Trap the Soul

[drachine]

is anyone using Trap the Soul in the new content? i heard it was not working properly. anyone had any luck with it?

also the khyber shards you can buy from the arcane shop, are those spell components for trap the soul?

[Draclaud]

No, not sure and yes.

[Shade]

Excellent spells, works great in new content.
Energy drain + Trap the soul = 95% chance of instant death for basicly any mob in new content, included devils with deathward.

The same cannot be said for finger of death, not even vs orthons without deathward.

Major drawback - ultra expensive and have to self craft components.. argh.

Shop components = tiny shards.. Not feasible for spell use as they only work for 10hd - like lvl1-5 quests only.

So gota craft still, 100 tiny = 20 small = 8 average. Average is the good one.

However.. They are ULTRA expensive. Most sorcs will not be able to afford this. (expect to pay 400K platinum per quest in component if you cast allot)

[drachine]

hmm. anyone found any solutions to the cost of the spell components for the spell?

[Barumar]

hmm. anyone found any solutions to the cost of the spell components for the spell?

Save them all, and have a mule hold them! Also, ask the groups you run with to give them to you if they don't save them - I get a lot that way.

The Mod 9 release notes did mention the drop rate would be greatly increased on them, but so far I have not seen the change. This might be a good idea for it's own thread (if one does not already exist - I will need to check) if others feel the same...

I started collecting the yellow (feat respec - wont go there here!) and black rocks when they first came out, and have friends/guildies mail them to my main mule (Kenzee on Khyber - sorry had to ) who stores and compresses them.

The black ones are actually needed (in very small quantities compared to Trap the Soul) to bind and attune an item, before you can perform another ritual on them - like +1 AC, +1 resists, etc.

However, I had enough stored up to make 100+ of the ingredients for Trap the Soul and agree with others that it is AWESOME! Now remember, it and FoD are now two shot spells - as in Energy Drain (and yes I currently have my only lvl 9 spell slot taken by it at lvl 18) then TtS or FoD.

I have not done extensive comparison between FoD and TtS, but will take Shade's comment to heart - especially as I know his CHA modifier is higher than mine (never pulled that +3 tome yet ) and I believe he has the second Necromancy Feat and I do not.

Also, I believe the save is different between the two (Will vs Fort if I recall) so trying each on different mobs might be a good idea as well.

Oh yeah, it can be used on lower level mobs (Earth Ele's from the Depths chain if I recall) to create ingredient needed for hardening a weapon - I will need to try that.

Eventually (hopefully sooner than "soon" ) I understand the Soul Gems you get from using it will be used for other crafting purposes. Being the collectable ***** that I am, I now carry a Soul Bag and keep all the ones I make killing mobs with the spell!

Barumar

[tinyelvis]

Excellent spells, works great in new content.
Energy drain + Trap the soul = 95% chance of instant death for basicly any mob in new content, included devils with deathward.

The same cannot be said for finger of death, not even vs orthons without deathward.

Major drawback - ultra expensive and have to self craft components.. argh.

Shop components = tiny shards.. Not feasible for spell use as they only work for 10hd - like lvl1-5 quests only.

So gota craft still, 100 tiny = 20 small = 8 average. Average is the good one.

However.. They are ULTRA expensive. Most sorcs will not be able to afford this. (expect to pay 400K platinum per quest in component if you cast allot)

Just curious. Why go to this trouble if you have to energy drain first? Just energy drain and flesh to stone, or energy drain and hold monster. However, if you double necro focus, I bet you can succeed without the need for energy drain.

[SimVerg]

Just curious. Why go to this trouble if you have to energy drain first? Just energy drain and flesh to stone, or energy drain and hold monster. However, if you double necro focus, I bet you can succeed without the need for energy drain.

I bet that necro focus has no impact on the Trap DC.

[MrCow]

Just curious. Why go to this trouble if you have to energy drain first? Just energy drain and flesh to stone, or energy drain and hold monster. However, if you double necro focus, I bet you can succeed without the need for energy drain.

The standard fare critters in Shavarath has saves in the 15-30 range (including the environmental effect), averaging around 25 for fortitude. Most of the arcanes out there likely have a spell DC of 30-35, so they will still fail quite a few necromancy based death effects unless they open with energy drain (2d4 negative levels equates to bestowing a 4-16 penalty in saves).

I bet that necro focus has no impact on the Trap DC.

Trap the Soul is a Conjuration effect. With my double conjuration focus sorcerer, I am quite enjoying the uses of Web and Trap the Soul in Shavarath (as the reflex and will saves are typically several points lower than fortitude).

[tinyelvis]

Yes conjuration, not necro. I also agree that conjuration focus is a good way to go. Its good there is a high level aggressive conjuration spell and using the will save is also good.

I am noticing more arcane casters realizing how to better spec their characters and performing very well in the new content. I have gone on quests recently with 2 - 3 well spec'd casters in a party of six and just steam rolled the quest. After equipping a couple pieces of named loot, I am one spell cast killing Orthons, Devils, and most other trash mobs at least once every five casts. I dont see the need for more than one or two melee in a party (mostly to beat down portals), This makes things easier on any healers present too. Mod 9 is amazing for casters.

[Shade]

Just curious. Why go to this trouble if you have to energy drain first? Just energy drain and flesh to stone, or energy drain and hold monster. However, if you double necro focus, I bet you can succeed without the need for energy drain.

Because I can.. Gives me something to do between quests.

My necro DC is pretty decent - DC40 currently... But even with that, finger of death fails a hell of a lot more then trap the soul. The new quests mobs have ultra fort saves. Even an energy drain + FoD is never as sucessful as a trap the soul. I'd guess the mobs often have as much as +10 more fort then will.

Also many mobs are immune to hold monsters and FoD. Flesh2stone can work, but i don't have transmutation focus so it often takes 2+ energy drains - a high cost to elimnate 1 mob.

Overall I find the best strategy is to get allot of mobs together and wail ofthe banshee, at DC40 it works well. Even on elite in new quests I'll get 1 out of 4, so in big groups it often pays off.

But for single target, energy drain + Trap the soul, is very good and rreliable. Just expensive and time consuming.

Due to that it's barely worth a spell slot for most people.. But I got around 10+ ppl who send me shards regularly so I keep it loaded for fun.

[ryingar]

Just curious. Why go to this trouble if you have to energy drain first? Just energy drain and flesh to stone, or energy drain and hold monster. However, if you double necro focus, I bet you can succeed without the need for energy drain.

Trap the Soul is not classed as a death effect so it bypasses and affects those that are immune to death effects like undead, constructs, and deathward. It also has a fairly high save DC. It also procs fairly often on GS weapons.

Also the earth soul gems are used in crafting.
Tier I works on many mobs. just 10 HD and under. there are more of those than you think.
Tier II works on a fair number of mobs in the refuge and the vale. HD 20 and below.
Tier III is the best without question.

Before using the spell research or just know the relative HD of the type of mob you are casting on as well as the wis DC for that mob. Good rule of thumb is that most mobs will be +/- 2 HD of thier CR, with the most noteable exception of elementals which are about 2xCR= HD. These estimations are very rough shod but should help out in deciding what level of the spell you'd like to use.

Hope that answers some of your questions.

[ddoer]

how well Trap the Soul is against Air Elementals in New Invasion? and how about the Air Eles in elite boss room?

[ryingar]

how well Trap the Soul is against Air Elementals in New Invasion? and how about the Air Eles in elite boss room?

I have not used it against them at this point in time.
However, it depends on their saves and if they have spell resistance, and of course how well you can over come these issues. I know this doesnt answer your question but I have to try it first to find out for sure how they are.

But in my experience if you get past the SR they rarely make their save, on anything. just make sure you have the right gems for the critter. I use them on the clrs in running with the devils if they put on DW and start spam healing themselves.

If I remember correctly the HD of eles typically have twice their CR rating as a rule of thumb.

[maddmatt70]

Trap the soul weapons actually work on epic. Ran a couple of weeks ago with somebody in epic chain of flames that had one and the person killed maybe 5 or so mobs that way. It would be interesting to see how a full group of twf melee each equipped with 2 of these weapons would do.

[irivan]

Yes Trap the soul is excellent, especially in the Shavarath content, if you can pump your DC to 36 or higher, it will work with astonishing success rates comparatively. If you can get your DC to around 40 or higher, you will litter the floor with so many crystals you wont even pick them up any more.

Devils seem to be vulnerable to anything with a will save attached it.

Also you can cycle it with PK and FOD to dispatch mobs with lightning quick efficiency.

There is some work in maintaining the shards.

Tiny - 10 hd or less
small - 20 hd or less
medium - 30 hd or less

The Mediums take effort to build up, but the way i go about it is, i farm the dream series on elite, and the treasure pay is huge, and then i just buy enough Tiny crystals to maintain my mediums.

One thing that i think needs to be fixed about the spell. If something is energy drained, it should effectively lower their HD, and make them vulnerable to lower tiers of TOS.

[ddjunks]

Is there a shard after the Average Khyber? Average Khyber is only up to 30 HD

[irivan]

Is there a shard after the Average Khyber? Average Khyber is only up to 30 HD

30 HD is it, unfortunately, so the only way to TOS something is with a shroud weapon with it, since there is no stated hit dice limitation in the spell description.

I hope eventually they will open Larges, and more....

I think they are afraid of Epic monsters getting TOS'ed