we also want to ensure that end game rewards are not trivialized.

That being said, the game is in a constant state of growth and change. This means older content and reward schemes are always under review to ensure that the rarity and challenge is appropriate for how players are progressing through the game experience, especially as they advance into epic content. We’re currently exploring ways to introduce more chances for +3 tomes to appear in the game beyond raiding, to be more consistent with a character’s advancement (and no I don’t mean the Festival Jester).

Again, thank you all for your comments and polite discussion!

makes me believe it's imminent.

What do you think?

[ironmaiden-br]

No!

[Megahurtz]

No.

[Drwaz99]

Does anyone else think this is a sign of an impending level cap increase?

In the 2011 "State of the Game" thingy, here, Fernando talks about great progress being made in introducing epic levels.

That coupled with this;



makes me believe it's imminent.

What do you think?

If you consider what he says, and what has happened in the past..I gotta bet no, not in the near future. It'll be cool and eye bleeding for tr'ing..but I just don't see it in them. I have reasons, but way off topic for this thread.

[Zargarx]

yes, based on Tolero's post.

but yet again it appears someone at turbine is fumbling the ball. Most of the unhappiness that is not bug related could have easily been diffused to a major extent with timely well worded posts.

Two examples

"We are making changes in the higher loot tables including having +3 tomes in regular chests for update 11.1"
And then a few days after that goes live then announce the tomes available in the store.

Similar with artificers, an official post when they hit lama about the favor...

[Drwaz99]

Does anyone else think this is a sign of an impending level cap increase?

In the 2011 "State of the Game" thingy, here, Fernando talks about great progress being made in introducing epic levels.

That coupled with this;



makes me believe it's imminent.

What do you think?

It's a clue, but EPIC LOB is by far the hardest EPIC raid out there and it takes lots of resources/well equipped toons. Epic items need a revamp (well excluding the present ones already) and I think a major tweak to the game if it get into the lvl 25 arenas. Your just going to exclude too many of the player base to do it (even tho I want it!)

[Drwaz99]

yes, based on Tolero's post.

but yet again it appears someone at turbine is fumbling the ball. Most of the unhappiness that is not bug related could have easily been diffused to a major extent with timely well worded posts.

Two examples

"We are making changes in the higher loot tables including having +3 tomes in regular chests for update 11.1"
And then a few days after that goes live then announce the tomes available in the store.

Similar with artificers, an official post when they hit lama about the favor...

I think a PR person is well needed at Turbine..you hit it one the nose..too many people saying the same thing, but very differently.

[sephiroth1084]

No.

No.

Not any raid loot. And certainly not the rarest of all raid loot.


Quoting a latter post, but like this poster, I'd change my position on the issue if +3s became unbound non-raid loot without artifically deflated drop rates. i.e. if they dropped in level 21+ content the way +2s drop in 17+ now.

I'm of the same mind as Sirgog, here.

Hmm...

As it stands, I will say "No"

BUT.....

If +3 tomes become normal/standard loot in high level quests, and they adjust tome drops in raids to include +4's in Elite VoD/Shroud/Hound.... Normal-Hard ToD/LoB/MA.... and put +5's in Elite ToD, Elite/Epic LoB/MA.....

Then I would vote Yes, but only if this happens within a month of them going on sale in the store.

I agree raid loot shouldn't be in the DDO store, but I do think it's time +3's got knocked down a peg and +4's replace +3s and +5's get added in to "end game content"

I think that's a bit much.

+3s should be dropping more regularly in Elite Hound and VoD, should be dropping in Elite Shroud's end chest with some regularity and should be dropping unbound in ToD (ambivalent about the difficulty), some epic quests, all epic raids (ie we should be seeing some popping up in chests in Chronoscope) and in the new raids.

Don't think we need to move beyond +4s until we see a level cap raise.