U5 combat feedback THF exclusively

[Cetus]

I'd like to create a supplementary thread to eladrins proposed combat feedback exclusively discussing THF styles.

As I'm trying to digest the previous thread, there are simply too many posts going in all different directions to try to create a clear idea of what exactly the outcome will be for THF, particularly fighters who have 10% alacrity and fighter haste boosts.

I am already NOT happy seeing that "Attacks with two handed weapons while moving no longer perform Glancing Blows."

Why the nerf thus far? And please explicitly explain the mechanism behind fighter haste boost and alacrity either by someone who understood it thoroughly or by eladrin himself. I'm quite concerned.

[Newtons_Apple]

Ibtl.

[Shade]

/Signed.

Tolero has been closing all other threads lik this but given how much flak I got for trying to discuss the THF issues on that thread I believe this deserves it own one.. Since it's really not being discussed in the main thread.

Too hard to hear anything about it with all the TWF fans shouting so loudly. They end up bringing up off-topc things about my play style simply because I was the one to bring it up.. Sad really.

The idea of the changes were mainly fix DPS lag, and it's been acknoledges that THF isn't causing it. So why the nerf?

[Cetus]

This needs to be discussed because the very mechanism of combat is being altered. I am getting quite frustrated at what I was reading, fighters haven't gotten love since PrE were released, and now the very essence of the attack speed capstone/boost that made them more powerful is in question.

[Ethias]

This does appear to be a direct, intentional nerf to twitching or whatever.

Perhaps it is done in preparation for the last part of Eladrin's post relating to Glacing Blows & THF being adjusted to be like the proposed TWF line.

[Cetus]

From my understanding thus far, You have a 100% chance to land 11 instead of 10 hits with the capstone.

Now with the change implemented, its a 10% chance to proc an additional hit aka "doubletrike" every hit, or in an attack sequence?

That still is effectively <100% chance of laying an 11th hit in a 10 hit sequence.

If you are hasted boosted, then in a 20 second interval you have an additional 30% chance to land a doublestrike effect?

[lolwatboomer]

This does appear to be a direct, intentional nerf to twitching or whatever.

Perhaps it is done in preparation for the last part of Eladrin's post relating to Glacing Blows & THF being adjusted to be like the proposed TWF line.

it's not just a nerf to twitching, it's a nerf to thf in general

you are forced to stand and attack regardless of the situation, even if you want to kite/juke - unless of course you feel like taking a huge dps hit

proposed changes nerf twf by 20%, and thf by 15% (numbers by monkey_archer)

[xTethx]

The devs just want to hit everyone with the nerf bat. They might as well nerf firewall and blade barrier as well.

As far as for fighter, your haste boost is unchanged, you're gonna attack 10% slower, and 10% of all your regular attacks proc another attack.

[abrownbear9108]

it seems i havent read the U5 stuff thouroughly, this is the first i have heard of them nerfing THF........and i'm not happy........

when i cant get normal hits on stuff, my glancing blows usually do some damage (15-20+ atm i believe) but removing GB's when moving is just not cool.........i play fighter often and this is just not helping me now, expecially seeing as they have apparently ruled out GB's from DPS lag causes

[Cetus]

TWF is going to operate more like THF in terms of the physics detection mechnaism upon a hit that eladrin stated in his OP.

Would it be possible to implement doublestrike as a TWF feature exclusively? and keep the THF line unchanged, that way the physics detection mechanism will be synonymous with the way THF operate, thus lag reduction is achieved as if you had a bunch of THF'ers in the party.

[Consumer]

The easiest way to tell if someone knows how to play a THF toon is to watch them twitch imo. With this aspect of THF worthless its gonna make a lot of awful players look a lot better unfortunately.

Auto attacking is gonna make a noticeable change in DPS and seems to be an attempt to even the epic SoS with TWF Greensteels.

Playing my Barbs is going to be whole lot less fun and playing a nerfed TWF is going to be worse.

[lolwatboomer]

The easiest way to tell if someone knows how to play a THF toon is to watch them twitch imo. With this aspect of THF worthless its gonna make a lot of awful players look a lot better unfortunately.

totally agreed

not so much on the "awful players look better" though ... i wouldn't go as far as to say "you can't twitch so you're garbage!"

[Targoth1]

/Signed.

Tolero has been closing all other threads lik this but given how much flak I got for trying to discuss the THF issues on that thread I believe this deserves it own one.. Since it's really not being discussed in the main thread.

Too hard to hear anything about it with all the TWF fans shouting so loudly. They end up bringing up off-topc things about my play style simply because I was the one to bring it up.. Sad really.

The idea of the changes were mainly fix DPS lag, and it's been acknoledges that THF isn't causing it. So why the nerf?

Given your comments about people that had a defensive play style, I have no sympathy for you now that it is your play style that is threatened.

[MarcusCole]

Hey Cetussssss.....


FU

[HumanJHawkins]

Ugh. I've never played THF because it has always been inferior DPS for the most important DPS cases. But I am just getting tired of the same old thing, so am planning to build a THF toon soon.

I hate the thought of this nerf. I don't twitch to gain DPS. But I do constantly move to remain behind an enemy, or make sure the fewest number of opponents is flanking me, etc.

The only thing I've seen here that gives me a bit of hope is that TWF may be getting nerfed by slightly more. It's the balance that is important, more than the raw numbers. So if the game is actually getting more balanced, I guess this might be good.

Still... Ugh. The f'ing game is fun and the combat system is great. Why keep trying to ruin it?

[Shade]

This does appear to be a direct, intentional nerf to twitching or whatever.

Conjecture.

Provide some reasoning behind it. I really can't see any.

All I see is people that don't understand the game blaming everything on somethign they don't udnerstand every single time the combat system is changed.

You all said the same thing when attack speeds were changed - that twitch won't be good anymore. You were wrong. Your wrong again.

Before this change, Twitch/attacking while moving will increase dps.
After this change, Twitch/attacking while moving will increase dps.

Yea indirectly, twitch will lose some DPS. But so will any THF combat in general. So that's not a direct nerf at all.

This just nerfs all THF incredibly by removing all aoe damage while moving (a major feature of the GTHF)

With this removed, there would hardly be any reason to take GTHF.. Thus Barbarians will gain more ground over fighters as they're feat selection for DPS won't be so limited, while fighters have less useful feats to select from.

If anything, this is a indirect nerf to the fighter class. Not twitching.

[Shade]

Given your comments about people that had a defensive play style, I have no sympathy for you now that it is your play style that is threatened.

Whatever comments I made were not made as excuses for upcoming nerfs.

And I don't need your sympathy, because as I've explained, my play style is NOT at threat here. The ones prposing the threats are people that have no idea what this nerf will mean.

[Dark_Helmet]

I'd like to create a supplementary thread to eladrins proposed combat feedback exclusively discussing THF styles.

I am already NOT happy seeing that "Attacks with two handed weapons while moving no longer perform Glancing Blows."

Why the nerf thus far? And please explicitly explain the mechanism behind fighter haste boost and alacrity either by someone who understood it thoroughly or by eladrin himself. I'm quite concerned.

IMO - Glancing blows shouldn't have been in the system in the first place. I think it also creates an unnecessary load by having to calculate what is nearby that should take damage. A two handed weapon should just do massive damage when it hits, just less often (except the cleave which power players seem to hate).

[Tolero]

I understand the targeted THF topic, so I'm going to move this to the combat forum to make it easier to track. Note that in some cases there are going to continue to be thread mergers/moves (I'll try to avoid actual "mergers" when possible), as this helps the appropriate team members follow the discussions.

[Cetus]

I understand the targeted THF topic, so I'm going to move this to the combat forum to make it easier to track. Note that in some cases there are going to continue to be thread mergers/moves (I'll try to avoid actual "mergers" when possible), as this helps the appropriate team members follow the discussions.

Thank you tolero