Group quality down the toilet or just plain bad luck?

[Aspenor]

Clearly, you don't level characters up from 1 to 12 on Argonessen.

That, or you avoid the LFM at all costs.

just leveled a character from 1 to 12, and have had no problems. used the LFM for almost every group.

[ddoer]

additionally... if you outkilled the entire group(combined) by 5 times, you may want to form a new group. That, or don't even wait for other members, just go solo.

good point. bring a hiring cleric, it saves a lot of pots.

[Uproar]

on Argonessen, We Call That "normal".

If You Actually Do Get A Solid Group, Hope With All Your Might That It Doesn't Disband After 1 Quest.

A Good Group Staying Together For More Than One Quest Is Nigh Paradoxical These Days, And Just Might Cause A Quantum Singularity To Swallow All Of Reality As We Know It...



Just Remember:
1) If You Have To Solo The Quest With 5 Soulstones In Your Pack, That's Normal.
2) If You Have Spent Your Main's Entire Store Of Plat On Potions So You Can Solo Quests With 5 Stones In Your Pack, That's Normal.(600+ Pots/day Seems About Right For Levels 5-8)
3) If You Have Not Had Either 1 Or 2 Happen Within The Last 2 Weeks, Something Is Wrong With Reality As We Know It And You Might Actually Be Playing With Talented People.
--additionally... If You Outkilled The Entire Group(combined) By 5 Times, You May Want To Form A New Group. That, Or Don't Even Wait For Other Members, Just Go Solo.

Qfe

[Uproar]

Right..... and we can send men to the moon easily too. Just those things you mentioned take serious time, a good deal of resources and long term commitment to having the right build/rocketship and the dedicated training and skill to avoid a wipe.

I am not sure why you are rolling your eyes. If you doubt this statement then I doubt you've played many other MMOs to any depth. It's true enough to not doubt it. Yes, what you said is true -- it does take resources and a great deal of luck that the idiots in the team don't manage to mess up completion or pull a train, but it is still true nonetheless for the majority of the time.

[DeepThroat]

LOL you really haven't been in many groups have you. I mean you should figure out what he said your first day playing.

In a group the health bars are:

You
them
them
them
them
them

Whos at the top? YOU

No ****...

[Zenako]

I am not sure why you are rolling your eyes. If you doubt this statement then I doubt you've played many other MMOs to any depth. It's true enough to not doubt it. Yes, what you said is true -- it does take resources and a great deal of luck that the idiots in the team don't manage to mess up completion or pull a train, but it is still true nonetheless for the majority of the time.

Ok guys, my response was to the inference that because someone was able to solo the shroud, that meant the game was too easy. I saw the threads and SS of the effort and have no doubt it was done. I also am aware of the fairly intense amount of practice and resources it took to pull it off. That only certain builds could do it, etc.

Just like sending people to the moon has been done, but it is neither easy nor commonplace.

[Dark_Helmet]

Right..... and we can send men to the moon easily too. Just those things you mentioned take serious time, a good deal of resources and long term commitment to having the right build/rocketship and the dedicated training and skill to avoid a wipe.

Well, with F2P, it will be the same: Throw money at it and you can overcome any sort of skill shortcomings...

I already had a taste of the F2P crowd and I see the quality players in the minority. But, I guess some would say the same when DDO first came out so I will reserve judgement for another month or two after the F2P is up and running.... Sometime in 2010.

[Lithic]

just leveled a character from 1 to 12, and have had no problems. used the LFM for almost every group.

Putting up an LFM that says "we're full, only guildmates apply" doesnt count asp

[Aspenor]

Putting up an LFM that says "we're full, only guildmates apply" doesnt count asp

screenshot!

[Roricon]

I regret to join many pugs...

OMFGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG F ME

[Ralmeth]

Though I'm not on Argonnessen, I just had to comment as I noticed this thread...in general good groups are good groups because of good leadership of the leader (aka the one with the star). Bad groups are generally bad because the leader is a bad leader. If you don't believe me, pay attention to that the next few PUGS that you're in.

[GlassCannon]

Though I'm not on Argonnessen, I just had to comment as I noticed this thread...in general good groups are good groups because of good leadership of the leader (aka the one with the star). Bad groups are generally bad because the leader is a bad leader. If you don't believe me, pay attention to that the next few PUGS that you're in.

Another instance is a good leader with people who refuse to read chat.

I don't use a mic. I am also typically too busy saving the blaster or healer(if a miracle happens and one is available) from certain death, or in many cases the tank with too few HP... to type combat tactical movement requests/commands. I expect people to be able to think for themselves and they often disappoint me.

As for the leader who is new to a dungeon, all I need do is prod them with information every now and then and they take care of things while I go run support(Co6 altar breaking) or solo a difficult area.

[Spisey]

Another instance would be Darkstrike adding additional challenge rating to shroud runs with sleet storm and grease!

[IgorUnchained]

I PUG low level Argo almost nightly. I hope to get into the higher end content when Mod 9 drops, but for now I dont have the time to spend an hour and a half on one quest. So, for the time being, I have a constant "perma-noob" slot that doesnt go above level 4 and get wiped out weekly (kind of like Permadeath, but without other people's rules).

The problem I see is that there are A FEW new people who are learning the game while there are MANY old timers on their millionth run through WW. The new cant keep up, the old wont slow down, and those with a conscience are usually left to smash the boxes, lead the way, and explain certain things to people.

It isnt too hard to specify "new player...slow run" or "cynical powergamer....zerg underway" in the LFM. It isnt that hard to wait a few minutes for the rest of the party and, just because you CAN solo the quest, doesnt mean that you should.

Lastly, it isnt just noobs anymore. I cant tell you how many people I have run with recently who are guilded (guilds will remain nameless, but not shameless) and who are wielding glowing non-Korthos weapons....but who dont have a wand or a single pot. Mini-Max templates and uber-friends do more to hurt the game than noobs do.

[FluffyCalico]

Though I'm not on Argonnessen, I just had to comment as I noticed this thread...in general good groups are good groups because of good leadership of the leader (aka the one with the star). Bad groups are generally bad because the leader is a bad leader. If you don't believe me, pay attention to that the next few PUGS that you're in.

Well most groups I am in I ask is this anyones first time? If the answer is no usually not much else needs to be said. A few exceptions would be raids or in monestary asking "ok who wants to be bait while I do the puzzle?" Or in prey saying "if you don't know the maze, follow someone who does" Hound picking a toy and a stone person... Shroud picking who takes first watch etc. There truely isn't much to be said if everyone knows what they are doing.

I mean seriously, unless someone is brand new most quest can be taken care of by 1-2 questions or statements and run perfectly smooth. When you need leadership is when there is someone brand new.

[Nestorious]

I have to agree with the ppl sho say its been a mixed experience. Since returning and leveling a new toon I have come across good and bad groups. More good than bad though. If ya come across someone who obviously has no clue as to what they are doin simply log thier name and dont pug with em, simple as that.
In regards to stating the groups you are looking for in the LFM, clear and concise is good. Only prob I have is like a group I joined last night for a VOD run and the LFM said something like " VOD, I might be picky"... seems I have seen that popping up more and more.
The real kicker to it was I sent a tell to the star and got a reply back saying, "I will consider it". What a D*ck.... I kindly told him to bugger off and then he invited me to the group. Low and behold I knew it was gonna go bad whe the star started asking if anyone knew the run! (no chit)
These are the ones that I write down, rude, crude and just plain lost but thinkin they run the world. What happened to the ppl who could enoy the game without it going to thier ego - especially when they dont have an idea to what they are doin

[78mackson]

If ya come across someone who obviously has no clue as to what they are doin simply log thier name and dont pug with em, simple as that.

This is a part of the mentoring programme

I would agree to this if the person is stopid enough not to follow simple directions(eg. how to find the quest, or not use the hypnotic pattern spell since it causes IRL-headache)

[parvo]

Wait until F2P :S

In mod nine, it will be easy to tell who the idiots are. Anyone grouped for "leveling". Most will solo to the cap. It will be faster and easier.

[ddoer]

from my recent experience, the quality of pug in low level is really bad. there are much more bad pug than good pug. there are so many new players. above level 10-12, the groups are better.

previously, when i'm level'g my dps non-AC ranger, bad pug is not a big deal. When non-tank melees to rush in a crowd and then suxk the clr's mana, i'm happy to chop the mobs one by one at the side, and then pick some stones to the rest shrine. if a caster likes to do burning hand instead of doing CC, and be chased by a large number of mobs, i'm happy to help him by chopping the mobs *one by one*, and then pick his stone.

now, i'm level'g a healing clr. There is no way i can complete the quest without the others. The only thing I could do is to give some advice (and sometimes requests or instructions). If they don't follow, I could escape from my healing duty. If it really doesn't work, then drop group. Still, it takes a much longer time to complete quests on average.

i somehow will avoid joining pug for my clr, unless the group has 4-5 ppl already and the combination of classes and level seem to be ok. By posting lfm by myself, this at least avoid the case that a bad leader doesn't know how to pick members.

remark: the cases i've mentioned above are just some extreme cases for illustrating my points and i mentioned them partly for fun.

[Alizar]

from my recent experience, the quality of pug in low level is really bad. there are much more bad pug than good pug. there are so many new players. above level 10-12, the groups are better.

previously, when i'm level'g my dps non-AC ranger, bad pug is not a big deal. When non-tank melees to rush in a crowd and then suxk the clr's mana, i'm happy to chop the mobs one by one at the side, and then pick some stones to the rest shrine. if a caster likes to do burning hand instead of doing CC, and be chased by a large number of mobs, i'm happy to help him by chopping the mobs *one by one*, and then pick his stone.

now, i'm level'g a healing clr. There is no way i can complete the quest without the others. The only thing I could do is to give some advice (and sometimes requests or instructions). If they don't follow, I could escape from my healing duty. If it really doesn't work, then drop group. Still, it takes a much longer time to complete quests on average.

i somehow will avoid joining pug for my clr, unless the group has 4-5 ppl already and the combination of classes and level seem to be ok. By posting lfm by myself, this at least avoid the case that a bad leader doesn't know how to pick members.

remark: the cases i've mentioned above are just some extreme cases for illustrating my points and i mentioned them partly for fun.

Yeah leveling a support class can be a real pain in the a$$. I rarely join pugs but put up my own lfm's regardless of what class I play. Even if an lfm is up for the same quest I am running...I still put up my lfm as I have joined way too many crawling pugs in the past.