Racial Spell Defenses, how do they compare?

[Raoull]

I'm wondering how people think the new Drow SR and HE paladin dilly compare with the other races with notable spell defenses. As of the next update, this is what races have (assuming max AP investment):


Drow: lvl +10 SR, +5 saves vs. enchantments
Dwarves: +5 saves vs. spells, +5 saves vs. poison
Elves: +5 saves vs. enchantments
Half-Elves: possible +5 on all saves (paladin dilly), +5 on all saves (only 20 secs at a time)
Half-Orcs: absolutely nothing
Halflings: +5 on all saves
Humans: +5 on all saves (only 20 secs at a time)
Warforged: Immune to sleep, hold person, energy drain, nausea, exhaustion, poison, disease, and paralysis effects, and anything against a Humanoid. +3 vs. will based enchantments. +3 fort save


Now in the past, it seems the best defenses were WF immunities or Halfling saves, with Dwarves somewhat in the picture.

How does Half-Elf and the new Drow SR change the picture?

The HE is easier to comprehend. Basically, if you're looking for saves on a character that already has a high CHA, it is the same if not better than a halfling (since a halfling will need to spend more AP). This seems most likely a possibility for a Cleric or a FvS, or possibly a Sorcerer (but WF repairs seems to overwhelm saves).

The main build I wonder about is the halfling clonk. HE's lose the +1 AC & tohit and the sneak attack bonuses. But they gain healing amp, no minus to str, +1 to 2 more useful stats than dex, and the human action boosts. It really only works for any clonk looking to get DM though, as others probably won't have enough CHA. (And I'm not really sure spending points on CHA to get DM is worth it. DM + this may be though... dunno.)

FvS is also a bit interesting. One option might be to run with the Fighter Dilly at lower lvls, then when BB is available swap it out for the awesome saves.

Drow is the odder duck. SR works totally different from saves. For divine casters, it isn't quite as good as their buff (although it can't be dispelled, which definitely has some value) but for others it has considerable value. Unfortunately, their odd stats still seem to throw everything off. The best uses of their stats involve needing dex and cha (nearly everything can use some int) which pretty much means TWF users who need cha. Which, other than paladin, includes maybe only clonks... who can cast the spell. Rogues and fighter types who want decent UMD and intimidate might be interested... if it weren't for the pesky -con. It seems like this change gives a huge bump to drow... but yet not actually enough of one to get them to being better than other races at anything new. (And all they really have is pure 20 paladin, and probably not even that compared to Humans.)


Any thoughts?

[irivan]

Hmm was thinking that Drow SR, could have an impact, even on Epic....

However, i was trying to think of non Damage spells being cast by epic mobs......


I guess some of the Otto's being cast out there will be resisted some thing WF are not immune to at all.

But really outside of that a lot of the stuff being cast can be prevented by other racial immunities or by spell defenses..

Maybe the one thing it will really matter for is beholder rays.

Hmmmm.......

[Matuse]

How does Half-Elf and the new Drow SR change the picture?

Very little, if at all. At low levels, SR is pretty good for all of the hold person you are subjected to prior to getting access to FoM.

But high level? Almost totally pointless.

Damage spells all ignore SR totally. No protection of any kind.

Poison/Disease/Blindness/Instant Death/Command/Stat Damage...these things all:
a) Are easy to be immune to
or
b) Can be trivially cured with cheap potions or a Heal spell
or
c) Can be ignored totally as they have no meaningful penalty

What does that leave? Dancing, energy drain, exhaustion...monsters that tend to cast these kinds of spells have such high caster level that SR 30 will not help the players one bit. Energy drain would be basically limited to only beholders...any other opponent and you can get immunity via Death Ward.