The QA Lodge

[Turial]

Your SR rolls aren't in the combat log?

I could've sworn I got them. Am I imagining that?

Yep. All you get is the blue force shield blip.

[MrCow]

Oh, and SR rolls.

Spells you cast upon another monster show Spell Penetration rolls. (Off hand, I don't remember if these are in the combat log, but they do show up as a dice roll)

Spells you are hit by from a monster does not show a Spell Resistance Roll, but it will display "Spell Resistance: Success" upon working.

[Angelus_dead]

If you want to block, go buy a shield (or at least get an off-hand weapon so you're sticking something steel up the dragon's nose).

I'll take that opportunity to repeat a 1-line suggestion:
Merge the Two-Weapon Blocking feat into Two-Weapon Defense. Switching from TWF->Shield to block is so easy and more effective that spending a feat to block better with TWF isn't close to worth it.

[Borror0]

Off hand, I don't remember if these are in the combat log, but they do show up as a dice roll

Oh, I know they show up as a dice roll, but as far as my memory goes, they do not show up in the combat log.

I'll be sure of it in a few minutes. Logging on my sorcerer right now.

[Borror0]

I was wrong, it shows up.

Oh, I know they show up as a dice roll, but as far as my memory goes, they do not show up in the combat log.

I'll be sure of it in a few minutes. Logging on my sorcerer right now.

[DeadlyGazebo]

When you do that, could you consider a way to filter the feedback we get per window?

Liek this, I could have a widnow for how often I get it, another for saves, etc. It'd be nice also to consider adding dices for spells like Ray of Enfleebement. Right now, we have no idea of how much we have debuffed the mob for. Oh, and SR rolls. Oh, and better feedback for saves we do. Sometimes they are missing.

Hmmm.... Yeah, we could give you something to sort the messages to different tabs of your chat window. Dice for lots of things are suppressed to keep the die in the corner of your window from going totally nuts (this is why you don't see glancing-blow-attack-rolls; you're making three or four rolls at once...). We generally go with not showing dice in the chat log if we don't show them over there. Similarly, we don't want the chat log scrolling by too fast, so we've tried to keep it less spammy; if I add a bunch more messages to it, I'm probably going to have them default off, so that those of you who want to see it have to actively decide to see more.

Huh, I thought you always saw your own saving throw rolls. Are there certain spells/effects/situations that you aren't seeing them, or is it more random?

[Ustice]

Exporting chat to a file would be nice too... or... Just give us an API, and we (DDO players that are also code-monkeys) can do some of the work...

[Borror0]

Hmmm.... Yeah, we could give you something to sort the messages to different tabs of your chat window.

I would love that. I always told myself I'd like a window reserved to see how often I'm getting it. Making different windows for each type of dice rolls would be handy to check yourself how good you're fairing in that area. For example, against a fire elemental, you could check how often you're failing your saves.

Are there certain spells/effects/situations that you aren't seeing them, or is it more random?

It's certain situations. Notice that some of these might be more from player effects, as I do a lot of testing in PvP.

I remember, for example, having trouble with Sirroco's Telekinetic save. But that's one amongst most things. I know I have seen a few situation where a save should have been displayed and there was not. Didn't have time to fill in a bug report, and then forgot... but it happenned a few times. But most likely, most of these were likely to happen in PvP, like I said.

[ArkoHighStar]

Exporting chat to a file would be nice too... or... Just give us an API, and we (DDO players that are also code-monkeys) can do some of the work...

or a logging option where you have a file size and a rolling log with max 10 logs

[Angelus_dead]

4) Combat Expertise, Defensive Fighting, and the rest were deliberately made exclusive back in pre-alpha. Unfortunately, no one seems to remember what the reasoning was. Fortunately, no one seems to remember what the reasoning was.

I suggest that part of the reasoning was UI optimization to make common actions faster. If a character has both Power Attack and Combat Expertise, he's normally in one mode or the other. Only rarely does he intentionally turn them both off, and turning them both on at once would almost never be the right idea (because you couldn't hit anything). Therefore, causing PA to automatically deactivate CE falls under "optimize for the common case".

Essentially, by restricting the possible actions allowed by the software, it took less effort for the user to perform the most common tasks.

[Gratch]

I suggest that part of the reasoning was UI optimization to make common actions faster. If a character has both Power Attack and Combat Expertise, he's normally in one mode or the other. Only rarely does he intentionally turn them both off, and turning them both on at once would almost never be the right idea (because you couldn't hit anything). Therefore, causing PA to automatically deactivate CE falls under "optimize for the common case".

Essentially, by restricting the possible actions allowed by the software, it took less effort for the user to perform the most common tasks.

UI aside... I could see it as a viable state for many melee in shroud part 1. You're wacking a super low construct with as much damage as you can... but you're also trying to ignore being hit by orthon/devil cleaves.

Warforged Barbos can take -11 to hit for fully enhanced PA... but they have strength to compensate... or destruction/sunder... or they're doing favor runs... so taking a -10 to hit (for PA and CE enabled) isn't an unheard of negative... though you might want to accompany the change with slider amounts for these abilities.

Ed: Were we supposed to make a new thread on this? I thought a dev had answered similar threads by saying the stances were exclusive of each other... didn't know PnP allowed them all enabled at once.

[Gratch]

BTW... the most recent "bug" I saw was running the reaver... I got a disconnect (interwebs between me and Turbine went down as my teamspeak was still running fine) just as the reaver puzzle-part was starting. [Traceroute went about 15 of the 20 hops to ddo.com] I got back in 5 minutes later to find that the quest was over (I did get completion) and the group had opened the 3 chests but not the raid chest (I was fine with this - glad they waited on the main chest). I walked up to the raid chest and got a few party chats that they were almost done waiting - I was moving toward the chest... and heard the lid pop open... but there was no loot for me. [BTW, yes I did make sure my target was hitting Warded-Chest and not accidently clicking one of the opened ones. I did look in all 4 and tried the raid chest a few minutes later in case there was a sync issue.]

Is this a timing bug... or a preventative where you don't get raid loot if you aren't in the quest during completion?

All the recent code locking people out of looting feels kind of like a slap in the face and causes more group angst then I've seen from any other change. I mostly know why it went in... just complicates a lot of DC'ing situations. I understand it for people "changing" toons... I don't understand it for the same toon that dc's. Is that too tough to differentiate?

[winsom]

Spiders give IMMUNE message when my wizard tries to Web them. The render-fiends in The Subterrane gives off a burst of bluish sparks, and seem immune to Web. That does not seem a consistant feedback system to me.

Only now, at level 16, am I figuring this out. IMMUNE feedback is much easier to understand. Regardless, I think this info should be available to players in-game somewhere. I shouldn't be clueless about it at level 16.

Thanks Borror0 for the Blocking DR info. Your formulas seem right. Just checked:

My bab 10 character lists blocking DR 3 when unarmed or wielding a single weapon. Increases to DR 5 when a second weapon is wielded.

I also figured out that if a wand is in hand, and weapon or nothing in the other hand, then the blocking DR lowers by 1.

[sephiroth1084]

we are talking a totally different blue effect here. the SR failure looks like you hit a blue concave shield (think star trek spaceship shields). the sparkly he is talking about looks like welding sparks being thrown off for a second.

I think a good example of the above is when trying to use certain spells on the Madstoned guys in Madstone Crater. They don't have SR, they aren't making saves, and they don't put up IMMUNE text, yet many spells do not work on them, and the only explanation are the vague blue sparkles.

[sephiroth1084]

Was the removal of spell duration and spell save DCs intentional?

I find it fairly irritating to have to memorize the duration for all of the non- 1min/level spells so I can remember in which order to lay down CC, or to time roughly when a spell is going to expire, or when deciding whether I want to extend the spell or not. If I only used 2 or 3 spells, that'd be a minor issue, but, as a wizard, I tend to utilize around half of the spells available at each level at one time or another.

The save DC issue isn't as big a deal, but it's nice to know, and was also a good reminder for times when i swapped out my +Int item and for a clicky and forgot to put it back on--with the DCs present, I'd sometimes notice that something was too low, and would go swap. Now, it takes monsters saving against my spells a half dozen or a dozen times before I notice (most often happens when I get DC'ed at a bad moment, and don't think to check all of my equipment when next I log in).

[sephiroth1084]

[Sorry to put up multiple posts, but I keep thinking of these after the fact]

The final boss in Foundation of Discord tends to disappear when the floor beneath him collapses or shortly thereafter (in one run, he stuck around long enough to kill me and another party member with Finger of Death before bugging).

I've personally submitted a bug report on this 3 times, and know of other people who have as well, yet it not only has not been fixed, but I don't see it in the Known Issues Thread either. And this has been going on for at least 6 months (when i first got to GH).

Branching off of this, I would like to formally request that shrines should be reset by GMs when they are brought in to fix a bug. It seems like every time I run a quest on hard or elite and there is a bug that requires a GM's assistance, we wait for 20-45 min. by which point all of our buffs are expired, and (in many cases) the casters and clerics had expended most of their SP before the party realized that something was amiss. Then the GM comes in, and respawns a boss, or opens a door, and sends us on our merry way, sans-buffs and sans-spellpoints. Is reactivating a shrine THAT difficult or seen as being an exploit in some way?

[AxeM]

Speaking of varying feedback on monsters I've been trying to land Crushing Despair on our lovely friend the Pit Fiend for quite some time with my bard.

One of the following 3 things happens:
I get a failure to penetrate spell failure message.
I get a spell penetration success message and I see a save message pop up above his head
or I get a spell penetration success message and no further feedback at all.
(There might be blue sparkles there although it's hard to tell, I'll keep an eye out for those next time.)

I have seen the Crushing Despair effect listed on him once, although it was from a wizard. No more experimenting on that front yet as not many wizards carry it.

[Dark_Helmet]

And this is deliberately pretty lame -- a dragon tries to bite you and you decide to... stick your arm in the way? Yeah, I suppose it's less bad than having him eat your head, but you aren't really helping a whole lot. If you want to block, go buy a shield (or at least get an off-hand weapon so you're sticking something steel up the dragon's nose).

Actually, it works quite well to use an open hand for defense (it is quite nimble when your fist is not clenched around something). If an animal opens wide, you can actually punch it in a way to close its jaw or misdirect its attack (use its weight against it) to set it up for your offensive hand. Think of a bullfighter (not the modern style with that silly cape) where they misdirect the attack of the animal with the free hand so they can sink the blade into the back. You can also use the force of the animal to move you where you want with that free hand (think of rodeo clowns who catch air just for the crowds).

As for one-handed defense, might want to watch people who fence. The same weapon is nimbly transfered from defense to offense with a flick of the wrist.

I would prefer a free hand with a gauntlet to a big, clumsy shield... unless I was in a hail of arrows!

[moorewr]

Actually, it works quite well to use an open hand for defense (it is quite nimble when your fist is not clenched around something). If an animal opens wide, you can actually punch it in a way to close its jaw or misdirect its attack (use its weight against it) to set it up for your offensive hand. Think of a bullfighter (not the modern style with that silly cape) where they misdirect the attack of the animal with the free hand so they can sink the blade into the back. You can also use the force of the animal to move you where you want with that free hand (think of rodeo clowns who catch air just for the crowds).

As for one-handed defense, might want to watch people who fence. The same weapon is nimbly transfered from defense to offense with a flick of the wrist.

I would prefer a free hand with a gauntlet to a big, clumsy shield... unless I was in a hail of arrows!

Have you done any SCA fighting? For all it's faults it best demonstrates how much raw force is exerted on a muscle-power battlefield. A fencer would be annihilated before he/she had a chance to demonstrate their finesse by spear or shield-block/overrun. Given just the presence of armored men crashing around me I'd want full body protection, a great helm, and a good sized shield just to make sure I don't crack ribs when I lose my balance - having an overweight armored man fall on you is no fun even if you are protecting your vitals.

[Bronko]

I know there have been lots of posts about ranged combat being buggy, but I did want to mention the exceptionally hard time I've been having with thrown weapons.

For starters, I recently submitted a bug report in regards to the IC: Throwing Weapons feat not properly applying. After some further experimentation I think it might only be happening some of the time instead of all the time as I originally reported. There does seem to be a static bug where the unexpanded threat range does not show up when I tool-tip over the appropriately equipped weapon.

Next, I know that there have already been several posts about 'missing' or 'phantom' attacks in regards to bow weapons. This phenomenon is also happening with ranged attacks from thrown weapons. Occasionally the attacks will 'pile up' and I will see several hit messages all at the same time. Other times when I attack I will see the animation, up to and including the projectile hitting the target, but there will not be a hit or miss message in the combat log and no die roll. This can even occur when I am attacking an inanimate object such as a breakable (even if it is targeted in the focus orb).

Finally, there is an animation bug where I can throw ANYTHING that I happen to have equipped in my main hand if I am quickly switching between gear. The switch can be because I am changing to/from a throwing/melee weapon (I've thrown a Sunblade, Transmuting Longsword of Pure Good, and a few other melee weps I carry for the occasional close-in battle) or if I am 'switching' to a potion (I have thrown CSW pots, Lesser Restore pots, and all sorts of curatives while trying to drink them and spam the attack button). I have questioned party members about how hilarious it looks to see a gigantic +2 Holy Greatsword go hurtling towards some mob but they all say they aren't seeing the effect. This appears to only be an animation bug because I'm not seeing actual attacks from these items show up in my combat log. How cool would that be though: throwing a Vorpal Greataxe through the air ala Conan the Barbarian movies.

I will continue to post other bugs as they show up with my nifty little halfling thrower and bring any of the really strange ones back to QA for adjudication for their severity.