Newbs Vs Vet's ye gods make it stop!

[Dark_Helmet]

LOL, I think the new rallying cry for newbs is the lag. OMG I died because of the lag. OMG I ran into that trap cuz of the lag. I suck right now because of the lag... It's the amazing catch-all, who can say they have lag, you can't know for sure. After a while it gets kinda obvious...

PS. I can post very well right now... LAG!

Guess I am noobsauce, because the first reason I die is always due to lag going back for 4 years!

The second is that Laura said something and I was getting it translated.

[Raegoul]

...people that just say 'Hi Welcome' are flagging themselves for us.

They are flagging themselves as people who really have no capacity for original thought. That joke isn't funny anymore kiddo!

Hi Welcome

[Dark_Helmet]

n what im telling u is i dont see that much spam as u are all saying perhaps ur hanging out with the wrong peeps lol

but to the point its attitudes like urs, u reread ur post n see how u sounded/read

also clarify exactly what rules are being broken and define "spam"

seriously ur reply to Angel just read like a spoiled kid upset cause new players are doing things diff from how u old one do etc

if u dont care why are u here replying ?

Some (and only some) of u vets sound like old hicky country preachers spouting the word of our saviour jesus while telling us thou shalt not break "my" rules or u shall burn in hell etc, its getting old real fast .

Sorry, I don't speak Thumblina, so I am guessing at what you typed:
I don't understand.

Okay, if I see something is a violation - and people have been suspended for it - I want to let people know before they get suspended. They are not "my" rules.


There was a time when there were people loading up the LFM for guild recruitment, things for sale and miscellaneous comments (the Kyhber lagfest in my case). After it went on for a couple of pages and players complained, the GMs popped in and started telling people to pull them down or they would get suspended. After several players had attitudes of "I don't know of any better place", they just started kicking people off if they didn't pull it down right away.

As an example, I got caught up in the lag ones as I had an LFM for a group (legit), but I also had "Khyber, it's lagtastic" as a joke). A GM (who used to post on here and was fair to players), popped in and said to take it down. I said I just had the line on there as a joke and he came back with "if not take down right away, you are supended". I can tell he was not having a good day and I took it down. I am sure there are those who "fought the system" and questioned authority and got suspended before he dealt with me.


So, yeah old timers do seem to have some lessons learned. I am sorry you still don't understand but maybe some other new players can be helped before they get suspended.

PS -

Hi Welcome

[SilkofDrasnia]

Sorry, I don't speak Thumblina, so I am guessing at what you typed:
I don't understand.

Okay, if I see something is a violation - and people have been suspended for it - I want to let people know before they get suspended. They are not "my" rules.


There was a time when there were people loading up the LFM for guild recruitment, things for sale and miscellaneous comments (the Kyhber lagfest in my case). After it went on for a couple of pages and players complained, the GMs popped in and started telling people to pull them down or they would get suspended. After several players had attitudes of "I don't know of any better place", they just started kicking people off if they didn't pull it down right away.

As an example, I got caught up in the lag ones as I had an LFM for a group (legit), but I also had "Khyber, it's lagtastic" as a joke). A GM (who used to post on here and was fair to players), popped in and said to take it down. I said I just had the line on there as a joke and he came back with "if not take down right away, you are supended". I can tell he was not having a good day and I took it down. I am sure there are those who "fought the system" and questioned authority and got suspended before he dealt with me.


So, yeah old timers do seem to have some lessons learned. I am sorry you still don't understand but maybe some other new players can be helped before they get suspended.

PS -

Hi Welcome

well im sorry if ur only trying to help then kudos n my bad its just as a relatively new player reading the thread ur post i first quoted didnt look that way at all, just came across as really arrogant atleast too me

also i asked for clarification on what exactly u meant by spam, ur example u just gave well i agree if its affecting the lfm's but like ive said i see what only one lfm a day with with new guild recruiting etc that not really spam atleast to me.

im not defending this mind u i just think some things here are being blown out of proportion. as for being a vet i was a vet in lc i played that for aslong as u played this game n i learned stuff the hard way.

im also honest enough to admit that at sometimes it made me arrogant and as humans when we are fustrated we tend to take the easy way n blame others so ull understand when when i see a vet here its not lack of respect on my part not wanting to kiss there bottoms for a guild invite advice etc .

i apreciate n sometimes ask for n love it when an older players show me thru a quest so i know how its meant to be done what i dislike is when they expect me to fawn n grovel n sniff in odd places to show my appreciation

not gonna happen

[Angel_Barchild]

Sorry, I don't speak Thumblina, so I am guessing at what you typed:
I don't understand.

Okay, if I see something is a violation - and people have been suspended for it - I want to let people know before they get suspended. They are not "my" rules.


There was a time when there were people loading up the LFM for guild recruitment, things for sale and miscellaneous comments (the Kyhber lagfest in my case). After it went on for a couple of pages and players complained, the GMs popped in and started telling people to pull them down or they would get suspended. After several players had attitudes of "I don't know of any better place", they just started kicking people off if they didn't pull it down right away.

As an example, I got caught up in the lag ones as I had an LFM for a group (legit), but I also had "Khyber, it's lagtastic" as a joke). A GM (who used to post on here and was fair to players), popped in and said to take it down. I said I just had the line on there as a joke and he came back with "if not take down right away, you are supended". I can tell he was not having a good day and I took it down. I am sure there are those who "fought the system" and questioned authority and got suspended before he dealt with me.


So, yeah old timers do seem to have some lessons learned. I am sorry you still don't understand but maybe some other new players can be helped before they get suspended.

PS -

Hi Welcome

It might surprise you to know but I do undrestand and respect what you are saying. Here is the problem, you can't get advice across with a board up side the head. This is a lesson that took me 15 years to learn. There is nothing wronge with giving advice when asked, or when you see someone doing something that might end up with a ban or the like.

Unfortunatley it has turned into a constant barrage of "noobs are stupid, and if they would just do exactly what I tell them everything would work perfectly. Runs would never fail, everyone would always get what they need out of chest the lag would go away." It grates on people's nerves, and puts people off who would have normaly asked for help.

Before someone says it, I also know that running with ignorant people grates as well, there is however a cure. Two in fact; one if someone is no fun to run with, then don't run with them (this goes for noobs and vets alike) and two, time, with time the current crop of new players will get better at the game. You sucked when you started, and they suck now. This is just a fact.

Most new players want to learn and get better at the game. When vet players isolate them or constantly berate them, then they are going to find others of a like mindset to play with. This narrows the knowledge base for them to learn from, thus they take longer to get better at the game. This in turn makes them more irritating to vet players and the whole thing gets worse.

There is a middle path. It's even easy to do. Help those who ask, and squelch those who bother you. This game is ment to be fun. If you are not playing to have fun they maybe you should look into something else for entertainment.

[MeliCat]

well im sorry if ur only trying to help then kudos n my bad its just as a relatively new player reading the thread ur post i first quoted didnt look that way at all, just came across as really arrogant atleast too me

also i asked for clarification on what exactly u meant by spam, ur example u just gave well i agree if its affecting the lfm's but like ive said i see what only one lfm a day with with new guild recruiting etc that not really spam atleast to me.

im not defending this mind u i just think some things here are being blown out of proportion. as for being a vet i was a vet in lc i played that for aslong as u played this game n i learned stuff the hard way.

im also honest enough to admit that at sometimes it made me arrogant and as humans when we are fustrated we tend to take the easy way n blame others so ull understand when when i see a vet here its not lack of respect on my part not wanting to kiss there bottoms for a guild invite advice etc .

i apreciate n sometimes ask for n love it when an older players show me thru a quest so i know how its meant to be done what i dislike is when they expect me to fawn n grovel n sniff in odd places to show my appreciation

not gonna happen

uh huh.

we started at around about the same time. i don't seem to have the same issues as you though. what is more i *know* i came from behind as this was my first MMO and i never played twitch type games (and am appalling at FPSes).

i do not see the vet arrogance that you see. i do see players who know this game backwards and don't want to play with me 'cos i'm new and slow - and that is a perfectly fine choice for both them and me.

it's all about attitude really. and people respond to *me* from the vibes i give out in a particular way. they will respond to *you* for the vibes that *you* give out.

and even then they still may not play with either of us 'cos we're both newer and slower than them.

[SilkofDrasnia]

uh huh.

we started at around about the same time. i don't seem to have the same issues as you though. what is more i *know* i came from behind as this was my first MMO and i never played twitch type games (and am appalling at FPSes).

i do not see the vet arrogance that you see. i do see players who know this game backwards and don't want to play with me 'cos i'm new and slow - and that is a perfectly fine choice for both them and me.

it's all about attitude really. and people respond to *me* from the vibes i give out in a particular way. they will respond to *you* for the vibes that *you* give out.

and even then they still may not play with either of us 'cos we're both newer and slower than them.

thats great i dont see this arrogance in game so much as in the forums tho so maybe i wasnt clear on that, i never had any probs with peeps in game

i tend to duo solo with my wife , i visit these forums to seek knowledge that older players have aquired, read angels post just before urs n thats exactly what i mean, im just not as eloquent as she is !

i have to say melicat only here since oct 2009 n already 500+ post i daresay u spend alot of time commenting in these forums uh huh

[MeliCat]

It might surprise you to know but I do undrestand and respect what you are saying. Here is the problem, you can't get advice across with a board up side the head. This is a lesson that took me 15 years to learn. There is nothing wronge with giving advice when asked, or when you see someone doing something that might end up with a ban or the like.

Unfortunatley it has turned into a constant barrage of "noobs are stupid, and if they would just do exactly what I tell them everything would work perfectly. Runs would never fail, everyone would always get what they need out of chest the lag would go away." It grates on people's nerves, and puts people off who would have normaly asked for help.

Before someone says it, I also know that running with ignorant people grates as well, there is however a cure. Two in fact; one if someone is no fun to run with, then don't run with them (this goes for noobs and vets alike) and two, time, with time the current crop of new players will get better at the game. You sucked when you started, and they suck now. This is just a fact.

Most new players want to learn and get better at the game. When vet players isolate them or constantly berate them, then they are going to find others of a like mindset to play with. This narrows the knowledge base for them to learn from, thus they take longer to get better at the game. This in turn makes them more irritating to vet players and the whole thing gets worse.

There is a middle path. It's even easy to do. Help those who ask, and squelch those who bother you. This game is ment to be fun. If you are not playing to have fun they maybe you should look into something else for entertainment.

I disagree with this statement "When vet players isolate them or constantly berate them, then they are going to find others of a like mindset to play with"

1) If someone is disrespectful and horrible and basically not fun to play with - don't play with them. Vet or new person. It makes no difference. Horrible is horrible.
2) Vets do not isolate people. People isolate themselves in being rude or demanding or stupid. If you ask most vets politetly and respond to what they say (and say sorry when you don't understand, forget and get confused as I end up having to do a lot) vets are happy to help.
3) You are known by your friends. If you choose to only hang around with people who are bad players, don't know much, are not nice people then that says to everyone that is what you value. If you genuinely do want to learn and have fun people will sense that in how you behave and you will happily be taken on by vets.

I had to try for months before I got to a level and showed a persistance and determination to the point where I was regulararly allowed to tag along behind various vets. And a lot of it was my attitude. If they said go do this to you AP or get this particular piece of gear I went and did it and showed them. If they said play this way then I did it. I didn't always understand at the time (I do now... SO much information). But basically I had fun when I did it and didn't allow their occasional frustration with me being so slow to get to me (and I gave them space) so that I could continue to learn.

Throughout it all, if you're not having fun why do it?

No one can make *you* feel a particular way. They can be unpleasant - but how you respond is *your* response.

And that is life here or anywhere really.

[Angel_Barchild]

I had to try for months before I got to a level and showed a persistance and determination to the point where I was regulararly allowed to tag along behind various vets. And a lot of it was my attitude. If they said go do this to you AP or get this particular piece of gear I went and did it and showed them. If they said play this way then I did it. I didn't always understand at the time (I do now... SO much information). But basically I had fun when I did it and didn't allow their occasional frustration with me being so slow to get to me (and I gave them space) so that I could continue to learn.

I agree with your point about attitude, nothing wrong with only wanting to play with people whom you enjoy the game. However this is just mind blowing to me. Advice is one thing, even requiring certain types of equipment for epic runs, but demanding that you make changes with no knowledge of why, and then prove to them that you have made said changes, ummm... I think I'll just take my gimp character over here and have some fun with people a little less demanding. If this is fun for you then you don't need my permission to enjoy yourself, but this is exactly what a good majority of people do not want.

[MeliCat]

I agree with your point about attitude, nothing wrong with only wanting to play with people whom you enjoy the game. However this is just mind blowing to me. Advice is one thing, even requiring certain types of equipment for epic runs, but demanding that you make changes with no knowledge of why, and then prove to them that you have made said changes, ummm... I think I'll just take my gimp character over here and have some fun with people a little less demanding. If this is fun for you then you don't need my permission to enjoy yourself, but this is exactly what a good majority of people do not want.

Fair enough. Each to their own.

They didn't "demmand" anything of me though. Why would a vet "demmand" anything? They don't care - they can play their own game with no reference to me.

What I did was take their advice and then showed them I had. When you show someone who knows stuff (and you know they know more than you and they know that they know more than you) that you have acted on their advice and it has been to *your* advantage, they are more likely to want to help you again in the future.

And there were only some things I didn't understand and just took on board. Like I still don't really understand AC - there is SOOOO much nonsense talked about AC around here. So for certain characters they would say "don't worry about AC - worry about hp and here is how to go and get more hp" - that was for my barbarian. He gives nice big smacks now and can tank in TOD. His AC is 32 and that's ok for a barb. But other things yes, they would be patient (and still are) trying to explain stuff and I could ask questions. But sometimes, as in real life, you just do things 'cos you're told (and shown) they work and the understanding comes later (eg do you *really* know how integration works in math? As in *really* understand why integrals work? :P )

Yep a majority of people may indeed want no advice. That's up to them. They may wish to figure stuff out for themselves. And yep they can play by themselves and maybe ask questions later if they want.

Each to their own.

[Angel_Barchild]

Yep a majority of people may indeed want no advice. That's up to them. They may wish to figure stuff out for themselves. And yep they can play by themselves and maybe ask questions later if they want.

Each to their own.

I don't think it's that they don't want any advice. It's the middle road again. I think most new players want some advice, and want to learn some things on there own.

Lots of things in this game are fun to discover without someone telling you exactly what to do. I remember when I was high enough level to go to Giant Hold I asked a slightly higher level friend of mine to run around with me. We spent the whole afternoon just faffing about so I could see all the new stuff. It wouldn't have been as much fun if he had said "go here, here , and here, kill this, now go back." On the other hand I like when someone with quest knowledge gives advice on what may be the best strategy on how to complete it. The middle path seems to work best for most folks.

[Folonius]

Not quite:
There is a law against using fertilizers on your lawn because it destroys the environment for everyone else.

I try to cause global warming. It still hasn't worked.

[Angel_Barchild]

I try to cause global warming. It still hasn't worked.

Global warming was caused by the stupid amounts of hair spray used to keep our hair huge in the 80's and 90's. You're too late.

[Folonius]

...people that just say 'Hi Welcome' are flagging themselves for us.

They are flagging themselves as people who really have no capacity for original thought. That joke isn't funny anymore kiddo!

QFT ... I'd +1 but I gave out to many -1's

[anemephistus]

About three days ago I was in the market place. There was a new player there asking where house P was at. He/She belonged to a new (not Epitaph) guild . The entire chat lit up and began to make fun of this person.

I learned a lot from other players, I learned where many things are and, whatever else I needed to know that my many years of D&D paper and dice did not cover. All I had to do was ask.

I sent him/her a tell and extended a party invite so that I could voice chat and explain the use of the map, where to find the wiki, and how to navigate Stormreach. The other player did not have a mic. I became aware of something while talking to this person, I am pretty sure English was not his first language.

Picture this: A person who is lost asks a room full of mostly grown people how to get somewhere, and everyone points at them and makes fun of them for not knowing how to find it themselves. The world cannot function this way.

I said “Be better than this to each other” in my op. I meant it, the conflicts that are occurring are
mostly unknown to the new players. They just assume that we are jerks, and only jerks will stay past their “newb” phase if we continue to treat people like this. If a person is ignorant of what to do and we harass them for it, they will leave. As for those that stay, they will be uncaring and unreceptive to anything anyone says, because if they weren't they would have left already so they could find a game where people were nicer. The attitude we have will propagate itself.

I have a pretty thick skin, I have been asked if I ever wrote for Ren and Stimpy and I love good humor. But really, can we afford a thousand or more idiots that we helped make comfortable, running about saying ( $hut up u st00pid N00bie !!!11!1one ) ?

I am not telling anyone to “shut up” I am asking them to act in a manner that can be respected.

[learst]

Lots of things in this game are fun to discover without someone telling you exactly what to do. I remember when I was high enough level to go to Giant Hold I asked a slightly higher level friend of mine to run around with me. We spent the whole afternoon just faffing about so I could see all the new stuff. It wouldn't have been as much fun if he had said "go here, here , and here, kill this, now go back." On the other hand I like when someone with quest knowledge gives advice on what may be the best strategy on how to complete it. The middle path seems to work best for most folks.

+1 if I could (you must spread more reputation around).

There is a middle road for exploring things yourself and getting guidance. But unfortunately I tend to end up in groups that are more interested in run/hack/loot/complete quest. I find it such a pity that the devs try to come up with interesting storylines/dialogues that just get mostly ignored with someone clicking "Ok/continue" repeatedly. Nowadays I tend to level up a bit higher than a normal quest and solo it or put up an LFM that says "normal/slow run".

[TWDiggs1980]

About three days ago I was in the market place. There was a new player there asking where house P was at. He/She belonged to a new (not Epitaph) guild . The entire chat lit up and began to make fun of this person.

I learned a lot from other players, I learned where many things are and, whatever else I needed to know that my many years of D&D paper and dice did not cover. All I had to do was ask.

I sent him/her a tell and extended a party invite so that I could voice chat and explain the use of the map, where to find the wiki, and how to navigate Stormreach. The other player did not have a mic. I became aware of something while talking to this person, I am pretty sure English was not his first language.

Picture this: A person who is lost asks a room full of mostly grown people how to get somewhere, and everyone points at them and makes fun of them for not knowing how to find it themselves. The world cannot function this way.

I said “Be better than this to each other” in my op. I meant it, the conflicts that are occurring are
mostly unknown to the new players. They just assume that we are jerks, and only jerks will stay past their “newb” phase if we continue to treat people like this. If a person is ignorant of what to do and we harass them for it, they will leave. As for those that stay, they will be uncaring and unreceptive to anything anyone says, because if they weren't they would have left already so they could find a game where people were nicer. The attitude we have will propagate itself.

I have a pretty thick skin, I have been asked if I ever wrote for Ren and Stimpy and I love good humor. But really, can we afford a thousand or more idiots that we helped make comfortable, running about saying ( $hut up u st00pid N00bie !!!11!1one ) ?

I am not telling anyone to “shut up” I am asking them to act in a manner that can be respected.

The answer to your question is no. When asked a legit question on the Advice channel I respond with a legit answer and if I see anyone harassing the person about being a noob or what not I rip them a new one; as most of them are probably noobs themselves and just feel like harassing someone. I may not know everything but I am willing to teach what I do know to those willing to learn.

[MeliCat]

About three days ago I was in the market place. There was a new player there asking where house P was at. He/She belonged to a new (not Epitaph) guild . The entire chat lit up and began to make fun of this person.

I learned a lot from other players, I learned where many things are and, whatever else I needed to know that my many years of D&D paper and dice did not cover. All I had to do was ask.

I sent him/her a tell and extended a party invite so that I could voice chat and explain the use of the map, where to find the wiki, and how to navigate Stormreach. The other player did not have a mic. I became aware of something while talking to this person, I am pretty sure English was not his first language.

Picture this: A person who is lost asks a room full of mostly grown people how to get somewhere, and everyone points at them and makes fun of them for not knowing how to find it themselves. The world cannot function this way.

I said “Be better than this to each other” in my op. I meant it, the conflicts that are occurring are
mostly unknown to the new players. They just assume that we are jerks, and only jerks will stay past their “newb” phase if we continue to treat people like this. If a person is ignorant of what to do and we harass them for it, they will leave. As for those that stay, they will be uncaring and unreceptive to anything anyone says, because if they weren't they would have left already so they could find a game where people were nicer. The attitude we have will propagate itself.

I have a pretty thick skin, I have been asked if I ever wrote for Ren and Stimpy and I love good humor. But really, can we afford a thousand or more idiots that we helped make comfortable, running about saying ( $hut up u st00pid N00bie !!!11!1one ) ?

I am not telling anyone to “shut up” I am asking them to act in a manner that can be respected.

You bring up another *very* good point - if English is not a person's first language it is not fair and not nice to not make the very simple effort to use straight forward words and terms without abbreviations, use their full name and to type a request or answer.

Sometimes when I'm doing Shroud for example I might suspect this is the case - it's not hard to type their full name and the request or information so that they can fully contribute.

Just because someone's first language is not English does not mean that they are stupid or not a good player.

It really reflects poorly on players who are not considerate of those for whom English is not a first language.

I'm sorry to hear this happened to that person. I would definitely have called those idioits who were horrible out on it.

[Dark_Helmet]

About three days ago I was in the market place. There was a new player there asking where house P was at. He/She belonged to a new (not Epitaph) guild . The entire chat lit up and began to make fun of this person.

I sent him/her a tell and extended a party invite so that I could voice chat and explain the use of the map, where to find the wiki, and how to navigate Stormreach. The other player did not have a mic. I became aware of something while talking to this person, I am pretty sure English was not his first language.

Next time, take a look at the those who replied with smart a$$ remarks and see what guild they are in.
I find most of the "snobby" vets have advice turned off, so you will notice it is people who are not in a guild or in a guild you wouldn't want to join. They are people who grief in any game they play and it isn't because they are new or old.

Just jot down their name and the guild name for later. If you happen across the leader of that guild, you might want to ask them if that person is still in their guild. They would not belong to a solid guild for long.


PS - that is good of you to help out the new players.

[Adarro]

Global warming was caused by the stupid amounts of hair spray used to keep our hair huge in the 80's and 90's. You're too late.

88 cents for a 40 gallon drum of Aqua-Net. What did they expect to happen?