Big F'n Stick Build

[The_Phenx]

*** This thread is a discussion place for all things stick ***
Try and keep it on topic, anything acrobat/quarterstaff related.

Obviously the game evolves and so does this thread. Since it is 70+ pages long and started years ago some of the earlier pages are outdated by this point but still contain a lot of useful info and debate. Check the links below first, I will try and keep them current, so people looking to try the build get the most useful info right up front.

** News**

***IMPORTANT NEWS HERE*** This is in regards to anyone planning on crafting a store bough DR breaking staff. http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=3813590&postcount=1746

Cleave and Great Cleave no longer break the attack chain, making them a significant DPS boosts.

Bluff now grants 6 seconds of full sneak attack every 15 seconds. Which is AMAZING. Please consider taking bluff vs diplo or both when planning out your builds.
______________________________________


FAQ http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=2978657&postcount=899

Named Staffs List http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=3577349&postcount=1470

A Roadmap to Useful Posts http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=3590888&postcount=1491

Links to other Acrobat Builds http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=3598416&postcount=1549

Big F'n Stick
17/3 Halfling Monk Acrobat


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.34
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Preying Mantis
Level 20 Lawful Good Halfling Male
(3 Monk \ 17 Rogue)
Hit Points: 253
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 14\14\19\24
Fortitude: 14
Reflex: 20
Will: 13

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 15 23
Dexterity 15 22
Constitution 13 16
Intelligence 14 16
Wisdom 11 14
Charisma 8 10

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 20
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 20
+3 Tome of Constitution used at level 20

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 6 23
Bluff -1 4
Concentration 2 20
Diplomacy 3 24
Disable Device 6 27
Haggle 3 24
Heal 0 3
Hide 2 9
Intimidate -1 1
Jump 4 17
Listen 0 5
Move Silently 2 9
Open Lock 6 30
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 2 4
Search 6 27
Spot 4 26
Swim 2 7
Tumble 6 32
Use Magic Device 3 27

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I
Enhancement: Rogue Balance I
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I


Level 2 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Rogue Tumble I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I


Level 3 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning I
Enhancement: Halfling Guile I


Level 4 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortiose I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom I


Level 5 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity I
Enhancement: Halfling Luck (Will) I
Enhancement: Halfling Luck (Will) II


Level 6 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Use Magic Device
Enhancement: Rogue Balance II
Enhancement: Rogue Tumble II


Level 7 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II


Level 8 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Thief-Acrobat I


Level 9 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II


Level 10 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost III


Level 11 (Rogue)


Level 12 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Opportunist
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity III


Level 13 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost IV


Level 14 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Halfling Guile II
Enhancement: Rogue Thief-Acrobat II


Level 15 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Combat Expertise
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Harmonious Balance: Fists of Light
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II


Level 16 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III


Level 17 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV


Level 18 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Halfling Guile III


Level 19 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Crippling Strike
Enhancement: Halfling Luck (Fortitude) I
Enhancement: Rogue Item Defense I
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing II


Level 20 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Halfling Luck (Fortitude) II
Enhancement: Monk Concentration I
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense II



Ugly Stick
13/6/1 Half Orc Rogue/Monk/Fighter Acrobat II Ninja Spy I


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.0
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)


Ugly Stick
Level 20 Lawful Good Half-Orc Male
(1 Fighter \ 6 Monk \ 13 Rogue)
Hit Points: 300
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 14\14\19\24
Fortitude: 14
Reflex: 18
Will: 11

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 16 25
Dexterity 15 20
Constitution 15 17
Intelligence 12 14
Wisdom 12 14
Charisma 6 8

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 20

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 6 18
Bluff -2 -1
Concentration 4 28
Diplomacy 2 4
Disable Device 5 25
Haggle 2 9
Heal 1 2
Hide 2 5
Intimidate -2 -1
Jump 3 14
Listen 1 2
Move Silently 2 5
Open Lock 6 28
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 1 2
Search 5 25
Spot 5 25
Swim 3 7
Tumble n/a n/a
Use Magic Device 2 22

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Diplomacy (+4)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Haggle (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Improved Tumble I
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I


Level 2 (Monk)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Orcish Melee Damage I
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I
Enhancement: Improved Balance I


Level 3 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+0.5)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Bludgeoning Weapons
Enhancement: Orcish Extra Action Boost I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I


Level 4 (Monk)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack I
Enhancement: Orcish Strength I
Enhancement: Orcish Great Weapon Aptitude I


Level 5 (Monk)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Inevitable Dominion: Fists of Darkness
Enhancement: Orcish Fury I
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise I


Level 6 (Monk)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Quick Draw
Enhancement: Static Charge
Enhancement: Improved Jump I
Enhancement: Improved Jump II
Enhancement: Improved Tumble II


Level 7 (Monk)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Enhancement: Orcish Extra Action Boost II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II


Level 8 (Monk)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Dodge
Enhancement: Monk Ninja Spy I


Level 9 (Fighter)
Skill: Concentration (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Handed Fighting
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise II
Enhancement: Improved Balance II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I


Level 10 (Rogue)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Enhancement: Orcish Great Weapon Aptitude II
Enhancement: Adept of Wind


Level 11 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+3)
Skill: Open Lock (+3)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost II


Level 12 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+3)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 13 (Rogue)
Skill: Concentration (+0.5)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+3)
Skill: Spot (+3)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Rogue Thief-Acrobat I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II


Level 14 (Rogue)
Skill: Concentration (+0.5)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost III


Level 15 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Orcish Melee Damage II
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack II


Level 16 (Rogue)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II


Level 17 (Rogue)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Opportunist
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost IV


Level 18 (Rogue)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Combat Expertise


Level 19 (Rogue)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Rogue Thief-Acrobat II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity III


Level 20 (Rogue)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion
Enhancement: Orcish Strength II
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I







Bigger F'n Stick
TR 20 Rogue Acrobat


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.5.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Preying Mantis
Level 20 Lawful Good Halfling Male
(20 Rogue)
Hit Points: 262
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 12
Reflex: 19
Will: 9

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(34 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 16 23
Dexterity 16 23
Constitution 15 18
Intelligence 12 14
Wisdom 8 10
Charisma 8 11

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 1
+4 Tome of Dexterity used at level 1
+3 Tome of Constitution used at level 1
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 1
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 1
+3 Tome of Charisma used at level 1

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 9 20
Bluff 4 25
Concentration 4 6
Diplomacy 0 25
Disable Device 6 27
Haggle 4 25
Heal 0 2
Hide 6 34
Intimidate 0 2
Jump 4 14
Listen 0 4
Move Silently 6 33
Open Lock 9 31
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 2 4
Search 6 27
Spot 4 25
Swim 4 8
Tumble 7 28
Use Magic Device 4 25

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Diplomacy (+4)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Haggle (+4)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Rogue
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I
Enhancement: Rogue Balance I
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I


Level 2 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Rogue Tumble I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I


Level 3 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning I
Enhancement: Halfling Guile I


Level 4 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+2)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Tumble II


Level 5 (Rogue)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+2)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Rogue Balance II


Level 6 (Rogue)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Enhancement: Rogue Thief-Acrobat I


Level 7 (Rogue)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+2)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II


Level 8 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost III
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II


Level 9 (Rogue)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+2)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Halfling Guile II


Level 10 (Rogue)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity III


Level 11 (Rogue)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost IV


Level 12 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+2)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons
Enhancement: Rogue Thief-Acrobat II


Level 13 (Rogue)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+2)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Opportunist
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning III
Enhancement: Halfling Guile III


Level 14 (Rogue)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+2)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III


Level 15 (Rogue)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+2)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV


Level 16 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+2)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Crippling Strike
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning IV


Level 17 (Rogue)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+2)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Halfling Guile IV


Level 18 (Rogue)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+2)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Past Life: Sneak of Shadows
Enhancement: Rogue Extra Action Boost I
Enhancement: Halfling Luck (Will) I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I


Level 19 (Rogue)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+2)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Skill Mastery
Enhancement: Halfling Luck (Will) II
Enhancement: Rogue Item Defense I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II


Level 20 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+2)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Rogue Deadly Shadow
Enhancement: Halfling Luck (Fortitude) I
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I





__________________________________________________ _________________________________


Leveling Tips

---Power Attack---
Turn it on whenever you first log in, it turns off at log out for some reason.

---Potions/Wands---
You need to get shield of faith +3 and barkskin +3 potions... thats going to give you an extra +6 to your ac, which at low levels is VERY important.

***SHIELD WANDS*** They have an ML:5 shield wand you should start UMD'ing as soon as you can... a 5 minute +4 to ac and immunity to Magic Missile.

You can also drink Heroism Potions to get your to hit up higher so you wont miss while chasing things around.
You should have 25 blindness ward + remove curse + Poison Immunity Potions, there are just WAY too many times you will need them, and you can spare the clerics mana, switch to wands at higher levels.

---Outfits---
Wear what you want for levels 1-3 but your outfit should be moderate fortification robes/outfit @ lvl4 until level 8 then go to heavy fortification
until you can get a hold of the Minos Legens from the Orchard. Keeps away those one shot crits from some of the boss mobs.
At that point you should start working to acquire Icy Raiments from Skeleton Boss loot runs from the Subterranea.
After that the next best option is Vestments from the Steal of Souls quest arc.

---House Phiarlan---
Get your house p favor as soon as you can...those 30 min buffs gives a +4 to each stat... unless you have them on your guilds airship. The time pendant is also great for moving around quick in town.

[Samadhi]

Want to break down how you are getting that AC AND that many HP? If it works - rock.

[rawfocat]

Can you get weighted on a staff?

[The_Phenx]

Can you get weighted on a staff?

Yes you can.. Need to source that one still...But i have a LOT of really good staffs already.

[The_Phenx]

Want to break down how you are getting that AC AND that many HP? If it works - rock.


Ill give it my best shot... mind you I figured it out late last night, but it worked then

10 Base
10 Dex
6 Wis
7 armor bracers (hoping for 8)
3 chattering ring
3 seal of the earth (or bark pot)
5 protection
1 Ac ritual
1 Air Stance
1 Halfling

Thats 47 unbuffed...with moderately easy gear to get 48 with harder.

4 more for icy raiments and hes at 51 (remove prot 5 item)

+4 shield click or wand for 55

Click off a full barkskin... bard buffs... uncanny dodge and you get the idea. (could even do a shroud +4 ac weap but prolly wont)

As for hit points
30 for GFL
18 for Minos
45 for shroud item
18 more for toughness feat
10 Gianthold favor
with a 22 con...

Puts him at what 348? I think Check my math please..it was all on paper at my desk at home.

The saves I havent worked out yet but monk + halfy and he should be high 20's low 30's on all.

And BAB +11 which gets me the 4 animations so 2 of which will do glancing blows (will use a dp clickie occasionally to go full BAB & get the 5th swing Im shure)

[Shyver]

Here is a similiar build I put together for a friend about a month ago or so. I can't say how it's going since I didn't build one, but he and his wife are both playing the build and seem to really enjoy it. The damage I've seen them put out is rather impressive. :eek:

Final build when the cap is 20 will be: Rogue 13/Monk 6/Fighter 1

Name: Ronker
Race: Halfling (32 pt)
Alignment: Lawful Good
Class: Rogue 12/ Monk 3/ Fighter 1

Strength: 16 +2 (favor) tome +0 Enhnacement +6 Item +4 Levels = 28
Dexterity: 13 +1 tome +4 enhancements + 6 Item +0 Levels = 24
Constitution: 13 +1 tome +0 enhancements +6 Item +0 Levels = 20
Intelligence: 12 +1 tome +0 enhancements +0 item +0 levels = 13
Wisdom: 12 +0 tome +0 enhancements +6 item +0 levels = 18
Charisma: 8 +0 tomes+ 0 enhancements + 6 item +0 levels = 14

Level

1) Rogue ~~~ Least Dragonmark of Healing
2) Monk ~~~~ Power Attack (Monk Feat)
3) Rogue ~~~~ Two-handed Fighting
4) Rogue
5) Rogue
6) Rogue ~~~ Lesser Dragonmark of Healing
7) Rogue
8) Monk ~~~ Combat Expertise (Monk Feat)
9) Rogue ~~~ Improved Two-handed Fighting
10) Fighter ~~~Improved Critical: Bludgeoning
11) Rogue
12) Rogue ~~~Greater Dragonmark of Healing
13) Rogue
14) Rogue
15) Rogue ~~~Greater Two-handed Fighting
16) Monk ~~~ Path of Harmonius Balance (Monk Feat)

Hit Points

Rogue lvls: ~~~72
Monk lvls: ~~~24
Fighter lvl:~~~~~10
Heroic Durability: 20
Constitution:~~~80
Argo favor:~~~~10
Greater False Life:30
Minos Legion: ~~ 18
Total:~~~~~~~ 264

Saves

Fortitude: 4 Rogue + 2 Fighter + 3 monk + 3 item + 5 con +1 halfling= 18
Reflex: 8 Rogue + 0 Fighter + 3 monk + 3 item +7 dex +1 halfling= 22
Willpower: 4 Rogue + 0 Fighter + 3 monk + 3 item + 4 wis +1 halfling= 15

Skills

Spot
Search
Disable Device
Open Lock
Jump
Use Magical Device
Haggle

Armor Class

Base: 10
Dexterity: 7
Wisdom: 4
Armor: 6
Barkskin: 3
Alchemic: 1
Total: 31

Icy Rainments: 4
Chattering Ring: 3
Armor baracers +8: 2
Shroud Weapon: 4
Total: 44

Shield Wand/Clicky: 4
Combat Expertise: 5
Total: 53


Enhancements

Rogue Balance 1
Rogue Balance 2

Rogue Tumble 1
Rogue Tumble 2

Rogue Faster Sneaking 1

Rogue Haste Boost 1
Rogue Haste Boost 2

Rogue Skill Boost 1
Rogue Skill Boost 2
Rogue Skill Boost 3
Rogue Skill Boost 4

Rogue Sneak Attack Training 1
Rogue Sneak Attack Training 2
Rogue Sneak Attack Training 3
Rogue Sneak Attack Training 4

Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy 1
Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy 2

Rogue Dexterity 1
Rogue Dexterity 2
Rogue Dexterity 3

Rogue Way of the Thief-Acrobat 1
Rogue Way of the Thief-Acrobat 2

Halfling Extra Dragonmark Use 1
Halfling Extra Dragonmark Use 2
Halfling Extra Dragonmark Use 3

Halfling Dexterity 1

Halfling Cunning 1

Halfling Guile 1

Monk Disciple of Breezes 1

[The_Phenx]

Kinda similar :) lol Except for twf vs quarterstaff n cleave..

Ill update as I go since Its kinda a unique Idea.

[Sue_Dark]

Total curiosity with no intent to hijack.

Why are people so hung up on the icy rainment? From what I see in this thread and the little I've seen so far, it's a PITA to get and not as good for a monk/monk-hybrid/dex based character as the Vision outfit, which is probably easier to get than the Chattering ring (due to the horrid drop rates on Titan). If you're willing to farm the titan that much, I'd think you'd be willing to farm VoD as well for the better outfit, unless I'm just missing something. (you being a generic pronoun, not *YOU*, OP)

[The_Phenx]

The vod armor is
Enlightened Vestments - Outfit, Armor Bonus +6, Banishing Fists, Wisdom +6

Ghosts of perdition is
Icy Raiment - Robe, Dodge Bonus +4, Protection +4, Resistance +3 (Item Binds on Acquire)

So the reason?
#1 you clean up a LOT of slots...
#2 +4 dodge bonus... is WAAAYYY better... you can wear armor anythign bracers and it works with them.
#3 banishing fists are MEh
#4 Wisdom is just an existential item away

And chattering rings are easy.. run titan 20 times... and pray

/hijack off

[Sue_Dark]

Ahh yes, I had forgotten about the dodge bonus... was thinking it was an Armor bonus.

Thanks



So the reason?
#1 you clean up a LOT of slots...
#2 +4 dodge bonus... is WAAAYYY better... you can wear armor anythign bracers and it works with them.
#3 banishing fists are MEh
#4 Wisdom is just an existential item away

And chattering rings are easy.. run titan 20 times... and pray

1- somewhat agree
2- agree
3- agree
4- if you have the time/inclination to run shroud a bazillion times. (It bores me, honestly)

Chatter.... 20-pray, 20-pray, and so on and so on.... never seen one drop, ever. I am just unlucky tho... had 4 of those darned SS's and 2 docents on my HALFLING ranger :D very useful......


/hijack off
Edit - addition


edit - spelling error

[Dark-Star]

Not sure if armor bracers and Chaos Guards will both fit on such small arms, -2 ac.

In my version of this build, 3 monk 13 rogue seems to be the sweet spot for class breaks.

Can't tell if you are implying stance haste stacking, but from what they have told us, the stacking portion will be 3.5% for tier one stance.

Only hesitation for me for this build is giving up some of a rogue's main strength, radiance2 rapier and crippling strike, and being able to off hand a weakening/wounding of enfeebling/puncturing. Also you'll give up some ac as well as sneak attack damage relative to a dex based twf-er.

Lastly enhancements will be very tight.

Could be fun though for the novelty of seeing a q-staff rotate at light speed.

[The_Phenx]

Not sure if armor bracers and Chaos Guards will both fit on such small arms, -2 ac.

Lol I know... theres a few debates on what gear goes where... More than likely itll be armor bracers all the way... till white dragon robe... + chaos garde, then swapped for Icy Raiments



In my version of this build, 3 monk 13 rogue seems to be the sweet spot for class breaks.

Elaborate?


Can't tell if you are implying stance haste stacking, but from what they have told us, the stacking portion will be 3.5% for tier one stance.


Correct... 20% stacking from Acrobat II 10% (non hasted) monk Air (3.5% hasted, or go fire stance for -1 ac +1th +1 dmg) All accounted for.



Only hesitation for me for this build is giving up some of a rogue's main strength, radiance2 rapier and crippling strike, and being able to off hand a weakening/wounding of enfeebling/puncturing. Also you'll give up some ac as well as sneak attack damage relative to a dex based twf-er.


Yes He will loose the offhand toys... but the sneak attack damage will still be quite high 7d6 rouge + SA training + guile + 3-8 (backstabber gloves or vod goggles)

Stat damage will still be very fast due to the speed of the attacks.

Could still make a radiance II quarterstaff... and I have been debating this, although 3x earth earthgrab staff when cleaved could do some really neat things as well.

Since he will have a relatively high strength he will still be able to go after red names effectively, or so I hope. This will work well with the +10 from power attack to offset some of the other areas.



Lastly enhancements will be very tight.


Aye..VERY...we will see how it all works out there... the ammount of some of them will prolly have to change around.



Could be fun though for the novelty of seeing a q-staff rotate at light speed.

Thats pretty much the idea... coolest animation in the game.

[The_Phenx]

Even more fun...jorgundals collar...

Then It would only be a 8.5% speed increase with haste... lol

I will no longer NEEEED the green goodness

[The_Phenx]

Ahh yes, I had forgotten about the dodge bonus... was thinking it was an Armor bonus.

Thanks



1- somewhat agree
2- agree
3- agree
4- if you have the time/inclination to run shroud a bazillion times. (It bores me, honestly)

Chatter.... 20-pray, 20-pray, and so on and so on.... never seen one drop, ever. I am just unlucky tho... had 4 of those darned SS's and 2 docents on my HALFLING ranger :D very useful......


/hijack off
Edit - addition


edit - spelling error

lol my main pulled a chattering 3rd run. :)

I already have enough ingredients socked away for 3 3rd tier shroud items

ANNNNDDDD..... halflings are the master race.

[The_Phenx]

In my version of this build, 3 monk 13 rogue seems to be the sweet spot for class breaks.


Oh and im also operating on the basis that Acrobat III will be at 18th level rouge... :rolleyes:

[Lewcipher]

Ahh yes, I had forgotten about the dodge bonus... was thinking it was an Armor bonus.

Thanks



1- somewhat agree
2- agree
3- agree
4- if you have the time/inclination to run shroud a bazillion times. (It bores me, honestly)

Chatter.... 20-pray, 20-pray, and so on and so on.... never seen one drop, ever. I am just unlucky tho... had 4 of those darned SS's and 2 docents on my HALFLING ranger :D very useful......


/hijack off
Edit - addition


edit - spelling error

Shyv has some very interesting build ideas. I used one, and didn't mess it up too bad. Still looking for icy rainments though. As of now: 56 self AC with just barksin and CE, possible for 65 (short burst, so I don't really count it). Str based TWF ranger/fighter/monk.


OP - interesting build. Hope it's fun! Let us know how it turns out!

P.S. Chattering ring dropped on 2nd titan run - I know...I'm a jerk.

[The_Phenx]

+1 ac for halfling...forgot... :) fixed post

[direwolf33]

A neat novelty build - when you tire of the quarterstaff novelty you can always respec to the more powerful piercing twf build. For this reason I would make sure your stats fulfull the minimum requirements for GTWF and CE. This is also a reason to go 14/2 or 13/2/1 with fighter splash, since the 3rd monk level would be useless after respec.

[The_Phenx]

A neat novelty build - when you tire of the quarterstaff novelty you can always respec to the more powerful piercing twf build. For this reason I would make sure your stats fulfull the minimum requirements for GTWF and CE. This is also a reason to go 14/2 or 13/2/1 with fighter splash, since the 3rd monk level would be useless after respec.

Meh I already have a seriously high dps twf kopesh fighter.
The point is to do something different.
Not be another stat damaging piercing spec'd rouge.

Sides with the speed and power attack he might actually do some decent damage, we shall see. Hes kicking tail so far.

[Silverjade]

Meh I already have a seriously high dps twf kopesh fighter.
The point is to do something different.
Not be another stat damaging piercing spec'd rouge.

Sides with the speed and power attack he might actually do some decent damage, we shall see. Hes kicking tail so far.

Despite what many say a q-staff is a decent amount of damage considering that.
No1.Its at two handed weapon so more str damage and more from power attack.
No2.It is also really fast.
No3.Crits are not half bad either with a 30strish and seeker say bloodstone or better are in the 69+ as i recall.

That and the style are really fun:).

[hurricane333]

I already rolled a toon very similar to this. I went with rogue haste IV instead of the marks... The rogue haste stacks with acrobat (q-staff) which stacks with monk air stance (q-staff) which stacks with haste ... yum. Also keep you eye out for the q-staff ( the sickle ) that drops from the titan raid ... it's a finessable 2 hander.

[Sue_Dark]

lol my main pulled a chattering 3rd run. :)

I already have enough ingredients socked away for 3 3rd tier shroud items

ANNNNDDDD..... halflings are the master race.

Definitely no arguement on the master race :)

and I am trying not to hate you for your lucky pull :)

3rd tier shroud is mainly an option... in the sense that the only reason I have only completed one item is that i dislike the shroud grind. Totally personal there, but I will agree that the gear effects can be nice. (love the litenin strike effect)

[Sue_Dark]

Shyv has some very interesting build ideas. I used one, and didn't mess it up too bad. Still looking for icy rainments though. As of now: 56 self AC with just barksin and CE, possible for 65 (short burst, so I don't really count it). Str based TWF ranger/fighter/monk.


OP - interesting build. Hope it's fun! Let us know how it turns out!

P.S. Chattering ring dropped on 2nd titan run - I know...I'm a jerk.

I am also trying not to hate you for YOUR luck :)

Really the only things I had "issue" with was the shroud item. I initially couldnt recall the stats on the icy, but TP set me straight. And as I mentioned a post or two above this one, the "issue" I have with GS is purely personal. Definitely no reason to dissuade the OP in his goals.

On a more relevant note, My 1rgr/10rog Acrobat absolutely loves his Q-Staff, unfortunately, I only have one decent one (a nice little W/E beater). Still on a quest to find others. <managed to get him a disruptor, but he cant use till 12 :( >

[Samadhi]

Ill give it my best shot... mind you I figured it out late last night, but it worked then

10 Base
10 Dex
6 Wis
7 armor bracers (hoping for 8)
3 chattering ring
3 seal of the earth (or bark pot)
5 protection
1 Ac ritual
1 Air Stance
1 Halfling

Thats 47 unbuffed...with moderately easy gear to get 48 with harder.

4 more for icy raiments and hes at 51 (remove prot 5 item)

+4 shield click or wand for 55

Click off a full barkskin... bard buffs... uncanny dodge and you get the idea. (could even do a shroud +4 ac weap but prolly wont)

As for hit points
30 for GFL
18 for Minos
45 for shroud item
18 more for toughness feat
10 Gianthold favor
with a 24 con...

Puts him at what 348? I think Check my math please..it was all on paper at my desk at home.

The saves I havent worked out yet but monk + halfy and he should be high 20's low 30's on all.

And BAB +11 which gets me the 4 animations so 2 of which will do glancing blows (will use a dp clickie occasionally to go full BAB & get the 5th swing Im shure)

So how are you getting 24 con then? It looks like you are already assuming +3 tomes for some of your stats; but without the breakdown I'm obviously somewhat guessing. Are you assuming rage? That's AC penalties if so.

Please don't take my comments hatefully. I played with Str / QStaff builds for a while - but never found one that could get AC high enough to matte - hence my searching for exactness if this build will do it.

[The_Phenx]

So how are you getting 24 con then? It looks like you are already assuming +3 tomes for some of your stats; but without the breakdown I'm obviously somewhat guessing. Are you assuming rage? That's AC penalties if so.


Aye Im basing end stats off of +2 and some +3 tomes... With their availability now it only makes sence to plan accordingly. +2's can be assumed for all stats... +3's happen but with some work.

I did not account any buffs into the figures unless stated. With all the rages his con and str go thru the roof.

The reality is as well that with the dragonmarks his hit point pool is exponential...those 5 full heals (270-440pt) alone he will be carrying will be able to top him off.



Please don't take my comments hatefully. I played with Str / QStaff builds for a while - but never found one that could get AC high enough to matte - hence my searching for exactness if this build will do it.


No hate assumed :)

I have been tinkering with quarterstaff builds for a while... this one looks very promising so far, others have died horrible deaths, and I will keep updates coming ot show the progress.

At 3rd level He solo'd waterwoks normal and used 13 potions... decent indication of potential... With Powerattack on, a bulls strength, his cleave attack 1 shots all the kobolds. Group them up.. pop a diplo... then cleave Seeing 22 + 9 + 3 to each. (non crit) With a rr Halfling +1 frost righteous quarterstaff.

[The_Phenx]

I already rolled a toon very similar to this. I went with rogue haste IV instead of the marks... The rogue haste stacks with acrobat (q-staff) which stacks with monk air stance (q-staff) which stacks with haste ... yum. Also keep you eye out for the q-staff ( the sickle ) that drops from the titan raid ... it's a finessable 2 hander.

Oh he will have all tiers of the rouges haste boost...

My only concern is if the dual sicle from the titan raid will un-center him... ??? Have you played with it yet?

[The_Phenx]

Also as a variation you could do CE... the stat points are built into it...but.. meh Id rather have the power attack.

[Samadhi]

So your starting con is 13... and ending con is 24. How?

13 +3 tome = 16 +6 item = 22 - 2 air stance (since you said you were using it) = 20...

Even though it isn't stated, it looks like you are putting your level up points into Str? And assuming a +3 tome there also?



PS you must have much better luck wthan me with +3 tomes. I just passed 400 total reavers on all my guys last week, and only one of my characters has eaten more than 1 +3 tome (my barb has eaten dex and int - whoopee).

[The_Phenx]

So your starting con is 13... and ending con is 24. How?

13 +3 tome = 16 +6 item = 22 - 2 air stance (since you said you were using it) = 20...

It is a 22 same as Ghinsuu... I mistyped it yesterday (was extrememly tired) I thought I fixed it tho, fixing OP now. Me and my buddy worked it to be 320ish HP without the additional toughness feat... so figure high 330-340 ish at 16th...with all additions possible.

Air stance use will vary according to plan... When Hasted I will switch to fire stance and get the strength bonus... Since which is more deadly is 3.5% alacrity or +1 th and +1 damage. Dunno...I suppose it will vary based on stat damaging vs dps.

Unhasted however it will certainly be air.

[direwolf33]

Meh I already have a seriously high dps twf kopesh fighter.
The point is to do something different.
Not be another stat damaging piercing spec'd rouge.

Sides with the speed and power attack he might actually do some decent damage, we shall see. Hes kicking tail so far.

I am just saying, build for the future as well. If you're going to invest all the time into levelling, raiding, crafting, then give him enough DEX to fulfill the most useful feat combination. Reachable which +3 tome which it looks like it is now is probably fine. Give him enough INT to reach CE for survivability.

Whatever DPS you contribute on top of the TWF equivalent, I don't think you can compensate for what you're losing.

What you're giving up is the combination of radianceII (on a high crit-range weapon with a weakening or enfeebling offhand) and crippling strike which is one of the most powerful offense and defensive combinations in the game. When I'm looking to fill a hound, a VOD or a Shroud LFM, a rogue with this combination is near the top of my desired list.

[The_Phenx]

Even though it isn't stated, it looks like you are putting your level up points into Str? And assuming a +3 tome there also?


Yes all 4 level ups & +3 to str... then the dex levels come from The enhancement lines I know itll be 3 - 5 points for that for a 28-30 dex...Im not shure how the enhancement shakedown will happen just yet... I could use one of the builder programs but MEH.. I know the idea and I will tweak it as I go along to make it work right. Then I will post the optimal results and anything I would have modified. More fun that way lol.

I have had good luck so far... Have 3 +3's on Ghinsuu and 2 on Pyro... Reaver is horrid for them (although for Ghins 20th he got a choice of 3), really good chance on the shroud and hound and vision tho...

So while it will not be immediate... I built the stats to compensate for them... and the reality is that that lil +1 He will be loosing while waiting for the tomes shouldn't break the build, if they do... then the build isnt very good to start... itll be a few more hit points... 1 more to hit... or a lil more ac.

[The_Phenx]

I am just saying, build for the future as well. If you're going to invest all the time into levelling, raiding, crafting, then give him enough DEX to fulfill the most useful feat combination. Reachable which +3 tome which it looks like it is now is probably fine. Give him enough INT to reach CE for survivability.

Whatever DPS you contribute on top of the TWF equivalent, I don't think you can compensate for what you're losing.

What you're giving up is the combination of radianceII (on a high crit-range weapon with a weakening or enfeebling offhand) and crippling strike which is one of the most powerful offense and defensive combinations in the game. When I'm looking to fill a hound, a VOD or a Shroud LFM, a rogue with this combination is near the top of my desired list.

Still... to my knowledge no one has done a build like this.. so its potential is undetermined. I am building for the future... I've always wanted a good quarterstaff toon.

And yes I realize Im not building a radiance rouge... Its ok, as shocking as that is Im ok with that. I do not plan on re-specing him. I had a dps kopesh/kukuri str based tempest rouge... and meh he was a squishy version of my main that didnt do as much damage and only swung marginally faster.

I will be on the hunt for a w/e quarterstaff to use a lot Id imagine.

[Thrudh]

PS you must have much better luck wthan me with +3 tomes. I just passed 400 total reavers on all my guys last week, and only one of my characters has eaten more than 1 +3 tome (my barb has eaten dex and int - whoopee).

Don't bother looking for +3 tomes from the Reaver... get them from the Shroud 20th, 40th, etc.

[The_Phenx]

Give him enough INT to reach CE for survivability.
He has enough already... with the dragonmarks it should be unnecessary.

Ghinsuu runs around in the sub with a 45 ac (unbuffed) and has absolutely no problems. If he gets low... dragonmark... and keep on fighting.

[Dark-Star]

I already rolled a toon very similar to this. I went with rogue haste IV instead of the marks... The rogue haste stacks with acrobat (q-staff) which stacks with monk air stance (q-staff) which stacks with haste ... yum. Also keep you eye out for the q-staff ( the sickle ) that drops from the titan raid ... it's a finessable 2 hander.

Stance haste does not stack with a haste spell.

[Shyver]

Stance haste does not stack with a haste spell.

As of Mod 8 the monk haste stance will give a bonus that stacks with haste also.

[Dark-Star]

Right, as I already pointed out on page one.


from what they have told us, the stacking portion will be 3.5% for tier one stance.


The poster was implying that they stack on his current build, which they do not.

[Drakyn]

Looks like another build that is truly gimp to Drakyn the almighty, hero of stormreach. But thats cool Ghin, keep trying to match me. It wont ever happen :P, ill hopefully seeya in game in a few months. peacee

[The_Phenx]

Right, as I already pointed out on page one.
The poster was implying that they stack on his current build, which they do not.

Nope but whats wrong with planning for 2 or 3 weeks from now?

[The_Phenx]

Looks like another build that is truly gimp to Drakyn the almighty, hero of stormreach. But thats cool Ghin, keep trying to match me. It wont ever happen :P, ill hopefully seeya in game in a few months. peacee

Rofl you ready to try and take down the king baby?

Ghin has had some time to polish out the dents in his armor and sharpen his swords.

[The_Phenx]

Tangleroot Normal @ level 4... no cleric... no problem. Used 13 potions thru part 6 finishing part 7 tonight.

Had 2 lvl 4 casters and two lvl 3 ranger hybrids with me... was blurred and bulls strength'd + Bears Endurance.

The only twink gear he had is now level appropriate.. so... build is still very solid.

I should hit 5th tonight and pick up the next attack + glancing blows & next level of Dragonmarks. Will update tomorrow.

[The_Phenx]

All traps no problem... all critters werent either... although it got hairy enough for the warforged to go hide in the river while I recovered from being incapped by a certain large guy with a club, who I then exacted my revenge on.

[Blazer]

I have max ranks in hiding and since I'm warforged it was no problem staying under the water. Pfft, UWA.

[Hasteclicky]

I think he will do pretty much what you want to build him for, but then again it's a cool idea to do something different. you have an abundant fondness for the haste boosts which works well for you, I always forget to use it. But remember the showtime boost consumes your haste boost charge, so they will only stack for 2 of the 5 uses.
When we originally planned this out I didn't figure on you using the dragonmarks since I would wear the madstone boots almost constantly, and they would then be no use in combat. The have saved my dwarf more than once so I'm not complaining that u have them.
Only other thing I would think about is going monk 3 for the fist of light. U generate alot of KI with your attack speed, it would be nice to put it to use....

[The_Phenx]

I have max ranks in hiding and since I'm warforged it was no problem staying under the water. Pfft, UWA.

Lol it was still fun. Wooo stabilized.. then I got to pick them all off from behind casue they were busy trying to kill you.

[The_Phenx]

Approaching 7th level. I have to say he kicks some tail.

I have run with a few Iron monks... a few tempst builds and a few barbarians... He out performs them or = in the dps department at this stage, he does a lot of per hit damage comparatively, and the speed makes a big difference. The survivability is just fine, Hp is no problem with the dragonmarks and heal pots, With a few pots his ac is a 28 at the moment, 32 w uncanny, with 0 items.. lol. Where are my waterworks bracers...

Saves are 9 18 9 with +3 vs traps and +4 to reflex w uncanny

HP are at 80 with only a +2 con necklace. (purposefully not wasting money on twinking)

Stats have climbed to 20 20 14 14 14 8

Power attack effects glancing blows... interesting discovery.

His per hit is (unbuffed) 21-26 pts + sneak + weapon effects.... so somewhere in the 25-50+ range and just getting better.

The most fun so far is cleaving a stack of mobs stuck in a firewall.

[The_Phenx]

7th is amusing lol... picked up more sneak attack damage, and more uses of dragonmarks. Ac is climbing nicely.

8th will bring acrobat I... cant wait.. :)

[RioRussell]

I built a similar style build, and had a question. can you verify for me that power attack works properly with a quarterstaff? I was turning power attack on but wasn't seeing my to-hit go down or damage values go up. bug or 'feature'?

-Riorussell

[Deathseeker]

Approaching 7th level. I have to say he kicks some tail.

I have run with a few Iron monks... a few tempst builds and a few barbarians... He out performs them or = in the dps department at this stage, he does a lot of per hit damage comparatively, and the speed makes a big difference.

Im going down this road as well, but have a question. If at this point you don't have Acrobat yet, what would make him outdo the tempest or barbarians at these early levels? At this point, isnt he a rogue with a quarterstaff? I'd think he'd be far behind a ranger TWF or Barb with THF at this point until he gets the big benefits of Acrobat and Acrobat II. Can you elaborate?

[D'rin]

He has the wind stance, which pre haste spell levels, means he is 10-15% faster than anyone else. Also figure he is going to have about 2d6 in sneak attack damage, couple that with an elemental of pure good q-stick and he will be able to one shot a lot of low level mobs on normal and 2 shot some on hard.

[The_Phenx]

I built a similar style build, and had a question. can you verify for me that power attack works properly with a quarterstaff? I was turning power attack on but wasn't seeing my to-hit go down or damage values go up. bug or 'feature'?

-Riorussell

Power attack verified. Works great.

Just remember the bonuses for it climb as you climb levels.

[The_Phenx]

Im going down this road as well, but have a question. If at this point you don't have Acrobat yet, what would make him outdo the tempest or barbarians at these early levels? At this point, isnt he a rogue with a quarterstaff? I'd think he'd be far behind a ranger TWF or Barb with THF at this point until he gets the big benefits of Acrobat and Acrobat II. Can you elaborate?

See D'rin's post which is 100% accurate.

Wind stance coupled with a +2 holy quarterstaff and power attack.. with first tiers of rouge sped boost rocks.

At lower levels was using a +1 frost quarterstaff.

Seeing nubers like... 22+12+8 on a regular hit... which when jumping into a pile of koolds and cleaving is insta death.

Its not far behind... the actual damage per hit and speed is ahead at this point.

The only problem I've found is on hard and elite level quest 2 or more levels above he has a bit of an issue hitting... so I turn off power attack.

[The_Phenx]

Rumors of Two handed fighting feas working with quarterstaffs are popping up... will be looking for verification today... they didn't used to effect them.

[D'rin]

I really like the flavor of this build. now that they are allowing TWF to affect unarmed fighting my monk will most likely ditch his q-stick for handwraps. And I have all these nice staves to play with. Guess I know what I am going to role now.

[Blazer]

I really like the flavor of this build. {...} Guess I know what I am going to role now.

Ugh, please don't tell him that. Last thing he needs is MORE of an ego with people trying to mimic his builds. :rolleyes:

[lord_of_rage]

this build looks wayyy too fun. I might have to roll one up. And see if i like it. I have been looking for a fun halfling build. I have too many barbs and twf melees so l think ill check this out.

[Deathseeker]

See D'rin's post which is 100% accurate.

Wind stance coupled with a +2 holy quarterstaff and power attack.. with first tiers of rouge sped boost rocks.

At lower levels was using a +1 frost quarterstaff.

Seeing nubers like... 22+12+8 on a regular hit... which when jumping into a pile of koolds and cleaving is insta death.

Its not far behind... the actual damage per hit and speed is ahead at this point.

The only problem I've found is on hard and elite level quest 2 or more levels above he has a bit of an issue hitting... so I turn off power attack.


Dont get me wrong, with the announcement on THF affecting Qstaffs I think this style of build will catch fire and I love it. But I'm still challenging you a little bit on the early level greatness of it...the +2 holy qstaff is a function of equipment, not the build. A barb could have an equivalent two hander. Also, at this level, don't the other THF weapons get a level of inherent glancing blows that the qstaff does not? Add this to the Barb rage and Barb BAB advantage and I'm still skeptical that this build, at early levels, is superior in DPS to an equivalently equipped (very key point) barbarian. The sneak attack should disappear the minute you hit something as you are doing enough dps to pull aggro.

But, I'm totally nitpicking just for the sake of discussion...love the concept, am looking at doing this myself once the mod 8 stuff settles out, and think this is a great thread!

[The_Phenx]

Well yep we now have clarification that THF works with staves... this opens up a lot of different possibilities.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=159786

Obviously things need a bit of tinkering... it works great as is... but...Right now I'm leaning toward loosing the Great cleave and toughness, taking the hit on hit points, and taking the THF and Ithf and picking toughness back up at 18th. The reasoning being that will leave me with cleave for an approach shot, and occasional mob control... and build up the to hit and damage of the glancing blows nicely, should be in the 18-22 range I believe. The loss of toughness is negated by the dragonmarks since they are like having an extra 1500 hp in your pocket, with the ac and saves + evasion it should still be a very survivable build.

Or I could drop both cleaves keep toughness and do the same thing... or drop both cleaves and toughness and take the whole line, its food for thought.

I will have to look at everything. Of course I could splash another monk level in and pick up the feat that hes short and 1 more to the BAB... BUT.. then I run the risk of loosing acrobat III when it releases later on. Ill stick to the original 14/2 plan until We have more knowledge in mod 9 and I can modify then if necessary.

Will post later to the decision... but you can see the ability to change the build aroud for multiple schools of thought.

[The_Phenx]

Dont get me wrong, with the announcement on THF affecting Qstaffs I think this style of build will catch fire and I love it. But I'm still challenging you a little bit on the early level greatness of it...the +2 holy qstaff is a function of equipment, not the build. A barb could have an equivalent two hander. Also, at this level, don't the other THF weapons get a level of inherent glancing blows that the qstaff does not? Add this to the Barb rage and Barb BAB advantage and I'm still skeptical that this build, at early levels, is superior in DPS to an equivalently equipped (very key point) barbarian. The sneak attack should disappear the minute you hit something as you are doing enough dps to pull aggro.

But, I'm totally nitpicking just for the sake of discussion...love the concept, am looking at doing this myself once the mod 8 stuff settles out, and think this is a great thread!

Yes a barb will hit harder earler, Base damage only. The rouge/monk gets 10% alacrity bonus starting at lvl 1 and a 15% rouge boost, and sneak attack damage, Strengths are close, The greatax's doing glancing blows earlier in the BAB progression.

LAter on the barb gets all that rage for damage, which will be offset by the base 30% alacrity bonus the acrobat will get, 48.5% when hasted. Then it goes to 78.5% with rouge boost. Then stack madstone for 98.5%... just silly.

The sneak attack only dissapears if you are soloing really.. if your in a group you just hit diplo and when they turn around you pound them again. Or play with an intimitank, or get a glitterdust cast.. or fight in a firewall... etc.

I'm not necessarily shure what the dps comparison will be, in the end it ought to be pretty silly... .I was just after making a worthwhile quarterstaff user, and I think I have landed on the dot, (with a few tweaks here and there)

[The_Phenx]

Ugh, please don't tell him that. Last thing he needs is MORE of an ego with people trying to mimic his builds. :rolleyes:

ROFL onyl an ego with ghin.. and thats cause hes my lil buddy

[The_Phenx]

Ok so I made my decision.

Dropping the dragonmarks in exchange for the two handed fighting line

SO the feats are now changed in the original post.

Reasoning...

He will have a 37 umd without too terribly much work. SO heal scrolls and pots should be fine.

The other side... I plan on sporting Madstone boots all the time as my dex item... my striding item and for the madstone rage str/con bonus and the 20% alacrity boost. Since you cant dragonmark while madstoned... the reasoning is obvious.

Oh and for the comparison to barbs etc.
Using a +3 frost quarterstaff at lvl 7
Outkilled a equivalent level barbarian
Kept up with a lvl 9 fighter and lvl 9 rouge
In tempest normal.

Just got lvl 8 for the acrobat I

Can flip with no buffs WOOT! lol... the attack speed is climbing nicely.

[Blazer]

Don't forget, just like you can't dragonmark when madstoned, the same applies to using scrolls.

[The_Phenx]

Aye I know... He will just not be a solo toon... which is fine I have Ghin for that.

I can always carry scrolls/pots and remove said boots if I want to run sans cleric however.

[quickgrif]

gtwf should not be possible because your bab will be too low for it correct?

[The_Phenx]

Whats the BAB requirement for GTHF?

Cant remember and its not listed in the compendium.

[Blazer]

whats The Bab Requirement For Gthf?

+11

[The_Phenx]

gtwf should not be possible because your bab will be too low for it correct?

How did I know that Blazer would know... lol

Then to answer the question I will be fine.

2 monk = +2 bab
14 rouge = +9 bab

for a +11

[Fennario]

Ok so I made my decision.

Dropping the dragonmarks in exchange for the two handed fighting line

Let me know how that works out for you. I have a dwarf rogue/monk acrobat QS wielder that I have been playing since monks came out. I've considered trying the THF line, but thats a lot of time and feat swapping if I don't like it.

It is similar to your build but I went dwarf for hitpoints and tactics. With a 30 str, dwarf enhancements, and a weighted QS, his Stunning Blow is pretty lethal. And 400+ hp on a rouge is handy as well.

[Blazer]

How did I know that Blazer would know... lol

Because I've been playing this game for far, far, FAR too long. ;)


Then to answer the question I will be fine.

2 monk = +2 bab
14 rouge = +9 bab

for a +11

Correction:

2 monk = +2 BAB
14 rogue = +10 BAB

But you'll still be fine because you'll get your last feat at character level 15 (2 monk/13 rogue) when your total BAB will be +11 (+2 for monk lvl 2/+9 for rogue lvl 13).

[The_Phenx]

Because I've been playing this game for far, far, FAR too long. ;)



Correction:

2 monk = +2 BAB
14 rogue = +10 BAB

But you'll still be fine because you'll get your last feat at character level 15 (2 monk/13 rogue) when your total BAB will be +11 (+2 for monk lvl 2/+9 for rogue lvl 13).

AHH I Didnt know how the game would handle it.. since 3/4 of 14 is 9.75 thought it might not count as a +10

[Blazer]

AHH I Didnt know how the game would handle it.. since 3/4 of 14 is 9.75 thought it might not count as a +10

Nah, it follows the BAB progression outlined in the PHB. I don't have a PHB for this edition so I use the d20 SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/index.htm). Oh, and you need a new calculator. 3/4 of 14 is 10.5 buddy. :)

[quickgrif]

You are correct it is +11 DDO was down so I checked the DDO chargen it said 15 bah.

[The_Phenx]

Nah, it follows the BAB progression outlined in the PHB. I don't have a PHB for this edition so I use the d20 SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/index.htm). Oh, and you need a new calculator. 3/4 of 14 is 10.5 buddy. :)

Well I'll be damned... stupid pc (chucking it off the balcony)

[The_Phenx]

Oh and build update.
Lvl 8 is sweet... the +2 holy righteous staff is doin the job quite nicely.

10k from 9th and hes still holdling his own nicely... even considering that he only has knezas bauble :)

[The_Phenx]

Wooo lvl 9

141 hp with a dusk heart n +5 con belt.

31 base ac now...and climbing.

Picked up great cleave last night.

Still seriously fun.

:D

[Hasteclicky]

Monks are still considered a 3/4 BAB class for the purpose of determining access to feats, so the monk 2 only provides a BAB of 1, but either way you'll still be fine for hitting the mark for GTHF.

[The_Phenx]

WOOO Level 10, and access to w/e m/b disrupters +3 icyburst of prue good.. YAAA uber quarterstaves.

Still adjusting out the feats to get thf in there... Fred is loving me.

But the lil guy is fantastic... I will post his stats soon.

[Murderface]

no radiance 15-20 crit which isnt great for a rogue

[Blazer]

no radiance 15-20 crit which isnt great for a rogue

It was never intended to be the be-all, end-all rogue build. It was intended to be something with flavor and different from what you normally see and overall - something fun. And in the end, isn't that sorta the point of the game?

It's refreshing to see builds that can still be successful without being cardboard cutouts, no? Otherwise all you'd see would be TWF dwarfs with Min II weapons, ranger/monk crazy AC builds, WF wizards, and rogues with Rad II rapiers. It's bad enough that everyone's character in this game looks the same gear-wise (all who can use heavy armor have VOD fullplate; light armor is Hound BP or chainshirt; no armor is white dragonscale robe or icy rainment; casters in blue dragonscale robe/armor/docent; etc), must they all have the same weapons, builds, and feats, too?

[D'rin]

Absolutely they must have the same builds or else they are gimped and do not deserve to be seen anywhere near my party:rolleyes:

Having seen way to many halfling/elf monk rangers running around and dwarven tanks I am trying out new builds that may work almost as well and are more fun since they are not the norm. I have a displacement elven intimidate tank( I know a non dwarf tanks is gimped) and like the looks of this build for the pure fun of it.

I will ask this. Do you think the twf feats are worth it for the +20-30 points on glancing blows? It seems that with most of your damage coming from speed and sneak attack the glancing blows would be minimal addition. Although I suppose that 20-30 with 30% more swings would add up.

[Hasteclicky]

Well would the 20% reduction in attack speed and half dmg from PA be worth the twf line and thus making him the same as every other rogue on the server?

[BlackSteel]

to the OP:

could you count swings per minute with the staff once you're above 12? or as many attacks as u can get in during the duration of one haste potion.

considering making a wf acrobat/fighter, but unsure whether i want to pursue qstaffs so far.

[The_Phenx]

Absolutely they must have the same builds or else they are gimped and do not deserve to be seen anywhere near my party:rolleyes:

Having seen way to many halfling/elf monk rangers running around and dwarven tanks I am trying out new builds that may work almost as well and are more fun since they are not the norm. I have a displacement elven intimidate tank( I know a non dwarf tanks is gimped) and like the looks of this build for the pure fun of it.

I will ask this. Do you think the twf feats are worth it for the +20-30 points on glancing blows? It seems that with most of your damage coming from speed and sneak attack the glancing blows would be minimal addition. Although I suppose that 20-30 with 30% more swings would add up.

The +20-30 pts.. im trying it out... worst case I will swap them back out for dragonmarks later on if feel they are not helping much.

FOr one on one opponents it means an extra 60-80 pts damage per animation sequence (that almost always hit) for groups... it adds up VERY quickly... if you are surrounded by 4 guys its 240 - 320 pts per animation which doesn't take very long.

THe % is odd... unhasted its 30% hasted itll be 23.5% ... still...

Once I get it up to 16th and run end game content is when I will make my choice.. just at this point i felt it was very worth it, and am dealing with buying potions.

[The_Phenx]

to the OP:

could you count swings per minute with the staff once you're above 12? or as many attacks as u can get in during the duration of one haste potion.

considering making a wf acrobat/fighter, but unsure whether i want to pursue qstaffs so far.

Will be happy to if i can.. lol...thats going to be a high #.

Which boosts do you want included.

Haste
Rouge Boost
Air Stance
Madstone Rage

Let me know. Just remember what makes the build super nasty is the sneak attacks.. as well as the main damage. at 16th lvl itl be around 60-80 per hit (without aggro).

[The_Phenx]

Build Update all #rs are unbuffed

11th lvl stats. (with no stance on) Obviously they are at odd #rs since at 13th itll be +6 instead of +5 gear... and 2 more str bumps from 12th and 16...

23 str
23 dex
20 Con
19 int
17 wis
9 cha

Saves
16 20 15

191 hit points

32 base ac (mage armor potion, in air stance)
45 ac self buffed

+14 to hit 1d6 + 22 pa on (+19th w/ghero n haste) Using a +5 acid staff

Bloodstone, Minos, Backstabber gloves... all other items are normal gear.

Still a lil light on the ac but that will improve at 13th... +3 from +7 armor bracers rr halfy + 2 more from wis + 1-2 more from dex etc. will land him at a 35 base then its just acquiring raid items to get it up there. Chattering, Seal of the earth, Shroud weap.. raiments... etc.

Gotta say hes still freakin awesome... cleave and sneak attack rule...
Nothing like doing 80+ pts to all mobs around you.. diplo'ing and running away :)

[BlackSteel]

just haste n madstone if possible, don't think i'll be squeezing in monk myself as I'd like to have fighter levels instead

i'm going to play around with a staff on my barb and see what numbers I come up with, did a lil bit, but its going to take some getting used to in order to count it correctly, the last two animations keep throwing me off

additionally do you notice a substantial increase in glancing blow damage when using madstone boots? more than what a boost of 4 str should give you? glancing blow damage is related to BaB, and I ask b/c the jump between 15 n 16 BaB is remarkable.

[The_Phenx]

Ok will do.

I just did the prereqs for reaver this weekend... so off to the tor hopefully tonight and I will score a set from my first couple reaver runs. It might be a week or so but I'm working on it.

Yes you will see a significant increase.

#1 because of the 4 str
#2 because madstone gives full BAB...
#3 the glancing blow animations on staves come for the last 3 attacks

[The_Phenx]

YAAA lvl 12.

base AC is now above a 30 FINALLY lol.. I sholda bought more gear for the level up process. lvl 13 he shod hit mid 40's base...

All the good staves I have been saving are finally being used.

Took Imp crit and have the bloodstone on now. SA damage is always 30+ Crits are 75 + base damage... good times... good times.

Using a +4 icy burst righteous staff.

[The_Phenx]

Oh an we know that Kill counts are a fairly useless tool. But when your 12th level and outkill a 12/2 tempest ranger DW kopeshs its still a good feeling.

Oh and AC is great w barkskin and mage armor pots.. sitting at 36 now, 37 w haste. 41 w shield clicky, 47 w uncanny, 48 w haste... :) Gettin there, looks like the mid 50's base should be right on target.

[The_Phenx]

So I can finally start using some of my gear, thank GOD.

Dropped on my +7 rr halfy armor bracers....boots of the innocent...wooot!

Now If I can get a +5 prot ring (have one for 15th) and a +6 wis item ill be at a 37 base, starting to get somewhere. 4 more ap's and I get one more dex bump as well...or If I just redid my enhancements.

So base 38 ac is in sight, and Im starting to raid finally.

Sitting at 222 hp at the moment, and climbing.

Saves are outstanding, as is DPS.

[The_Phenx]

So after much debating and scheming I have decided to reverse the decision to take the Two Handed Fighting Feats.

Reasons:

At the current BAB (+10) and the final (+11) he will not get past the 4th attack animation without a DP clickie or a active charge of madstone rage.

The only attacks on staffs that get glancing blows are #3 and #5, so to burn three feats to get an extra 12 pts of damage (from 9 to 23) on the glancing blows seems very excessive to me.

He will still get the glances at thier base value, so im inclined to think that having the full set of healing dragonmarks is going to be much more useful and viable in the long run. So im on the 6 day plan to switch back.

But he still rules and I highly reccomend the build as a fun great dps toon, and now he will be much more survivable, and able to solo effectively.

[BlackSteel]

So after much debating and scheming I have decided to reverse the decision to take the Two Handed Fighting Feats.

Reasons:

At the current BAB (+10) and the final (+11) he will not get past the 4th attack animation without a DP clickie or a active charge of madstone rage.

The only attacks on staffs that get glancing blows are #3 and #5, so to burn three feats to get an extra 12 pts of damage (from 9 to 23) on the glancing blows seems very excessive to me.

He will still get the glances at thier base value, so im inclined to think that having the full set of healing dragonmarks is going to be much more useful and viable in the long run. So im on the 6 day plan to switch back.

But he still rules and I highly reccomend the build as a fun great dps toon, and now he will be much more survivable, and able to solo effectively.

currently thats probably a good decision, but staff glancing blows and updates to THF in general is in the works for the near future. The feats may be more warranted once those changes are actually in game.

[The_Phenx]

currently thats probably a good decision, but staff glancing blows and updates to THF in general is in the works for the near future. The feats may be more warranted once those changes are actually in game.

Aye I looked at that too, and weill certainly re-evaluate once they do whatever it is they are doing.

I havent forgotten your request either, Did my first reaver on him last night (got the ring of lies) and as soon as I get the madstone boots ill time things for ya.

[The_Phenx]

ACROBAT II

Is freakin sweet...Immune to knockdown rules!

Air eles? I laugh in their face they can chuck me into a wall but they cant knock me over. Dogs? Improved Trip? HA... I scoff, Ice Flensers? Let everyone else ice skate. Demon Queen? Bah. Hound of Xoriat I ride her like a puppy.

The staff speed is great, damage output is getting up there... still need a few pieces of gear and some more tomes to make it right.

Did VOD, Shroud, Hound for the first time. Using a +5 transmuting PG staff seeing 35-40 base + 35-40 Sneak Damage +3 PG + 1d4 for storm strike - on the bosses. Crits are in the 75-80 range obviously. And all the way boosted its a lot of attacks... not as many as my twf but the base damage is higher and glancing blows are nice.

Got the first greensteel blank but it will be holy good burst +4 ac (will put me to a 41 base) Still need chattering/seal/etc etc....

2nd Im not shure, leaning toward lightning strike, radiance, or xmuting...

Cloak will be mineral II HP and Cha skills type thing... but holding off till i see the new gear from the new content.

Be 15th tonight and finish my re-spec back to dragonmarks.

Still a blast to play and can hang with the big dps'rs...

[Arkat]

What's this toon's name man? Preying Mantis? I'd love to run with you to see it in action.

[The_Phenx]

What's this toon's name man? Preying Mantis? I'd love to run with you to see it in action.

Yep Yep that is I.

:)

[The_Phenx]

Update. lvl 15.3

Dragonmark line is finished swapping in. The healing is MORE than enough.

Enhancements are tight but enough to get 3 tiers of dragonmarks and all 4 tiers of boost. When I rework them I should be able to get all 4 of each w acrobat and the various monk stances.

Got a set of Icy Raiments (big surprise there).
Did the Ac Ritual for that extra +1
Sitting at 42 unbuffed.
45 w bark pot
49 w shield wand (28umd boosted atm so 100% chance w 5th lvl 50% w 10th)
Click on uncanny dodge and showtime for an additional +8

54 base should be very do-able with a chattering ring/seal of the earth/+4 shroud/+3 dex tome in air stance. Maybe 1 more with enhancements done the right way.

HP are up to 298 base so when I get the shroud item made I will be just shy of 350.

Still need lots of gear, the only good loot I have at this point is the raiments and the ring of lies. The rest is all common acquire.

[BlackSteel]

rolled my wf version the other night, with the introduction of DT docents, the AC should be much more friendly (also easier to squeeze in all the item attributes needed)

starting stats were

15 str
15 dex
15 con
13 wis
11 int
6 chr

planning on putting 1 lvl up point in both wisdom and dex, and two into str

[The_Phenx]

rolled my wf version the other night, with the introduction of DT docents, the AC should be much more friendly (also easier to squeeze in all the item attributes needed)

starting stats were

15 str
15 dex
15 con
13 wis
11 int
6 chr

planning on putting 1 lvl up point in both wisdom and dex, and two into str



No umd for you tho :(

As for the level up point into wis, you probably wont need to. The 2 monk levels give you access to the monk +1 wisdom enhancement. Then a +2 tome and your even. +6 Item your at a 22 wis ...

And to do acrobat II you have to take three tiers of rouge dex... so +3 there +2 tome +6 item gives you a 26 dex then air stance brings it to 28

That being said I kinda am prefering Fire stance now for damage... +1 th +1Damage no con penalties, Air stance is nice for defensive moments tho.

You'll have to fill me in on how it goes...

[The_Phenx]

Decided to go lightning II for my first staff, three more days and its done, just trying to acquire my last devil scale.

First two tiers are pretty smokin tho.

[BlackSteel]

my umd will just be one point behind yours ^^

[The_Phenx]

valid point :) lol

[The_Phenx]

Finally hit level cap, so enhancements will be getting their final re-working, and I will post results in a day or two as to what I went with.

Lightning II done... pretty cool I must say. Did holy + shocking burst + 4 insight ac

Leaves me at a 47 base ac. Umd a shield wand, drink a bark pot and hanging at a 54. Uncanny dodge for a 60. Still need the chattering ring, and a few other trinkets, and looks like my beholder ac will be a 53 with self buff to 64... put on defensive fighting a haste and a bard pally etc and 70's are easy.

Next in line is a hp/existential cloak.

[Arkat]

Mineral II done... pretty cool I must say. Did holy + shocking burst + 4 insight ac

Shocking Burst on Mineral II? You sure about that?

[The_Phenx]

Shocking Burst on Mineral II? You sure about that?

Fixed :rolleyes:

[The_Phenx]

Sorry it took so long. Main post updated with current stats... enhancements etc.

Lil guy is still the bomb. :)

Picked up some wounding and vorpal kamas for those I gotta have them moments. (where is my vorpal quarterstaff)

[Jerous]

At what levels did you take your monk ?

I just started one last night and I took my first monk at level 2.

[The_Phenx]

I went Rouge Monk Rouge Monk Rouge -----> 16th

So you get 4 feats right off then the rest happen at the usual intervals.

Ill see If I can re-arrange the feats in teh main post to the order I took them.

[The_Phenx]

Shroud Cloak Done... 346 hp... just need that +3:D con tome now which puts me to 362 hp ... little above what I thought originally...

[Samadhi]

A couple questions for you as I have a similar build I'm toying with:

How often, if ever, do you find non-intimitate tanks able to hold aggro over you?

What are your final thoughts on the attack speed now that you have it capped?

Do you have any issues with your to hit when you are not getting sneak attacks?

What are your thoughts on using Power Attack with this build?

Do you think improved crit on bludgeon is worth a feat given the weak crits range/multiplier on staves anyhow?

[Balkas]

What are your final thoughts on the attack speed now that you have it capped?

I've grouped with Preying a few times, and I'd describe his attack speed with one word: ridiculous.

[D'rin]

I am looking at a WF version(building 2 rogues at the moment) with the new enhancements for WF special effects on thf it should be just about as good as the halfling sneak attack bonus.

[Balkas]

I am looking at a WF version(building 2 rogues at the moment) with the new enhancements for WF special effects on thf it should be just about as good as the halfling sneak attack bonus.

Yeah, I also am making a warforged, although I think I'll end up going 13/7. Don't forget about WF Power Attack :)

[Hasteclicky]

I've planned out the warforged version and I think your gonna have trouble hitting without the sneak attacks. Starting with an even lower cha your diplo which is gonna be key to getting them will be even lower and fitting in a permanent diplo item is rough on a rogue, I know from experience. I'm thinking you may have to go lower on rogue and swap in fighter lvls to get your to hit up. Keep in mind you will have to significantly reduce ur damage enhancements in order to do traps endgame.

[Balkas]

Does Acrobat increase the attack speed of the Shining Crescents? I know that it shouldn't, but I wouldn't be surprised if it did.


I've planned out the warforged version and I think your gonna have trouble hitting without the sneak attacks.

Divine Power clickies :)

[The_Phenx]

A couple questions for you as I have a similar build I'm toying with:

How often, if ever, do you find non-intimitate tanks able to hold aggro over you?

What are your final thoughts on the attack speed now that you have it capped?

Do you have any issues with your to hit when you are not getting sneak attacks?

What are your thoughts on using Power Attack with this build?

Do you think improved crit on bludgeon is worth a feat given the weak crits range/multiplier on staves anyhow?

Non Intim tanks... not very often unfortunately. Which Is why I maxed out diplo and another reason for the existential Stalemate HP item from the shroud... the +10 diplo rolled in with the +6 wisdom and the +45 hp is unbeatable.

The attack speed is fantastic, still not totally capped yet, need madstone boots for the additional 20%. I would say it is comparable to my twf when he is unboosted. Not as high of dps but in certain situations he excells quite nicely. But then again its not a max dps build (twf kopesh etc), its a max dps with quarterstaves build... works great is a good addition to a party and is a blast to play.

I have no problems hitting most mobs, some like orthon and devils and the higher CR monsters I have to turn power attack off for (unless bard buffed) but its really a non issue.

Power attack is neat, not 100% necessary but it is a nice bit of dps, especially when you have aggro and loose your sneak attack damage.

Improved crit bludgeon, once again not 100% necessary, but its fun especially when using the dreamspitter. And although its only 10% I do see crits on a regular basis.

But I took the monk levels to gain the two extra feats for power attack and imp crit, along with the ac and saves bonuses. So I'm not sure what I would have spent them on otherwise, or perhaps I wouldn't have multiclassed.

[The_Phenx]

I am looking at a WF version(building 2 rogues at the moment) with the new enhancements for WF special effects on thf it should be just about as good as the halfling sneak attack bonus.

Aye if not better... sigh :) still I can't live without the dragonmarks.

[The_Phenx]

Does Acrobat increase the attack speed of the Shining Crescents? I know that it shouldn't, but I wouldn't be surprised if it did.



Divine Power clickies :)

The crescents count for all practical purposes as a quarterstaff, and it wouldn't surprise me if they did speed up, but I haven't managed to secure one yet.

[Samadhi]

I have no problems hitting most mobs, some like orthon and devils and the higher CR monsters I have to turn power attack off for (unless bard buffed) but its really a non issue.

Power attack is neat, not 100% necessary but it is a nice bit of dps, especially when you have aggro and loose your sneak attack damage.



This one in particular surprises me, especially since you mentioned that you hadn't gotten madstone boots yet. Thanks for all the replies!!

[SableShadow]

The crescents count for all practical purposes as a quarterstaff, and it wouldn't surprise me if they did speed up, but I haven't managed to secure one yet.

At the moment, they seem to count as a sickle...I have one and haven't noticed the Acrobat staff speed applying to them, and a monk friend of mine has one...doesn't count as being centered either. :(

[The_Phenx]

This one in particular surprises me, especially since you mentioned that you hadn't gotten madstone boots yet. Thanks for all the replies!!

Now its not like my fighter where he only misses on a 1...And I do occasionally see Miss...but its a very low percentage.

I use greater bane staves for certain mobs with stupid ac's (like vermin, have a +5 greater bane).

For those mobs you just can't dps I carry a set of vorpal kamas & Wonding Kamas.

Everything else gets the Lightning II or the Dreamspitter (which I use a lot since its +5 greater evil outsider bane and it goes OOOOoooooo)

If I know I'm going to go into a battle with a very high ac mob (think running with the devils elite... final red orthons) I will pop a divine power clickie, for that extra +4 th.

[hu-flung-pu]

Love the build.

What kind of speed boost do you get with way of the acrobat 2?

[The_Phenx]

I believe Its 10%... but we have never been able to get a developer comment on the actual amount of the increases.

But when combined with air stance, haste and rouge attack boost its stupid :D

[EinarMal]

I am leveling a similar build and cleave + diplomacy is a lot of fun. Have you considered also taking great cleave so you could cleave + diplo + great cleave + diplo + cleave. I am pretty sure that cleave and great cleave are on different timers.

At the least you could do the cleave + diplo + great cleave and really **** off a bunch of mobs.

**Edit just saw great cleave in your feat list (was that in there before doh!)

[The_Phenx]

Ya they are on seperate timers and YES it is AWESOME lol.

I literally jump in do cleave + Diplo + great cleave + diplo then work on single opponents...

Its a TON of damage, ****es off everything...and I owuld reccomend modifying your strategy to....

Uncanny Dodge + cleave + diplo + greate cleave + diplo Saves the hide a little...

[D'rin]

So here is the warforged version I am thinking of.
str 16 +4 levels + 2 tome + 6 item= 28
dex 15 + 3 enhancement + 6 item= 24 could be 26 with +2 tome.
con 14 +2 enhancement +6 item = 22
int 12
wis 12 +1 tome +1 enhancement +6 item= 20
cha 6

feats
1st THF
2 1st level monk power attack
3rd cleave monk toughness
6th great cleave
9th ITHF
12 Improved crit blug
15 GTHF

My only concern is the diplomacy is going to be low with a 6 cha.

Now that effects from thf and wf enhancements give a chance on glancing blows this should synergy well. Add into that the wf power attack enhancements and the over all damage should be as good possiblly better than a halfling.

Not to mention immune to almost everything. I have 2 thief acrobats in the works this one is definintly the more unigue.

[The_Phenx]

So here is the warforged version I am thinking of.
str 16 +4 levels + 2 tome + 6 item= 28
dex 15 + 3 enhancement + 6 item= 24 could be 26 with +2 tome.
con 14 +2 enhancement +6 item = 22
int 12
wis 12 +1 tome +1 enhancement +6 item= 20
cha 6

feats
1st THF
2 1st level monk power attack
3rd cleave monk toughness
6th great cleave
9th ITHF
12 Improved crit blug
15 GTHF

My only concern is the diplomacy is going to be low with a 6 cha.

Now that effects from thf and wf enhancements give a chance on glancing blows this should synergy well. Add into that the wf power attack enhancements and the over all damage should be as good possiblly better than a halfling.

Not to mention immune to almost everything. I have 2 thief acrobats in the works this one is definintly the more unigue.


Air stance gives you +2 dex -2 Con... so bear that in mind... but I think its worth it for the alacrity boost and the +1 to ac.

if you can source a +2 int tome I would.. as the monk levels are a lil difficult to keep up all the enhancements to make him a good rouge.

Yep if your going the warforged route, taking the thf line makes a lot of sence, those are the feats i spent on the dragonmarks, and of course now that they are changing how that all works I will be re-visiting that decision later on, after I see the percentage rates. The power attack enhancements might make your to hit too low, time will tell...

Wisdom :) 12 + 1 + 1 + 6 = 18 need a +3 tome to get to 20

The umd will be 1 lower as will the diplo, BUT... I only use a +10 diplo item (exestential stalemate) and the only thing I can't diplo is sulu, and I need a +2 cha tome and I think I can. (duno what the diplo score needed is but I could do it with a +13 item)

[D'rin]

Air stance gives you +2 dex -2 Con... so bear that in mind... but I think its worth it for the alacrity boost and the +1 to ac.

if you can source a +2 int tome I would.. as the monk levels are a lil difficult to keep up all the enhancements to make him a good rouge.

Yep if your going the warforged route, taking the thf line makes a lot of sence, those are the feats i spent on the dragonmarks, and of course now that they are changing how that all works I will be re-visiting that decision later on, after I see the percentage rates. The power attack enhancements might make your to hit too low, time will tell...

Wisdom :) 12 + 1 + 1 + 6 = 18 need a +3 tome to get to 20

The umd will be 1 lower as will the diplo, BUT... I only use a +10 diplo item (exestential stalemate) and the only thing I can't diplo is sulu, and I need a +2 cha tome and I think I can. (duno what the diplo score needed is but I could do it with a +13 item)

Add the wisdom score one more time. 12 +1 +1 = 14 +6 = 20. No big deal but it does mean a better will save and more AC.

I did forget about the dex bonus con negative of the air stance. I could also use fire stance for a 30 str and loose one ac. It would be flexible which is kind a nice. This just seems the best use for all of the quarter staves that I have out there that I saved for my monk.

[The_Phenx]

Add the wisdom score one more time. 12 +1 +1 = 14 +6 = 20. No big deal but it does mean a better will save and more AC.

I did forget about the dex bonus con negative of the air stance. I could also use fire stance for a 30 str and loose one ac. It would be flexible which is kind a nice. This just seems the best use for all of the quarter staves that I have out there that I saved for my monk.

ROFL wow.. teach me to watch a movie on my Ipod while working and surfing forums and texting to a woman... my multitasking switch is being faulty.

I've played with both fire and air stance.

Its +1 Reflex +1 Ac +1 Dex skills -2 Con 10% non hasted alacrity 3.5% hasted

VS.

+1 TH +1 DM +1 STR Skills

I leave air on almost constantly the alacrity is too sweet to pass up, later on when I have more free AP's ill prolly grab both again.

[Guildmaster_Kadish]

At the moment, they seem to count as a sickle...I have one and haven't noticed the Acrobat staff speed applying to them, and a monk friend of mine has one...doesn't count as being centered either. :(

Your monk friend is feeding you some faulty information... the crescents work just fine as a centered weapon.

[SableShadow]

Your monk friend is feeding you some faulty information... the crescents work just fine as a centered weapon.

Or maybe something changed....sounds like I may have to pull it out of the bank and give it another test. :)

[The_Phenx]

Your monk friend is feeding you some faulty information... the crescents work just fine as a centered weapon.

Correct... they do get a -4 to hit for pure monk due to lack of weapon proficiency.

[nbhs275]

Now, whats your opinion of changing this build over to WF, and taking the THF feats to take advantage of the change to glancing blows? Hmm, would it apply SA dice? if so you would be looking at nearly double damage on each hit, for over the top damage sillyness.

[maddmatt70]

I rolled up a dwarven version of this build (probably go 19 rogue 1 monk though) a couple of weeks ago. When the wf thf enhancement were listed in the last week or so I thought about rerolling as a wf, but decided for non min max reasons I wanted to stay a dwarf. Wf is probably the best race for this build from a min max standpoint other then perhaps a halfling.

[The_Phenx]

They all have their merits...

I have mine built to be more of a dps'r and a survivor. Hence halfling for the SA damage and the Dragonmarks.

If I did the WF version...It would need more umd for repair, and I would take the THF feat line... Better glancing blows... less SA damage... worse heals...Better Immunities...lower to hit...lower saves...lower ac...more power attack.

Kinda a wash...a lil more base damage vs. a lil less suvivability...

I would doubt the SA damage would count for glancing blows.. its not a weapon effect... except in the case of backstabbing items...

[The_Phenx]

So.. a good weekend all around.

I acquired a +2 cha tome bringing my boosted umd to a 31.

Still need 7 fingered gloves...head of good fortune.. but not bad at the moment.

ANd FINALLY got a set of madstone boots.

For those who wanted to know.

With madstone + haste + rouge boost gets you 1 swing shy of 10 attack animations in 20 secconds.

so.. 49 swings in 20 secconds. Its absolutely crazy. + the 4 nat armor bonus fantastic.

Not shure how that compares to a regular guy.. someone have the #rs?

[RigorAdar]

My G/F plays a modified version of this build. With a +4 Weakening of Enfeebling Q-staff and diplo, it is sick how quick the mobs go down. Wounding of Puncturing 2WF is quicker but DPS barbarians are slower by far on Prey elite.

[Dark-Star]

One of the devs stated somewhere that SA would not apply to the new GB changes.

[Fennario]

Just a heads up to anyone making a build like this and trying to max out the THF line at current cap.

You can't do it with a 14/2 rogue/monk, or even a 15/1 rogue/monk.

Your BAB at level 15 when you need to take GTHF will be +10 and it has to be +11. It will not be +11 until level 16.

The only way you can do it at current cap is to go 14/1/1 rogue/monk/fighter. You would take the 1 fighter level at 16 and use your fighter bonus feat for GTHF.

Which is still a viable build as you get the monk stances and wis bonus to AC with just the 1 level monk splash.

[Dark-Star]

Not exactly true. You can take monk at level 16 and be fine, though that eliminates the monk benefits while doing most of your leveling.

[The_Phenx]

Just a heads up to anyone making a build like this and trying to max out the THF line at current cap.

You can't do it with a 14/2 rogue/monk, or even a 15/1 rogue/monk.

Your BAB at level 15 when you need to take GTHF will be +10 and it has to be +11. It will not be +11 until level 16.

The only way you can do it at current cap is to go 14/1/1 rogue/monk/fighter. You would take the 1 fighter level at 16 and use your fighter bonus feat for GTHF.

Which is still a viable build as you get the monk stances and wis bonus to AC with just the 1 level monk splash.

Yes you can.

Your BAB at lvl 16 is +12 As a 14/2 Rouge/Monk

GTHF is avail at 15th as it should be.

Its the way to go if your doing a warforged version... as opposed to a self heal halfling.

[Fennario]

Yes you can.

Your BAB at lvl 16 is +12 As a 14/2 Rouge/Monk

GTHF is avail at 15th as it should be.

Its the way to go if your doing a warforged version... as opposed to a self heal halfling.

It is and it isn't. It may say that on your character sheet, but your BAB at 16 is actually 11.

A monk and a rogue have the same 3/4 BAB progression. They both are at +0 at level 1.

While Flurry of Blows gives the monk a full BAB while centered, I'm pretty sure that does not count as qualifying for feats. (For example, a monk can't take Weapon Finesse at level 1 as you need a BAB of +1.)

So a level 14 rogue has a BAB of +10, and a level 1 monk has +0. Or a level 13 rogue has a BAB of +9, and a level 2 monk has +1. 10+0=10, or 9+1=10, leaving you 1 short of the requirement at level 15.

I originally had a dwarf similar to this build, but I rerolled him as a warforged. The 14/1/1 rogue/monk/fighter split actually works pretty well in my case. I think the only thing you really lose is the +1 wis enhancement that the 2 monk gets. You still get an extra feat, and you gain Fighter Toughness I, Fighter Strategy I (my guy has Stunning Blow), Fighter Intimidate I (have max intimidate as well as diplo... every little bit helps when you have a crappy cha), and all martial weapons (in case you want to pull out a great axe or something in certain situations).

[The_Phenx]

It is and it isn't. It may say that on your character sheet, but your BAB at 16 is actually 11.

A monk and a rogue have the same 3/4 BAB progression. They both are at +0 at level 1.

While Flurry of Blows gives the monk a full BAB while centered, I'm pretty sure that does not count as qualifying for feats. (For example, a monk can't take Weapon Finesse at level 1 as you need a BAB of +1.)

So a level 14 rogue has a BAB of +10, and a level 1 monk has +0. Or a level 13 rogue has a BAB of +9, and a level 2 monk has +1. 10+0=10, or 9+1=10, leaving you 1 short of the requirement at level 15.

I originally had a dwarf similar to this build, but I rerolled him as a warforged. The 14/1/1 rogue/monk/fighter split actually works pretty well in my case. I think the only thing you really lose is the +1 wis enhancement that the 2 monk gets. You still get an extra feat, and you gain Fighter Toughness I, Fighter Strategy I (my guy has Stunning Blow), Fighter Intimidate I (have max intimidate as well as diplo... every little bit helps when you have a crappy cha), and all martial weapons (in case you want to pull out a great axe or something in certain situations).

I see the reasons, but trust me you can take gthf I had it, then re-spec'd back to the dragonmarks...which I may switch around again later once the line is updated, but I may not.

And yep I took the 2nd monk level for the wis enhancement, It meant 1 more ac. Since monks gain access to kamas, it allows for wounders, vorpals, and the other effects you cant get on staves, and wont uncenter you so you still get the speed boost from air stance.

There are all kinds of variations possible on the theme. I just wanted a specific flavor in it.

[The_Phenx]

Shining Cresents WOOHOOO.

Yes they work with Acrobat speed enhancements,
No they do not uncenter you
Yes they work with air stance.

[The_Phenx]

20th Reaver Run +3 con tome... WOOT!!!

362 hp now... 346 in air stance... :) Uber im half a dwarf.. truly...

[maddmatt70]

A couple of quick questions. I am currently leveling up my own q-staff rogue character. 1. skills? Did you put many points into balance? Since the 2nd tier of acrobat is immune to knockdowns and slippery areas - is there a point to putting points into balance? 2. To-hit. This is more of a strength based rogue general question, but do you ever have issues hitting? I would imagine without a power attack or ce on you can hit any target, but how often would you have one of those on and in what situations. Likely if a bard is in the group you have one on, but otherwise?

[Shuluth989]

Maddmatt70, out of curiosity did you go Halfing, WF, or other? Also, what is your anticipated build template going to look like at lvl 20? I have been playing around with this style of build and currently have a WF 1 Monk/4 rogue. Kinda waiting to see what they do with Acrobat 3. If there is nothing special thinking a WF 13 rogue/1 monk/6 fighter (for Kensai I) would be nice. With ftr 6 (Kensai I)You get a boost in dps, especially for noncrittable mobs, better to hit, more hp's, better tactics, and 2 fighter feats to work with. Cleave and diplo has been fun, so far. Hehe.

[maddmatt70]

Maddmatt70, out of curiosity did you go Halfing, WF, or other? Also, what is your anticipated build template going to look like at lvl 20? I have been playing around with this style of build and currently have a WF 1 Monk/4 rogue. Kinda waiting to see what they do with Acrobat 3. If there is nothing special thinking a WF 13 rogue/1 monk/6 fighter (for Kensai I) would be nice. With ftr 6 (Kensai I)You get a boost in dps, especially for noncrittable mobs, better to hit, more hp's, better tactics, and 2 fighter feats to work with. Cleave and diplo has been fun, so far. Hehe.

hmm.. As I pointed out in other threads Kensai I as currently posted by the developers is horrible do not do it at least unless the two handed splash damage that a two handed kensai gets is totally broken stay with rogue levels or take a 2nd monk or 1 fighter level but for sure go 18 rogue so you can get acrobat 3. You will lose out on sneak damage of 3d6 + enhancements so you lose out on dps actually if you do it. I have a ranger which is likely going to become a mule eventually because kensai I sucks so bad. Etc. Etc. Etc. Etc..

Edit: my build template will be 19 rogue 1 monk I think.

For the racial decision I went a little less powergamey/took a risk and went dwarf. The best two races at the moment are halfling or warforged. Halfling for saves, sneak damage, and dragonmarks and warforged for splash damage coming in mod 9. I think dwarf is third because they have nice hit points without the wf friend/healing issues. The risk part for me was to qualify for stalwart defender and in certain situations go into defensive stance via the stalwart defender when that becomes available to dwarves in mod 10 (according to the devs it looks likely that it will not be available to dwarves next mod).

[Shuluth989]

Thanks for the response. Yeah everything hinges on what Acrobat 3 is going to look like, and what the weapon effects from 2HF is going to look like. That is why I only have been experimenting with the build concept and will stop at lvl 7 until there is more concrete information. I really wish we had more information on the racial enhancement lines as well, such as Dwarven Defender, Juggernaut, and Dragonmark Heir. Dwarven Defender is the most intriguing but we will have to wait until mod 10 unfortunately. Not sure if I want to go max dps with WF and 2HF, or more defensive with Dwarven Defender, or even sneak attack enhancements and possibly dragonmarks with Halfling. I am so use to high saves and self healing on my toons, too. I will just have to wait until their is more information before I make my final decision. Hope you enjoy your build.

[direwolf33]

A couple of quick questions. I am currently leveling up my own q-staff rogue character. 1. skills? Did you put many points into balance? Since the 2nd tier of acrobat is immune to knockdowns and slippery areas - is there a point to putting points into balance? 2. To-hit. This is more of a strength based rogue general question, but do you ever have issues hitting? I would imagine without a power attack or ce on you can hit any target, but how often would you have one of those on and in what situations. Likely if a bard is in the group you have one on, but otherwise?

Strength based rogues (I have one) are generally at a to-hit disadvantage compared to equally well built dex based rogues or (esp once you take aggro) higher bab pure strength melee. I haven't had to turn off PA lately in shroud/vod/hound though - with destruction armor, vod goggles, and radII.

[Cathabad]

A couple of quick questions. I am currently leveling up my own q-staff rogue character. 1. skills? Did you put many points into balance? Since the 2nd tier of acrobat is immune to knockdowns and slippery areas - is there a point to putting points into balance?

I'd like to second this question. Not sure if I should be putting points into Balance or not, anyone have an opinion on this?

[Dark-Star]

On mine (Acrobot) I put points into balance for two reasons:

1. It helps while leveling up.
2. It gives versatility if you ever decide another PrE is a better choice, (or twf for rogues becomes overly compelling).

I went WF for the coming Glancing Blow enhancements. To me there really is no other racial choice for a thf build now.

So far to hit is an issue w/o a bard in elite quests with Power Attack on. It's either a +5 staff or holy of pg with no PA on. Level 9 currently.

[The_Phenx]

A couple of quick questions. I am currently leveling up my own q-staff rogue character. 1. skills? Did you put many points into balance? Since the 2nd tier of acrobat is immune to knockdowns and slippery areas - is there a point to putting points into balance? 2. To-hit. This is more of a strength based rogue general question, but do you ever have issues hitting? I would imagine without a power attack or ce on you can hit any target, but how often would you have one of those on and in what situations. Likely if a bard is in the group you have one on, but otherwise?


1. Yes I put some points into balance... only because of the titan raid... While he can not knock you down he can still bounce you...so I aimed for the +34 I believe it is? while using a +15 item. There are other considerations tho... if you choose to change your enhancements for example.

2. I RARELY have issues hitting... his + th is very nice, I pull aggro a LOT and i use all +5 weapns. I find the only things I get into miss issues with are elite orthons and the monks in the monistary quest. Power attack turned off negates this very well. Bard negates all issues.
BAB is +12 as listed btw...

[cappuccino]

**** you for making this character idea!!! I just found it from another thread link.

Now your making me either delete a few charcters to create one (I am over limit) or go to another server and build, OR get another account!


Curse You OP:cool::eek::rolleyes:

[Dark-Star]

Phenx and I did some comparisons in Meridia last night, I can attest that the swing speed is rediculous with all hastes going.

Still finding to hit to be an issue on mine so far with PA on. Some of that should be cured with madstone and level 16 buffs when Acrobot eventually gets there.

[The_Phenx]

**** you for making this character idea!!! I just found it from another thread link.

Now your making me either delete a few charcters to create one (I am over limit) or go to another server and build, OR get another account!


Curse You OP:cool::eek::rolleyes:

ROFL... Have fun :)

[The_Phenx]

Phenx and I did some comparisons in Meridia last night, I can attest that the swing speed is rediculous with all hastes going.

Still finding to hit to be an issue on mine so far with PA on. Some of that should be cured with madstone and level 16 buffs when Acrobot eventually gets there.

Make sure to use high + weapons. (4 or 5) + Righteous, or greater banes, whjile your leveling up. That is what made the difference with me. (did some checking for you) Using +1's etc at low levels (I had to turn PA off depending on the buffs that I had gotten.

You can also take 1 enhancement point for fire stance and pick up a cheap +2 to your str to help out a bit, its a choice between 3.5% hasted alacrity and 1 ac or +1 th +1 damage, and at low levels that will help a bit.

Now that I have shroud staves Its only on the high AC mobs, and when I have aggro that I notice anything other than an occasional miss. (think elite orthon defenders, etc, and on those I turn PA off since Im usually stat damaging them anyway)

[D'rin]

So do you have crippling strike?

I have a WF version coming up and have a weakeninng of enfeebling q-stick waiting for him. I figure with the attack speed and crippling strike things strength is going to zero pretty darn fast.

I have to say this build is a blast to play. I am not sure what kind of greensteel I am going for yet but I have a ton of good stuff for higher levels(+4 holy of pure good to hold me over). I have about 4 friends that don't have quarter staff users so I get everything they don't want.

How are your saves? With the warforged the only thing I really have to worry about is hold monter I believe and the dang dance spell.

[The_Phenx]

So do you have crippling strike?

I have a WF version coming up and have a weakeninng of enfeebling q-stick waiting for him. I figure with the attack speed and crippling strike things strength is going to zero pretty darn fast.

I have to say this build is a blast to play. I am not sure what kind of greensteel I am going for yet but I have a ton of good stuff for higher levels(+4 holy of pure good to hold me over). I have about 4 friends that don't have quarter staff users so I get everything they don't want.

How are your saves? With the warforged the only thing I really have to worry about is hold monter I believe and the dang dance spell.

Yep I have cripling strike and a +3 w/e staff... also a +5 M/b I find myself doing various styles... if I'm solo fightiing a mob I tend to w/e or m/b it till I get auto crit break out my dreamspitter and drop him in 2 secconds....the spitter i think is my all around favorite toy... +5 greater evil outsider bane + deleveling... so a really nice to hit and it screws mobs all to hell...and since most of the new guys are evil outsiders...oooooOOOOOOOO

Although cleave with the earthgrab or lightning staff is sooo fun.... just too many options... :)

Base Saves are 20/26/19 so they are fine for most situations, and could be cranked up with my enhancement lines if i really want.

Updated the main post with current gear...

[The_Phenx]

Belt of Brute Strength Acquired... (CHEER)

Now just need the chattering ring and I'm all set.

Swapped in a +6 cha ring for the moment for a better constant UMD score.

20th Shroud is right around the corner too... unless I get my str tome I will be getting a cleansing essence and making a set of immunity gloves for him.

[The_Phenx]

Got a new home... Yay! :D

[The_Phenx]

And the little guy made the builders spotlight in the chronicle... thanks Tolero...

[The_Phenx]

Just some thoughts on my weapons for those who are considering what to make and what to use.

I currently favor several weapons

lightning strike staff
earthgrab staff
dreamspitter
shining cresents
+5 maladroit of bonebreaking
+3 weakening of enfeebling
+5 Transmuting of Pure good

Will touch on the benefits of each and hope it helps you with your decision

Shroud Lightning II staff wtih force hit ritual
Good per hit damage... 6-15 + 3d6 (holy+elec) + 1 (Force) and it rarely decides to proc a ligtning bolt and destroy an enemy. I have found that the lightning even tho its fantastic when it does go off it just doesnt go off nearly enough. I find myself using this mostly for things that need a lot of pounding that are immune to special effects and have no dr. Think red named orthons in VOD. It works fantastic for that.

Earthgrab Staff W/ Force Crit Ritual
Decent per hit damage 6-15 + 2d6 (acid) Shines really well on crits... and since earthgrab is autocrit.....Fantastic for low reflex mobs, elementals, mephits, trogs, casters... It procs maybe 5% of the time or more, and when combined with cleave is fairly destructive. I find myself using this mainly for trash mob beatings, and elementals, since the acid damage is feirce. The thing to remember here is that when earthgrabbed your whole party gets to participate in the worlds fastest beatdowns... PLUS you get two handy earthies to summon to help whopp and earthgrab mobs with you. (which happens a lot)

Dreamspitter
Great Damage vs Evil outsiders as its +5 greater evil outsider bane, and on a crit target looses 1-3 levels. I find myself using this a lot in the sub and in certain parts of the shroud and vale. 1 or two crits and the mob is completely disabled and just useful for target practice, its especially handy when there is a twf weakening rouge in the party with you. A good tactic with high HP mobs is to w/e them until they auto crit then switch to the spitter and drop them in 4 swings.

Shining Crescents
Highest base damage, 2d6 but meh...only has nifty value

+5 maladroit of bonebreaking
+3 weakening of enfeebling
Obviously great but then can be a bit boring.

+5 Transmuting of PG
This is my boss beater. Vs the pt fiend and sulu, it cant be beat for raw damage except by a +3 trans greatever evil outsider or a mineral II.

So whats the right answer... there really isnt one... When the dreamspitter crits and you enervate a mobs its always a fun oooOOOOO.... when the earthgrab goes off and you destroy someone really fast its great too... when that rare lightning goes.. .its truly fun.

***Thoguhts on Radiance II***

Crits happen often enough, but most small hp mobs that can be blinded will probably die from a beating before they are blinded by a radiance II IMHO...it would require a mob with decent hit points before it was super pimp. But that being said... someone make me one. :) And I may actually make one just to see what the hubub's all about.

[rest]

Just some thoughts on my weapons for those who are considering what to make and what to use.

I currently favor several weapons

lightning strike staff
earthgrab staff
dreamspitter
shining cresents
+5 maladroit of bonebreaking
+3 weakening of enfeebling
+5 Transmuting of Pure good

Will touch on the benefits of each and hope it helps you with your decision

Shroud Lightning II staff wtih force hit ritual
Good per hit damage... 6-15 + 3d6 (holy+elec) + 1 (Force) and it rarely decides to proc a ligtning bolt and destroy an enemy. I have found that the lightning even tho its fantastic when it does go off it just doesnt go off nearly enough. I find myself using this mostly for things that need a lot of pounding that are immune to special effects and have no dr. Think red named orthons in VOD. It works fantastic for that.

Earthgrab Staff W/ Force Crit Ritual
Decent per hit damage 6-15 + 2d6 (acid) Shines really well on crits... and since earthgrab is autocrit.....Fantastic for low reflex mobs, elementals, mephits, trogs, casters... It procs maybe 5% of the time or more, and when combined with cleave is fairly destructive. I find myself using this mainly for trash mob beatings, and elementals, since the acid damage is feirce. The thing to remember here is that when earthgrabbed your whole party gets to participate in the worlds fastest beatdowns... PLUS you get two handy earthies to summon to help whopp and earthgrab mobs with you. (which happens a lot)

Dreamspitter
Great Damage vs Evil outsiders as its +5 greater evil outsider bane, and on a crit target looses 1-3 levels. I find myself using this a lot in the sub and in certain parts of the shroud and vale. 1 or two crits and the mob is completely disabled and just useful for target practice, its especially handy when there is a twf weakening rouge in the party with you. A good tactic with high HP mobs is to w/e them until they auto crit then switch to the spitter and drop them in 4 swings.

Shining Crescents
Highest base damage, 2d6 but meh...only has nifty value

+5 maladroit of bonebreaking
+3 weakening of enfeebling
Obviously great but then can be a bit boring.

+5 Transmuting of PG
This is my boss beater. Vs the pt fiend and sulu, it cant be beat for raw damage except by a +3 trans greatever evil outsider or a mineral II.

So whats the right answer... there really isnt one... When the dreamspitter crits and you enervate a mobs its always a fun oooOOOOO.... when the earthgrab goes off and you destroy someone really fast its great too... when that rare lightning goes.. .its truly fun.

***Thoguhts on Radiance II***

Crits happen often enough, but most small hp mobs that can be blinded will probably die from a beating before they are blinded by a radiance II IMHO...it would require a mob with decent hit points before it was super pimp. But that being said... someone make me one. :) And I may actually make one just to see what the hubub's all about.


16 Reaver runs later and still no Dreamspitter :mad:
I have tier 2 of a rad II q-staff built, but I don't have 6 scales to throw at this gal right now. I'll let you know how I like it once I get it finished.

Thanks a lot for the fun build! I really enjoy running this toon. I'm uploading some FRAPS of my attack speed using a haste pot and haste boost and the above with divine power going. Does madstone up your attack speed? I really have no idea.

Vids: Sorry about the poor quality. YouTube didnt like AVIs so I made em into MPGs

With haste, rogue speed boost IV and the acrobat stuff: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4s_zQpY6xyM
All that with Divine Power (16 BAB!): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFzWnsk0t94

[Goldeneye]

That sure is attacking pretty fast.

[GryphonBlade]

How would it work using handwraps and gonly only 13 str for the power attack and the rest for dex and weapon finesse.

[The_Phenx]

16 Reaver runs later and still no Dreamspitter :mad:
I have tier 2 of a rad II q-staff built, but I don't have 6 scales to throw at this gal right now. I'll let you know how I like it once I get it finished.

Thanks a lot for the fun build! I really enjoy running this toon. I'm uploading some FRAPS of my attack speed using a haste pot and haste boost and the above with divine power going. Does madstone up your attack speed? I really have no idea.

Vids: Sorry about the poor quality. YouTube didnt like AVIs so I made em into MPGs

With haste, rogue speed boost IV and the acrobat stuff: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4s_zQpY6xyM
All that with Divine Power (16 BAB!): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFzWnsk0t94


Lol Great Videos... Love the toon name btw.

I should fraps Preying at some point and put it in the main post...

Yes Madstone adds a 20% attack speed boost along with granting a full BAB... (same as DP) Thats why they are a crucial aspect... get as many pairs as you can lol.

Took me a whle to get the spitter too... and I am still working on that 2nd or 3rd set of boots...

[The_Phenx]

How would it work using handwraps and gonly only 13 str for the power attack and the rest for dex and weapon finesse.

You would loose a lot of damage going finesse ... but your to hit would be higher... its a bit of a trade off... I wanted him to be effective even when holding aggro, thats why I made it str based.

handwraps would be fine... you would still retain all the acrobat no slip bonuses.. the sneak attack damage etc... but you would loose the 20% alacrity bonus for staff weilding. Which could be made up by dropping the dragonmarks and taking the thf line and getting the bonus hook attacks those grant...If you want to do a fist striking toon... I would go assasin instead of acrobat... that way you can insta death things.

[Gol]

I've got a character based on this build up to level 10 and just wanted to make a few comments...

Level 20 Build: Dwarf 18 Rog / 1 Pal / 1 Monk
Currently: 9 Rog / 1 Pal

I'll get to 12/1 then take the Monk level, then Rogue to the end.

So, the Paladin level. I know it's not optimal. I absolutely hate leveling without wand whipping, and I get a free point of AC/saves while I'm at it, not to mention Heavy Armor and Martial Weapons (hello Mithral Full Plate and Greataxes). You don't need evasion till VoNs or Gianthold anyway. High AC is better.

My thoughts so far...

Lots of fun to play. I racked up over 100 kills in a stormcleave run with 2 barbarians higher level than me. Granted, they might have sucked, it was a pug, but still. Nobody should be posting 100 kills in SC.
Quarterstaffs will take a back seat until Rogue 12. The first 10% boost just isn't enough to justify using them over a Greataxe. I realize most implementations of this build won't have the proficiency, but I do so I'm using it.
Using a shield and a Dwarven when I need AC. Swapping between +5MBP when I need evasion and +5MFP when I don't.
I'm not making a Radiance stick. I just can't see the justification of using 6 Large Scales for something when 10k on the AH for Weakening of Enfeebling (and Crippling Strike) will do the job just as efficiently (hello quarterstaff crit range), not to mention being more useful to the party. Maladroit of Bone Breaking is also an option. 0 Str/Dex = auto-sneak and they can't cast stuff.
I'll make a Mineral 2 stick for this guy and a couple tier 2 sticks. THFers are cheap, I like that :)

[The_Phenx]

Heh nice man...

The way to get a decent ac.. once you can use the raiments...decent armor bracers... bark pots...

Had a pally nearby the other day...during a hound run, fully boosted and buffed 78 ac :D So once I get the chattering ring and 81 seems to be the tops...for level 16 anyway.

As for wand whipping thats why I went halfling...dragonmarks for the win....

[moorewr]

Thanks for posting this build! I'm working on a strength-based rogue who will go Q-staff and WoTA II. I've been wobbling but the idea now is 13 rogue/6 paladin/1 monk (or maybe 12/7/1 or 12/6/2).

The weapon list is interesting. I think I will have to carry a few non-staff weapons.. vorpal Great axe, at least, but my thoughts have focused on Dreamspitter and weighted...

[The_Phenx]

Neat... be careful tho.. no one knows what acrobat III is going to be yet... wouldn't want you to miss out on something really freakin cool by multiclassing yourself out of it.

And yes I carry a set of vorpal and wounding kamas...

I however can only hope that they include something like WOTA III into the acrobat line.. since acrobats are quarterstaff based.. yet Eladrin taunts us by saying that in the hands of an assasin a quarterstaff can insta kill, only time will tell I guess.

[moorewr]

Neat... be careful tho.. no one knows what acrobat III is going to be yet... wouldn't want you to miss out on something really freakin cool by multiclassing yourself out of it.

And yes I carry a set of vorpal and wounding kamas...

I however can only hope that they include something like WOTA III into the acrobat line.. since acrobats are quarterstaff based.. yet Eladrin taunts us by saying that in the hands of an assasin a quarterstaff can insta kill, only time will tell I guess.

I'm alive to the risk I've accepted, but alea jacta est. I figure having passed up 18 rogue, I may as well go deeper with the multi-classing. Whether I'll think exalted smites and a Paladin PrE were worth it.. well.. we shall see.

[Gol]

Just hit Rog 12 last night... Showtime, Divine Power, Haste Pot, Haste Boost....

Just sick. If only wounding came on quarterstaves :(

[The_Phenx]

Just hit Rog 12 last night... Showtime, Divine Power, Haste Pot, Haste Boost....

Just sick. If only wounding came on quarterstaves :(

I know right? Maybe they will make one... just one for us...

Crippling strike is pretty fun tho.. witha dreamspitter... as soon as the target goes auto crit... oooooOOOOOO and there dead.

You will like madstone boots more than DP 20% more speed Natural Armor +4 and full BAB FTW!!!

[Scalion]

I'm yet another player trying a similar build, but I decided to go to monk level 7 and rogue level 13. I enjoy the monk aspect with having buffs for my party members etc.

One nice thing about my build is the way of the faithful hound enhancements go a long way to help the +to hit that I'm losing by starting with a lower strength.

I started with 14 in all stats except for charisma, then investing future stat points into strength. For feats I have skill focus search & spot, power attack, toughness, and then I'm working towards whirlwind attack at level 15. Imp. crit will probably be my level 18 feat. (I know whirlwind attack might not be worth the investment, but it's worth a shot. I know spring attack is useful and I'll have enough AC that expertise will actually be worth using at times).

I'll have a much higher Concentration than the monk 'splashes' and so I'll be able to make much more use of the finishing moves etc, including the ability to give myself an extra +2 to skills and saves for traps.

[rest]

Lol Great Videos... Love the toon name btw.

I should fraps Preying at some point and put it in the main post...

Yes Madstone adds a 20% attack speed boost along with granting a full BAB... (same as DP) Thats why they are a crucial aspect... get as many pairs as you can lol.

Took me a whle to get the spitter too... and I am still working on that 2nd or 3rd set of boots...

Heh thanks :D

I finally got my dreamspitter and, since we swing soooo fast and so much with this build, I end up enervating stuff to death! It's a lot of fun :D

Oh and +1 to wishing quarterstaves could wound :( I swing so slow with my wounding kamas.

[Gol]

Question regarding monk stance...

Assuming you hit on a 2, I totally understand that Wind Stance is the best. 2.5% alacrity for the win. But if you're missing on a 2... Taking Sun Stance for +2 Strength (+1 attack) means you're hitting on 5% more of your swings. So isn't that inherently better (in that scenario)?

[moorewr]

Question regarding monk stance...

Assuming you hit on a 2, I totally understand that Wind Stance is the best. 2.5% alacrity for the win. But if you're missing on a 2... Taking Sun Stance for +2 Strength (+1 attack) means you're hitting on 5% more of your swings. So isn't that inherently better (in that scenario)?

Same logic as Power Attack - if PA makes you miss you end up behind on DPS. That said it seems like most melee builds hit on every swing by the endgame...

[Gol]

Same logic as Power Attack - if PA makes you miss you end up behind on DPS. That said it seems like most melee builds hit on every swing by the endgame...
Full BAB melee, yes. 3/4 BAB melee (aka, Rogues), not necessarily.

[rimble]

Full BAB melee, yes. 3/4 BAB melee (aka, Rogues), not necessarily.

Yeah, makes me nervous. Just planned out a stick build that is leaning towards 13 Rogue/6 Fighter/1 Barbarian to make up some ToHit and Damage...if WotTA III is just another 10% speed it's likely what I'll do...no point going faster if you can't hit...if it's got a little extra somethin'-somethin' on it I'll reconsider.

[Gol]

Yeah, makes me nervous. Just planned out a stick build that is leaning towards 13 Rogue/6 Fighter/1 Barbarian to make up some ToHit and Damage...if WotTA III is just another 10% speed it's likely what I'll do...no point going faster if you can't hit...if it's got a little extra somethin'-somethin' on it I'll reconsider.
Well, when it is a problem, DP clickies take care of it. I've grown accustomed to DP clickies when doing shroud runs. My Bard has over 20 clicks of it, and both of my Clerics have it loaded all the time.

[The_Phenx]

Yeah, makes me nervous. Just planned out a stick build that is leaning towards 13 Rogue/6 Fighter/1 Barbarian to make up some ToHit and Damage...if WotTA III is just another 10% speed it's likely what I'll do...no point going faster if you can't hit...if it's got a little extra somethin'-somethin' on it I'll reconsider.

I have almost no issues hitting...and leave power attack on 95% of the time. Especially on raids theres almost always a bard around and if not... tumbleweed grants a +2 ... or you could use the spectral gloves for the same effect.

You can also switch to fire stance as mentioned earlier for an additional +1 But...

Wind stance stacks for 3.5% I believe... and if your at say +28th and additional +1 is < that.

Your best bet is to use greater banes, divine power clickies, madstone boots... or a combination thereof.

That is why my favorite subterranea weapon is the dreamspitter...and seeing as the new mod will be almost entirely evil outsiders, I imagine that I will continue to use it quite often, and will be one of the strongest weapons I have.

I love running around and hearing "whos enervating the hell out of everything?"

[Gol]

Wind stance stacks for 3.5% I believe... and if your at say +28th and additional +1 is < that.Wind stance is 2.5%. Not guessing. +1 on top of +28 isn't the way to look at it at all, either. Either a natural 2 misses or it doesn't. If a natural 2 misses, that +1 means your hit-rate goes up by 5%. Ie, you used to need a 4 to hit, now you need a 3 (so you hit 18/20 instead of 17/20). 5% > 2.5%. Like the guy that replied to me said, it's just like the PA debate. If you miss, you're better off to turn PA off.

[Gol]

So, I've been futzing around a bit with a spreadsheet and crunching some numbers while the servers are down...

Verses a single opponent, a Greensteel Greataxe does 93-101% of the damage a Greensteel Quarterstaff will depending on how much of the time you get in Sneak Attack. If you're getting 100% sneak in, a GS GA is 93.3% as effective as the quarterstaff. If you get 0% sneak in, the GS GA is 1% MORE effective. For something like Harry in Shroud who has 50% fortification, the GS GA is 96.3% as effective.

This made me step back a bit and crunch the numbers for dual wielding Rapiers. I mean really, this build has the Dex for GTWF, at least run the math, right?

Against a single opponent, dual GS Rapiers do 135% of the DPS of a GS QS, not to mention procing Radiance 2 at least almost 3 times as often. Sure, you have to get twice as much gear, but dayum.

Granted, this assumes GTWF which many of us can't get until level 18. But even if you can only get ITWF, it's 120%. I don't know about you, but I'm not sneezing at an extra 20%. Not to mention better stat damaging, better banishing/smiting/wounding/puncturing/etc... It's all about how much time you want to spend grinding for shroud ingredients, IMO. The qstaff is much cheaper (only need a radiance 2, mineral 2 can be replaced by a good transmuter). Loot gen qstaves are much cheaper too.

Sorry to wreck the train, Phenx, but running the spreadsheet was quite an eye-opener for me. I'm switching, myself :(

edit: at which point the Monk level, which I didn't take until I hit level 14 LAST NIGHT, is a complete and total waste. :mad: :mad: :mad:

[moorewr]

Ouch, Gol.

I'm sticking with THF & Staves.. two reasons.. everyone else has a TWF tempest.. can't compete with that. Plus it's boring, very boring, to be one of the crowd..

Also a THF might be optimal for certain bosses and mobs in Mod 9.. depending on their immunities and DR (when I ran the numbers I came up with DR>25 && DR<50 as the THF optimal range).

[rimble]

Ouch, Gol.

I'm sticking with THF & Staves.. two reasons.. everyone else has a TWF tempest.. can't compete with that. Plus it's boring, very boring, to be one of the crowd..

Also a THF might be optimal for certain bosses and mobs in Mod 9.. depending on their immunities and DR (when I ran the numbers I came up with DR>25 && DR<50 as the THF optimal range).

I agree. I feel like I was an early discoverer of the Ranger/Monk cheese, and abandoned him at level 11 when I saw all the identical builds coming up behind.

Also, THF equations should hopefully change a bit in Mod 9 with the special effects on glancing blow stuff. We have no idea how much, but it should at least close the gap a little on that 135% number, if you can work that into your build. My version of this will likely be WF for this reason, though this Halfling is a bit out of luck.

[Gol]

I agree. I feel like I was an early discoverer of the Ranger/Monk cheese, and abandoned him at level 11 when I saw all the identical builds coming up behind.

Also, THF equations should hopefully change a bit in Mod 9 with the special effects on glancing blow stuff. We have no idea how much, but it should at least close the gap a little on that 135% number, if you can work that into your build. My version of this will likely be WF for this reason, though this Halfling is a bit out of luck.
Well, the basic problem is hit-based procs. Namely, sneak attack. If you're getting sneak attack in, there's no way around the fact that it's going off twice as often when you're swinging 2 weapons. Until the DR X/- tops 20ish, yeah, THF just plain loses, no matter what the flavor.

Anyway, I love the build, the flavor, and the change of pace. Kudos for thinking outside the box, Phenx. I personally can't give up the #s, though.

[D'rin]

The only differance will come in mod 9 when thf gets weapon effects on glancing blows. Now will this make up the differance completely, no but it will help. Especially if you are WF and have the enhancement line to increase the chance even more.

[The_Phenx]

Well, the basic problem is hit-based procs. Namely, sneak attack. If you're getting sneak attack in, there's no way around the fact that it's going off twice as often when you're swinging 2 weapons. Until the DR X/- tops 20ish, yeah, THF just plain loses, no matter what the flavor.

Anyway, I love the build, the flavor, and the change of pace. Kudos for thinking outside the box, Phenx. I personally can't give up the #s, though.

Of course a twf is going to do more puncturing sneaks etc.
But you just cant equate 6 mobs and cleave or glancing blow damage into your equations.
Mod 9 will also add effects to glacing blows as stated by others.
Acrobat III also has unknown bonuses that will come too.

That being said I know this will never be the highest dps toon available. It holds its own nicely, and its the fastest swing rate of all THF weapons.

Come mod 9 I will more than likely be swapping around to get the THF chain back... depending on the proc rates of course.

All that aside it was built for the flavor. Leme tell you that flavor is mighty tasty too.

[vasquiu]

Phenx, I play a similar build like urs, and is very funny to play.

With tempest rangers in all places, this build is a fresh way to play a DPS toon. I am leveling a drow 12 Rogue / 2 Monk / 6 Warrior and now is level 13 and I have lots of fun with him. I pretend to take 3 toughness feats at least to have enough HPs for high level content.

Someone knows if Jorgundal' Collar (http://ddo.enterwiki.net/page/Jorgundal%27s_Collar) stacks with the alacrity buffs of monk + acrobat I and II?

[The_Phenx]

Phenx, I play a similar build like urs, and is very funny to play.

With tempest rangers in all places, this build is a fresh way to play a DPS toon. I am leveling a drow 12 Rogue / 2 Monk / 6 Warrior and now is level 13 and I have lots of fun with him. I pretend to take 3 toughness feats at least to have enough HPs for high level content.

Someone knows if Jorgundal' Collar (http://ddo.enterwiki.net/page/Jorgundal%27s_Collar) stacks with the alacrity buffs of monk + acrobat I and II?

I wouldnt waste your feats on three toughnesses... 1 should suffice. Prey is at 368 hp and will be well over 400 when he hits 20th. You would be better served with combat related feats.

Yes Jorgundals collar stacks with monk air and acrobat II... but not haste.

It does however get you close to a hasted speed.

Monk Acro I II _+ jorgundals = 40%

Monk Acro I II + Haste = 48.5%

So its not abd to have... if you are running solo withoutt a haste clickie.

[The_Phenx]

Acquired Tumbleweed FINALLY... Gear updated.

I have also been asked to post skills, which I will get around to this week hopefully. :)

[vasquiu]

Thank u for the reply, is good to know that the collar stacks with the acrobat alacrities.

I am working in these feats in the build:

Feats:
- Toughness (M).
- Power Attack (M).
- Dodge (M). *
- Improved Critical: Blunt Weapons.
- Weapon Focus: Blunt Weapons.
- Stunning Blow.
- Cleave.
- Great Cleave.
- Iron Will (M).
- Great Fortitude.
- Toughness (M).
- Toughness (M).
- Weapon Specialization: Blunt Weapons.

I expect that are enough for combat ( I always go with power attack on) :D

[The_Phenx]

Thank u for the reply, is good to know that the collar stacks with the acrobat alacrities.

I am working in these feats in the build:

Feats:
- Toughness (M).
- Power Attack (M).
- Dodge (M). *
- Improved Critical: Blunt Weapons.
- Weapon Focus: Blunt Weapons.
- Stunning Blow.
- Cleave.
- Great Cleave.
- Iron Will (M).
- Great Fortitude.
- Toughness (M).
- Toughness (M).
- Weapon Specialization: Blunt Weapons.

I expect that are enough for combat ( I always go with power attack on) :D

Thats a good list... I don't know what race your rolling with... but if your going halfling Iron Will is a waste...their enhancements are cheaper...

You will LOVE stunning blow with a 5% weighted staff...

As a thought... since you are already taking dodge...you could switch out Iron will...and one of your toughness's and take mobility and spring attack... this would be a HUGE boon with this build since the To hit is already on the low side...and you would be able to run amuck...

OR you could go with the THF (instead of the focuses or...etc) line since in mod 9 the galncing blows will proc effects.

[vasquiu]

Arrg the temptation to take mobility + sping attack is hard!! I have taken Iron will because the toon is drow (I expect that in future Turbine will fix their SR) to maximize STR. The idea is taking stalwart defender enhancement for the ac increase benefits and +2 STR boost.

[The_Phenx]

Interesting...warforged would give you the str and the enhancement line to glancing blows however...

[MoH-Patrol]

so OP, all the stats you have given can be applied to a WF or are those strictly Halfling?

[Blind_Skwerl]

I have been wondering about that, too. How would you do this one, warforged stye?

[The_Phenx]

so OP, all the stats you have given can be applied to a WF or are those strictly Halfling?

Those stats were for a halfling.

Its debateable still who will do more dps.

Halflings will do more Sneak Damage with the guile line, have better saves, a slightly higher to hit and ac...

Warforged pick up immunities, lil higher strength, and the glancing blow enhancements (who knows what that will be)...

Leme tinker with the WF numbers a lil.. see what I can come up with tonight...

[Sillk]

FYI, I posted my take on a Warforged Acrobat the other day. You might get some ideas for reference on how your take on it would be: http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=2168367&postcount=11

[The_Phenx]

FYI, I posted my take on a Warforged Acrobat the other day. You might get some ideas for reference on how your take on it would be: http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=2168367&postcount=11

My biggest issue at the moment is the change in tomes coming in mod 9.

In order ot keep all the best rouge skills maxed you really need a 14 int - 16 int after level 1... just is going to be kinda impossible now...with the way things are setup...I will play with the skills and see where it leads...some things will have to fall by the wayside a hair during the monk levels.

[Blind_Skwerl]

My biggest issue at the moment is the change in tomes coming in mod 9.

Didn't hear about this one. What is it?

[Sillk]

Since you didn’t list your skill choices in the original build, I’m assuming you had put skill points into Jump. You’ll have at least 10 points per Rogue level so I think it’s a safe assumption.

If it’s just the skills you’re concerned about, I’d target Jump. Most characters can get a decent Jump, and you can make up the 7 lost skill points (-2 Int vs Tomed) to Jump whenever you activate Acrobat (Acrobat I give +10 to Jump). Since Jump tops out in the 40s anyway, it wouldn’t really hurt to have a low Jump for the first few levels. In non-Rogue levels, target Search & Disable only and make up for it in the next Rogue level.

Where I think you may have trouble is the -1 (vs having a +2 tome) to Search & Disable, since they are Int based skills. Elite content for the first few levels will be a little more difficult. You’ll really want to have the bets Search & Disable goggles you can have at that level. You can make up for this by taking Rogue Search/Disable I & II and be on par with all the splash builds in trapsmithing. Once you get the tome, you’re on par with a Mod 8 build and you could even respect the enhancements out of the Search/Disable if you weren’t going in that direction anyway.

Your concern is one of the first I've seen to look ahead into Mod 9 for the min level tomes and apply the effect of the change in the build.

[Blind_Skwerl]

ahh, tomes have a min level in mod 9. What is the min level on +2 tomes?

[Original]

ahh, tomes have a min level in mod 9. What is the min level on +2 tomes?

+2 tomes - min lvl 7

[The_Phenx]

Didn't hear about this one. What is it?

From what I understand +1 tomes go to min lvl 3 +2 are min lvl 7

[The_Phenx]

Since you didn’t list your skill choices in the original build, I’m assuming you had put skill points into Jump. You’ll have at least 10 points per Rogue level so I think it’s a safe assumption.

If it’s just the skills you’re concerned about, I’d target Jump. Most characters can get a decent Jump, and you can make up the 7 lost skill points (-2 Int vs Tomed) to Jump whenever you activate Acrobat (Acrobat I give +10 to Jump). Since Jump tops out in the 40s anyway, it wouldn’t really hurt to have a low Jump for the first few levels. In non-Rogue levels, target Search & Disable only and make up for it in the next Rogue level.

Where I think you may have trouble is the -1 (vs having a +2 tome) to Search & Disable, since they are Int based skills. Elite content for the first few levels will be a little more difficult. You’ll really want to have the bets Search & Disable goggles you can have at that level. You can make up for this by taking Rogue Search/Disable I & II and be on par with all the splash builds in trapsmithing. Once you get the tome, you’re on par with a Mod 8 build and you could even respect the enhancements out of the Search/Disable if you weren’t going in that direction anyway.

Your concern is one of the first I've seen to look ahead into Mod 9 for the min level tomes and apply the effect of the change in the build.

Ya I have to post up all the final skill points...what I put into what.. and why...I will probably do some shifting all in all for Mod 9 to the build...Just been busy the last couple weeks and slacking :)

[comotose]

I am just curious. Would it really hurt this build alot to go 13 rogue/1monk/6fighter? I was thinking about the Kensai enhancements for the QS once mod 9 hits. You still have nearly the same speed increase but it opens up weapon spec. later on as well as the power surge and such.

[The_Phenx]

I am doing 18/2 based on the thought process that acrobat III will be awesome... that of course will be re-evaluated once they let us know.

Oh and dropped great cleave for stunning blow and a 5% weighted shocking burst staff.... autocrit + auto sneak + shocking burst + force crit.. = stupid silly damage....and its pretty fun for 1 on 1 battles...

[Himkano]

I was making this build on char generator, and maybe i missed something, but it seems like you don't get acrobat II until level 14 or 16, which means you are playing most of the game without the key ability...

I've read the posts, and noted your progress reports, so it seems like you are doing ok all the way up, but how? What am I missing, or did I just totally misread something?

[Nikorr123]

but it seems like you don't get acrobat II until level 14 or 16, which means you are playing most of the game without the key ability...



Most of the /important parts of this/ game happens currently at 14-16

So you get the ability when it really matters.

[The_Phenx]

Yep your 2 levels behind for picking up acrobat II compared to a full rouge.. but the benefits are pretty outstanding.

[Blind_Skwerl]

I realy want to start one of these. Here's hoping I can get a +2 int tome before mod 9!

[The_Phenx]

I know I haven't updated in a while.

So here is whats been going on.

I swapped out great cleave for stunning blow, and picked up a +2 holy 5% weighted staff and a +1 shocking burst 5% weighted.

they KICK A**... for trash mobs (even orthons in the shroud) Its one click, and auto sneak attack + auto crit. So your doing 150+ pts per swing + the -2 str from crippling strike on each hit, so when the mob recovers from being stunned, you still are owning it. PLus i have seen multiple stuns when using cleave...

There are some mobs for shure that will resist, but not many.

In air stance with a 26 base str (**** elusive +3 tome) your looking at a dc 28 fort save, AND you also get a 5% chance to stun them anyway by just swinging. Dc can be raised with fire stance...

On the super high HP mobs, ill stun them, get them to auto crit, then drop them with the dreamspitter, just for that ooooOOOOOO sound.

So If you feel like playing I reccomend it, its as or more efficient than a 3x acid for trash mobs, and decidedly more so than a lightning II. (except against elementals).

In fact you could get away with having one elemental, one alignment, and 1 mineral II as your only 3 needed weapons.

Food for thought....


We also had a response from Eladrin regarding some future for the Acrobat...

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=178681

[moorewr]

Good thoughts. I'm definitely leaning towards stunning blow & dreamspitter myself when I get there on my build. With the changes coming to W/P, auto-crit situations plus dreamspitter will be a really nice thing to have around.

[Strakeln]

I haven't read the whole thread, so I'm just gonna go ahead and ask and hope it hasn't been addressed already:

Any way you put it, I don't see how the DPS of this build wouldn't be dramatically improved by switching to TWF. I know, 10% speed boost with staves and all, but +10% alacrity != +100% swings. Yep, there's also the power attack angle, but since a rogue's main source of damage is sneak attack, the extra damage from using a two handed weapon w/power attack is quickly overwhelmed.

Is it just the fun factor? Or am I missing some kind of uber quarterstaff trait?

[Emili]

I haven't read the whole thread, so I'm just gonna go ahead and ask and hope it hasn't been addressed already:

Any way you put it, I don't see how the DPS of this build wouldn't be dramatically improved by switching to TWF. I know, 10% speed boost with staves and all, but +10% alacrity != +100% swings. Yep, there's also the power attack angle, but since a rogue's main source of damage is sneak attack, the extra damage from using a two handed weapon w/power attack is quickly overwhelmed.

Is it just the fun factor? Or am I missing some kind of uber quarterstaff trait?

Peeks in, oh acrobats and staves? Yet not quite the way I envisioned. ;) :D

[moorewr]

I haven't read the whole thread, so I'm just gonna go ahead and ask and hope it hasn't been addressed already:

Any way you put it, I don't see how the DPS of this build wouldn't be dramatically improved by switching to TWF. I know, 10% speed boost with staves and all, but +10% alacrity != +100% swings. Yep, there's also the power attack angle, but since a rogue's main source of damage is sneak attack, the extra damage from using a two handed weapon w/power attack is quickly overwhelmed.

Is it just the fun factor? Or am I missing some kind of uber quarterstaff trait?

Um.. maybe we're all praying they will be red/purple mobs with 30<DR<50 we can't circumvent? (Since that's where THF would shine).

I guess a break from TWF and an excuse to go Thief-Acrobat II is what motivated me (plus my dreamspitter will be 20% faster than yours.. er unless you are a TWF thief-acro, in which case it will be same speed but I will get more glancing blows).

[BelVic]

I started simular build about 6 months ago. He was a little bit different 10 rog/5 pal/1 monk but fast speed qstaff idea simular.
At low lvls up to 10 I loved it...was best dps toon I made before. Still rememeber how we duo WW elite at lvl 3 or 4 with another rogue when other ppl in pug died and recalled.

At mid-higher lvls when ppl start using vorpals/wounding weapon on mobs it's start getting less fun. I can still use kamas for same purpose but it feels no so fast and close range kinda make me upset.

For dps on named bosses it's still doing ok. ( I have 4 smites and divine sacrifice for extra dmg) --- will be knight of chalice in mod 9.

Decided to change great cleave also -- stunning blow calculate not very high dc. On my barb I can stun orthons in shroud 90% with dc 38+4 ( my debuff) =42 average. So anything lower 35 was under question...still good for low fort save mobs I guess.
So I changed it to improved trip as I took combat expertise anyway. Dc 35 on this. Still looking for maladroit of vertigo 8 or 10 qstaff to combine 2 in 1. Can trip most devils and sometimes orthons. ( giants are very hard to trip with high str it seems)

Gonna need to make some displacement clickies ( going to 60 ac after finish DT docent but mobs still hit often).

Testing new weapons. Gonna try to make Trap the Soul qstaff to test if it can replace vorpal or not ( not enough information on forums from ppl who really tried it). And may be slay living one for mobs with low fort save like casters.

Still low on UMD around 30 right now but working on improve it so I can use reconstruct scrolls.

[moorewr]

I started simular build about 6 months ago. He was a little bit different 10 rog/5 pal/1 monk but fast speed qstaff idea simular.
At low lvls up to 10 I loved it...was best dps toon I made before. Still rememeber how we duo WW elite at lvl 3 or 4 with another rogue when other ppl in pug died and recalled.

At mid-higher lvls when ppl start using vorpals/wounding weapon on mobs it's start getting less fun. I can still use kamas for same purpose but it feels no so fast and close range kinda make me upset.

For dps on named bosses it's still doing ok. ( I have 4 smites and divine sacrifice for extra dmg) --- will be knight of chalice in mod 9.

Decided to change great cleave also -- stunning blow calculate not very high dc. On my barb I can stun orthons in shroud 90% with dc 38+4 ( my debuff) =42 average. So anything lower 35 was under question...still good for low fort save mobs I guess.
So I changed it to improved trip as I took combat expertise anyway. Dc 35 on this. Still looking for maladroit of vertigo 8 or 10 qstaff to combine 2 in 1. Can trip most devils and sometimes orthons. ( giants are very hard to trip with high str it seems)

Gonna need to make some displacement clickies ( going to 60 ac after finish DT docent but mobs still hit often).

Testing new weapons. Gonna try to make Trap the Soul qstaff to test if it can replace vorpal or not ( not enough information on forums from ppl who really tried it). And may be slay living one for mobs with low fort save like casters.

Still low on UMD around 30 right now but working on improve it so I can use reconstruct scrolls.

Sounds like our builds are on the same track. I'm currently 7 rogue/4 pal on my way to 13r/6p/1m w/ knight of the chalice.

There's no way to get a build like this to an effective AC. I think CE is a waste.. displacement is a fine idea, but my focus has been on maxing diplomacy for aggro management.

I have settled on power quarterstaves now that I am past level 10 - and a vorpal great axe. Not perfect, but it is still putting out decent DPS while you wait for your '20' to come up. No kamas for me.

I will have to run the numbers on stunning blow.. concerned to see your feedback, but high str+weighted+enhancements seems like all I can do there.

[D'rin]

I haven't read the whole thread, so I'm just gonna go ahead and ask and hope it hasn't been addressed already:

Any way you put it, I don't see how the DPS of this build wouldn't be dramatically improved by switching to TWF. I know, 10% speed boost with staves and all, but +10% alacrity != +100% swings. Yep, there's also the power attack angle, but since a rogue's main source of damage is sneak attack, the extra damage from using a two handed weapon w/power attack is quickly overwhelmed.

Is it just the fun factor? Or am I missing some kind of uber quarterstaff trait?

Well first of the alacrity from acrobat only works on staves and with tier 2 it is 20%. With windstance you are gaining 30% total. If you are talking about using kamas with windstance you have 2 things going against you the low damage of kamas and the bad crit range. Some of this is made up for the q-stick due to power attack and glancing blows. q-staves have the same bad damage base and crit range but you get more str bonus and glancing blows. Come mod 9 with the changes to glancing blows in regard to thf and wf it will narrow the gap a little more.
I am definitly looking at switching out a feat for stunning blow. With wf tactics it should be really fun.

[The_Phenx]

I haven't read the whole thread, so I'm just gonna go ahead and ask and hope it hasn't been addressed already:

Any way you put it, I don't see how the DPS of this build wouldn't be dramatically improved by switching to TWF. I know, 10% speed boost with staves and all, but +10% alacrity != +100% swings. Yep, there's also the power attack angle, but since a rogue's main source of damage is sneak attack, the extra damage from using a two handed weapon w/power attack is quickly overwhelmed.

Is it just the fun factor? Or am I missing some kind of uber quarterstaff trait?

Heh...hey man didnt see you poking in there.

This was designed as a flavor build to make staffs kick some butt, since I think quarterstaves are the neatest animation in the game... and is a hell of a lot of fun

Its goal... to make the highest swing rate THF build possible, above average dps, with a respectible ac.

THe alacrity is a LOT higher than what you think...Tier I and II both give speed boosts, with the monk air stance added in and all the acro bonuses, it works out to be like 23.5% alacrity bonus permanent (while hasted), immunity to slippery stuff.. a fairly high sustainable ac, a very high boostable ac, good save hit points etc.

Yes a twf rouge does x swings vs a single target.

But a thf rouge with cleave does Base + sneak to an entire group of critters, plus glancing blows...and at a very fast rate of speed, especially since I made him str based, so the dps would hold its own even with aggro.

If you wanna see how fast it goes, shoot me a tell in game some time and I will demo for ya.

[The_Phenx]

So with the new changes to THF I have decided to.... drop the dragonmarks and go with the full THF line...big surprise :D

This wont effect me too much. With the raid loot I have acquired I have a 35 umd and with a shroud item (or sos set of clothes) I can pick up 3-6 more really easy. SO I will be able ot flawlessly work heal scrolls.

And I will pick up lots of extra damage, and all the effects off the glancing blows.

Once I get the switch all the way done I will report back with impressions.

Oh and btw... Stunning blow still rocks...:D So I use that or my 3x earth staff for trash...if its a low reflex mob... earth...high relfex... stun...

Stinks I can do greensteel deconstruction, or I would disassemble my lightning stick...make it a mineral II and have that as my boss beater...shrug live and learn...

[Blind_Skwerl]

Ok, finally got my +2 int tome. Trying to figure out where to spend the skill points. Do I need diplomacy on this guy? Hide and move silent? What's the deal?

[The_Phenx]

Ok, finally got my +2 int tome. Trying to figure out where to spend the skill points. Do I need diplomacy on this guy? Hide and move silent? What's the deal?

Well I can tell you this.

Diplomacy is really useful for jumping in...cleaving diplo great cleave then repeat...But as levels progress I find myself using it less... even tho its a handy thing to have.

I have invested in hide and move silently as well and find them a nice fun flavorful addition to the build.

That being said I always thought intimidate would be really fun to have on him to control trash mobs... especially since his AC is high enough that being surrounded and cleaving is a good thing, and I may put some points into it for lvl 17-20... not shure yet tho.

If you want to wait a day or two I will post his skill pt distribution and how I did it tonight or tomorrow... I just have to write it down... especially since I changed his feats and enhancements around.

[Blind_Skwerl]

Ok cool. This is the first time I will have made a rogue in a loooong time. There are lots of things I don't remember like where tumble caps, when should I stop with open lock, do I bother with spot, etc. I do like having the hide/move silent in there. Fun for soloing.

[The_Phenx]

Ok cool. This is the first time I will have made a rogue in a loooong time. There are lots of things I don't remember like where tumble caps, when should I stop with open lock, do I bother with spot, etc. I do like having the hide/move silent in there. Fun for soloing.

THe Hide/move silent is also VERY handy for the lever in the subterranea that opens up VOD... you can just walk past all of them... and if you fall off.. go into sneak on the way down and your a-ok.

I carry a lot of situational gear... tumble.. jump...balance...search... spot... hide... you get the idea...

Tumble aim for 36 with an item to have fun doing backflips...(but buffed in showtime I have seen over a 70 in reaver so you take maybe 3 or 4 pts of damage from reverse gravity)

The Skill point setup is great to the point where you will be able to put max ranks into all the standard rouge skills & Umd.

[The_Phenx]

Per multiple requests I put up a skill breakdown. I had also mentioned that given it to do over I would also take intimidate... I stand by that and would re-assign some skill points into that to make it viable.. but how you guys do it is up to you...no way am I re-rolling.

I also have completed the swap out of dragonmarks to THF, so I reassigned the action points to pick up some more sneak attack and boost my relfex saves up a bit more.

41 titans...still no chattering ring...:mad:

[tc12]

Can you add your intended level split for 20th to the OP? Sorry if I missed it in the long thread...

[The_Phenx]

Shure... ill tell you here tho.

I plan on going 18/2 rouge monk. Kind of a gamble, but I am planning on Acrobat III to be something very cool and don't want to miss out.

Hope there is a dev out there watching over me lol.

[The_Phenx]

Oh and I know come mod 9 and the changes to tomes there will be 1 less skill point between levels 1 and 7...I would just reallocate some points around from the less important skills to make up for it.

[The_Phenx]

Feats list updated to reflect a 20th level build :).

Umd was taken as a choice so that I could flawlessly use heal scrolls by lvl 20 without shroud gear to assist.

Some may go a different route...great cleave is still an option...as is dropping Umd and cleave and taking Combat Expertise and Improved Trip (which first nicely with the flavor of a staff user)...CE is great for those dear god iimagonnadie moments Hit that and uncanny dodge and your +11 to ac in a matter of secconds...

[VowWoefist]

So I have a few questions/thoughts and would appreciate your input.

Feats the way I see them at the moment:

Lvl 1 THF
Lvl 3 Cleave Power Attack(Bonus)
Lvl 4 Toughness(Bonus)
Lvl 6 Great Cleave
Lvl 9 ITHF
Lvl 12 Imp Crit-Bludgeon Crippling Strike(Bonus)
Lvl 15 Stunning Blow Improved Evasion(Bonus)
Lvl 18 GTHF

Questions:
1) Will Stunning Blow be useful if I take at lvl 15?
2) Took Greater THF at lvl 18 since the ddo character planner does not show a BAB of+11. Didn’t u say it is possible to take at 15? (If so, would take GTHF at 15 and maybe CE at 18)
3) How much of a difference is it in terms of gameplay if I take Great Cleave at 6 instead of Stunning Blow? (Guess I am thinking GC is passive and SB is active and may not always work, so trying to get you thoughts from actual usage)

By the way, the Feats shown for levels 1, 3 and 4 have to be taken in that order. I don’t think the order you listed they would be available. For example, Cleave being the 4th feat would be the monk bonus feat at lvl 4 and it is not a selectable choice.

And one Skill question - Can you elaborate on your earlier post that you would have taken Intimidate and why? I was thinking that you did not want the aggro in order to get the big sneak attack damage, so think I am missing something.

THANKS!

[The_Phenx]

So I have a few questions/thoughts and would appreciate your input.

Feats the way I see them at the moment:

Lvl 1 THF
Lvl 3 Cleave Power Attack(Bonus)
Lvl 4 Toughness(Bonus)
Lvl 6 Great Cleave
Lvl 9 ITHF
Lvl 12 Imp Crit-Bludgeon Crippling Strike(Bonus)
Lvl 15 Stunning Blow Improved Evasion(Bonus)
Lvl 18 GTHF

Questions:
1) Will Stunning Blow be useful if I take at lvl 15?
2) Took Greater THF at lvl 18 since the ddo character planner does not show a BAB of+11. Didn’t u say it is possible to take at 15? (If so, would take GTHF at 15 and maybe CE at 18)
3) How much of a difference is it in terms of gameplay if I take Great Cleave at 6 instead of Stunning Blow? (Guess I am thinking GC is passive and SB is active and may not always work, so trying to get you thoughts from actual usage)

By the way, the Feats shown for levels 1, 3 and 4 have to be taken in that order. I don’t think the order you listed they would be available. For example, Cleave being the 4th feat would be the monk bonus feat at lvl 4 and it is not a selectable choice.

And one Skill question - Can you elaborate on your earlier post that you would have taken Intimidate and why? I was thinking that you did not want the aggro in order to get the big sneak attack damage, so think I am missing something.

THANKS!

Heh...I am busted... When I listed the feats it was post creation and Fred has not been very helpful in my going back...I tend to do my builds on the fly...I am going to steal your list if you don't mind... :D

BAB is 10 @ lvl 15 so GTHF has to happen at 18th...you are correct.

When I made that statement way back then I was unaware that the Full BAB of a centered monk did not count for calculating BAB for a feat. SO while his BAB was +11 2 lvl 15 while centered its only BAB 10 as far as the game is concerned.

Both Great Cleave and Stunning blow have thier merits. Stunning blow shines against single mobs, and even if they save the 5% on the staff will tend to get them (no save vs that) I see about a 50-60% rate of stunning landing even in the shroud. This would increase if I could ever get my stinkin +3 tome.

Great Cleave is fantastic in group fighting...cleave diplo great cleave diplo...etc you get the idea...just over time I felt that it was redundant...Didn't seem to be enough large groups to warrant it, and in the trash mob world I wanted a way to disable a mob for not just myself but the whole group.

That being said you can cleave and great cleave with a 5% weighted staff and have great results as well. Think of it as an acrobats vorpal 5% chance to disable and kill a mob.

Shroud earthgrab staff has similar results, except its reflex based instead of fort. Radiance works nicely as well. 10% to go auto S/A and after a few hits with crippling strike your at auto crit there as well.

Its all in how you want to handle them and the crafting costs your willing to incur. Next I am going to make and try cleave/great cleave + radiance staff and give opinions about that. But that will be post mod 9.

So really its all how you want to approach it....and if you can get your str high enough to make the stunning dc worthwile.

Intimidate...yes the point is to do S/A damage, and diplo works great for that, there are just situations where it would have been nice to have to use to control a mob. You have the AC to not get hit so it would be nice to use it... just a personal thought with no data to back it up :). But you will be getting and holding aggro a lot... so be ready for it.

[Pittminion]

Tumble aim for 36 with an item to have fun doing backflips...(but buffed in showtime I have seen over a 70 in reaver so you take maybe 3 or 4 pts of damage from reverse gravity)With a charge and somebody tossing tumble on me, I've topped 100 in reaver. 1 pt of damage sometimes 2 when he pitches you up in the air. My boots are ff/10 tumble currently. Which gets switched out on the fly with my dp clickies. i've been collecting them and trading for boot versions just to try and have some semblance of order. I swear that **** reaver has it out for me. No loot except for the damned bracers (still trying to get ac bracers and GR outfit.)

[The_Phenx]

Heh...damned reaver.. took me 40 runs to get the Head of good fortune.

And a shoutout to Aussie for hooking me up with ac 8 bracers FINALLY!!! for a measly 500k :D

Oh and the feat swap is done... seeing 17-22 pts per glancing blow.

And in certain situations I like the heal scroll better than the dragonmarks... mid fight its not as good, but its unlimited...

[rest]

So the original intent with going halfling was for the healing dragonmarks. Since you're going to swap out (or have already) your DM feats for THF feats, do you think a different race would server you better? WF perhaps to take advantage of the power attack enhancements? Or are the other pluses of being a halfling still making you glad you build like you did? What about a dwarf? I'm probably not going to roll another of these as 1.) I am out of slots at the moment and 2.) q-staves got rare and expensive since I leveled up :p

I don't run Thwaak too much anymore.. (been gearing up a new sorc who finally got fun when she could FoD stuff :D ) so I'm not sure if I want to swap out for THF feats. Currently my self buffed UMD is only 36 (with boost) so I don't have no-fail heal scrolls yet. I'd LOVE to get the gloves from titan, and a 6 cha skill second shroud item would be fantastic, but I haven't even hit 20 runs on her yet for the cleansing stone. I got lucky and pulled the Head of Good Fortune before my 40th Reaver.

[The_Phenx]

So the original intent with going halfling was for the healing dragonmarks. Since you're going to swap out (or have already) your DM feats for THF feats, do you think a different race would server you better? WF perhaps to take advantage of the power attack enhancements? Or are the other pluses of being a halfling still making you glad you build like you did? What about a dwarf? I'm probably not going to roll another of these as 1.) I am out of slots at the moment and 2.) q-staves got rare and expensive since I leveled up :p


Yes the original intent was for healing marks. But it has several other advantages...which are nothing to scoff at.

+1 ac
+1 to hit
+1 to all saves
Access to Halfling Guile enhancements for more S/A Damage.
Access to Halfling Dex
Access to Halfling Luck Enhancements for up to +3 more to each save

The warforged has power attack Enhancements
thf glancing blows
immunities while being
harder to heal
-1 to -3 less to hit. (if I forgot something sorry I don't play trees lol)

So boiled down...

Halflings are a little more survivable and better at Sneak Attack Damage... Warforged are better at direct damage.

I think I still would have gone Halfling just because I like them better, But its all a choice, I have seen a few WF versions that are pretty cool all around.

As for quarterstaves... yep.. I can't find them anywhere anymore... they used to be easy... last time I post a build I tell ya... :D


Oh and the deciding factor of swapping out was when I finally got the gloves from Titan, so I knew I had reliable self healing to replace my dragonmarks...so why not go for the extra dps.

To some folks the ability to self heal is no big deal so they wont mind at all.

[The_Phenx]

Feats list updated fully

Thanks VowWoefist

[rest]

Yes the original intent was for healing marks. But it has several other advantages...which are nothing to scoff at.

+1 ac
+1 to hit
+1 to all saves
Access to Halfling Guile enhancements for more S/A Damage.
Access to Halfling Dex
Access to Halfling Luck Enhancements for up to +3 more to each save

The warforged has power attack Enhancements
thf glancing blows
immunities while being
harder to heal
-1 to -3 less to hit. (if I forgot something sorry I don't play trees lol)

So boiled down...

Halflings are a little more survivable and better at Sneak Attack Damage... Warforged are better at direct damage.

I think I still would have gone Halfling just because I like them better, But its all a choice, I have seen a few WF versions that are pretty cool all around.

As for quarterstaves... yep.. I can't find them anywhere anymore... they used to be easy... last time I post a build I tell ya... :D


Oh and the deciding factor of swapping out was when I finally got the gloves from Titan, so I knew I had reliable self healing. To some folks the ability to self heal is no big deal so they wont mind at all.

I "misplaced" half of my titan sigil before I completed it, so I have yet to run it :o Also, I have no idea *** is going on in there and I can never get anyone to show me, so I don't care for running a quest I know nothing about. Titan gloves would allow me to fail on a 2, which is pretty sweet and might also allow me to switch over to THF feats.

My biggest complaint about halflings? They run like they have osteoporosis :(

[The_Phenx]

I "misplaced" half of my titan sigil before I completed it, so I have yet to run it :o Also, I have no idea *** is going on in there and I can never get anyone to show me, so I don't care for running a quest I know nothing about. Titan gloves would allow me to fail on a 2, which is pretty sweet and might also allow me to switch over to THF feats.

My biggest complaint about halflings? They run like they have osteoporosis :(

ROFL.. halfling females are the worst...they move like an 80 year old grandma...yeck.

If you were on Khyber id be glad to bring you along for Titan.. but alas...

[Blind_Skwerl]

Been running with this build for a little while now. Talk about fun! Get all the boosts going and I have had party members freak out on more than one occasion. One cleric commented, "who gave the halfling cocaine?". Can't wait until I get fully geared. You can have one guess which character in my signature is him. ;)

[The_Phenx]

Been running with this build for a little while now. Talk about fun! Get all the boosts going and I have had party members freak out on more than one occasion. One cleric commented, "who gave the halfling cocaine?". Can't wait until I get fully geared. You can have one guess which character in my signature is him. ;)

Speedstick.. lol ... you named him after deodorant....

[Tharlak]

So with the new changes to THF I have decided to.... drop the dragonmarks and go with the full THF line...big surprise :D

This wont effect me too much. With the raid loot I have acquired I have a 35 umd and with a shroud item (or sos set of clothes) I can pick up 3-6 more really easy. SO I will be able ot flawlessly work heal scrolls.

And I will pick up lots of extra damage, and all the effects off the glancing blows.

Once I get the switch all the way done I will report back with impressions.

Oh and btw... Stunning blow still rocks...:D So I use that or my 3x earth staff for trash...if its a low reflex mob... earth...high relfex... stun...

Stinks I can do greensteel deconstruction, or I would disassemble my lightning stick...make it a mineral II and have that as my boss beater...shrug live and learn...

Building one of these in Mod 9 (once I get to buy extra slots). Did you rebuild/play this guy in beta. Any impressions with the new glancing blows. I have seen a staff acrobat in action and it's too fun to watch. Got distracted watching him go, forgot to swing myself.

[Tharlak]

Just rolled this up in beta. Only level 3.

Did have a question regarding glancing blows and QStaff. I don't see any glancing blows occur. I'm used to a greataxe and even without THF I get a few 1 or 2 pts at 2nd level. I'm not seeing any from the QStaff and I have THF. Are you getting glancing blows, is there something different about QStaffs?

[moorewr]

Just rolled this up in beta. Only level 3.

Did have a question regarding glancing blows and QStaff. I don't see any glancing blows occur. I'm used to a greataxe and even without THF I get a few 1 or 2 pts at 2nd level. I'm not seeing any from the QStaff and I have THF. Are you getting glancing blows, is there something different about QStaffs?

The proc rate should be the same on any two-hander.

[Blind_Skwerl]

Early on, your BAB is pretty low, so it is probably due to the fact you are missing.

[Tharlak]

Early on, your BAB is pretty low, so it is probably due to the fact you are missing.

Ah.. So the glancing blow is a separate "to hit" roll. Always thought it was a factor of the original to hit on your target.

[Blind_Skwerl]

I thinks so, but can't say for sure. I have never checked.