Big F'n Stick Build

[Cardtrick]

Have an unsuppressed dreamspitter, bloody shadow staff, holy of pg, and metalline of pg staff. I use them all in different situations but since I'm currently playing endgame content, been using the dreamspitter a lot. Evil outsiders don't stand a chance =-).

If you don't have one, get a Rahl's Might (preferably Force Burst version). It doesn't look as impressive as some of the other staffs at first glance, but the 1d10 base damage and 3x crit profile makes it basically a greataxe that can be swung 20% faster. With a Horc's strength, you'll do very good crits. It's likely your best DPS weapon for most content.

[DethTrip]

If you don't have one, get a Rahl's Might (preferably Force Burst version). It doesn't look as impressive as some of the other staffs at first glance, but the 1d10 base damage and 3x crit profile makes it basically a greataxe that can be swung 20% faster. With a Horc's strength, you'll do very good crits. It's likely your best DPS weapon for most content.

Actually I do have one, 4 of them actually. Forgot to mention it. I do use the force one, I need to unsuppress it still tho. It's good for beating down the training dummy and in other certain situations. As you said, the x3 crit is pretty nice. Combine that with fists of iron and you get a x4 crit. Pretty cool. I've hit 300+ on crits =-).

[The_Phenx]

Here http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=284717 is my acrobat version. I love the Horc acro build. Have an unsuppressed dreamspitter, bloody shadow staff, holy of pg, and metalline of pg staff. I use them all in different situations but since I'm currently playing endgame content, been using the dreamspitter a lot. Evil outsiders don't stand a chance =-). Absolutely cannot wait to run epics, which was what I had in mind when I built this toon. This build has quickly become one of, if not the most favorite build I play. I have several toons atm that I play including a monk, warchanter, and wizard. Glad to hear many others are enjoying the acrobat. It's nice to have something fun and different to play and at the same time a vary valuable asset to any party.

This thread is a monster. Glad to see you are putting links in the OP to the most important info. Good work mate. +1

Its a work in progress lol.

I looked at the build. Not bad.. its a lot like the ugly stick just more offensive and less defensive capability. I tend not to dump stat wis on monk splashes since their AC can actually hit meaningful levels.

For Epics look to get a forceburst rahls might.. It is the highest dps staff for held mobs... Maybe better than a LITII but not totally sure Its a close call.

[Dartwick]

I really like the force rahls in epic(and I havent even unsuppressed mine.) Its great for autocrits and the improved destruction is nice too.

[DethTrip]

I definately must agree that the improved destruction has to be a big help in epics especially with the low bab these builds have. Doubt I'll be able to use power attack in epic because of the -8 from taking all the PA enhancements but maybe the improved destruction will make up for it enough to allow it. Is there anything that the improved destruction does not work on? Anyone know how long the improved destruction lasts? I also wonder if the woowoo kills faster because of the level drains in insta crit situations?

As far as AC goes, we all know AC is pretty much useless in epic so I use the shadow fade blur combo to try to avoid being smacked around too much. My TR dark path max strength monk is set up this way and he does very well. He is actually my main and has lots of twink gear. Got a lot of work ahead to get my stick build to his level. Gonna have to run a bunch more IQ stuff again. Its good though cause it will help him cap and get the stuff I need to unsuppress the Rahls.

[wiglin]

Here is my take on the monk splash.

I would not take 3 monk for healing ki. It is not worth the trade of from the lack of dps you get by staying pure. As a rogue you will be able to umd heal scrolls, and that is way better for healing than healing ki. It is possible to get your healing amp high enough to get a nice return from healing ki, but even then you are mashing healing ki vs dps strikes.

If I wanted a monk splash, I would do 6 monk and go ninja spy. You get back 1 of your lost sneak attack dice. You have the F-D-F finisher for automatic crits every few seconds and shadowfade. The damage mitigated from shadow fade is worth alot more then the hp restored from healing ki, and shadow fade is effective against purple named. What I like about this splash is it opens up the 3rd class. I chose ranger for +3 damage vs evil outsiders and sprint boost.

Shadow Fade + Heal Scrolls >>>>>> over Healing Ki + Heal Scrolls.

As a ninja spy acrobat you rely on passive defense, so all your buttom mashing can be dps focused.

[Quarterling]

I've done some thinking and theorizing and I came up with this build idea that completely ditches strength in favor of dexterity that will maintain good AC (except that I will still want Power Attack, so I'm keeping at least 13). Of course, this has the major weakness of only two quarterstaffs being viable; Breeze and Epic Nat Gann's Staff. I will be getting at least two Epic Nat Gann's Staffs and will fit different gems in them so that I'll be able to break several boss' DR. I am not counting the Shining Crescents (http://ddowiki.com/page/Shining_Crescents) you get from The Titan Awakes because you need a feat to finesse it. This means that until I hit level 14 (the minimum level for Breeze), my DPS will be sub-par. Power Attack and Combat Expertise will both be toggled to one or the other situationally.
Here is my reasoning for each feat:

Dodge (1): AC build.
Sneak of Shadows (3): Gives you +5 SA attack and +10 SA damage at level 20 upon activation.
Combat Expertise (6): Like I said, AC build.
Power Attack (9): Time to get power attack.
Improved Evasion (10): Everybody rolls a 1. :)
Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons (12): You'd have to be crazy not to get this, even if only a 5% increase.
Toughness (13): Toughness? Check.
Toughness (14): Another toughness, though I'm open to suggestions.
Toughness (15): Yet another toughness! I'm loving the HP, but see above.
Opportunist (15): Double-strike and fortification bypass is nice.
Toughness (18): 4 Toughness feats now, once again, see above.
Skill Mastery (18): +1 to all skills goes nicely with "Rogue: Past Life" which also gives another +1 to all skills.


Dex: 18 Base+5 Levels+2 Tome+5 Enhancements+2 Wind Stance+7 Item+3 Exceptionals = 42 (+16)
Wis: 15 Base+2 Tome+1 Enhancements+7 Item+3 Exceptionals = 28 (+9)

AC
--
10 Base
16 Dex
9 Wis
8 Armor
5 Deflection (Dragontouched)
4 Insight (Dragontouched)
4 Nat Gann's Staff
2 Cloak of Night
3 Chattering Ring
1 Alchemic Bonus on DT
1 Dodge Feat
3 Natural Armor
1 Size
1 Monk bonus
5 Combat Expertise
--
73 Passive
3 Barkskin Pot
4 Shield Wand
4 Airship Buffs
2 Yugoloth Pots
--
86 Extensive Buffs
2 +5 Ranger's Barkskin
6 Improved Uncanny Dodge
2 Showtime!
--
96 Raid Buff, IUD, Showtime!
2 +4 Tomes
--
98 With +4 Tomes
2 House D Pots
2 DDO Store Pots
4 Mobility Tumble
? Paladin Aura
--
106+ AC (highest AC, but you'd be crazy to sustain it)



Inspyerd Quarterling
Level 20 Lawful Good Halfling Male
(18 Rogue/2 Monk)

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(34 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 12 14
Dexterity 18 30
Constitution 14 16
Intelligence 12 14
Wisdom 15 18
Charisma 8 10

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Rogue

Level 3 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Past Life: Sneak of Shadows

Level 6 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Combat Expertise

Level 9 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack

Level 10 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion

Level 12 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons

Level 13 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness

Level 14 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness

Level 15 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Opportunist
Feat: (Selected) Toughness

Level 18 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Skill Mastery
Feat: (Selected) Toughness

Level 20 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Extra Action Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Extra Action Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost III
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost IV
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity I
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity II
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning I
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning II
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning III
Enhancement: Halfling Guile I
Enhancement: Halfling Guile II
Enhancement: Halfling Guile III
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I
Enhancement: Rogue Thief-Acrobat I
Enhancement: Rogue Thief-Acrobat II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV
Enhancement: Improved Balance I
Enhancement: Improved Balance II
Enhancement: Improved Concentration I
Enhancement: Improved Tumble I
Enhancement: Improved Tumble II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity III
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom I

[The_Phenx]

I definately must agree that the improved destruction has to be a big help in epics especially with the low bab these builds have. Doubt I'll be able to use power attack in epic because of the -8 from taking all the PA enhancements but maybe the improved destruction will make up for it enough to allow it. Is there anything that the improved destruction does not work on? Anyone know how long the improved destruction lasts? I also wonder if the woowoo kills faster because of the level drains in insta crit situations?

As far as AC goes, we all know AC is pretty much useless in epic so I use the shadow fade blur combo to try to avoid being smacked around too much. My TR dark path max strength monk is set up this way and he does very well. He is actually my main and has lots of twink gear. Got a lot of work ahead to get my stick build to his level. Gonna have to run a bunch more IQ stuff again. Its good though cause it will help him cap and get the stuff I need to unsuppress the Rahls.

I have 0 problems with preying in epic. Save 1 or two pesky bosses and then I just turn off power attack. Dont forget a DP or madstone click gives you another +5 to hit, and if you are a TR the clickie gives another +5 and so on and so on.

As far as splashes go, I didn't especially for epic because of the DPS loss. You are talking 4d6 from the capstone + what 3d6 form level progression... Each hit sees around 100 pts just in sneak attack damage on a 20 rogue.

A multiclass will perform great as well, but in regular questing its easy with them to pump up your AC to levels which are worthwhile, which as I see it is the advantage of a multi. More options.

For DPS a strait rogue halfling is just a touch ahead of a half orc (assuming no aggro) with aggro the half orc comes up better.

THe wooowooo stick I feel kills faster than anything and is more of a benefit to the whole party. I do around 200 a hit+level drain with it or 325 a hit with Rahls.

If I remember right IMP destruction is 1 min debuff.

[The_Phenx]

I've done some thinking and theorizing and I came up with this build idea that completely ditches strength in favor of dexterity that will maintain good AC (except that I will still want Power Attack, so I'm keeping at least 13). Of course, this has the major weakness of only two quarterstaffs being viable; Breeze and Epic Nat Gann's Staff. I will be getting at least two Epic Nat Gann's Staffs and will fit different gems in them so that I'll be able to break several boss' DR. I am not counting the Shining Crescents (http://ddowiki.com/page/Shining_Crescents) you get from The Titan Awakes because you need a feat to finesse it. This means that until I hit level 14 (the minimum level for Breeze), my DPS will be sub-par. Power Attack and Combat Expertise will both be toggled to one or the other situationally.

Thats about the build you would need to make it work lol. Be interesting to see what the actual #rs are on it when its all the way built up.

The toughnesses are nice.. the only other logical thing would be to take the spring attack feat since you will already be there. And then you could take whirlwind and let us know what the animation looks like ROFL (I Jest)

I honestly wouldn't bother with breeze once you hit cap. Its near useless in high level quests and with Natt's staff you will have your dex...your S/A mod everyhting in one lil package.

[Dartwick]

high dex build stuff


Bad idea.

My acrobat was originally made with the intention of using Breeze as an end game weapon(long before epics) so he is a dex build. Although I did start with 14 strength and I put one abilty point into strength so that when I used a plus 2 tome I was able to get improved and greater 2 handed fighting.

I found is that even with 38 dex vs. 23 strength I use a a strength weapon essentially always.


There are 2 problems.

One is the obvious - Nats staff has the wrong DR breaking and wrong bonuses much of the time(Radiance, Min 2, Soul Eater Ralhs etc.)

The second problem and the real killer IMO is that you dont get a 1.5 damage stat bonus with 2 handed dex based weapons(apparently just sloppy coding.)

If you want AC do what you can with a more balanced build.

So if youre plan is to just run Shroud and tank it the dex build might work pretty well. If you want to do anything else its a weak choice. You will have a high AC rogue who never gets agro because his damage is low.

[Quarterling]

I honestly wouldn't bother with breeze once you hit cap. Its near useless in high level quests and with Natt's staff you will have your dex...your S/A mod everyhting in one lil package.

Oh yes, I was just using Breeze to compensate as the only other weapon besides Epic Nat Gann's that can use Dex to hit and damage.


Bad idea.

My acrobat was originally made with the intention of using Breeze as an end game weapon(long before epics) so he is a dex build. Although I did start with 14 strength and I put one abilty point into strength so that when I used a plus 2 tome I was able to get improved and greater 2 handed fighting.

I found is that even with 38 dex vs. 23 strength I use a a strength weapon essentially always.

There are 2 problems.

One is the obvious - Nats staff has the wrong DR breaking and wrong bonuses much of the time(Radiance, Min 2, Soul Eater Ralhs etc.)

The second problem and the real killer IMO is that you dont get a 1.5 damage stat bonus with 2 handed dex based weapons(apparently just sloppy coding.)

If you want AC do what you can with a more balanced build.

So if youre plan is to just run Shroud and tank it the dex build might work pretty well. If you want to do anything else its a weak choice. You will have a high AC rogue who never gets agro because his damage is low.

The two-handed-fighting feats is a waste on a thief-acrobat build. Also, the difference of damage between strength and dexterity from the non-1.5 bonus is small when you consider halflings have a naturally higher dex to cover for it. And who knows? Perhaps this isn't intended and Turbine will change it later on, though I'm not exactly counting on it.

As for not having a Rad II quarterstaff to get auto-sneak attack, I can just UMD sleet storm scrolls which gives me SA on red and purple names even. Plus, as a part monk, I can max out concentration to UMD them without interruption.

[wiglin]

A couple of things:

The epic staff of nat gann is horrible. You lose the 1.5 damage modifier since it does not use strength, and the damage is is weaksauce.

My acrobat is a halfling with a 14 base strength, and with the epic souleater typically run around with a 36 strength. More if you want to consider yugo pots and rage. My dex is also 32, so I am getting 11 damage on sneak attacks but still good base damage for an acrobat.

THF feats are very much worth it on an acrobat. The difference from 6-8 damage per glancing blows to 25 is significant.

Acrobats are already behind in the dps dept, going with a dex focus when sustainable ac in the end game is not feasible is not a good idea. I know people say play what you want, but when I am healing an elite ToD, I don't want a dex based acrobat with sub-par dps causing me to use more heal scrolls since the fight takes longer. These type of builds just are not near as effective as they could be in the current state of this game.

I know a majority of dos comes from good gear, but at the least build your character to maximize its dps with what gear you have. The main advantage of being a finesse build is to maximize AC, but since Turbine likes to pick and choose what they scale in this game, and ac not being one of them, you are much better off focusing on DPS and Damage mitigation through things like blur, shadowfade..etc.

[Dartwick]

The two-handed-fighting feats is a waste on a thief-acrobat build.

I did not suggest you take those feat - but you are wrong. They offer significant damage.


Also, the difference of damage between strength and dexterity from the non-1.5 bonus is small when you consider halflings have a naturally higher dex to cover for it.

Wrong again. The halflings start with 2 extra dex which is 1 point of damage. Obviously they are the race to choose for such a build but it does not even things out.

The lack of weapon choice is a significant disadvantage. The lack of a 1.5 bonus is also a significant disadvantage. Together is a huge disadvantage.

Now if you want to make this build by all means do so. But realize you are trading a lot of damage for modestly useful AC which will require a lot of item grinding.



As for not having a Rad II quarterstaff to get auto-sneak attack, I can just UMD sleet storm scrolls which gives me SA on red and purple names even. Plus, as a part monk, I can max out concentration to UMD them without interruption.

Every response that comes to mind here would be considered mean.

[wiglin]

Something I didn't mention when explaining the F-D-F finisher before, is that it is treated as an attack and not a spell. That means it works while madstoned.

[voodoogroves]

I had an acrobat a while back, but he turned into a mule and is now on a server I no longer play.

I dusted off his build notes and I think I'm going to be TRing my WF Monk into this now that I've got this nifty True heart sitting in the bank.

Initial Plan


Monk 1 / Fighter 6 / Rogue 13

Monk (1): Toughness
Fighter (4): Power Attack, Improved Crit, Focus, Specialize
Normal (7): Stunning Blow, THF, ITHF, GTHF, Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, FEAT
Rogue (2): Opportunist, Improved Evasion

Totally unsure what other feat to take.


Attributes, I think, will look something like this with minimal effort:


STR: 18 + 2 tome + 2 fighter + 5 levels + 6 item = 33 + rage + 1 exceptional (DT) +2 sun stance= 38 = 14 base (+1 ship, +1 pot, + titan gloves, etc.)
DEX: 14 + 3 class + 2 tome + 5 item = 24
CON: 14(16) +2 tome +2 racial + 6 item + 2 rage = 28
INT: 14 + 2 tome + swap item
WIS: 6 +2 tome + 6 item - 2 stance
CHA: 6


Stunning Blow DCs: 14 strength + 2 fighter enhance + 1 kensai + 3 WF = 30 base
Trip DC: 34 base + short-term

That's a DC 30 on stunning, 34 on trip before a weapon, ship buffs, titan gloves, etc. I've got a Stunning +10 sitting in a bank somewhere; I probably won't bother w/ a Vertigo weapon

Now I just need to work out gear. I've already got a few sets of DT Armor - one is Defense-based (Resistance, Protection, Dodge) but the one I use mostly is Resistance/Exc. STR +1/Melodic Guard. A set of radiance guard would rock. I should have plenty of mid-level gear as well; just need to figure out what sorts of things I should grind for as I hit my 20s in VoD/HoX/etc. He's wearing Tharnes Goggles and Jidz-Tekta right now I know for sure, plus the Gloves of Titan's Grip; couple Amrath Belts (no ToD rings on him though - I kinda capped him and let him languish a bit after ToD changed). Has a Mabar cloak and some Spectral Gloves (kinda redundant) and a Bloodstone. Has a Docent of Grace too, but that's pretty redundant.

I need to bomb him out a Rad2 staff. I've got all the others (Soul Eater, Mindspitter, two Staff of Shadow + various things to combine with it). I'm tempted to make an Earthgrab staff; has anyone messed with that? I've got a few Rahl's Might, but not the Force one. Even Nat's but I doubt I'd use that. Have a few lowbie ones (Pillar of Light, etc.) and plenty of misc. ones (have an frosted-shock of greater dragon bane, metalline of GCB, acid of greater giant bane, holy of greater undead bane, holy of disruption, paralyzers, etc. etc.)

Gear-wise: Any thoughts on additional raid gear I should grind or select on my 20s?

Greensteel: Rad2 or Earthgrab staff? I also need to get around and craft him an HP item; any slot recommendations and / or other effects?


Leveling order: I think I'll probably put Monk and 2nd; for best skill-placement I should probably front-load as much of fighter as I can. Advice?

[Quarterling]

Thank you for your "informative" post Dartwick, it made me laugh. But first, a quote.


A fool who doesn't think is more foolish than a fool who foolishly thinks.


I did not suggest you take those feat - but you are wrong. They offer significant damage.

I would much rather do focused DPS against a single target than have aggro coming in from me at all sides when I am in a party since enemy damage increases with dungeon scaling. Think man!


Wrong again. The halflings start with 2 extra dex which is 1 point of damage. Obviously they are the race to choose for such a build but it does not even things out.

Let's say you max out strength:

18 base - 2 racial + 5 levels + 2 tome + 10 item = 33 (+11)

With a +11 modifier to strength, that is a +16 base bonus.

Now lets say you max out dexterity. I will be starting with a 16 base instead of 18 because I do not like to spend another 6 points just to raise the modifier by one point:

16 base + 2 racial + 5 levels + 5 enhancements + 2 tome + 10 item = 40 (+15)

Now I could match the +16 if I spent 6 extra ability points into strength, but that is poor character planning. Not to mention that your sneak attack damage also increases when your dexterity increases, so this makes up for it by doubling instead of just multiplying by x1.5 (as long as SA is in effect which should be most of the time in which I explain below). The damage gap here is so small, I frankly do not care.


The lack of weapon choice is a significant disadvantage. The lack of a 1.5 bonus is also a significant disadvantage. Together is a huge disadvantage.

While the weapon may not bypass ALL bosses DR, those bosses make up like 0.5% of the game. Did you know that it is impossible for a single build to be 100% efficient? I guess not as we all must make sacrifices.


Now if you want to make this build by all means do so. But realize you are trading a lot of damage for modestly useful AC which will require a lot of item grinding.

Me trading a lot of damage? Read my above comments. As for "a lot of item grinding", all I am grinding for is Epic Nat Gann's Staff. Is "a lot" one single epic item to you? If so, I am guessing you have zero epic items. DDO is all about grinding, because that is how Turbine set up this game.


Every response that comes to mind here would be considered mean.

Since you came up with no response, I am guessing you must think that 100% sneak attack is actually a good idea (albeit take out enemies with fortification and those like undead who are immune to SA anyway). You see, it is really efficient to UMD sleet storm scrolls as you will continue to sneak attack even bosses even though they are aggro'ed onto you. Keep in mind that this is solo strategy; as in a party, the tank will be managing aggro.

[wiglin]

The main thing about a dex build is ac is not needed in the current state of the game. What does ac do...it mitigates damage, currently to get AC to matter you are doing so at the cost of dps. Their are other ways to mitigate damage without weakening your offensive ability. An acrobat will not have the raw hitpoints to tank and since ac is not an end all to damage mitigation, it is not a wise trade off.

AC is great on a tank than can maintain aggro and has the hitpoints to absorb what ac does not. As a dps class your ac is meaningless in epic content, and elite raids. You will get healed with the rest of the party during the mass cures/heals. If someones idea of endgame is soloing on normal and running shroud then by all means work on the ac it will be effective, but in no way will you be maximizing your potential as an acrobat.

Any build can solo, especially due to dungeon scaling. It doesn't really matter what class. Also player knowledge and skill over build for soloing in this game. As for an acrobat the epic souleater + decent healing amp makes for an easy time soloing stuff in amarath. AC is not needed to accomplish this.

[wiglin]

I had an acrobat a while back, but he turned into a mule and is now on a server I no longer play.

I dusted off his build notes and I think I'm going to be TRing my WF Monk into this now that I've got this nifty True heart sitting in the bank.

I like this class split as it with your build you can get to a 40dc stunning blow. One of the weaknesses of an acrobat is typically the lack of stunning ability.

I do not have a Rad II staff. Currently I am using radiance guard on my armor to get the blindness effect. If I have to their is always sleet storm scrolls. I just have other priorities for greensteel atm. With your build I would go with at least a +4 Stunning +10 staff for the 40dc then once the mobs is stunned swap to a shadow staff to woo woo them down.

The 20% alacrity acrobats get with staffs really lends to woo woo sticks as we are the fastest class for draining a mob levels. As a rogue you can also carry enervate scrolls for non SR mobs in epic to lower their saves before you go for the stun. 40dc is good, but you will still see the saves.

As for what gear to use, I would work on fitting in the abishai set if possible using the charged gauntlets. This will boost your stunning blow dc from the +3 str. The charged gauntlets are a nice dps boost without the added threat that comes on the claw set. I like the mabar cloak for the blur and inv proc, but I plan on switching the mabar cloak for a shroud hp cloak with blur. The inv proc is nice, but it doesn't proc enough for me to wear it over 45 more hp's.

You also can go for the ravager tod set for the 2d6 slicing effect on each hit. If you are not going to work in a dps belt set, then shoot for the epic belt of the mroronan. This gives you +7Str, Toughness, Heavy Fort and you can slot GFL in the yellow slot.

Try to get either shintao set or oremi's. Either will work. Shintao is great for the +2 to hit especially in epics. I have yet to pull my shintao ring, so I am using Oremi's. The 1d6 fire damage procs on every glancing blow. Craft +2 Str on whichever ring you go with.

This setup would leave you with the helm, boots, and gloves for the abishai bonus. Alot of grinding, but its an idea.

[voodoogroves]

That's a DC40 using a stunning +10 before say, ship buff, psionic clickies, etc. Madstone. There's something I should get.

I've got a GS cloak in the bank I could turn into an HP item. I could also use that slot for Abashai instead and slot HP somewhere else.

I'm somewhat biased against Rad2 right now because of the way mobs seem to go careening around and make me chase right now. Earthgrab, etc. holds the dudes in place, which is preferable.

[wiglin]

That's a DC40 using a stunning +10 before say, ship buff, psionic clickies, etc. Madstone. There's something I should get.

I've got a GS cloak in the bank I could turn into an HP item. I could also use that slot for Abashai instead and slot HP somewhere else.

I'm somewhat biased against Rad2 right now because of the way mobs seem to go careening around and make me chase right now. Earthgrab, etc. holds the dudes in place, which is preferable.

With an effective stunning blow, you might just save the ingredients that would be used for making an earthgrab staff. The other issue is the staff is a x2 weapon, not really the best for dps'ing auto crit mobs, that is why I like the woo woo stick route. The 20% alacrity really allows the acrobat to shine in that dept.

I don't really like using the envenomed cloak on an acrobat since the con is being slotted in the necklace slot at least. If you go ravager belt then you duplicate it again, so you are left with blue slot and +5 resist. I am fine with slotting +4 resist in the Jidz-tetka and the blue slot isn't needed if you go with the epic belt of the mroronan. Either way plenty of options just throwing out some ideas.

[Dartwick]

Thank you for your "informative" post Dartwick, it made me laugh. But first, a quote.





I would much rather do focused DPS against a single target than have aggro coming in from me at all sides when I am in a party since enemy damage increases with dungeon scaling. Think man!



Let's say you max out strength:

18 base - 2 racial + 5 levels + 2 tome + 10 item = 33 (+11)

With a +11 modifier to strength, that is a +16 base bonus.

Now lets say you max out dexterity. I will be starting with a 16 base instead of 18 because I do not like to spend another 6 points just to raise the modifier by one point:

16 base + 2 racial + 5 levels + 5 enhancements + 2 tome + 10 item = 40 (+15)

Now I could match the +16 if I spent 6 extra ability points into strength, but that is poor character planning. Not to mention that your sneak attack damage also increases when your dexterity increases, so this makes up for it by doubling instead of just multiplying by x1.5 (as long as SA is in effect which should be most of the time in which I explain below). The damage gap here is so small, I frankly do not care.



While the weapon may not bypass ALL bosses DR, those bosses make up like 0.5% of the game. Did you know that it is impossible for a single build to be 100% efficient? I guess not as we all must make sacrifices.



Me trading a lot of damage? Read my above comments. As for "a lot of item grinding", all I am grinding for is Epic Nat Gann's Staff. Is "a lot" one single epic item to you? If so, I am guessing you have zero epic items. DDO is all about grinding, because that is how Turbine set up this game.



Since you came up with no response, I am guessing you must think that 100% sneak attack is actually a good idea (albeit take out enemies with fortification and those like undead who are immune to SA anyway). You see, it is really efficient to UMD sleet storm scrolls as you will continue to sneak attack even bosses even though they are aggro'ed onto you. Keep in mind that this is solo strategy; as in a party, the tank will be managing aggro.


Now you have called me a name(by proxy of a quote.)
How shall I put this?
I hope misfortune smiles on you in real life.

Anyway. You didnt refute anything I said you just said "I dont think it matters" in a round about way.
Well I tried this and I think it matters.
The other poster here who also tried it also thinks the dex build has weak damage but he said it in a more friendly manner.

Like I said. If you want a low damage toon with reasonably effective AC you should enjoy your build.
I personally dont see the reasoning behind high ac on a low damage toon that gets what damage it does have from sneak attack in a game where AC barely matters anyway.
But if it is what you want at least understand what you are getting.

[Quarterling]

Now you have called me a name(by proxy of a quote.)
Like I said. If you want a low damage toon with reasonably effective AC you should enjoy your build.
I personally dont see the reasoning behind high ac on a low damage toon that gets what damage it does have from sneak attack in a game where AC barely matters anyway.
But if it is what you want at least understand what you are getting.

I am not calling you foolish; I am regarding your actions of overlooking the numbers as foolish because that just seems like ignorance. Math DOES NOT lie. See below.

It's not just AC, there are displacement clickies and stoneskin clickies/wands to be had to further increase survivability. You also still seem to be neglecting sneak attack. SA is the backbone of a rogue's DPS. Does that mean you should rely completely on it? No, because then when you are up against a SA immune enemy, you're practically powerless.

While going strength-based may be more dps, I will do the math again since you seem to have looked over it. I will be comparing a strength-based greensteel quarterstaff with a dexterity-based Epic Nat Gann quarterstaff. I know the dice are weighted in DDO, but for simplicities sake I will just be taking the average as if the dice weren't weighted.

MAX STR
---------
18 Base-2 Racial+5 Levels+2 Tome+2 Fire Stance+10 Item=35 (+12)*1.5=18
1d8+18 = 22.5 average damage

MAX DEX
---------
18 Base+2 Racial+5 Levels+2 Tome+5 Enhancement+2 Wind Stance+10 Item=44 (+17)
2d6+17 = 24 average damage

Oh wow, would you look at that, even with the x1.5 boost, dex-based still leads in DPS. Not only that, but you also have an attack of +5 greater (17 as opposed to 12). Not to mention that your sneak attack DPS will only be even higher since your dexterity is greater.

Mind explaining how this is a "low damage toon"? I encourage you to enlighten me.


You have a spare account simply so you can flame people with out getting youre real account in trouble?
How insubstantial of you.

Erm, look at the join date: May 2010. Don't you think if that was an alternate account of mine, said account would have red rep and be banned by now? Besides, flaming you is useless when I have math.

[jeremyt]

MAX STR
---------
18 Base-2 Racial+5 Levels+2 Tome+2 Fire Stance+10 Item=35 (+12)*1.5=18
1d8+18 = 22.5 average damage

MAX DEX
---------
18 Base+2 Racial+5 Levels+2 Tome+5 Enhancement+2 Wind Stance+10 Item=44 (+17)
2d6+17 = 24 average damage


Not to get into this ****ing match, but why are no strength enhancements on a strength based version? And why are you using neg 2 racial str on a str based version? seems counter intuative? of course a race that has a 4 point swing in the compared stats will gain much by utilizing its stronger stat? Also if dead set on using halfling for the weighted comparison you should note the massive savings in AP the strength based could gain by not needing to absolutely max out dex. Also why is the strength based version using the subpar (when your not accounting for secondary affects ETC) staff to a superior (when not accounting for all the secondary affects) staff? I dont think a str based acro would go halfling? sorry if im off base here. *EDIT: also its good to remember strength can be more easily spell buffed than dex, to get a more complete view of the comparison should include buffed numbers.

[Quarterling]

Not to get into this ****ing match, but why are no strength enhancements on a strength based version? And why are you using neg 2 racial str on a str based version? seems counter intuative? of course a race that has a 4 point swing in the compared stats will gain much by utilizing its stronger stat? Also why is the strength based version using the subpar (when your not accounting for secondary affects ETC) staff to a superior (when not accounting for all the secondary affects) staff? I dont think a str based acro would go halfling? sorry if im off base here.

I love halflings and wouldn't play the rogue class any other way. :D

Though if you wanted to make a str-based Thief Acro, you are right, another class would be a better choice (Half-Orc, for instance). But there is just something about seeing your little halfling thief-acro fly through the air and lay the smackdown on enemies many times bigger than itself - it brings a tear to my eye. On the other hand, a half-orc doing it just doesn't seem as cool or impressive.

Anyways, here is the comparison for half-orc.

MAX STR (H-Orc)
---------
18 Base+2 Racial+5 Levels+2 Tome+2 Enhancement+2 Fire Stance+10 Item=41 (+15)*1.5=22
1d8+22 = 26.5 average damage

MAX DEX (Halfling)
---------
18 Base+2 Racial+5 Levels+2 Tome+5 Enhancement+2 Wind Stance+10 Item=44 (+17)
2d6+17 = 24 average damage

Still a very small damage gap, but please keep in mind that again, this is not including sneak attack. Halflings can also get the halfling guile enhancements to further increase their DPS whereas a half-orc cannot. Also, the dexterity on a str-build will be notably lower. So while you may gain damage in the strength department, you will lose damage in the dex department. Why not go dex all the way to get it all?

[Dartwick]

Why wouldnt you use the base damage of epic soul eater as a comparison? Oh wait I see how that didnt help youre argument.

Yes "math" doesnt lie. But then neither do "words." Yet here we are.



BTW. where do you get off suggesting that I said you were the foul mouthed troll in this thread?

[voodoogroves]

With an effective stunning blow, you might just save the ingredients that would be used for making an earthgrab staff. The other issue is the staff is a x2 weapon, not really the best for dps'ing auto crit mobs, that is why I like the woo woo stick route. The 20% alacrity really allows the acrobat to shine in that dept.

I don't really like using the envenomed cloak on an acrobat since the con is being slotted in the necklace slot at least. If you go ravager belt then you duplicate it again, so you are left with blue slot and +5 resist. I am fine with slotting +4 resist in the Jidz-tetka and the blue slot isn't needed if you go with the epic belt of the mroronan. Either way plenty of options just throwing out some ideas.

For that extra feat, I think Quickdraw may be the best option, and simply hot-bar switch more quickly. That should do nicely.

In normal content mid-level (GH, Vale) I can also see stunning someone, turning off PA and then wailing on them with a Shadow as a cheap, easy way to regain HP.

[DethTrip]

I love halflings and wouldn't play the rogue class any other way. :D

Though if you wanted to make a str-based Thief Acro, you are right, another class would be a better choice (Half-Orc, for instance). But there is just something about seeing your little halfling thief-acro fly through the air and lay the smackdown on enemies many times bigger than itself - it brings a tear to my eye. On the other hand, a half-orc doing it just doesn't seem as cool or impressive.

Anyways, here is the comparison for half-orc.

MAX STR (H-Orc)
---------
18 Base+2 Racial+5 Levels+2 Tome+2 Enhancement+2 Fire Stance+10 Item=41 (+15)*1.5=22
1d8+22 = 26.5 average damage

MAX DEX (Halfling)
---------
18 Base+2 Racial+5 Levels+2 Tome+5 Enhancement+2 Wind Stance+10 Item=44 (+17)
2d6+17 = 24 average damage

Still a very small damage gap, but please keep in mind that again, this is not including sneak attack. Halflings can also get the halfling guile enhancements to further increase their DPS whereas a half-orc cannot. Also, the dexterity on a str-build will be notably lower. So while you may gain damage in the strength department, you will lose damage in the dex department. Why not go dex all the way to get it all?

Strength will always do more dps then dex when everything is considered. Strength gets a lot more buffs, you do way more damage when not sneak attacking with str, you can use better weapons, which do more damage, you use fire stance and gain more ki, granting more ki strikes, to do more damage. Adding up all numbers, even while sneak attacking, str will still do more dps. You will never get super high AC and do more dps than a max str build. The game is just not set up that way. So better weapons and a higher dps build = better way to go in my and a lot of others opinions. Now if you want to give up a bit of dps for higher AC, more power to ya. I just don't see the endgame value in that but hey, to each their own.

[The_Phenx]

I'm tempted to make an Earthgrab staff; has anyone messed with that?
I've got one, its moderately useful. I generally break it out vs elementals and scorpions. (think epic claw)

Gear-wise: Any thoughts on additional raid gear I should grind or select on my 20s?

For prey I have the usualy assortment thats helpful for a TA. Epic time sensing or von goggles for epic trap smithing, tharnes, bloodstone, epic spectral gloves are particularly useful, the mabar cloak is pretty handy, Frenzied bezerker TOD set, although ravager or shintao might be a better choice, Dustless boots come in handy from time to time, pouch of jerkey for the clickie. Right now I am working on a abishi setup from chrono... which will be helm of frost boots of corrosion + scorched bracers.

Greensteel: Rad2 or Earthgrab staff? I also need to get around and craft him an HP item; any slot recommendations and / or other effects?

Both are useful, I think radiance is moreso... but I use mine less frequently since mobs are almost always held in epics etc. I generally use rahls might, Lit II greensteel, Epic souleater or Dreamspitter. Only when I find myself soloing a mob or in a touch of trouble does the radiance come out, and then I am very glad I have it.


Leveling order: I think I'll probably put Monk and 2nd; for best skill-placement I should probably front-load as much of fighter as I can. Advice?

Front load your multiclass. Rogue first & 2nd get your evasion then do your 7 odd levels then back to rogue so you can finish out your skill in style once you have eaten a +2 tome and have a couple extra points to spread around. Just make sure to keep umd & search and spot if you can maxed as you level.



Red

[The_Phenx]

I would much rather do focused DPS against a single target than have aggro coming in from me at all sides when I am in a party since enemy damage increases with dungeon scaling. Think man!

Not to mention that your sneak attack damage also increases when your dexterity increases, so this makes up for it by doubling instead of just multiplying by x1.5 (as long as SA is in effect which should be most of the time in which I explain below). The damage gap here is so small, I frankly do not care.

You see, it is really efficient to UMD sleet storm scrolls as you will continue to sneak attack even bosses even though they are aggro'ed onto you. Keep in mind that this is solo strategy; as in a party, the tank will be managing aggro.

Your argument for the 1.5x vs the 1pt for Dex is a little off but not too much.
We worked it out a while ago, and I think the break even point was something like a 46 dex vs a 32 str. And the conversations I have had with the Dev's indicates that they are not planning on making the 1.5x work with dex to damage in the near future or ever.

For example Preying has a 34 str 36 dex base.. Its easy to get mid to high on both scores but when you go straight dex you definately gimp your str. And as long as you never switch weapons it really doesn't matter.

The glancing blows I have found extremely handy in the long run. Your almost never surrounded and placing yourself properly in a fight negates that unwanted aggro your worried about. 75pts every 4 swings vs 24 adds up fairly quickly, especially on group boss fights, not to mention the weapon effects proc's. I see random earthgrabs, blindings and soul trappings, and actually find this feature fairly handy. And if you are unfortunate enough to end up surrounded its nice to be able to dish it out as fast as possible.

The sleet storm feature for soloing is very handy. However I did things a lil different. I would UMD summon scrolls, sneak into a room let them grab aggro and then clean house. Elementals work best for this, as their native DR lets them last the longest.

As for the build. Good luck, take a fraps when its all done and stick it in the thread :)

[Plutocracy]

I love halflings and wouldn't play the rogue class any other way. :D

Anyways, here is the comparison for half-orc.

MAX STR (H-Orc)
---------
18 Base+2 Racial+5 Levels+2 Tome+2 Enhancement+2 Fire Stance+10 Item=41 (+15)*1.5=22
1d8+22 = 26.5 average damage

MAX DEX (Halfling)
---------
18 Base+2 Racial+5 Levels+2 Tome+5 Enhancement+2 Wind Stance+10 Item=44 (+17)
2d6+17 = 24 average damage



Add in another 10 damage for HORC due to rage (VERY easy to keep perma up with pots), Two handed enhancements, and PA enhancements.

So 36.5 average damage vs 26.5 (with possible 8 extra with guile) average damage. Not to mention the extra stunning blow DC.

[The_Phenx]

Oh and if your comparing #'rs if you want to be accurate.

Typically on Preying Buffed.

34 str + 2(rage) + 2(madstone) +2(ship) = 40

When I get the Might of the Abishi it will go to 44 str constant with a 46 occasionally from being double madstoned. I will be able to swap out a few key pieces of gear and have an 80 Ac.

I wont use Yugo because of the alacrity loss.

So since to be fair most folks wont get epic abishi a 40 str is +20 x1.5 = +30 damage normally + 10 from power attack = 40

And then Rahls might = x3 multiplier 1d10 base weapon avail to str based toons. Or a LSII And are by far the two highest dps staffs in the game.

Dex based is always going to be less damage sadly. The main #1 issue is that there aren't dex boosting items in game like there are str.

I don't want to discourage you tho.. I have wanted to see how it would turn out if someone purpose built around Natt for a while.

[DethTrip]

The synergy half-orcs have with a staff is awesome. You get the highest base str to start with plus Orcish Strength II, Orcish Melee Damage II, Orcish Great Weapon Aptitude III, and Orcish Power Attack III. If you want max dps, go HO. *Me smac u wid big stik*

[MoreIdiotThanSavant]

If you are collecting builds and ideas on all things Quarterstaff now to edit into the OP, check out cforce's Big Papi (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=251272). I don't know if anyone has actually built one, but it looks cool on paper.

[The_Phenx]

The synergy half-orcs have with a staff is awesome. You get the highest base str to start with plus Orcish Strength II, Orcish Melee Damage II, Orcish Great Weapon Aptitude III, and Orcish Power Attack III. If you want max dps, go HO. *Me smac u wid big stik*

This is where I get to mess with your head A halfling gets .5 more dps and 4 more to hit assuming no fort and no aggro.

But yes Horcs are very nice synnergy :D

[jeremyt]

Always required disclaimer: Yes I have acrobats (3 of them) and love them. But here is a non acrobat staff build with some different goals in mind:

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=302036

h-orc 12 fighter 6 monk 2 paladin, air stance/ninja/kensei.

[DethTrip]

This is where I get to mess with your head A halfling gets .5 more dps and 4 more to hit assuming no fort and no aggro.

But yes Horcs are very nice synnergy :D

That may be possible on sneak attacks but non sneak attack damage the HO way out dpses the halfling.

[DethTrip]

Always required disclaimer: Yes I have acrobats (3 of them) and love them. But here is a non acrobat staff build with some different goals in mind:

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=302036

h-orc 12 fighter 6 monk 2 paladin, air stance/ninja/kensei.

You can hit 40 DC stuns with a 13rog/6ftr/1mnk fairly easily and with all the toughness feats, hit well over 500 hps. I would prefer this route as opposed to yours. Let us know how you like it when you cap yours tho.

[jeremyt]

You can hit 40 DC stuns with a 13rog/6ftr/1mnk fairly easily and with all the toughness feats, hit well over 500 hps. I would prefer this route as opposed to yours. Let us know how you like it when you cap yours tho.

Fairly easy? My wf acrobat hits 37 w/ full WF tactical enhancements but is missing +2 exc str. Thats with all level ups into Str and starting with capped strength. having 7 monk he is dropping 2 DC from the kensei 1 route(assuming kensei route using fire stance)=39+1 Dc from missing 2 exc str=40 (absolute maximum possible without fighter past lives or a +4 str tome as i see it for acro 2?).

Are you sure you dont mean absolutely maxed DC not 'fairly easy'? restarting my horcer stick build this morning. Being a non TR toon shouldnt take much effort to cap quickly :) already have a set of staffs for him as hand-me-downs as well as force/bleed rahls and dreamspitter (prob going to park the human project and switch all his staffs to this guy)

Also, whats 'well over' 500 hp? 550? 599? what resources did you expend to gain the HP with acrobat? my non capped wf 13/6/1 kensei route will end up with standing unbuffed HP of right at 500 with full toughness enhancements. Horc being well over seems off? are you counting yugo pots/ship buffs/double madstones/rage/epic gear into that number?

[Reynarde]

You can hit 40 DC stuns with a 13rog/6ftr/1mnk fairly easily

Can you explain how, please?

[DethTrip]

Fairly easy? My wf acrobat hits 37 w/ full WF tactical enhancements but is missing +2 exc str. Thats with all level ups into Str and starting with capped strength. having 7 monk he is dropping 2 DC from the kensei 1 route(assuming kensei route using fire stance)=39+1 Dc from missing 2 exc str=40 (absolute maximum possible without fighter past lives or a +4 str tome as i see it for acro 2?).

Are you sure you dont mean absolutely maxed DC not 'fairly easy'? restarting my horcer stick build this morning. Being a non TR toon shouldnt take much effort to cap quickly :) already have a set of staffs for him as hand-me-downs as well as force/bleed rahls and dreamspitter (prob going to park the human project and switch all his staffs to this guy)

Also, whats 'well over' 500 hp? 550? 599? what resources did you expend to gain the HP with acrobat? my non capped wf 13/6/1 kensei route will end up with standing unbuffed HP of right at 500 with full toughness enhancements. Horc being well over seems off? are you counting yugo pots/ship buffs/double madstones/rage into that number?

Supersick Stunstick #1
Half-Orc
13Rogue/6Fighter/1Monk
Acrobat II/Kensei I

Notable Abilities, Feats, Skills: Max Strength for this split, Stunning blow, Hamstring, Power Attack, Opportunist, Improved evasion, UMD

46 Strength = 31 base str [20 +5 lvl ups +2 racial enh +2 ftr str enh +2 tome] +9 TOD ring +2 fire stance +2 ship buff +2 rage spell

41 DC Stunning Blow = 10 base +10 weapon +18 str mod +2 ftr sb enh +1 kensei

547 Hit Points = 352 +60 [+6 item] +20 [exc +2 con] + 45 shroud item +30 GFL +20 minos +20 rage +20 ship buff

This is NOT including madstone, double madstone, yugo pots or epic gear. A Shroud item, TOD rings and TOD belt are the only special gear.

Exc +1 con and a +3 con tome could add another 20 hps. Not too hard to achieve.

Something like this:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.0
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 Lawful Good Half-Orc Male
(6 Fighter \ 1 Monk \ 13 Rogue)
Hit Points: 352
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 16
Reflex: 13
Will: 8

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 20 31
Dexterity 8 13
Constitution 18 20
Intelligence 6 8
Wisdom 8 10
Charisma 6 8

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 3 30
Bluff -2 0
Concentration 4 6
Diplomacy -2 0
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle -2 -1
Heal -1 0
Hide 1 16
Intimidate -2 0
Jump 9 37
Listen -1 0
Move Silently 1 17
Open Lock 3 11
Perform n/a n/a
Repair -2 -1
Search -2 -1
Spot 2 3
Swim 5 10
Tumble 0 8
Use Magic Device 2 22

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Hide (+2)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Move Silently (+2)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Spot (+3)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Two Handed Fighting


Level 3 (Fighter)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Stunning Blow
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 4 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+3)


Level 5 (Fighter)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack


Level 6 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Hamstring


Level 7 (Fighter)
Skill: Jump (+1)


Level 8 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+3)


Level 9 (Fighter)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Handed Fighting
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Specialization: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 10 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)


Level 11 (Fighter)
Skill: Jump (+1)


Level 12 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+3)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 13 (Fighter)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 14 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)


Level 15 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Hide (+2)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting


Level 16 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Hide (+2)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 17 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Hide (+2)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion


Level 18 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Hide (+2)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 19 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Hide (+2)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 20 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Hide (+2)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Opportunist
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Kensei Quarterstaff Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) I
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) II
Enhancement: Orcish Extra Action Boost I
Enhancement: Orcish Melee Damage I
Enhancement: Orcish Melee Damage II
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack I
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack II
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack III
Enhancement: Orcish Strength I
Enhancement: Orcish Strength II
Enhancement: Orcish Great Weapon Aptitude I
Enhancement: Orcish Great Weapon Aptitude II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I
Enhancement: Rogue Thief-Acrobat I
Enhancement: Rogue Thief-Acrobat II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV
Enhancement: Improved Balance I
Enhancement: Improved Balance II
Enhancement: Improved Tumble I
Enhancement: Improved Tumble II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity III
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I

[jeremyt]

good show man, solid toon. Thats far from 'fairly easy' but definitely within reasonable range for most endgame power gamers. :)

[DethTrip]

good show man, solid toon. Thats far from 'fairly easy' but definitely within reasonable range for most endgame power gamers. :)

Glad you like it. It will definitely take a little TOD and shroud grinding but what build doesn't? But ya, 41 DC SB and 547 hps with non epic gear and only +2 tomes is 'fairly easy' =-).

[The_Phenx]

Very Solid Deth.

Comments.

1 You have WAY too many points in jump lol with your strength mod and a jump clickie you will max out.. jump caps at 40 anyway so anything above that is pointless.

Me I would dump all the points from balance jump hide and move silent. Put as much as you can into search and disable & open lock... (spot is only necessary if your the 1st one in a new quest)

I just hate building rogues without basic rogue skills, just means for the quests where you do need a rogue you will need to find another one.

Other than that very nice.

[Dartwick]

Very Solid Deth.

Comments.

1 You have WAY too many points in jump lol with your strength mod and a jump clickie you will max out.. jump caps at 40 anyway so anything above that is pointless.

Me I would dump all the points from balance jump hide and move silent. Put as much as you can into search and disable & open lock... (spot is only necessary if your the 1st one in a new quest)

I just hate building rogues without basic rogue skills, just means for the quests where you do need a rogue you will need to find another one.

Other than that very nice.

I hate acrobats that cant jump with out a clicky. :)

[jeremyt]

I hate acrobats that cant jump with out a clicky. :)

I hate acrobats that sacrifice massive utility and resources to avoid using a 15 minute duration clickie? Plus I find having to explain to every group i apply for that I cannot do traps as a rogue would be much more cumbersome than clicking on a hotbar button once every 15 minutes :p

[DethTrip]

May 11, 2012: Updated the build (below the original build) to take a better progression with feats and replaced hamstring with cleave (love cleave) as it no longer works on bosses. Improved Sunder may be a good choice there too. Also removed the power attack enhancements and used those points on haste boost III and great weapon aptitude III. From my play experience, this was needed because of too much missing in epics. If you find that you are always hitting on a 2 then by all means add them back but that has not been my experience.

Well, if you must do traps but still want max str, here you go. Only gives up 20 hit points over the no traps version http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?p=3595797#post3595797 Enjoy.

Supersick Stunstick #2
Half-Orc
13Rogue/6Fighter/1Monk
Acrobat II/Kensei I

Notable Abilities, Feats, Skills: Max Strength for this split, Stunning blow, Cleave, Power Attack, Opportunist, Improved evasion, Traps, UMD

46 Strength = 31 base str [20 +5 lvl ups +2 racial enh +2 ftr str enh +2 tome] +9 TOD ring +2 fire stance +2 ship buff +2 rage spell

41 DC Stunning Blow = 10 base +10 weapon +18 str mod +2 ftr sb enh +1 kensei

527 Hit Points = 332 +60 [+6 item] +20 [exc +2 con] + 45 shroud item +30 GFL +20 minos +20 rage +20 ship buff

This is NOT including madstone, double madstone, yugo pots or epic gear. A Shroud item, TOD rings and TOD belt are the only special gear.

Exc +1 con and a +3 con tome could add another 20 hps. Not too hard to achieve.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.0
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 Lawful Good Half-Orc Male
(6 Fighter \ 1 Monk \ 13 Rogue)
Hit Points: 332
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 15
Reflex: 13
Will: 8

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 20 31
Dexterity 8 13
Constitution 16 18
Intelligence 12 14
Wisdom 8 10
Charisma 6 8

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 3 30
Concentration 3 27
Disable Device 5 25
Hide 3 5
Jump 9 37
Move Silently 3 5
Open Lock 3 11
Search 5 25
Spot 2 3
Tumble 0 8
Use Magic Device 2 22

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Hide (+4)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Move Silently (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+3)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Monk)
Skill: Concentration (+5)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Two Handed Fighting


Level 3 (Fighter)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Stunning Blow
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 4 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+3)
Skill: Search (+3)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 5 (Fighter)
Skill: Jump (+3)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack


Level 6 (Rogue)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Hamstring


Level 7 (Fighter)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)


Level 8 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Open Lock (+3)
Skill: Search (+1)


Level 9 (Fighter)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Handed Fighting
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Specialization: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 10 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+3)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)


Level 11 (Fighter)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)


Level 12 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+3)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 13 (Fighter)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 14 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+7)


Level 15 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+5)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+3)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting


Level 16 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+7)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 17 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Jump (+5)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion


Level 18 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 19 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+2.5)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 20 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+2.5)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Opportunist
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Kensei Quarterstaff Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) I
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) II
Enhancement: Orcish Extra Action Boost I
Enhancement: Orcish Melee Damage I
Enhancement: Orcish Melee Damage II
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack I
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack II
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack III
Enhancement: Orcish Strength I
Enhancement: Orcish Strength II
Enhancement: Orcish Great Weapon Aptitude I
Enhancement: Orcish Great Weapon Aptitude II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I
Enhancement: Rogue Thief-Acrobat I
Enhancement: Rogue Thief-Acrobat II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV
Enhancement: Improved Balance I
Enhancement: Improved Balance II
Enhancement: Improved Tumble I
Enhancement: Improved Tumble II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity III
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I




Updated Build


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.12.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 Lawful Good Half-Orc Male
(6 Fighter \ 1 Monk \ 13 Rogue)
Hit Points: 332
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 15
Reflex: 13
Will: 8

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 20 31
Dexterity 8 13
Constitution 16 18
Intelligence 12 14
Wisdom 8 10
Charisma 6 8

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 3 30
Bluff -2 0
Concentration 3 27
Diplomacy -2 0
Disable Device 5 25
Haggle -2 -1
Heal -1 0
Hide 3 5
Intimidate -2 0
Jump 9 37
Listen -1 0
Move Silently 3 5
Open Lock 3 11
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 1 2
Search 5 25
Spot 2 3
Swim 5 10
Tumble 0 8
Use Magic Device 2 22

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Hide (+4)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Move Silently (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+3)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 2 (Monk)
Skill: Concentration (+5)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness


Level 3 (Fighter)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Cleave
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 4 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+3)
Skill: Search (+3)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 5 (Fighter)
Skill: Jump (+3)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Stunning Blow


Level 6 (Rogue)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting


Level 7 (Fighter)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)


Level 8 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Open Lock (+3)
Skill: Search (+1)


Level 9 (Fighter)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Handed Fighting
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Specialization: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 10 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+3)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)


Level 11 (Fighter)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)


Level 12 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+3)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 13 (Fighter)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 14 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+7)


Level 15 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+5)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+3)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting


Level 16 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+7)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 17 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Jump (+5)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion


Level 18 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 19 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+2.5)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 20 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+2.5)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Opportunist
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost III
Enhancement: Kensei Quarterstaff Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) I
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) II
Enhancement: Orcish Extra Action Boost I
Enhancement: Orcish Melee Damage I
Enhancement: Orcish Melee Damage II
Enhancement: Orcish Strength I
Enhancement: Orcish Strength II
Enhancement: Orcish Great Weapon Aptitude I
Enhancement: Orcish Great Weapon Aptitude II
Enhancement: Orcish Great Weapon Aptitude III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I
Enhancement: Rogue Thief-Acrobat I
Enhancement: Rogue Thief-Acrobat II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV
Enhancement: Improved Balance I
Enhancement: Improved Balance II
Enhancement: Improved Tumble I
Enhancement: Improved Tumble II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity III
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I

[The_Phenx]

Better lol. This would be a good max str tactics multiclass acrobat. Give it a name.. I will throw a link up

[DethTrip]

Better lol. This would be a good max str tactics multiclass acrobat. Give it a name.. I will throw a link up

Supersick Stunstick Max Str HO 13Rog/6Ftr/1Mnk Acro II/Kensei I, Stunning blow, Traps, UMD

[The_Phenx]

DethTrips Supersick Stunstick Max Str HO 13Rog/6Ftr/1Mnk Acro II/Kensei I, Stunning blow, Traps, UMD
http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=3597360&postcount=1546

Card Trick's YASH AcrobatII KensaiI HORC
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=302408

Strldr3's Vicious'N'Capricious - Acrobat II Frenzied Bezerker I (13rog/6barbarian/1ftr)
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=317844

OldAquarian's Ironwood - Survivalist Staff Master
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=332175

Arathalen's Destroyer Acrobat Barbarian 12 / Rogue 7 / Fighter 1 Half-Elf
http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=3965260&postcount=1919

[Reynarde]

Sorry if this has been answered a million times, but does the monk ability Unbalancing Strike work with a staff equipped?

[Arlathen]

Sorry if this has been answered a million times, but does the monk ability Unbalancing Strike work with a staff equipped?

It works on my Ranger11/Monk9 when using unarmed and Shortswords (Ninja Spy 1), so I see no reason why it wouldn't.

This would be an excellant way of getting sneak attacks - but has two shortcomings that need to be worked around. You need 6 monk levels to take the enhancement, and its based off of Monk level and Wisdom.

That said, it works far often on my build with 30 Wis even high end content like Amrath etc. Excellent ability.

[yynderjohn]

So what items from the new event do you think are worth getting for this build?

[Cardtrick]

So what items from the new event do you think are worth getting for this build?

There's nothing specifically focused on staff acrobats, but there are some very useful items for both rogues and melees.

* The brawler's gloves are great for this build -- strength, damage, and sneak attack bonuses.
* The hat, upgraded depending on what other equipment you have.
* The spyglass is nice for any rogue build.

If you're relatively ungeared before the event (especially if you have no Bloodstone), probably the best option is Seeker +6 and a +15 skill of your choice on the hat, fully upgraded Bold trinket (for the +1 damage, +2 exceptional seeker, and shocking blow), and the Brawlers Gloves for the +7 STR, yellow slot, glass jaw strike, and sneak attack bonus (can put your Tharne's away). If going for a high-dex build, the Buccanneer's Ring is worth considering as one of the easiest ways to get +7 Dex.

[simonnmiller]

Any advice on what weapons to use at what levels with the Big F'n Stick build design? And race info for creation?

[tophertzu]

So I am following the first build in the original post (lvl 16 now), I don't have any plans to buy H-Orc anytime soon, and I really like the halfling race. Is the 2nd halfling build in the first page my best bet for high dps when i get around to TRing? Or are there other options for non-HOrcs?

[XL_Jockey]

If you're not going Horc, you're best bet is probably Halfling due to the Cunning/Guile enhancements. Since you'll be sneak attacking anyway, these just add pure damage. It's very hard to pass up. I have a Halfling Monk with no Rogue levels that's getting +7 damage/hit from equipment and enhancements at lvl13. With how fast he hits, that damage adds up quickly. Take some subtle backstabbing enhancements and add skill points to Diplomacy and you're set. This bridges the gap (and I believe is still ahead) of the STR bonuses and 2-Handed bonuses that Horcs get.

I like Horc for in-your-face damage, and Halfling for behind-your-back damage. Add as much as you can to STR, get lots of CON and DEX and you're set.

[The_Phenx]

Any advice on what weapons to use at what levels with the Big F'n Stick build design? And race info for creation?

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=3577349&postcount=1470

Lists them by level.

Outside of that list. A paralyzer can be useful at lvl 10, greaterbanes are handy, or just a decent holy pure good with a high + is always a good choice.. as is a metalline of pg.

I levelled Preying with a +2 frost righteous.. then a +4 holy righteous.. and never regretted it.

[The_Phenx]

So what items from the new event do you think are worth getting for this build?

I am doing a seeker 6 concentration 15 helm for preying and "maybe" a set of leathers.

The gloves are awesome as is the spyglass :D

My eyes burn from the event already.

[drac317]

I am doing a seeker 6 concentration 15 helm for preying and "maybe" a set of leathers.

The gloves are awesome as is the spyglass :D

My eyes burn from the event already.
doing heavy fort disable 15,cause i hate swapping.
putting toughness on the spyglass and GFL on the gloves.

will be able to free up goggles(to int+6and guild augment),bracers(to ac8 or other),and ring(to warchanter tod for +6cha ex str+1&2),cause(see above) i hate swapping gear :D

[wiglin]

The epic spyglass is a great rogue item. I slotted luck in the green slot which gives it a +23 to search. I am able to drop rogue skill boost and still get epic traps.

[The_Phenx]

I already had epic time sensing goggles.. so I made a spyglass for my other rogue... but hes not an acrobat. BOOO BOOO!!!!! (Max Str TWF Pick Weilding HORC assassin)

[skunk]

great thread.

I don't have access to Monk, i am F2P and not looking to buy it for just a splash as its not worth it to me money wise.

Anyone giving feedback on this would be great.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=305019

i didn't put my level 20 enhancement in, i most likely will need search and dd boosted. What i really need help with is the levels i should take rogue/fighter to max potential, or if taking 7 fighter is the best for this build, or is adding 1 barb, or 1 ranger, or one bard, worth it?. I tried to keep UMD, Search and DD maxed. I want to tr my old beta rogue 28 point halfling max dex twf build. Thanks for the help, comments, and feedback.

[The_Phenx]

Looks decent. I would think that a 13/6/1 rogue fighter + ? would be more useful.

Ranger gets you a FE and base sprint boost... barb would be a rage and sprint boost.

It could go either way, Just depends on your goals.. but I dont think the 7th fighter level does much for you.

[Dartwick]

I would take either 1 of barb or ranger. Probably Barb since you have a half orc. The only thing fighter 7 gives you that barb doesnt is 1 level of strategy enhancments.

[Cardtrick]

Yeah, fighter 7 really doesn't get you anything of value. Better off splashing 1 level of something. Monk is generally the best single-level splash, but you've ruled that out. Fighter is often a good choice, but you already have 6 levels of that. A single level of a caster class is almost always useless to add to a melee build. Paladin is often a good minor splash, but only if you can spare 2 or 3 levels for its real benefits, which you can't. Your choices pretty much come down to ranger or barbarian, either of which gives you more benefit than a 7th fighter level.

A single level of ranger would get you bow strength, which is actually pretty nice; it's rare to want to do ranged damage on a build like this, but nice to have the capability when you need it, and you should have the feats to spare to take IC: Ranged to take a bit more advantage of it. More importantly, you'd get a single favored enemy, which (with enhancements) gives you +3 to damage and AB for one class of enemy. The obvious choice is Evil Outsider, and having +3 damage and attack against many of the harder enemies and many bosses is really nice. The Sprint Boost enhancement is a nice stacking short-term boost to movement speed. Rangers also have decent skill progression and choices, so you would be able to keep up your rogue skills a bit better.

A single level of Barbarian would grant you one use of a weak, short-duration Rage -- a minor DPS/survivability boost in certain situations, but pretty much not worth considering. The real benefit of a barbarian level is movement. Even 1 level of Barbarian grants you the base 10% movement speed increase. This stacks with everything -- including the additional 10% bonus you get at Thief Acrobat II. Like Ranger, you also get the Sprint Boost enhancement, which also stacks. This character would be about as fast as you can get, short of a pure monk. You also get slightly more HP than a ranger or fighter -- not a big deal.

My vote is one level of ranger, but either is worth considering.

[Aztek]

So - and i apologize this is a 79-page thread so i may have missed it here...

i've seen other discussions suggesting THF/ITHF/GTWF is maybe not what you want b/c of glancing blows messing with sneak attack, so I'm looking to the experts here :)

ITHF for example:
Increases the damage of glancing blow attacks when wielding a two-handed weapon by an additional 10%. Also increases the chance for weapon effects to trigger on glancing blows by an additional 3%.

So with Sneak attack, do you want to be doing glancing blows? or is this more for when you are not SA but solo/primary melee before the others get there?

In otherwords, is there a good argument for/against the THF/ITHF/GTHF line for a good Qstaff build?
** (i'm looking to either "fix" (lesser reincarnate) my halfing acrobat 9 rogue/2 pally/1 monk so far into a STR-based Q-staff build or just start from scratch with Horc/WF - most likely Horc 13 rogue/6 fighter/1 monk)

Or is that line pretty important if you want to try to stunning blow/paralyze/etc. a mob?

Great thread by the way. I know i can't be the most uberist, but i reaaaaaaly realllllly reallly want to use my fun fun Qstaff collection & it's been misused so far on my pure dwarf monk and others, so I really want to get a good one going this time. Thanks in advance!

[IronClan]

While Ranger 1 is probably his best splash (gives him wands) 7 fighter does have some usefulness. it opens up all the 7th level fighter enhancements which include Haste boost III, Toughness III, and +1 to tactical feat DC's like stunning blow. If one were taking improved trip and/or stunning blow those might be highly worth considering, especially if it's a UMD build that will already be able to use wands and scroll heal.

Personally I'd buy monk... it's that useful, it's a great class and the best 2 splash in the game.

[The_Phenx]

So - and i apologize this is a 79-page thread so i may have missed it here...

Heh It happens... still working on distilling it, I get thru about 5 pages a day.


So with Sneak attack, do you want to be doing glancing blows? or is this more for when you are not SA but solo/primary melee before the others get there?

Its a endgame vs soloing vs playing with bad pugs kinda argument. At endgame you want to be dumping as much damage as possible, so yes you want them. Using the right staffs its a non issue so yes. At midlevel in a pug with a bad cleric and you attract a bit too much attention, no you probably dont lol.

You will be doing glancing blows regardless, there is no way to shut them off. Me I just learned how to position myself in a fight to either add a bunch, or isolate them from combatants. IE if you see three or four mobs, they are already engaged by party members. Its a great idea to jump into the dead center of that bunch so your glancing blows will hit everything. Its very unlikely that your glances will steal aggro.

However if you see a bunch of mobs with full health advancing on your party, its probably a bad idea to charge right in, unless geared to deal with that. So wait two secconds for them to be engaged and then go in, move to one side or another so your glancing blows only hit your combatant.

I have always felt a TA is best played like a barbarian, and you let your gear and playskills manage your aggro for you.


In otherwords, is there a good argument for/against the THF/ITHF/GTHF line for a good Qstaff build? Or is that line pretty important if you want to try to stunning blow/paralyze/etc. a mob?

Im always for it. At high levels using the epic souleater, the 10% glancing proc is 10% more incoming healing, and I can almost indefinitely stay alive, just using it. Add Radiance guard to your gear, and you have your auto sneak taken care of as well.

BUT you could always do Combat expertise + Improved trip + Stunning blow + an extra Toughness, if you want to be a tactics build. In which case your looking at WF or Horc. I believe WF come ahead just a hair with DC's because of their enhancement lines, but the horc does more damage.

This also has the advantage of being able to reach a very high ac when necessary.

[Aztek]

Cool. Thanks for the input Phenx. I will play around with the builder and see what I want to do. I will probably go with the THF line based on your thoughts but i want to take a look at the possibility you suggested for tactics before i decide.

Great input. Thanks again for maintaining this thread.

[Cardtrick]

7 fighter does have some usefulness. it opens up all the 7th level fighter enhancements which include Haste boost III, Toughness III, and +1 to tactical feat DC's like stunning blow. If one were taking improved trip and/or stunning blow those might be highly worth considering, especially if it's a UMD build that will already be able to use wands and scroll heal.

Those are benefits of a Fighter 7 level in general, but they don't really add anything to his build. He's going Acrobat II, which means he can't take Fighter haste boost III (can only take one haste boost, and acrobat requires rogue boost). He's also a Horc, so he gets racial toughness enhancements; it makes more sense for him to go Fighter Toughness 1 & 2 + Racial Toughness 1 & 2, and he's unlikely to spend the extra APs for more, even if he could take Toughnes III. His build has no indication that he's focusing on fighter tactcis, but that's the strongest argument I can see in favor of keeping the 7th fighter level . . . still, I think he'd struggle to fit them on his build. He's going to be pretty tight on APs.

You're right that 7th fighter isn't useless; it's just not as useful as Ranger 1 or Barbarian 1, for his build.

[Cardtrick]

In otherwords, is there a good argument for/against the THF/ITHF/GTHF line for a good Qstaff build?

If you can afford them, absolutely take them. That is especially true on a build with decent strength. A lot of people look down on the THF line, because it used to be worth much less than it currently is; but in the game as it now stands, unless you're a twitch-fighter (which you shouldn't be), the THF line amounts to a huge increase in DPS.

First, from your post I think you may not quite understand how glancing blows work. On certain swings in the attack sequence, you make glancing blow attacks against all enemies in an arc in front of you (I think it's a 120 degree arc, but I'm not sure). That includes your current enemy, so you'll usually see two lines of damage numbers against your current enemy (3 if you also get a doublestrike). So even if you only ever fight one enemy at a time, there is still a benefit from glancing blows. The more enemies you engage at a time, the more benefit there is; and it's worth noting that these 13/6/1 acrobat builds can usually handle aggro pretty well, and aren't as reliant on sneak attacks as pure rogue assassins. When soloing, short-manning, and often even when running 6-person quests, you often want to have the aggro of multiple enemies, because you can deal with it better than most party members.

Without any THF feats, you'll do glancing blows for 20% of your base damage on your first and fourth attack swing (once you get a high enough BAB to have a fourth attack swing). With THF, ITHF, and GTHF, you'll do glancing blows for 50% damage on your first, third, and fourth attack swings. That is almost four times as much glancing blow damage. You also get the slightly increased chance to proc weapon effects, which I don't think is a big deal, but it's still nice. With a reasonably high strength and a +5 or higher weapon, you'll be looking at glancing blows doing damage in the region of 25-30, on 3/4 of your strikes. Think about what kind of effort people go to to farm gear that's going to give them +2 or +3 damage . . . giving up on glancing blows, when you have the free feats to afford to boost them, is a huge disadvantage.

Pretend for a moment that you live in an ideal world in which you only ever fight one enemy at a time. Pretend you're pretty high level with decent strength, using a plain +5 weapon. Let's say you do 50 base damage on a swing (that's low, but we'll use it because it's a nice number). If you take no THF feats, you will do 20% damage on glancing blows. 20% of 50 is 10. Only half of your swings (1st and 4th in the sequence) proc glancing blows, so you're doing an average of 10*1/2 = 5 glancing blow damage per swing. Now, say you took THF, ITHF, and GTHF. All of a sudden, you do 50% damage, which is 25. Now, 3/4 swings proc glancing blows, you do 25 * 3/4 = 18.75 glancing blow damage per swing. That means, even on a single target and ignoring the chance to proc weapon effects, taking the 3 feats gives you an extra 13.75 damage per swing on average. That's well worth the feats for most players.

Now, say you're in a less than ideal world. In such a world, you're likely to be mobbed by enemies sometimes, especially if you're zerging and not worrying much about aggro. Consider the case of 4 enemies in range. (This won't be happening all the time, but it's also not uncommon.) In that case, you gain 4 * 13.75, or 55 damage per swing. The more enemies you're fighting, the more benefit you get from THF feats. Similarly, the better the weapon you have, the more benefit you get, since each tier of THF gives a 3% chance of proccing weapon effects on glancing blows.

Consider how fast you can swing with the speed boost from Acro II stacking with Haste stacking with Rogue Haste Boost III, and you see that glancing blows add a tremendous amount to your DPS.


** (i'm looking to either "fix" (lesser reincarnate) my halfing acrobat 9 rogue/2 pally/1 monk so far into a STR-based Q-staff build or just start from scratch with Horc/WF - most likely Horc 13 rogue/6 fighter/1 monk)

If you haven't yet, take a look at the build in my sig. I think it's a pretty good example of a Horcrobat 13/6/1 build.

[The_Phenx]

Very well put.

[The_Phenx]

Heh new home.. custom character builds...

[Aztek]

Thanks Card and Phenx. Very useful comments. I'm sold on THF line. and yes, I haven't done a lot of THF since i first started in the game years ago, so I really don't understand glancing blow well (well now I do). Thanks again... I will check out your horc build!

[skunk]

I want to thank everyone for the responses. I am really debating how to go. Each has an advantage that the others lack. My playstyle might lead me to stay fighter, or go barb. I know i want the max hps.

I still have a while to think this out, I will have to take acrobat later, i think, i want kensi first. been thinking this, it also gives me more time to make up the search, UMD and DD skills, before 20. I'll have to pull the others up later.

Once again thanks for the imput, its helping alot.

[wax_on_wax_off]

If you can afford them, absolutely take them. That is especially true on a build with decent strength. A lot of people look down on the THF line, because it used to be worth much less than it currently is; but in the game as it now stands, unless you're a twitch-fighter (which you shouldn't be), the THF line amounts to a huge increase in DPS.

Why shouldn't you be a twitch-fighter? In fact, I can't think of any build which is more suited to the twitch style of combat. You don't get sneak attacks on glancing blows so forgoing the feats and relying on twitching will see an 18% increase in attack speed (and 18% more sneak attacks) which will certainly be higher single target DPS surely?

Obviously having the THF line of feats doesn't preclude twitching and there are other advantages of the feats but for single target DPS they will never be king for a rogue.

I'm not saying you shouldn't take them, I just think it opens up interesting possibilities when there is such flexibility with feats (power attack is the only *must have* feat, even IC:B won't give a significant increase in DPS).

[The_Phenx]

Let me define twitch first since there are two meanings of it in this game.

#1 running amock all over the place beating everything instead of standing in 1 spot permanently. This is totally fine and works well with the build :) Because as you said missing a glancing blow or two isnt a killer.

#2 Having a seizure in the hopes of increasing your dps. This works horribly with staffs, I know it works with great ax's, swords, and mauls, but interrupting the chain with a staff actually dramatically slows your dps. The acrobat animation path and swing speed work out better if you just leave it be.

But yes I consider the THF non manditory. Acrobats only have a couple mandatory additions. Power Attack, Toughness, IC:Bludgeon (My opinion here) which leaves 4 feats to customize with. But you do loose a significant amount of DPS if you don't go THF line.

I would love to see someone go CE dodge spring attack whirlwind just to see the animation :)

[drac317]

I would love to see someone go CE dodge spring attack whirlwind just to see the animation :)
had thought about this, might try it before i tr again.

if i do ill try to post info and vids of it

[The_Phenx]

had thought about this, might try it before i tr again.

if i do ill try to post info and vids of it

oooOOOO goody :D

I gotta get some fraps of prey in here... been saying it for ages.

[voodoogroves]

You might want to mention the shadow staff on one of your staff lists. It's a great substitute for Dreamspitter if you don't have it, plus you can stack on something like Petrifying, Bloody, etc.

[Ebforest60]

Now that the anniversary event is returning I'm thinking about grinding out some gear for my Acrobat TR...but I don't see anything that makes me drool. Sure some of them are okay...maybe I'm missing something. Anyone have thoughts on the gear? Is anything in there a must have.

If it matters I'm following the Bigger F'n Stick path, and I'm at level 9 now.

[voodoogroves]

If you're not using Minos Legens in your head slot, I'm a fan of swappable hats. Plus they have pirate style!

Here's what I've started and will finish during the event:

Seeker 6 / some skill 15
CHA 6 / concentration 15 - for UMD situations
INT 6 / disable device +15
possibly bluff, diplo and intim hats for dialogs

The Brawlers Bracers aren't bad if you're not going to be using Tharnes Goggles. Esp. if you're using a spyglass.

A Bold trinket is good too, if seeker isn't a bloodstone (like, say, on a hat). I'm also going to work a Stalwart one to use when the seeker 2 isn't as useful as the earthen guard.

The duelist leathers aren't bad for a non-monk build as well.

The trinkets at least are useful for 9th level folks, and the hats will be useful in the mid-teens.

[Ebforest60]

My acrobat is a TR from a Rogue/Ranger/Monk so I've got the Minos and Bloodstone (plust some other ok gear though I didn't raid much at all before TRing.) I'm looking to gear up for 20th level as it seems to me that most of the stuff below that level ends up getting replaced by then. I thought about the hats but the HP from Minos is hard to give up (not to mention the Heavy Fortification.) The trinkets are really nice too, but again then I give up seeker from the Bloodstone...how to mix and match this stuff to get the most bang for the buck.

/raises fist

"Curse you DDO devs for making an event with rewards that make me have to choose! Choice?! What is wrong with you people? How do you expect to make money if you require your playerbase to THINK?"

/skluks away pondering gear setups. :D

[voodoogroves]

I've basically decided the 20 HP from the Minos isn't as worth it to me as seeker 6 there + 2 on the trinket. I'm getting the gear set now so it'll be ready when I TR, but yeah ... no Minos.



I kinda feel a little dirty saying that.


That said, I think I'll be good for HP. Good enough at least. I've gathered enough gear and have enough stuff set in place that I should be in a happy spot when I TR the toon.

[IronClan]

I've basically decided the 20 HP from the Minos isn't as worth it to me as seeker 6 there + 2 on the trinket. I'm getting the gear set now so it'll be ready when I TR, but yeah ... no Minos.



I kinda feel a little dirty saying that.


That said, I think I'll be good for HP. Good enough at least. I've gathered enough gear and have enough stuff set in place that I should be in a happy spot when I TR the toon.

You can get the toughness from Minos in an augment slot, same toughness bonus, stacks with everything (including shroud 45 HP item) excepting itself (Minos).

Assuming something like Garments of Equilibrium or some other source of heavy fort, Seeker 6 and +15 Conc seems like a great hat, especially considering that without those 20 HP from Minos, you can now freely swap hats without losing HP's.

That hat frees your trinket slot (and maybe saves you 1.8mil plat or a lot of sands runs) for the bold trinket, the Shocking blow on the trinket frees your gloves from charged gauntlets, which allows Brawlers gloves (or Claw set maybe depending on what bracers you like) the gloves have +4 Sneak attack... Which means you don't need to put Tharnes in your goggles slot...

IMO that might be the nicest (certainly easiest) series of slot-saver-rearrangers and plat savers and grind reducers EVAH!

P.S. no need for Tharnes means you don't have a great goggles option, so you can put GS 45 HP goggles in that slot... And those goggles can have +6 Constitution skills and Heavy Fort and +5 Prot...

Meaning you can...

**** that event loot is some good stuff

[Ebforest60]

Thanks Ironclan! That is the kind of thinking I'm looking for, I guess I just don't "see" the gear options in my head. I need a Players Handbook to leaf through and see all my choices.

Maybe I'll browse the Wiki and see what else I can come up with.

[voodoogroves]

You can get the toughness from Minos in an augment slot, same toughness bonus, stacks with everything (including shroud 45 HP item) excepting itself (Minos).

Assuming something like Garments of Equilibrium or some other source of heavy fort, Seeker 6 and +15 Conc seems like a great hat, especially considering that without those 20 HP from Minos, you can now freely swap hats without losing HP's.

That hat frees your trinket slot (and maybe saves you 1.8mil plat or a lot of sands runs) for the bold trinket, the Shocking blow on the trinket frees your gloves from charged gauntlets, which allows Brawlers gloves (or Claw set maybe depending on what bracers you like) the gloves have +4 Sneak attack... Which means you don't need to put Tharnes in your goggles slot...

IMO that might be the nicest (certainly easiest) series of slot-saver-rearrangers and plat savers and grind reducers EVAH!

P.S. no need for Tharnes means you don't have a great goggles option, so you can put GS 45 HP goggles in that slot... And those goggles can have +6 Constitution skills and Heavy Fort and +5 Prot...

Meaning you can...

**** that event loot is some good stuff

That's very similar to what I'm building, though I'm staring at the belt for heavy fort/45hp since I've got CON in a neck slot. This is my leveling thoughts for the next life; epic will move some stuff around. Note I'm planning on a monk-dip-stick.

Head: Hat swaps
Neck: CON/TOD - Verik, Nyoko, Oremi, Shintao
Belt: 45 hp heavy fort
Cloak: Cloak of Night (level 12 and level 20 - I like carrying the 12 for guard-free times) + swaps (Mirror Cloak, CHA skills, etc.)
Ring: Tumbleweed // possibly ring of the mire // swap ring
Ring: TOD matching ring
Armor: DT w/ Resistance or GFL // stat or healing amp // guard or damage avoidance (earthen)
Bracers: Jidz, Deftness, Chaosguards, whatever (swap for Ventilated)
Gloves: STR if not on the ring slot
Trinket: Bold (seeker) + swaps (spyglass, for instance)
Boots: Swaps including FF, striders, mire (UA + strider)

I've got both Icy and DT options, so could go with a bit of AC if I chose.

[The_Phenx]

You might want to mention the shadow staff on one of your staff lists. It's a great substitute for Dreamspitter if you don't have it, plus you can stack on something like Petrifying, Bloody, etc.


http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=3577349&postcount=1470 :) way ahead of ya bud.

[The_Phenx]

the Shocking blow on the trinket frees your gloves from charged gauntlets

Epic charged gauntlets have no save. The trinket does.

[drac317]

Epic charged gauntlets have no save. The trinket does.
but the two of them stack :D

[The_Phenx]

BIG BIG BIG changes coming up for us.

A absolutely gigantic DPS boost.




Monsters that are helpless take 50% additional damage from all sources, including normal attacks, spells, or environmental effects (before damage reduction is applied). A critical hit on a helpless monster will deal 50% additional critical damage as expected.



Yes this means ALL sources.. including sneak attacks. The biggest boost oddly enough is going to go to dex based acrobats, this should being them on par with the str based crowd even despite the lack of 1.5x for THF.

TO explain fully this is what Held/Stoned/Stunned is becoming... no more Auto Crit.

So acros should be able to see sneak attack numbers north of 160 pts a swing.

[Cardtrick]

Yes this means ALL sources.. including sneak attacks. The biggest boost oddly enough is going to go to dex based acrobats, this should being them on par with the str based crowd even despite the lack of 1.5x for THF.

TO explain fully this is what Held/Stoned/Stunned is becoming... no more Auto Crit.

So acros should be able to see sneak attack numbers north of 160 pts a swing.

This is true -- overall, this change is a boon to rogues with high sneak attacks. It will be a much bigger help to Assassin rogues than Acrobat rogues, but it's good for both. On the downside, this is a significant nerf to the 13/6/1 acrobat 2/kensai 1 builds who relied on autocrits from stunning blow for a big portion of their DPS. I'm glad that I'll be TRing mine before the update hits.

It's also a nerf to what I consider the "big 3" of attainable named staffs: Dreamspitter, (Bloody/Petrifying) Shadow Staff, and Rahl's Might. All 3 of those were useful for their on-crit affects (woo stick level draining for the first two, and x3 multiplier for Rahl's). They'll still be useful, but much less so.

[kernal42]

It's also a nerf to what I consider the "big 3" of attainable named staffs: Dreamspitter, (Bloody/Petrifying) Shadow Staff, and Rahl's Might. All 3 of those were useful for their on-crit affects (woo stick level draining for the first two, and x3 multiplier for Rahl's). They'll still be useful, but much less so.

I'm moderately pleased that I no longer need to wonder about what staff I should use in epics.

Epic Souleater ftw!

-Kernal

[The_Phenx]

I don't know if anyone caught it, but Genasi posted that they are fixing dreamspitter and the shadow staff to work on crit instead of a chance to work on crit...

now a guaranteed level drain 10% of swings.

[Braxion]

So I had a halfling rogue that I turned into a mule years ago (the cap was 16). After reading this thread, I did an alignment change +3 heart and then capped the toon at 17/3.

The hardest thing about playing this toon is waiting, not rushing into battle first and beating things up. The Sneak Attack Damage on this toon is pretty big, so lots of waiting and then flanking. Otherwise, This build is a blast, and I didn't even have any good gear to start with. As of now I have only used a few +2 tomes (which where sitting in the mule's bank).

Here is my gear so far:

DT vestments (+5 resist, +6 str, radiance guard)
Mino Helm
DI +5 Prot necklace / Cartouche / Divine Power clickie
+6 wis ring / +6 int ring / Haste clickie
+6 con ring
30% striders (btw this toon moves FAST)
+6 dex gloves
+8 armor bracers
Epic SpyGlass with +2 Luck / Mummified Bat
Blindness Ward spot goggles / DD goggles
Bards Cloak / Accomplice / Jungle Cloak

My top staffs so far:

Rahl's might Upgraded with Forceburst
Bloody Staff of the Shadow
DreamSpitter Upgraded with Holy

My wants and farming:

Saving up to build a GS either Rad2 or Lit2
Running VOD for the Tharnes set
Shining crescents, Chattering Ring, Seven fingered gloves (really dude to lack of people running this and loot drop, these will be a casual "nice" to have)

Possible wants / Pipe Dreams:
Epic SoulEater
Epic Chrono Gloves & Bracers

[The_Phenx]

The waiting a second goes away once you have radiance or are playing with harder hitting groups, but yes I know. You itch to kill. Thats why I have Prey geared to all hell so I can ignore that pause.

Its a rogue thing... :D

[voodoogroves]

Bluff should help with this in U9; hot-bar that sucker!

[The_Phenx]

Bluff should help with this in U9; hot-bar that sucker!

I know bluff just got a HUGE boost. 4 seconds of sneak attack guaranteed. I am actually wondering if it will be better than diplo now.

[voodoogroves]

I thought I'd cross-linked this already, but for stick-followers out there ... monk related ...

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=3671790&postcount=7


We weren't very happy with it, so in Update 9:

The Karmic Strike finisher no longer leaves the monk helpless. The effect has changed to "Fire-Dark-Fire Finisher - You have learned to strike at the moment your opponent is most vulnerable - the same moment your opponent strikes you. This attack is guaranteed to produce critical threat if it hits, but costs 20 hit points to perform."

Thematically similar, but much more usable.

20 HP is steep, but combined w/ the Shadow Staff and Dreamspitter you can still drain levels on the monk-mixed Acrobats.

The other dark-mix finishers are attractive sounding, but likely hard to "stick". Air-dark-air in particular would be fun (blind) but the fort save is probably going to be tragically low for acrobats.

[wax_on_wax_off]

I thought I'd cross-linked this already, but for stick-followers out there ... monk related ...

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=3671790&postcount=7



20 HP is steep, but combined w/ the Shadow Staff and Dreamspitter you can still drain levels on the monk-mixed Acrobats.

The other dark-mix finishers are attractive sounding, but likely hard to "stick". Air-dark-air in particular would be fun (blind) but the fort save is probably going to be tragically low for acrobats.

Great idea here to still be able to do some level draining in U9. However, you'd need 6 monk levels to be able to do it decently (fire II - dark - fire I - finisher). Otherwise it takes too long to wait for fire I to cool down.

[voodoogroves]

Great idea here to still be able to do some level draining in U9. However, you'd need 6 monk levels to be able to do it decently (fire II - dark - fire I - finisher). Otherwise it takes too long to wait for fire I to cool down.

Absolutely agree. If you're not going pure though, 6 monk isn't bad for Ninja Spy 1; that's only 1 less sneak die (since you get the bonus from Ninja Spy) and gives you Shadow Fade as a dark move you can intersperse.

I'd think 13 rogue / 6 monk / 1 x ... where X is likely either more Monk or Fighter 1.

This would probably be best served w/ the Shadow Staff as opposed to Dreamspitter since the Vampiric will offset your HP drain. That'd also be Animal Path 2, FWIW.

[Failedlegend]

I'm sure people already know but unless its a bug on Lammania it seems any monk abilities that used to bge "Character" Lvl have been switched to "Monk" level so splashes got a slap in the face....on the other hand Stunning Fist can now be taken by anyone...not that its all that useful when stunning blow is so much easier to boost the DC

[The_Phenx]

Ya I saw that.

I was gonna wait and see how the chips fall first to see what to do.

But Im already cooking up a 12/7/1 Wizzy monk fighter thing... :)

Not to replace prey.. since 20 rogue acros are gonna get a large boost.

[reidlim]

Ya I saw that.

I was gonna wait and see how the chips fall first to see what to do.

But Im already cooking up a 12/7/1 Wizzy monk fighter thing... :)

Not to replace prey.. since 20 rogue acros are gonna get a large boost.

I am current a 13rog/6mnk/1ftr. Followed Ugly Stick. Now I am looking at TR'ing but has yet to decide which to go till you mentioned the above. Would someone please explain what big boost?

Thank you very much.

[wax_on_wax_off]

I'm sure people already know but unless its a bug on Lammania it seems any monk abilities that used to bge "Character" Lvl have been switched to "Monk" level so splashes got a slap in the face....on the other hand Stunning Fist can now be taken by anyone...not that its all that useful when stunning blow is so much easier to boost the DC

Stunning fist is off character level though meaning that it will be a base 10 points higher than stunning blow. That'll mean you'll need 20 more strength than wisdom to have a higher DC and then still have to contend with a cooldown of 6 seconds compared to the 15 seconds on stunning blow.

Optimal monk splashes from U9 onwards will always be TWF with stunning fist (and probably stunning blow as well), imo (even khopesh wielding monk splashes will swap to wraps to land the stuns I'd suggest).

[The_Phenx]

I am current a 13rog/6mnk/1ftr. Followed Ugly Stick. Now I am looking at TR'ing but has yet to decide which to go till you mentioned the above. Would someone please explain what big boost?

Thank you very much.


Sorry it took a couple days for me to get to this.. my internet has been dead.

The boost WAS going to be +50% damage to helpless mobs including sneak attack damage.

They have rescinded this however and just replaced it by saying.


I spent a few minutes this morning discussing this situation with some folks on the development team. There is a belief that rogues are currently in a decently balanced spot and adjustments will be made if that proves not to be correct. So, the current approach on this is going to be to monitor the situation. You are very unlikely to see any change before Update 9 goes Live.

Flame away, but that is where the development team currently stands.

So ignore my previous comment. HOWEVER... with a rahls might we should be able to see single hits north of 350 pts. 175 +50% + force burst +50% + S/A

It also seems like they are trying to improve the usefulness of cleave for those that took it.

After this mod goes live we will also need some fo the 17/3 builds to make sure that all their powers still work, or if I need to update the build.

[The_Phenx]

Stunning fist is off character level though meaning that it will be a base 10 points higher than stunning blow. That'll mean you'll need 20 more strength than wisdom to have a higher DC and then still have to contend with a cooldown of 6 seconds compared to the 15 seconds on stunning blow.

Optimal monk splashes from U9 onwards will always be TWF with stunning fist (and probably stunning blow as well), imo (even khopesh wielding monk splashes will swap to wraps to land the stuns I'd suggest).

SO on a 20th level toon its a base 20dc for stunning fist? Does this only work with handwraps? Still CHar level + wis mod + Weapon mod? or...

[Cardtrick]

It also seems like they are trying to improve the usefulness of cleave for those that took it.

After this mod goes live we will also need some fo the 17/3 builds to make sure that all their powers still work, or if I need to update the build.

Yeah, I expect that I will be updating my build to take Great Cleave (already have cleave). Sneak attacks and full damage on a wide arc of enemies, with no break in attack rate? Yes, please.

[Aeolwind]

I'm TR'ing into a stick build. I have most of the relevent staves, Rahl's Might made it's save and evaded =(.

Modified somewhat from Ugly Stick, since I'll have 34 point build I went with human. Feats are the only thing I'm not sure about. Any and all feedback is appreciated.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.2
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Aeolwind HandsomeStick
Level 20 Lawful Neutral Human Male
(1 Fighter \ 6 Monk \ 13 Rogue)
Hit Points: 320
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 14\14\19\24
Fortitude: 15
Reflex: 18
Will: 12

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(34 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 16 23
Dexterity 15 20
Constitution 15 18
Intelligence 12 14
Wisdom 12 16
Charisma 8 10

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 6 22
Bluff 3 10
Concentration 2 28
Diplomacy 3 10
Disable Device 5 25
Haggle -1 0
Heal 1 3
Hide 6 11
Intimidate -1 0
Jump 7 26
Listen 1 3
Move Silently 2 5
Open Lock 6 28
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 1 2
Search 5 25
Spot 5 26
Swim 3 6
Tumble 3 12
Use Magic Device 2 26

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Cleric
Feat: (Human Bonus) Toughness
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Improved Balance I


Level 2 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Dodge
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Improved Jump I
Enhancement: Improved Tumble I


Level 3 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Bludgeoning Weapons
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I


Level 4 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise I
Enhancement: Void Strike I
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom I


Level 5 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Inevitable Dominion: Fists of Darkness
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Constitution I


Level 6 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Static Charge
Enhancement: Improved Balance II
Enhancement: Improved Jump II


Level 7 (Monk)
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise II
Enhancement: Improved Tumble II


Level 8 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness
Enhancement: Monk Ninja Spy I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I


Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Adept of Wind
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II


Level 10 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom II


Level 11 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I


Level 12 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II


Level 13 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Thief-Acrobat I


Level 14 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost III
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing II


Level 15 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II


Level 16 (Rogue)


Level 17 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost IV
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing III


Level 18 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Use Magic Device
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity III


Level 19 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Thief-Acrobat II


Level 20 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Opportunist
Enhancement: Rogue Item Defense I
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III




Gear:
Minos
Tharnes
Epic Buccaneer/Tumbleweed
Lies
SilverFlame
GS Immunities
GS HP/ConOpp
Brawling
Madstone
Mabar
Con/Resist DT
Bloodstone
Dreamspitter


Took spot cause I have a terrible memory for traps, not like it'll matter with evasion though.

[Cardtrick]

Took spot cause I have a terrible memory for traps, not like it'll matter with evasion though. Would going 12/8 Rogue/Monk be more beneficial to get the 5th attack?

Build looks solid. Feats are good, assuming the live versions of the Cleave/Great Cleave feats work as described. I'd take either stunning blow or stunning fist rather than the second toughness. I don't really see why you're pushing dex as high as you are, and I would increase strength more, but it's fine.

I definitely wouldn't go 12/8 rogue/monk. I value Improved Evasion and Opportunist too highly. Is there even a fifth attack anymore? I thought that no longer existed . . .

[Aeolwind]

Build looks solid. Feats are good, assuming the live versions of the Cleave/Great Cleave feats work as described. I'd take either stunning blow or stunning fist rather than the second toughness. I don't really see why you're pushing dex as high as you are, and I would increase strength more, but it's fine.

I definitely wouldn't go 12/8 rogue/monk. I value Improved Evasion and Opportunist too highly. Is there even a fifth attack anymore? I thought that no longer existed . . .

Good question on the dex. I needed dex3 for Acrobat and the +2 tome so I based the stats straight off ugly stick. I'm looking to diplo **** off so AC isn't a focus.

I didn't figure the DC's would be good enough for blow/fist so I skipped it. I could easily dump umd focus and the 2nd toughness and I think I can find a place for quickdraw.

*Edit* 38 for Fist, better than I expected.

[wax_on_wax_off]

SO on a 20th level toon its a base 20dc for stunning fist? Does this only work with handwraps? Still CHar level + wis mod + Weapon mod? or...

Yep, 10 base + 10 levels + 10 stunning wraps + wisdom modifier (10-12?) + tactics/enhancements (2-3?) = win!

Situational use in epics perhaps (vs low fort mobs like casters and rogues), not sure what the success rate vs epic high fort mobs would be (perhaps not great). Yeah, stunning fist is cool.

[SetofBs]

I am putting together a stick build of my own. Let's say all of my other feats are non-negotiable and am picking one last one, do you go cleave or GTHF? With the new animations I am thinking a cleave of sneak attacks has got to be deadly...

[Cardtrick]

I am putting together a stick build of my own. Let's say all of my other feats are non-negotiable and am picking one last one, do you go cleave or GTHF? With the new animations I am thinking a cleave of sneak attacks has got to be deadly...

If you're already taking THF and ITHF, I think you really ought to take GTHF. Without GTHF, you get glancing blows on 2 of your 4 attack animations; with it, you get them on 3 of 4. That's in addition the damage increase. So if you're investing in THF at all, I think you really should go the whole way. (Not all two-handed builds should take the THF feats, of course; but if you do, you should generally take all 3, since THF and ITHF are of marginal utility compared to GTHF.)

That's assuming you have a decent strength and aren't planning to rely mostly on sneak attacks for your damage. If you're going pure rogue, dex-based, for example (which I think is a very bad idea for a stick build, but that's besides the point), then your glancing blows simply won't be very useful. The extra sneak attacks from Cleave would be better.

[Arlathen]

Has no one considered the Monk variant with the new change to Earth stance?



As a recap (as current implementation on Lammania) for those that missed it:

Earth Stance 3 & 4 increase the critical multiplier of a weapon by +1 on a natural roll of a 19 or 20.
So essentially, all your critical hits with Improved Critical: Bludgeon would result in a x3 multiplier on a Staff, or a x4 with Rahls Might.

Of course, this means a minimum of 12 Monk levels for Earth Stance 3, which skews any potential build away from heavy Sneak Attack. I was thinking along the lines of maybe a Monk13/Rogue7 build, Dark Path for Ninja Spy2 and a 7D6 Sneak Attack, combined with Thief-Acrobat 1 for the base +10% Competence speed increase.

Thoughts? Ideas? Room for improvement? Or is this sacrificing too much Competence Speed and Sneak Attack for Monk abilities and that +1 Crit Multiplier?

Edit: PS Before anyone runs off to build this variant, I suspect this Monk Stance change to get nerfed in following patches, as 12 Monk levels and Earth Stance 3 is to easy to build around. I have on paper a Monk12/Paladin7/Fighter TWF WSS Longsword Build that would have comparable DPS output to Khopeshes, more if the player is hot on the Paladin and Monk clicky attacks. Divine Sacrifice on a pair of Dream Edges would result in x5 Crit hits...

[The_Phenx]

I don't really see why you're pushing dex as high as you are, and I would increase strength more, but it's fine.

Obviously everything is open to interpretation.

The reason I build dex high is because it adds to damage just like str for TA's so there is no damage lost... just +1 th.

The difference between 14 and 16 dex is easier to acquire than 16 to 18 str and free's up stat points for more con int and a lil wis for ac since monk splashes can get pretty high so its situationally very useful.

But ya you could always dump stat wisdom and push str higher, I prefer a l tiny loss in damage to a big gain in survivability.

[The_Phenx]

Modified somewhat from Ugly Stick, since I'll have 34 point build I went with human. Feats are the only thing I'm not sure about. Any and all feedback is appreciated.

Took spot cause I have a terrible memory for traps, not like it'll matter with evasion though. Would going 12/8 Rogue/Monk be more beneficial to get the 5th attack?

Me personally I would drop weapon focus. The +5 from CE is very helpful when you want to push a super high ac.

Me I have a hot bar with....SOS outfit with Prot 5 and Insight 4 on it and a epic Nat Gann... chug a bark pot umd a shield wand throw on CE ... hit imp uncanny dodge & showtime... and im above 80 Ac within secconds...

I agree with dropping 2nd tough for stunning fist. Definately if you can hit a 38 which will work great everywhere but epic, and some of the time there.

[Rusty_Can]

Me personally I would drop Dodge for Combat Expertise. The +1 AC isnt going to mean anything in the long haul, BUT the +5 from CE is very helpful when you want to push a super high ac.

Dropping Dodge would mean giving up Ninja Spy I, Shadow Fade and 1d6 sneak-attack damage.

Edit: if you really wanna (or need to) drop something, drop Weapon Focus: Bludgeoning.

[The_Phenx]

Annnndddd commentfixed.

I haven't done too much of the multiclass thing lately, or had coffee

[SetofBs]

If you're already taking THF and ITHF, I think you really ought to take GTHF. Without GTHF, you get glancing blows on 2 of your 4 attack animations; with it, you get them on 3 of 4. That's in addition the damage increase. So if you're investing in THF at all, I think you really should go the whole way. (Not all two-handed builds should take the THF feats, of course; but if you do, you should generally take all 3, since THF and ITHF are of marginal utility compared to GTHF.)

That's assuming you have a decent strength and aren't planning to rely mostly on sneak attacks for your damage. If you're going pure rogue, dex-based, for example (which I think is a very bad idea for a stick build, but that's besides the point), then your glancing blows simply won't be very useful. The extra sneak attacks from Cleave would be better.

Thanks, I didn't know that about the animations and thus how valuable GTHF is. Maybe I'll have to rethink my build a bit (I'm trying to fit dragonmarks in on a halfling 13 rogue/6 monk/1x build).

[OldAquarian]

Thanks, I didn't know that about the animations and thus how valuable GTHF is. Maybe I'll have to rethink my build a bit (I'm trying to fit dragonmarks in on a halfling 13 rogue/6 monk/1x build).

you should have enough slots for the feats you need - and I think you'll need GTHF:

Not necessarily in this order

1 Least DM
3 Lesser DM
6 Greater DM
9 iTHF
12 gTHF
15 Imp Crit:Bludgeon
18 Quickdraw

M1: Toughness
M2: THF
M6: Power Attack

Only thing you might want that won't fit is Stunning Blow - But if you take the X as Fighter, you can have that too

[Valindria]

Not that I play my acrobat...really ever, but I was thinking with u9 I will add improved fent. I have SB and Improved Trip on him already. The changes to bluff (in theory) make me think improved feint could be worthwhile. Does anyone know if racial improved DCs work for Improved feint? His original plan was 13/6/1 Rogue/Monk/Fighter already.

[Aeolwind]

Me personally I would drop weapon focus. The +5 from CE is very helpful when you want to push a super high ac.

Me I have a hot bar with....SOS outfit with Prot 5 and Insight 4 on it and a epic Nat Gann... chug a bark pot umd a shield wand throw on CE ... hit imp uncanny dodge & showtime... and im above 80 Ac within secconds...

I agree with dropping 2nd tough for stunning fist. Definately if you can hit a 38 which will work great everywhere but epic, and some of the time there.

I hate missing or relying on bards/GH to hit stuff consistently, hence why I grabbed focus. I love the AC angle you take on it, but I didn't set my gear in that direction.

[The_Phenx]

I hate missing or relying on bards/GH to hit stuff consistently, hence why I grabbed focus. I love the AC angle you take on it, but I didn't set my gear in that direction.

I have two sets of gear... its not really very hard to dual purpose a toon...

I built my fighter this way, rogues... In fact I dread making a toon that cant self heal and excape almost any given situation.

As for reliance. Use Rahls might has improve destruction, Use Spectral gloves for the +2 to hit (same as bard song) +4 for epic gloves.

UMD GH scrolls...

If your doing it right (IMHO) support from party members is a bonus, not a necessity.

[SetofBs]

you should have enough slots for the feats you need - and I think you'll need GTHF:

Not necessarily in this order

1 Least DM
3 Lesser DM
6 Greater DM
9 iTHF
12 gTHF
15 Imp Crit:Bludgeon
18 Quickdraw

M1: Toughness
M2: THF
M6: Power Attack

Only thing you might want that won't fit is Stunning Blow - But if you take the X as Fighter, you can have that too

I was planning on taking Ninja spy I, so I need dodge. I would take that instead of quick draw. And yeah, that all works out. Except I wanted cleave too. In fact, I also wanted combat expertise. So now I'm left deciding between the THF line on one hand and three of CE/cleave/great cleave/quickdraw/stunning blow on the other.

I originally wasn't planning to take stunning blow, because without a way to get tactics DC's up I didn't think it would be that effective (no fighter DC boosts, no power surge, no racial tactics, etc).

[The_Phenx]

Well once you get your UMD up there dragonmarks are kinda a moot point

[Alyiakal]

Yep, 10 base + 10 levels + 10 stunning wraps + wisdom modifier (10-12?) + tactics/enhancements (2-3?) = win!

Situational use in epics perhaps (vs low fort mobs like casters and rogues), not sure what the success rate vs epic high fort mobs would be (perhaps not great). Yeah, stunning fist is cool.

I've looked in the release notes, and I can't seem to find this change anywhere. Is it from testing it? If this is true, it's a welcome change (although it will cause more weapon swapping!).

I have the Kensai I version of this build right now, and I was originally planning on TRing to a less smashy race than Half-Orc and dumping the fighter levels (as the stuns don't really work well in non-trivial content) for perhaps more monk and Ninja Spy. With the backtracking on the helplessness damage for sneak attacks, I am wondering if this is no longer a good idea.

[Rusty_Can]

I've looked in the release notes, and I can't seem to find this change anywhere. Is it from testing it? If this is true, it's a welcome change (although it will cause more weapon swapping!).


A couple of devs posted on the topic: here (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=3682578&postcount=41) and here (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=3686309&postcount=15).

[voodoogroves]

I was planning on taking Ninja spy I, so I need dodge. I would take that instead of quick draw. And yeah, that all works out. Except I wanted cleave too. In fact, I also wanted combat expertise. So now I'm left deciding between the THF line on one hand and three of CE/cleave/great cleave/quickdraw/stunning blow on the other.

I originally wasn't planning to take stunning blow, because without a way to get tactics DC's up I didn't think it would be that effective (no fighter DC boosts, no power surge, no racial tactics, etc).

You might consider CE / Quickdraw / Improved Trip as well; that's +4 and a longer trip duration ... if you want to bother with tactics. If you are doing tactics, I'd strongly suggest one of the tactics races (dwarf, WF) or half-elf and also go Fighter Dilettante, taking the +1 STR and tactics boosts there.

[comotose]

I have been following your horc ugly stick build fairly closely and I noticed something today I found curious. In the FAQ and a few other places Crippling Strike is talked about being very good with the Radiance 2 QS. I noticed in that build you forgo Crippling Strike. I am really just curious why lol.

[The_Phenx]

I have been following your horc ugly stick build fairly closely and I noticed something today I found curious. In the FAQ and a few other places Crippling Strike is talked about being very good with the Radiance 2 QS. I noticed in that build you forgo Crippling Strike. I am really just curious why lol.

Easy :)

Crippling strike is very good.. at low levels... think before you get to the vale of twilight.

Once you hit the vale Amarath and epics it becomes next to useless, mobs have tooo much strength for it to be a viable source of crowd control. And for things with low str like beholders and certain casters its just as fast to stun them with a w/e staff.

When a lot of those conversations were taking place the level cap was 16, and things were a tad different.

So when presented with a 13/6/1 request I tried to look at it from a endgame viability perspective. And givent hat you can only get 2 of the rogue specialty feats I felt the most useful ones were the Opportunist and Improved Evasion.

Bear in mind that I dont actually play that particular build... it was just a response to a lot of PM's form people and a lot of posts asking how I would do a half orc 13/6/1 so if there is anything you feel as a player that could use improvement or adjustment, post it up, its always open for tinkering. Like dropping combat expertise for cleave.. which I will probably adjust into it now that they have "fixed" cleave.

[Ebforest60]

Sorry if this has been discussed while u9 was on Lama (I try to keep up with the thread but...)

Has anyone played with the new Bluff/Diplo? Is it now better to go Bluff and get your sneaks regardless of who has aggro AND letting others get them? I realize Diplomacy is still nice to have to keep my squishy self from certain death but I solo a fair amount and I'm wondering how the whole Bluff mechanic works now.

Thoughts/experiences?

[The_Phenx]

WIthout testing yet.. My thoguhts are bluff is going to be the way to go as a rogue. Unless you just cleaved a whole room of mobs diplo is gonna be not worth the investment.

[Quarterling]

Sorry if this has been discussed while u9 was on Lama (I try to keep up with the thread but...)

Has anyone played with the new Bluff/Diplo? Is it now better to go Bluff and get your sneaks regardless of who has aggro AND letting others get them? I realize Diplomacy is still nice to have to keep my squishy self from certain death but I solo a fair amount and I'm wondering how the whole Bluff mechanic works now.

Thoughts/experiences?

Yes, it is VERY nice. Also, another option if you are going for an AC Thief-Acrobat build, you can get Improved Feint since you will probably also be getting CE. Improved Feint has an 8 second cooldown (must shorter than bluff's) and it works just as well.

[Synthetic]

Bluff is ridiculously good for a rogue. It works at a decent range and doesn't stop you from running at your target. So just run at a Guy point your finger and sneak attack away.

[Ebforest60]

Bluff is ridiculously good for a rogue. It works at a decent range and doesn't stop you from running at your target. So just run at a Guy point your finger and sneak attack away.

That is what I thought...now to find a Lesser Heart so I can fix my skill points. /sigh

[Valindria]

Sorry if this has been discussed while u9 was on Lama (I try to keep up with the thread but...)

Has anyone played with the new Bluff/Diplo? Is it now better to go Bluff and get your sneaks regardless of who has aggro AND letting others get them? I realize Diplomacy is still nice to have to keep my squishy self from certain death but I solo a fair amount and I'm wondering how the whole Bluff mechanic works now.

Thoughts/experiences?

The following is what I reported. I was thinking of my HElf Assassin Build at the time so some of the comments are talking about that. In the build I was looking at I would have to drop PA to fit in Improved Feint (and prereq). I was theory crafting the idea of useing IF, Bluff, and HElf Bluff on the same target. If my acrobat wins a +1 heart lottery I might LR to include bluff instead of diplomacy. Since they share a cooldown it's one or the other. I would say on a Acrobat splashed toon like I had planned (13/6/1 Rogue/Monk/Fighter) it would be worth maxing bluff and taking improved feint. Pure rogue might have issues with other feats to fit it in. My rogue acrobat as been level 10 for over a year+ and I play others more often. I tested mostly for theorycrafting purposes.


To quote myself:



I was able to do a little testing on Lam. The LR was not working so I had to create a level 4 rogue to mess around with. Turns out it was because my lam account didn't have 32 point builds.

Global Cooldowns and lag between skills make it hard to chain though the bluff/SA combo. It still works but I was having issue with the monster moving and also saving vs bluff. Improved Feint (IF) is nice as it does not disrupt your attacking. So in theory you can just wail on a monster and if he turns to you can just hit the button and keep going. You also get a -25% threat reduction buff so the extra damage you do at that point might not matter. It seems like you get it even if you fail but it might be bugged.

Diplomacy and Bluff have the same cooldown. This was annoying but might not be an issue. Use bluff 1st and if they become immune then use diplomacy. The HElf diplomacy and bluff are kind of worthless since they have a 30 second cooldown. If you have IF and Bluff chances are you wont be without an ability to bluff.

I was not able to test with quickdraw. That could be something to check out too, though it adds another feat into the mix. Quickdraw would help with haste boost and other things though so it is not a total waste.

I am also curious of the bonus a monster gets to resist bluff is for all characters or just the person bluffing. Could be interesting to have 2 rogues with IF alternating every 4 seconds.

I go back and forth. It's one of those things where with proper target selection and potentially just Diplomacy you could get by without it. I still think it could be viable. Wade up to a group of enemies and pop a Diplomacy to start wailing on a target. If it turns, use your I.F. and keep wailing on it. It might be one of those things that helps with leveling and then later swaps in Power Attack. If there was a way to get I.F without losing PA (i.e. can take the skill as a rogue bonus feat) then it could see some play. At the end of the day 17d6 > the 5 damage PA adds to hit, but 17d6 +5 > than 17d6. You could still max Bluff as you leveled and if you pulled aggro use it. The issue is more that you have to stop attacking, hit bluff, then start attacking again.

I still think HElf is a good choice for race with all martial weapons and a +2 bonus to bluff/diplo even if you never use the HElf social skills. I thought about if I was human I could get an extra feat but then I would be stuck using rapiers or simple weapons, or master touch via UMD.

[The_Phenx]

GOnna test diplo tonight... but I have a feeling that the 4 second auto sneak from bluff will far outweigh anything diplo can do. Re-spec in the future...

[Ebforest60]

With U9, if I'm reading correctly, Souleater will cast slay living on all vorpal hits. In my short testing today in Menechtarun on 7 natural 20 rolls the effect did not proc once (though bodyfeeder did on all crits.) Can anyone else confirm this, or is my poor halfling the only one getting this?

I bugged it just in case and will test more after kids are in bed.

edit: Still no proc on Souleater for me. Can anyone else confirm this?

edit2: Tested in WW on kobolds and a troll in Sorrowdusk, still nothing. Is this still a chance to proc on 20 and I'm having bad luck or is it ALL 20s? If I knew more people with souleater I'd ask them to test but..."Help me Acrobats, you're my only hope." (bad Star Wars reference.)

[The_Phenx]

The slay living effect on regular Souleater is a fairly low save... I would be surprised if you saw it proc in the desert.

Try heading into lowbie land somwhere and see if you have more success there. Look for a level appropriate mob to kill.. say maybe Tear of Dhakaan?

The good news is that the Epic souleater is fantastic... but that being said I haven'y gotten to test it in new epic to see if it will still proc.

[XL_Jockey]

Now that my main is running Shrouds I'm starting to focus my attention back to my Horc Acrobat. It seems like she's hitting harder than before. I need to test her on harder content but it just feels like things are dying faster when I was expecting the opposite. I was running solo, so I didn't even get any sneak attacks in.

[The_Phenx]

Weil they did adjust a lot of mobs and how they work.. just not sure if they adjusted lower level content?

I know on stunned mobs I see significantly higher base damage with the +50%.

[Diyon]

I don't know if this was mentioned here yet, but I'll be using cleave/great cleave when I TR. I always wade into groups of monsters anyways and with the vampirism and body feeder on epic souleater that's going to be a nice increase in hp recovery as well as trash dps.

[The_Phenx]

I don't know if this was mentioned here yet, but I'll be using cleave/great cleave when I TR. I always wade into groups of monsters anyways and with the vampirism and body feeder on epic souleater that's going to be a nice increase in hp recovery as well as trash dps.

I had Cleave and Great Cleave originally but dropped them due to it slowing down my attacks, with the change it may be a whole lot different.

Once you take them at test it, please report back in so people considering taking them can see if its worthwhile now.

[Cardtrick]

I've been really enjoying the new Cleave. It's worth using every time it's off timer when facing at least two enemies, especially if more than one are eligible for sneak attacks. If I wasn't TRing soon, I would swap something out to get Great Cleave as well.

It's fun when mobbed by enemies, like in a Devil's Assault run -- one click, and you do 1000+ damage by hitting multiple enemies with your full bonuses and sneak attacks.

It doesn't have a delay to it like it used to, but I do think it resets the attack chain to the first animation. Which isn't a bad thing, as long as you're hitting on a 1, but is probably worth avoiding if you have trouble with your to-hit.

I've actually been using both Bluff and Cleave enough now that I've mapped them to easy to reach keys -- 1 is stunning blow, 2 is bluff, 3 is cleave.

[XL_Jockey]

I'm certainly seeing higher damage against helpless mobs, but even normal hits feel like they're a little higher. I didn't write down any numbers or crunch them, but it felt like my damage was higher than the last time I remembered.

As for Bluff, is that recommended over Diplo now? I might stick with Diplo since I already started and I don't know what a good cutoff would be, but if it's not too late to change I should do so now.

I need to figure out my feat order if Cleave is that good now.

[Valindria]

I'm certainly seeing higher damage against helpless mobs, but even normal hits feel like they're a little higher. I didn't write down any numbers or crunch them, but it felt like my damage was higher than the last time I remembered.

As for Bluff, is that recommended over Diplo now? I might stick with Diplo since I already started and I don't know what a good cutoff would be, but if it's not too late to change I should do so now.

I need to figure out my feat order if Cleave is that good now.

I talked about it on the previous page.
http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=3753272&postcount=1637

I kind of think bluff is going to be a better choice but it's hard to say 1 > 2 since they now both have advantages. If you are cleaving multiple targets Diplo seems like the better choice, if you are using high SA on one target then bluff seems like a better choice. If you can max both and use situationally, that seems ideal to me.

[Failedlegend]

I'm curious about whirldwind attack I dont see much discussion about it...did they fix it along with cleave/great cleave.

Oh and on the Rogue13/Monk6/Fighter1 build I don't see the advatage of the fighter level as opposed to Monk 7 or Ranger 1. Am i missing something in this feat list?

1 THF
2 ITHF
3 GTHF
4 IC: Bludgeon
5 Cleave
6 Great Cleave
7 Stunning Blow

M1 Toughness
M2 Dodge
M3 Power Attack
Path Dark


Fighter

1 whirlwind?

[voodoogroves]

I'm curious about whirldwind attack I dont see much discussion about it...did they fix it along with cleave/great cleave.

Oh and on the Rogue13/Monk6/Fighter1 build I don't see the advatage of the fighter level as opposed to Monk 7 or Ranger 1. Am i missing something in this feat list?

1 THF
2 ITHF
3 GTHF
4 IC: Bludgeon
5 Cleave
6 Great Cleave
7 Stunning Blow

M1 Toughness
M2 Dodge
M3 Power Attack
Path Dark


Fighter

1 whirlwind?

You'd need Combat Expertise and Spring Attack first ...

In my world, that feat is Quickdraw or Combat Expertise.

[Cardtrick]

Oh and on the Rogue13/Monk6/Fighter1 build I don't see the advantage of the fighter level as opposed to Monk 7 or Ranger 1. Am i missing something in this feat list?

All 3 are valid options:
* Ranger 1 for the +2 reflex and fort saves, the single (weak) favored enemy, situational use of bow strength, and sprint boost.
* Monk 7 for improved recovery II and Wholeness of Body, and maybe Void Strike II if you can afford it.
* Fighter 1 for the +2 fort save, +10 HP from Fighter Toughness 1, possibly +1 SB DC from Fighter Strategy: Stunning Blow, and the extra feat.

I still would lean toward fighter. I like having a workable stunning blow, and I like HPs, so it would almost be worth it to me just for those two enhancements. The extra feat pushes it over the top. Nothing is really missing from your feat list, but there are a couple of nice-to-haves. My vote would be for SF:UMD, to allow no-fail heal scrolls with minimal gear swapping, and to let you use fire shield, Teleport, and GH scrolls earlier. Quick Draw is another great option if you're focused more on DPS than utility -- the reduction in wasted time activating haste boots and swapping weapons is really handy, especially if you're going to be swapping to Stunning +10 weapons to use Stunning Blow very often.

[Diyon]

Figured here would be a better place to ask about this.

Just looking for some suggestions for the build I plan on TRing my current acrobat into. The skill stats are a little off in a few places where I didn't add all of the proper modifiers (like I didn't get the good luck +2 on all of them, or on the saves now that I think of it), but the rest should be okay.


Character Generated Using: DDO Character Generator (http://www.ddochargen.com)
Direct Link to Build: http://www.ddochargen.com/home.aspx?build=359

Rogue 13 / Fighter 6 / Monk 1
Female Half-Orc - Lawful Neutral
__________________________________________________ ______________

PAST LIVES SELECTED:
Rogue (1)
__________________________________________________ ______________

LEVEL 1
Race Selected: Female Half-Orc
Alignment Selected: Lawful Neutral
Class Selected: Rogue (Rogue 1)
Abilities Raised: STR: 20, DEX: 10, CON: 16, INT: 12
Skills Ranks Raised: Balance +4 (4), Diplomacy +4 (4),
Disable Device +4 (4), Jump +4 (4), Open Lock +4 (4),
Search +4 (4), Spot +4 (4), Tumble +4 (4), UMD +4 (4)
Feats Selected: Toughness
__________________________________________________ ______________

LEVEL 2:
Class Selected: Fighter (Fighter 1 / Rogue 1)
Skills Ranks Raised: Jump +1 (5), UMD +1 (5)
Feats Selected: Power Attack
__________________________________________________ ______________

LEVEL 3:
Class Selected: Fighter (Fighter 2 / Rogue 1)
Skills Ranks Raised: Jump +1 (6), UMD +1 (6)
Feats Selected: Cleave, Stunning Blow
Tomes Applied: STR: +1, DEX: +1, CON: +1, INT: +1,
WIS: +1, CHA: +1
__________________________________________________ ______________

LEVEL 4:
Class Selected: Rogue (Fighter 2 / Rogue 2)
Abilities Raised: STR: 22
Skills Ranks Raised: Disable Device +3 (7),
Search +3 (7), Tumble +2 (6), UMD +1 (7)
__________________________________________________ ______________

LEVEL 5:
Class Selected: Rogue (Rogue 3 / Fighter 2)
Skills Ranks Raised: Disable Device +1 (8),
Search +1 (8), Spot +4 (8), Tumble +2 (8), UMD +1 (8)
__________________________________________________ ______________

LEVEL 6:
Class Selected: Rogue (Rogue 4 / Fighter 2)
Skills Ranks Raised: Balance +4 (8), Disable Device +1 (9),
Search +1 (9), Spot +1 (9), Tumble +1 (9), UMD +1 (9)
Feats Selected: Great Cleave
__________________________________________________ ______________

LEVEL 7:
Class Selected: Fighter (Rogue 4 / Fighter 3)
Skills Ranks Raised: Jump +3 (9)
Tomes Applied: STR: +2, DEX: +2, CON: +2, INT: +2,
WIS: +2, CHA: +2
__________________________________________________ ______________

LEVEL 8:
Class Selected: Rogue (Rogue 5 / Fighter 3)
Abilities Raised: STR: 24
Skills Ranks Raised: Disable Device +2 (11),
Search +2 (11), Spot +2 (11), Tumble +2 (11), UMD +2 (11)
__________________________________________________ ______________

LEVEL 9:
Class Selected: Rogue (Rogue 6 / Fighter 3)
Skills Ranks Raised: Balance +4 (12), Disable Device +1 (12),
Open Lock +1 (5), Search +1 (12), Spot +1 (12), Tumble +1 (12),
UMD +1 (12)
Feats Selected: Weapon Focus (Bludgeoning)
__________________________________________________ ______________

LEVEL 10:
Class Selected: Fighter (Rogue 6 / Fighter 4)
Skills Ranks Raised: Jump +4 (13)
Feats Selected: Weapon Specialization (Bludgeoning)
__________________________________________________ ______________

LEVEL 11:
Class Selected: Fighter (Rogue 6 / Fighter 5)
Skills Ranks Raised: Jump +1 (14), UMD +1.5 (13.5)
Tomes Applied: STR: +3
__________________________________________________ ______________

LEVEL 12:
Class Selected: Fighter (Fighter 6 / Rogue 6)
Abilities Raised: STR: 26
Skills Ranks Raised: Open Lock +0.5 (5.5), UMD +1.5 (15)
Feats Selected: Toughness, Improved Critical (Bludgeoning)
__________________________________________________ ______________

LEVEL 13:
Class Selected: Rogue (Rogue 7 / Fighter 6)
Skills Ranks Raised: Disable Device +4 (16),
Search +4 (16), Spot +1 (13), UMD +1 (16)
__________________________________________________ ______________

LEVEL 14:
Class Selected: Rogue (Rogue 8 / Fighter 6)
Skills Ranks Raised: Disable Device +1 (17),
Search +1 (17), Spot +4 (17), Tumble +3 (15), UMD +1 (17)
__________________________________________________ ______________

LEVEL 15:
Class Selected: Rogue (Rogue 9 / Fighter 6)
Skills Ranks Raised: Balance +3 (15), Disable Device +1 (18),
Search +1 (18), Spot +1 (18), Tumble +3 (18), UMD +1 (18)
Feats Selected: Skill Focus (UMD)
Favor Bonus Granted: Coin Lord Finishing School (400 Coin Lord Favor)
Favor Bonus Granted: Draconic Vitality (15 Agents of Argonnessen Favor)
__________________________________________________ ______________

LEVEL 16:
Class Selected: Rogue (Rogue 10 / Fighter 6)
Abilities Raised: STR: 27
Skills Ranks Raised: Balance +4 (19), Disable Device +1 (19),
Open Lock +1 (6.5), Search +1 (19), Spot +1 (19), Tumble +1 (19),
UMD +1 (19)
__________________________________________________ ______________

LEVEL 17:
Class Selected: Rogue (Rogue 11 / Fighter 6)
Skills Ranks Raised: Balance +1 (20), Disable Device +1 (20),
Open Lock +4 (10.5), Search +1 (20), Spot +1 (20),
Tumble +1 (20), UMD +1 (20)
__________________________________________________ ______________

LEVEL 18:
Class Selected: Rogue (Rogue 12 / Fighter 6)
Skills Ranks Raised: Balance +1 (21), Diplomacy +4 (8),
Disable Device +1 (21), Search +1 (21), Spot +1 (21),
Tumble +1 (21), UMD +1 (21)
Feats Selected: Quick Draw
__________________________________________________ ______________

LEVEL 19:
Class Selected: Monk (Rogue 12 / Fighter 6 / Monk 1)
Skills Ranks Raised: Balance +1 (22), Diplomacy +2 (10),
Open Lock +0.5 (11), Spot +1 (22), Tumble +1 (22)
Feats Selected: Toughness
__________________________________________________ ______________

LEVEL 20:
Class Selected: Rogue (Rogue 13 / Fighter 6 / Monk 1)
Abilities Raised: STR: 28
Skills Ranks Raised: Balance +1 (23), Diplomacy +1 (11),
Disable Device +2 (23), Search +2 (23), Spot +1 (23),
Tumble +1 (23), UMD +2 (23)
Equipment Mods Changed To: Armor AC: 6, HP: 50,
STR: 12, DEX: 7, CON: 6, CHA: 6, FORT: 5, REFL: 5,
WILL: 5, Balance: 17, Bluff: 2, Concentration: 2, Diplomacy: 2,
Disable Device: 24, Open Lock: 24, Search: 20, Spot: 20,
Swim: 15, UMD: 8
Enhancements Selected: Fighter Toughness I,
Improved Balance I, Improved Tumble I, Orcish Fury I,
Orcish Melee Damage I, Orcish Strength I, Racial Toughness I,
Fighter Strength I, Improved Balance II, Improved Tumble II,
Orcish Power Attack I, Fighter Critical Accuracy I,
Fighter Critical Accuracy II, Fighter Attack Boost I,
Fighter Strength II, Fighter Attack Boost II, Orcish Strength II,
Orcish Melee Damage II, Fighter Kensei I, Kensei Specified Weapon Mastery I,
Rogue Haste Boost I, Rogue Haste Boost II, Rogue Faster Sneaking I,
Rogue Sneak Attack Training I, Rogue Dexterity I, Rogue Dexterity II,
Rogue Dexterity III, Rogue Thief-Acrobat I, Rogue Thief-Acrobat II,
Rogue Sneak Attack Training II, Rogue Sneak Attack Training III,
Orcish Power Attack II, Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) I,
Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) II, Orcish Power Attack III,
Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV, Racial Toughness II,
Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Stats at End of Level 20:
HP:462 SP:0 AC:22 FORT:23 REFL:23 WILL:13 BAB:+16/+16/+21/+26
STR:44(+17) DEX:22(+6) CON:24(+7) INT:14(+2) WIS:10(0) CHA:14(+2)
Balance:52, Bluff:5, Concentration:10, Diplomacy:18,
Disable Device:49, Haggle:2, Heal:0, Hide:6, Intimidate:5,
Jump:35, Listen:0, Move Silently:6, Open Lock:41, Perform: n/a,
Repair:2, Search:45, Spot:43, Swim:32, Tumble:35, UMD:36



Equipment of note (have this ready except for the toughness epic slot):
Epic Souleater
+5 True Chaos Quarterstaff of Stunning +10 with icy burst
Epic Brawling Gloves T3
Epic Bucaneer's Ring T3 heavy fort slotted
Epic Spyglass T3
Pirate hat with seeker +6 and +15 balance
DT vestments with +5 res, corrosive salt guard, freezing ice guard
GS earthgrab +45hp bracers
TOD ring with +1 and +2 exp STR
GS Rad II necklace (swaps with golden cartouche)
Madstone Boots/striders (for when I want to use that UMD)
Toughness to be slotted.

Fighting in Sun Stance for +2 Str and the stunning dc boost that that makes.
Basically how I play it now (not TR'd into H'orc with cleave) is front line melee'r, grabbing SA off of Stunning (will be DC 41 with just rage, 42/43 with madstone active, another +1 with guild buffs, without the stunner, standing at DC 31, 35 with the other buffs. Adding in Cleave and Great Cleave (I already jump into groups of monsters) will up the DPS for trash situations and also greatly boost HP recovery from the Epic Souleater's bodyfeeder and vampirism.

One of the changes to this I'm considering is dropping one of those toughness feats for Two-handed fighting and changing enhancements (no clue which) to include the Orcish Great Weapon Aptitude line. Not sure if that's worth it though.

Suggestions welcome.

[Cardtrick]

Don't bother with Great Weapon enhancement, except maybe the first tier. There are a couple of math breakdowns in the forum showing how virtually useless it is.

On the other hand, there's a *lot* of benefit from going for the full THF line on a build like this. With your gear, you can afford to be without SF:UMD. Also drop both Toughnesses. That will give you a very large DPS boost. On my (very similar) build, the 3x THF feats give me roughly 20 extra damage per swing, which seems well worth it.

Other than, it looks great!

[Diyon]

Don't bother with Great Weapon enhancement, except maybe the first tier. There are a couple of math breakdowns in the forum showing how virtually useless it is.

On the other hand, there's a *lot* of benefit from going for the full THF line on a build like this. With your gear, you can afford to be without SF:UMD. Also drop both Toughnesses. That will give you a very large DPS boost. On my (very similar) build, the 3x THF feats give me roughly 20 extra damage per swing, which seems well worth it.

Other than, it looks great!

Thanks for the input. I'm a little wary of dropping SF:UMD though, mainly because I use it now and will have my cha lower than before TR'ing. Before the fix for cleave/great cleave my plan was to drop one toughness and go the whole THF line (I have CE and Imp. Trip currently in place of the cleaves), but the fix threw that plan off as the cleaves looked like they'd be incredibly beneficial provided my play style with the character.

[Cardtrick]

Thanks for the input. I'm a little wary of dropping SF:UMD though, mainly because I use it now and will have my cha lower than before TR'ing. Before the fix for cleave/great cleave my plan was to drop one toughness and go the whole THF line (I have CE and Imp. Trip currently in place of the cleaves), but the fix threw that plan off as the cleaves looked like they'd be incredibly beneficial provided my play style with the character.

Consider keeping SF:UMD and dropping Great Cleave, then? Not sure if that's worth it, though. I want both cleaves, myself. I have just Cleave now, and I've really been loving it since the update. If I ever re-do this build, likely on a future life, and if nothing too major has changed by then, my plan is to drop SF:UMD to fit in Great Cleave.

However, I consider GTHF non-negotiable for this kind of build. Before this character, I had no appreciation for just how much damage a high-strength character adds on each hit from glancing blows. Even if you ignore the extra blows to surrounding enemies, the chain would be well worth it just for the extra single-target damage. My glancing blows are in the mid 30s, and I get them on 3/4 of my swings. It's a huge increase.

With the sort of gear you have, I think you should still be able to get a workable UMD. I never switch to my Cartouche, since it means losing 2 action boosts (which are nonrecoverable until rest), as my usual necklace is a Verrik's. I also don't have +3 exc cha skills, and I can still get no-fail heal scrolls. The Tier 3 epic Spyglass made gearing for high UMD much easier. If I ever come back to this build after my next few TRs, I'll definitely be dropping SF:UMD and using the Cartouche to make up the +3 skill.

[The_Phenx]

Exactly.

When you start to look at those last little tweaks to max out potential of your build you should be dropping Skill Focus UMD, if you are really worried about hitting certain #'rs then make a +6 cha skills item from the shroud, and spend your feats elsewhere.

My general rule of thumb.

Never spend a feat on what an item can accomplish.

Never slot anything other than damage on a weapon.

You can always hot swap in your UMD gear to hit a heal scroll in an emergency.

Obviously these things change depending on how much stuff you have around and what all you can make/farm. Thats why I try and list the builds and advice based on people who dont have absolutely everything, and try and leave the builds as survivable/soloable as possible with minimal gear.

[Diyon]

Never slot anything other than damage on a weapon.

But that excludes my lava paddle!!! (triple fire 45% fire absorbtion GS =P)

[Cardtrick]

But that excludes my lava paddle!!! (triple fire 45% fire absorbtion GS =P)

Yeah, I usually agree with everything The Phenx says, but not slotting anything but damage on a weapon just isn't a good rule of thumb. Fire/cold absorption weapons are very useful, and even on a mostly damage-oriented weapon, the elemental "blast" damage is not especially useful. Sometimes it's worth it, sometimes not. On my Triple-Pos staff (which destroys undead post-U9, by the way -- greater disruption is godly, now), putting damage on the 3rd tier would have been an average of less than 1 point of damage per strike. I slotted +30% healing amp there, instead, and am very happy with that decision. I'm a healing amp addict.

[The_Phenx]

LOL like I said there are exceptions to every rule.

When I said don't do it, I was thinking more across the board. Its more important on kopeshs scimmys, etc.

HOWEVER! on a 3x pos I would do holy good burst good blast, because as a umd build you can carry a stack of halt undead scrolls and get auto crits, really good for raiyum epic. and then it becomes 16.5 damage a swing.

Healing amp is certainly a good choice, and for non endgame players +4 insight ac is a reasonable choice too. I would avoid ever doing a stat for 3rd tier, TOD rings are too easy to acquire.

Maybe I should say. Unless its a purpose built item, dont slot anything on a weapon you can't do without? So when you change weapons your not hosed.

The other day I pulled a 20% electric absorption kama from mindsunder. :eek:

[Dirichlet]

I don't think anybody has mentioned it yet, but Hamstring now has a sexy new animation with a stick. My acrobat will have a free feat slot when she eventually gives up Least DM of Passage, and I told myself I'd go with whatever has the coolest animation. Hamstring is the clear winner.

[The_Phenx]

Good news to report!

I have been informed by Genasi that the fix is in for Epic Souleater, release date yet to be determined.

The plan, subject to change of course, is just to remove the save altogether for Epic Trap the Soul.

His feeling is that with the changes to epics and the fact that it has such a low proc rate on a weapon that is used by so few builds that it wouldn't become an issue with being overpowered.

[The_Phenx]

I don't think anybody has mentioned it yet, but Hamstring now has a sexy new animation with a stick. My acrobat will have a free feat slot when she eventually gives up Least DM of Passage, and I told myself I'd go with whatever has the coolest animation. Hamstring is the clear winner.

LOL nice... wanna post up a fraps of it?

[Cardtrick]

His feeling is that with the changes to epics and the fact that it has such a low proc rate on a weapon that is used by so few builds that it wouldn't become an issue with being overpowered.

I agree with that feeling, and I'm pleasantly surprised by this change. It seems staff builds are actually a "supported" niche build to some extent, which is nice -- especially since we have the coolest animations.

[The_Phenx]

Alawys has been my opinion.

We get a lot of named weapons, while we get no acrobat III they they did re-visit the pre for balance.

Now we need to work on showtime...

I don't think I could be happier with the change.

[Arlathen]

Ok, time to admit I want a Staff-Acrobat and join the club... (I did try one out but went with such a gimpy build I thought I'd ask for advice this time around)...

I'd like to make a fairly flavourful build to have fun with.

Was thinking along the lines of:

- 32pt Elf
- Rogue 13/Monk6/Fighter 1
- Thief-Acrobat 2 / Ninja Spy 1
- Insane Attack Speed - Thief Acrobat 2, Wind Stance 2*, Haste Boost 4
- Karmic Strike Criticals
- Balanced Str/Dex Approach
- Displacement Dragonmarks & Shadow Fade
- Obscene AC (80+ self boosted?)
- Loads of skills ... Trapsmithing, Bluff, UMD, Jump...

*I know it doesn't stack with Haste spell, but means I don't have to rely on Haste or Haste pots :) (And 5% Double Strike is nice).

Possible stats (Starting/Ending with Tomes & Gear)
Str: 15/36
Dex: 16/36
Con: 12/22
Int: 14/24
Wis: 14/26
Cha: 8/18

Feats:
THF/ITHF/GTHF
PA
IC: Bludgeon
Toughness
Least & Lesser DM of Shadow
Dodge
Cleave & Great Cleave

AC Base: 63
AC Stance: 68
AC Stance & Self buffs: 73
AC Stance & Boosted: 80
Incorporeal: 25%
Displacement: 50% Miss
Approx. HP: 443
Saves: 27/36/28 with Greater Heroism

Skills:
(Note: I took great care in working out an appropiate level split and skills per level to get these values)
Bluff: 23
Sp: 23
Sr: 23
DD: 23
OL: 23
UMD: 23
MS: 23
Hide: 23
Jump: 15
Conc: 10

.... anything I'm missing ?

Gear wise, I have the needed +2 Int tome to get those skills to where they are and also a nice little Dreamspitter for the Karmic strikes and 'end-game' non epic content (Vale/IQ/Amrath).

[Dirichlet]

Sunder has the same animation as Hamstring if you wanted to see it.

I've been trying out Improved Feint. I've got to say it's very powerful, although the animation is a bit clunky. It just does your first stage attack no matter where you were in the chain. It leaves a short gap before you can attack again, and resets the chain, so you effectively do two of the first attack animations in a row with a clumsy break in between. The discription is misleading also, because it's not an "attack", i.e. it doesn't do any damage itself. I don't know if Quickdraw speeds up the downtime, as I've had to drop that until a later level.

I'm not sure of how much has changed as I didn't use IF or Bluff before U9. Bluff is actually a bit easier to use of the two. Because of it's range, you can fire it off while running towards a mob and skip out the downtime. So even with IF I'm glad whenever Bluff comes off cooldown. IF has an AoE effect though (which makes it very good with Cleave if you can fit that in), and the cooldown is significantly shorter (seperate cooldowns of course). Once bluffed, the mobs turn around on the spot as if you've just shouted "Holy ****! *** is that behind you?!?", and it seems like (though I'm not certain) this causes them to lose some attack time.

Overall I'm happy with it, and I'll be keeping it for sure. Right now I have a dillema with my heart wanting Hamstring and my head wanting Cleave, with the possibility to drop Ranger for Fighter and take both, or maybe Fighter + Cleave + Great Cleave...

[Diyon]

Good news to report!

I have been informed by Genasi that the fix is in for Epic Souleater, release date yet to be determined.

The plan, subject to change of course, is just to remove the save altogether for Epic Trap the Soul.

His feeling is that with the changes to epics and the fact that it has such a low proc rate on a weapon that is used by so few builds that it wouldn't become an issue with being overpowered.

This is good to hear, especially since epic monsters' saves just jumped up in U9. Plus it will give more justification for using souleater in epics over other options dps-wise.

[The_Phenx]

Ok, time to admit I want a Staff-Acrobat and join the club... (I did try one out but went with such a gimpy build I thought I'd ask for advice this time around)...


Honestly I don't see anything glaringly off.

I wouldn't do the dragonmark feats, but thematically they are fun.

Like displacement is a 2nd tier shroud clicky, and its fairly easy to make.

I would prolly take great cleave and maybe improved trip instead?

But thats just my opinion :).

[The_Phenx]

Has anyone with monk splash levels noticed anything drastically different with the U9 Changes?

[Arlathen]

Has anyone with monk splash levels noticed anything drastically different with the U9 Changes?

Monk Healing Ki finisher is nerfed to reflect Monk-only levels instead of Character levels. Not a real biggie, Fists of Light is still awesome for those that want to go the Light Path.

As you already know, Karmic strike now costs 20HP instead of auto-critted.

Hmm, can anyone confirm changes to Level-Drain on Dreamspitter and Staff of Shadow so its now always on Crit effect?

[Arlathen]

Honestly I don't see anything glaringly off.

I wouldn't do the dragonmark feats, but thematically they are fun.

Like displacement is a 2nd tier shroud clicky, and its fairly easy to make.

I would prolly take great cleave and maybe improved trip instead?

But thats just my opinion :).

Cool, yeah the DMs are for flavour and fun, costly feat wise and could be replaced with Shroud clickies, but still...

Staying away from tactics on purpose, unless you go WF/Half-Orc with deeper investment in Fighter levels for further tactics bonuses I don't really see the point. Maybe with a few Fighter Past Lives, a Half-Elf race and Fighter Dill, it could be workable...

.. but then goes my Pole Dancing Elf Maiden flavour build :D

[The_Phenx]

Monk Healing Ki finisher is nerfed to reflect Monk-only levels instead of Character levels. Not a real biggie, Fists of Light is still awesome for those that want to go the Light Path.

As you already know, Karmic strike now costs 20HP instead of auto-critted.

Hmm, can anyone confirm changes to Level-Drain on Dreamspitter and Staff of Shadow so its now always on Crit effect?


Excellent then I will leave the build as it stands... just didnt want to steer anyone wrong.

Ill test out dreamspitter and shadow staff tonight.

[The_Phenx]

.. but then goes my Pole Dancing Elf Maiden flavour build :D

ROFL its a game... pretty sure having fun is allowed

[Arlathen]

Excellent then I will leave the build as it stands... just didnt want to steer anyone wrong.


No worries - I've thought of one other item which while it isnt a direct change to Monks, it does impact them somewhat.

With the change to 'no auto-crits' on Mobs that are helpless, Monks in Fire Stance do no get bonus Ki for landing hits on Mobs that are helpless, and instead get the regular +1 to Ki in Fire Stance unless they land a regularly critical hit.

The Monks were all raving about this 'nerf' on the forums and it was pretty hard to miss - for me it was a case of 'meh, carry on...'

[Cardtrick]

Hmm, can anyone confirm changes to Level-Drain on Dreamspitter and Staff of Shadow so its now always on Crit effect?

Yes, at least for the Dreamspitter. I was dreading the change, but it's actually been a big benefit for me in Amrath quests, which I've been running a lot (looking for Scales). The unsuppressed Dreamspitter (+5 Holy of GEOB) with the level drain on all crits is a godly weapon in Amrath.

Of course, I still miss it very much in epics.

[drac317]

Ill test out dreamspitter and shadow staff tonight.
yes virgina there is festival jester!

back to drain on all crits:D

[fedechicco]

Hello folks!

I'm TRing again, and this time i absolutely want a fast hitting acrobat half orc DPS.
Since i wanted a good stunning too, the OP build seemed nice to me.

I have a few questions:
why did you put low spot hide and move silently?


Hide 5
Jump 37
Move Silently 5
Open Lock 11
Spot 3
UMD 22

I never played rogue, I'd like to drop hide and move silently and put the extra skill points in spot, so i can actually know when i'm stomping on something.
Any draw back about that?

And again: i'll be in a static group with a high-UMD CC & healing spell-singer. Do you suggest to drop UMD to get a higher Open Lock?
Will UMD be useful for self buff and healings only? the bard can take care of it.
Will UMD be necessary for using some special gear? in that case how much UMD is necessary?

I'll be doing this on a 36 build with Ranger and Fighter past lifes, any suggestion about how to use them? Barkskin doesn't seem useful to me on this build, maybe the fighter PL feat is better?

[Cardtrick]

why did you put low spot hide and move silently?

I never played rogue, I'd like to drop hide and move silently and put the extra skill points in spot, so i can actually know when i'm stomping on something.
Any draw back about that?

The obvious draw back to dropping hide and move silently is that you effectively lose your ability to sneak. There's no real hidden benefit to these skills, so it's your decision -- if you're planning to sneak through quests at all, you want some investment in them, but otherwise it's safe to drop them. Personally, I couldn't fit them in my version of the build, and dropped them after the initial 4 points each.

Just be aware that there are certain "rogue-y" quests -- epic Claw of Vulkoor spring to mind -- that you'll effectively be giving up on.


As for spot, you'll often see builds posted in the forums dropping it, since some vets simply know where the traps are and are fine with search and disable. Personally, I feel that spot would be worthwhile even if all it did was let you see hidden enemies -- the fact that it helps find traps before they go off makes it indispensable for me.


And again: i'll be in a static group with a high-UMD CC & healing spell-singer. Do you suggest to drop UMD to get a higher Open Lock?
Will UMD be useful for self buff and healings only? the bard can take care of it.
Will UMD be necessary for using some special gear? in that case how much UMD is necessary?

Absolutely not. UMD is invaluable. It lets you self-buff with things the bard can't handle -- fire shield (from scrolls) and shield (from Shield 10 wands). These 2 spells cut down on a tremendous amount of incoming damage -- fire shield cut incoming fire or cold damage by 50%, while shield makes you immune to missile spells, which are a huge portion of the incoming damage in some caster-heavy quests.

It also means that you can be lawful neutral, avoiding the penalties of damage that affects good characters (from Lailat, for example, or any enemy with an Unholy weapon) -- while still being able to use "Pure Good" weapons. You'll also be able to wear any racially-restricted equipment, allowing you to use them 2 levels earlier than otherwise.

Eventually, with gear, you'll get it high enough to reliably scroll-cast Raise Dead and Heal -- having a tough character with improved evasion who can scroll-raise and scroll-heal the healer has saved my groups more than once.

All that aside, Open Lock simply doesn't need to be very high. It has very low difficulty checks compared to Search, Spot, and Disable. Simply wearing a dex item and an Escape item, along with the starting 4 points, is enough for the vast majority of locks in the game. Especially when you have a bard to cast GH and then Inspire Competence for you.

If you were going to add a skill, it should be Bluff. Bluff is now a wonderful skill for a rogue, since Update 9. The threat reduction works great -- I've been able to drop tiers 2 and 3 of subtle backstabbing, and actually do a better job than before of avoiding boss aggro, just by spamming bluff. Arguably more importantly, with a high skill it's 6 seconds of full sneak attacks every 15 seconds, even when you have aggro. That's a huge DPS boost. In fact, I'm not sure which of the builds in the first post you were planning to go with, but I would urge you to drop Balance (if your build has it) in exchange for Bluff\. You'll have knockdown immunity anyway, and Bluff is more consistently useful.


I'll be doing this on a 36 build with Ranger and Fighter past lifes, any suggestion about how to use them? Barkskin doesn't seem useful to me on this build, maybe the fighter PL feat is better?

The passive past life feats are useful -- especially the fighter one, for the bonus to Stunning DCs. But I wouldn't take either of the active feats -- they just don't bring much to the build. If you're looking for extra feats to add in their place, consider cleave/great cleave. They're really useful post-U9 with a staff.

[fedechicco]

The obvious draw back to dropping hide and move silently is that you effectively lose your ability to sneak. There's no real hidden benefit to these skills, so it's your decision -- if you're planning to sneak through quests at all, you want some investment in them, but otherwise it's safe to drop them. Personally, I couldn't fit them in my version of the build, and dropped them after the initial 4 points each.

Just be aware that there are certain "rogue-y" quests -- epic Claw of Vulkoor spring to mind -- that you'll effectively be giving up on.


But i mean, with 5 hide and 5 move silently can you effectivly sneak without being seen or heard in epic quests?

I have another question about the build, which is the one linked here: http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=3597360&postcount=1546

Why do you take so much Concentration? Is it for casting UMD while in melee? Cause i tried it at lvl4 and i had the full bar of ki even if i was constantly using the 4 base ki moves.
I understand now why UMD is uber in any case, for buff scrolls and wands, but I won't be self healing. Should I drop a little concentration?

You are talking about Cleave and Great Cleave, should I drop one or 2 toughnesses out of 3 for those? 2 toughnesses are 40 HP anyway, i'll still have 480 HP, not uber but not squishy either.

How good are them now? I don't really know what they changed with u9 about those.

[Failedlegend]

ROFL its a game... pretty sure having fun is allowed

Heh you wouldn't think so with what a large majority of players/forum goers are like.

[The_Phenx]

But i mean, with 5 hide and 5 move silently can you effectivly sneak without being seen or heard in epic quests?

I have another question about the build, which is the one linked here: http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=3597360&postcount=1546

Why do you take so much Concentration? Is it for casting UMD while in melee? Cause i tried it at lvl4 and i had the full bar of ki even if i was constantly using the 4 base ki moves.
I understand now why UMD is uber in any case, for buff scrolls and wands, but I won't be self healing. Should I drop a little concentration?

You are talking about Cleave and Great Cleave, should I drop one or 2 toughnesses out of 3 for those? 2 toughnesses are 40 HP anyway, i'll still have 480 HP, not uber but not squishy either.

How good are them now? I don't really know what they changed with u9 about those.

His build is pretty solid.

Cleave + Great cleave were always fun, and now that they dont slow things down they are much more of a boon than they used to be, prolly could go either way.

I have Preying's hide + MS at over 80 each boosted and I can solo claw without too much effort. A 5 isn't going to do you anything really.

Just determine how you wanna play and what you want to do.

If you dont care about monk strikes ignore concentration, if you wanna sneak boost hide/ms, if you havent memorized every trap location in the game take spot :).

But every build in my opinion should max out UMD regardless.

Because when that bard gets squarshed and you can't self heal and res him it'll suck :).

[The_Phenx]

Heh you wouldn't think so with what a large majority of players/forum goers are like.

The funny thing is... I often have my best times in this game when things go all belly up, and your running around like an idiot.

[Cardtrick]

But i mean, with 5 hide and 5 move silently can you effectivly sneak without being seen or heard in epic quests?

I have another question about the build, which is the one linked here: http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=3597360&postcount=1546

Why do you take so much Concentration? Is it for casting UMD while in melee? Cause i tried it at lvl4 and i had the full bar of ki even if i was constantly using the 4 base ki moves.
I understand now why UMD is uber in any case, for buff scrolls and wands, but I won't be self healing. Should I drop a little concentration?

Ah, yeah, I didn't know which build you were talking about. I assumed it was one of the 6+ monk ones -- 13/7 or 13/6/1.

For that build, I agree -- dropping concentration makes sense. You'd only want it for heal scrolls, and even then I'd say it's probably not worth it -- it's usually easy enough to back away and jump to cast heal without a Concentration check. With only one monk level, you won't be using finishers, so no need for lots of ki.

As for the 5 points in hide and move silently . . . the first level is rogue, so there are tons of skill points to play around with there. Putting a few points in may be useful, combined with +15 skill items, in a few quests. But it won't get high enough for most real "stealth" applications.


You are talking about Cleave and Great Cleave, should I drop one or 2 toughnesses out of 3 for those? 2 toughnesses are 40 HP anyway, i'll still have 480 HP, not uber but not squishy either.

How good are them now? I don't really know what they changed with u9 about those.

I absolutely would. For an idea of what that looks like, check the build in my signature -- it's very similar to the one you're looking at. I made that post pre-U9, though -- now I would drop SF:UMD in exchange for Great Cleave, although admittedly that's as much due to the fact that I finally have +6 Cha Skills from green steel as anything.

The two big changes U9 made to acrobat rogues are:

1) Cleave and Great Cleave do not break the attack chain, making them a significant DPS boost when facing multiple enemies, rather than a rarely-useful situational flavor thing that I took only because I hate bats.

2) Bluff is godly now. 6 seconds of full sneak attack every 15 seconds is great all on its own, but the reduction in melee threat is the real treat. By spamming bluff, I've been able to mostly drop Subtle Backstabbing (still have tier 1) and still avoid aggro when I want to.

[Failedlegend]

The funny thing is... I often have my best times in this game when things go all belly up, and your running around like an idiot.

Yeah when I just barely scrape through a situation by the skin of my teeth I enjoy it much more. Its why I tend to do quest a lvl or two above to add a bit of challenge in without making it suicide....well with my static groups at least most players nowadays wont even touch at-level quests let alone above level ones....and the rest spend their off-time calculating the most effective/expedient way to lvl 20....so much for "It's not the destination, it's the journey."

[The_Phenx]

[QUOTE]Ah, yeah, I didn't know which build you were talking about. I assumed it was one of the 6+ monk ones -- 13/7 or 13/6/1.

Ya it took me am inute to figure it out.




I absolutely would. For an idea of what that looks like, check the build in my signature

Tossed a link to you in the builds section. I gotta find a 13/6/1 thats 6 monk to put up there too sometime.

[Diyon]

The funny thing is... I often have my best times in this game when things go all belly up, and your running around like an idiot.

This here. My funnest times in game are most often when things have gone pear shaped on the group. This may also be why I join PUGs a lot.

[Multivitamin]

The f'n stick build was the very first build i ever did on any world and i love it every minute she is an awsome build i have got her to level 19 and i still love playing it...
I have also started to play the ugly stick build and love that one just as much and have her up to level 9.
you must have worked really hard on these builds and thankyou so much for sharing them

[The_Phenx]

The f'n stick build was the very first build i ever did on any world and i love it every minute she is an awsome build i have got her to level 19 and i still love playing it...
I have also started to play the ugly stick build and love that one just as much and have her up to level 9.
you must have worked really hard on these builds and thankyou so much for sharing them

Your very welcome.

They started out life as a conversation between me and Blazer (on the forums) and HasteClicky (forums) and a big scratch pad, and trying to figure out a way to make quarterstaves kick a**.

And it getting posted up here was more of a lets see how many people will rip on it, but oddly no one really ever did.

[voodoogroves]

Your very welcome.

They started out life as a conversation between me and Blazer (on the forums) and HasteClicky (forums) and a big scratch pad, and trying to figure out a way to make quarterstaves kick a**.

And it getting posted up here was more of a lets see how many people will rip on it, but oddly no one really ever did.

Well, it's targeted optimization. Yeah, we know it's not an SOS, but if you're going to hit things as hard and fast as you can with a stick ... well this is the place.

[skunk]

I love this thread. I GRd my original halfling rogue into the Bigger F'n Stick. Rolled another rogue based off the thread (didn't have monk then).

(got monk now and just for fun, i decided to do a dead stick build). not sure how it will work, but who knows till you try.









Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.0
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 Lawful Good Dwarf Male
(1 Monk \ 7 Rogue \ 12 Wizard)
Hit Points: 220
Spell Points: 755
BAB: 11\11\16\21
Fortitude: 12
Reflex: 10
Will: 11

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Strength 16 23 23
Dexterity 8 8 8
Constitution 16 18 18
Intelligence 18 20 20
Wisdom 8 8 8
Charisma 6 6 6

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Balance 3 12 16
Bluff 2 2 2
Concentration 5 27 27
Diplomacy -2 -2 -2
Disable Device 8 28 28
Haggle -2 -2 -2
Heal -1 -1 -1
Hide 3 3 3
Intimidate -2 -2 -2
Jump 7 10 10
Listen -1 -1 -1
Move Silently 3 3 3
Open Lock 3 22 22
Perform n/a n/a n/a
Repair 4 5 5
Search 8 28 30
Spot 3 22 22
Swim 3 6 6
Tumble 0 1 1
Use Magic Device 2 21 21

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Bluff (+4)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Hide (+4)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Move Silently (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting


Level 2 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Maximize Spell
Spell (1): Acid Spray
Spell (1): Burning Hands
Spell (1): Charm Person
Spell (1): Jump
Spell (1): Magic Missle
Spell (1): Nightshield
Spell (1): Summon Monster I


Level 3 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Necromancy
Spell (1): Expeditious Retreat
Spell (1): Chill Touch


Level 4 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Spell (2): Blur
Spell (2): Melf's Acid Arrow


Level 5 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Spell (2): Knock
Spell (2): Web


Level 6 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Quicken Spell
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Bludgeoning Weapons
Spell (3): Acid Blast
Spell (3): Haste


Level 7 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Spell (3): Displacement
Spell (3): Rage


Level 8 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Spell (4): Death Aura
Spell (4): Negative Energy Burst


Level 9 (Monk)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness


Level 10 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+7)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)


Level 11 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+6)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+3)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 12 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 13 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+3)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Spell (5): Cone of Cold
Spell (5): Cloudkill


Level 14 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy
Spell (5): Ball Lightning
Spell (5): Protection From Elements


Level 15 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting
Spell (6): Acid Fog
Spell (6): Greater Heroism


Level 16 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (6): Tenser's Transformation
Spell (6): Necrotic Ray


Level 17 (Rogue)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+6)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)


Level 18 (Rogue)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+7)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Heighten Spell


Level 19 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+3)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 20 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+6)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

[The_Phenx]

(got monk now and just for fun, i decided to do a dead stick build). not sure how it will work, but who knows till you try.



LOL... Nice... must keep us updated.

[skunk]

LOL... Nice... must keep us updated.

Thanks, i will do, i think i messed up with the starting int so high, but i felt it helped the casting, and that i needed to play catch up on alot of skills. I really debated going 2 monk, but i think 1 is better for this build. Self healing, lots of con (hence dwarf).

I think the thing i am going to miss is greater two weapon fighting. I couldn't get a high enough bab till 20. I also will miss power attack, i am going to be lower damage, and more reliant on sneak attack damage.


Mental toughness is a feat i could drop i think. I just like it for leveling, where i have to rely a little more on casting.

[The_Phenx]

Thanks, i will do, i think i messed up with the starting int so high, but i felt it helped the casting, and that i needed to play catch up on alot of skills. I really debated going 2 monk, but i think 1 is better for this build. Self healing, lots of con (hence dwarf).

I think the thing i am going to miss is greater two weapon fighting. I couldn't get a high enough bab till 20. I also will miss power attack, i am going to be lower damage, and more reliant on sneak attack damage.


Mental toughness is a feat i could drop i think. I just like it for leveling, where i have to rely a little more on casting.

Ya int is unnecessary on these kinds of builds, your DC's are going to be fairly low so you have to rely on direct damage type stuff and hope for the best.

Same thing with mental toughness, its just a few spell points... maybe drop that at higher levels, take greater thf or power attack...remember you can always re-spec into a feat and qualify for it. If I remember right.

[Dirichlet]

Lol, love the name Dead Stick. I was thinking of doing an Acro II / Warchanter I build with the pretext of calling it a Drum Stick. Then I played with it a bit more and thought Thief Acrobat plus Bard just has to be called a Tard.

Incidentally, a Half-Orc Acrobat dumping Int should be called a Dumb Stick.

GTHF doesn't seem to be possible given 12 Wizard, without going Kensei I instead of Acrobat I, say, which is an abomination. I remember someone saying in this same thread actually how the THF feats were sort of all or nothing. GTHF adds both to the percentage chance of a glancing blow and to which blows they occur, so while THF and ITHF add little, GTHF is what makes the three feats worth it. With that in mind, I wonder if PA might turn out to be better than ITHF (i.e. THF + PA > THF + ITHF). The -hit will hurt with your BaB though, so it's gear dependent.

Still, it sounds fun, which is what it's all about.

[skunk]

ok, i think i am stopping at 7 wiz. I don't like the other 2 forms, so here is the breakdown.

7 wiz zombie. 12 rogue acro, 1 monk.

need 4th level spells. for healing

starting stats
18 str
10 dex
18 con
12 in
8 wis
6 chr.

In zombie form you get +2 str, +2 con. -speed. - Int - Chr.

7 levels of rogue gives you haste boost 4, with monk you can get wind stance, or you can cast haste as wiz. to make up for the speed loss. I noticed i have to get out of zombie to do some traps.

i am level 7 so far, and i am really enjoying this. I haven't used anything i haven't found in adventures or in the AH for what i have on my guy. So far its working ok. It would be much better with gear. (doing this to see viable for not rich players). This seems to be a very gear dependent toon.

(might just try this as a different build. ) Peace

love the drum stick :)

[Failedlegend]

ok, i think i am stopping at 7 wiz. I don't like the other 2 forms, so here is the breakdown.

7 wiz zombie. 12 rogue acro, 1 monk.

need 4th level spells. for healing

starting stats
18 str
10 dex
18 con
12 in
8 wis
6 chr.

In zombie form you get +2 str, +2 con. -speed. - Int - Chr.

7 levels of rogue gives you haste boost 4, with monk you can get wind stance, or you can cast haste as wiz. to make up for the speed loss. I noticed i have to get out of zombie to do some traps.

i am level 7 so far, and i am really enjoying this. I haven't used anything i haven't found in adventures or in the AH for what i have on my guy. So far its working ok. It would be much better with gear. (doing this to see viable for not rich players). This seems to be a very gear dependent toon.

(might just try this as a different build. ) Peace

love the drum stick :)

Bit of a sidebar here but heres an alternative BattleWiz Zombie build

The plan is to use windstance until haste (spell) is obtained than switch to fire until 3rd tier stance are available at which point I will be in Earth Stance most of the time for the increased crit multiplier and the boosted damage dice from the Jidz Bracers than popping on as many guards as possible...fire stance still readied if ki gets low though.

He combines the toughness/regeneration of the undead, with the buffs of a wizard and the speed and strength of a Dark Monk.

At 20 this build has the same damage dice as a Pure Monk due to Zombie form and the speed penalty is offset by Haste (Spell) and Haste (Action Boost)

I have it set up so this guy can freely swap between hand wraps (Primary, Bludgeoning) and dual shortsword/kamas (Secondary Piercing/Slashing respectively) depending on the situations (DR, available named items, etc.) also note that due to his Monk levels he has a 17 BAB (at 20) for the purposes of any Ki weapons (handwraps,etc.)

The main issues I'm having is deciding what level order I want...Monk at lvl 1 is obvious due to skill points/remove drunken punch syndrome (aka Elaineism (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DY_DF2Af3LM)) but after that do I go for wiz 7 first or monk 6 than 7 wiz than the rest monk.





Lawful Neutral Dwarf Monk12/Wizard7/Fighter1 "Zombie/Ninja Spy"

Stats

Str 16 (Lvl ups here)
Dex 15
Con 14
Int 12
Wis 14
Cha 8

Level Order

Monk 1,2
Wizard 3-9
Monk 10-18
Fighter 19
Monk 20

Feats (In Order)


Regular

1 Power Attack
3 SF: Concentration
6 SF: UMD
9 Stunning Blow
12 ITWF
15 IC: Bludgeon
18 Mental Toughness


Wiz

3 Extend
7 SF:Necro


Monk

1 Toughness
2 TWF
13 Dodge

Fighter

19 GTWF

Skills

All Levels: Concentration, UMD
Monk Levels: Add Balance
Any Leftover points in Spot than Jump




Spells

1 Jump, Night Shield, Exp Retreat, Feather Fall, Detect Doors
2 Lesser Death Aura, False Life, Resist Energy, Blur
3 Haste, Displacement, Rage
4 Death Aura, Stone Skin

[The_Phenx]

1st I think you will HATE Zombie form, I cant stand it... the animations are VERY clunky and the attack speed sucks, BUT its good for self healing.

I am currently leveling a 12/6/2 pale master monk fighter but human so I can use the fighter and human str to bump it up another notch.

Took Wiz to 7th for the self healing

TOok 2 monk for evasion + a couple combat feats

Took Wis to 14th level to finish off PM II

Taking fighter @ 15th

Monk 16-19

FIghter @ 20th


I suppose you could use something like this idea and do

12 Wis PM 2
7 Rogue Acro I
1 Monk

Use Staffs... would be kinda weird but who knows... :)

[starflight]

I have read several posts from the original to now. I do appreciate all the effort that has been put into this. I have learned a lot. It seemed the preferred build went from 17/3 (rogue/monk) to pure and now a lot of talk about 13/6/1. rogue/monk/fighter or rogue/fighter/monk.
I haven't build a rogue before and do not have the high end equipment you mentioned. Hopefully I will get some eventually. Any recommendations on which build to follow?

[The_Phenx]

Honestly its all up to how you want to play.

If I go by what people I know are saying right now it's a single TR'd (past life rogue) 20 Rogue Half Orc (but I still prefer halflings lol)

Pound for pound they do the most dps, and since my guild is usually stuck in high end and epic stuff that makes the most sense.

The 13/6/1 builds are a lil more varied and can be customized to do a lot of different things, tactics, monk stuff, etc.

Apparently the 17/3's are still pretty cool and useful tho, but yeah they seem to have fallen by the wayside a bit, as they dont offer the versatility of the 13/6/1 builds.

[Cardtrick]

I have read several posts from the original to now. I do appreciate all the effort that has been put into this. I have learned a lot. It seemed the preferred build went from 17/3 (rogue/monk) to pure and now a lot of talk about 13/6/1. rogue/monk/fighter or rogue/fighter/monk.
I haven't build a rogue before and do not have the high end equipment you mentioned. Hopefully I will get some eventually. Any recommendations on which build to follow?

As Phenx said, it really depends on how you like to play.

I solo a lot of the time, and so I prefer having a good chunk of my DPS available even when I have aggro -- so I like the 13/6/1 acro/kensai/monk builds. It's also nice having that rogue icon but being quite survivable -- 500+ HP when madstoned, knockdown immunity, decent reflex and fort saves, and improved evasion, with solid self-healing/buffing from UMD. I like that when I'm in Shroud runs with another rogue, my health barely ticks down while theirs often drops to dangerous levels before they get healed. I also like that I can quite easily solo Amrath quests on Normal (not Elite, though . . . I'm not a good enough player to do that except on a caster). And on a half-orc or warforged (high strength or tactics bonuses), it's very doable to get high stunning blow/trip DCs for some crowd control ability.

If you want to go even further in the direction of self-sufficiency, a 13/7 or 13/6/1 build with monk as the focus is another great option. I haven't played this yet myself, but it has a lot going for it.

On the other hand, if you run with a static group or a close-knit guild that you can count on, a pure 20 rogue will undeniably have better DPS than the multiclass options while sneak attacking -- it will just lose much more when it gets aggro.

I have a couple of friends I run with occasionally who have 17/3 builds, and I do think they perform noticeably worse than either the pure rogue or the 13/6/1 builds -- they're not gimped, but they're not ideal anymore (if they ever were).

[starflight]

Thanks for the input. It helps take some of the guess work out of making a build choice.

[voodoogroves]

Couple things

(1) On the named staff list, let's point out that Rahl's Might is x3 crit. That's nifty - may even open up some Monk12 Earth Stance stick users.

(2) I've not made a Green Steel utility staff for an acrobat yet (been using a Petrifying Shadow Staff); wondering what the current thoughts on Earthgrab vs. Radiance for non-boss use ... Earthgrab is, of course, less difficult to craft. With the low crit profile, Radiance is definitely less useful than it is on something w/ a native 18-20.

[Diyon]

Couple things

(1) On the named staff list, let's point out that Rahl's Might is x3 crit. That's nifty - may even open up some Monk12 Earth Stance stick users.

(2) I've not made a Green Steel utility staff for an acrobat yet (been using a Petrifying Shadow Staff); wondering what the current thoughts on Earthgrab vs. Radiance for non-boss use ... Earthgrab is, of course, less difficult to craft. With the low crit profile, Radiance is definitely less useful than it is on something w/ a native 18-20.

1. that indeed would be nifty.

2. Screw Rad staffs, I just made a Radiance guard GS item, and it works wonderfully. Of course this is only true because I have a tendency to wade into monsters like a crazed barbarian. In anycase I think earthgrab would probably be nice for lvls 11-17, after that you have Rahl's, Epic Souleater (personal favorite), and Epic Natt Gan's.

[voodoogroves]

1. that indeed would be nifty.

I'm thinking Half Orc Monk 12 / Fighter 8 as a basis. No acrobat, but a big stick.

[The_Phenx]

[QUOTE](1) On the named staff list, let's point out that Rahl's Might is x3 crit.

Done


(2) I've not made a Green Steel utility staff for an acrobat yet (been using a Petrifying Shadow Staff); wondering what the current thoughts on Earthgrab vs. Radiance for non-boss use ... Earthgrab is, of course, less difficult to craft. With the low crit profile, Radiance is definitely less useful than it is on something w/ a native 18-20.

Earthgrab is still good even in epic.. just not AS good as it used to be..and even tho it gives a helpless state it doesnt do a whole lot of damage to most of end game stuff like orthons and devils due to acid resist.

Radiance is fantastic vs held epic skeles in wiz king, and is good vs anything else if your not getting sneaks. But I pretty much always use a lightning strike, rahls might, or epic souleater now.

And a 3x good staff has come up in the world as pretty much the best undead beater an acro can get.

And epic souleater will be getting a nice bump in the future.

[Diyon]

And a 3x good staff has come up in the world as pretty much the best undead beater an acro can get.

3x? Meaning triple positive maybe?

[The_Phenx]

yes... lol

Holy good burst good blast with 6d6 bane damage a swing `2% chance to auto kill

[Diyon]

yes... lol

Holy good burst good blast with 6d6 bane damage a swing `2% chance to auto kill

5% chance now. As long as they have less than 1000 hp.

[strldr3]

First of all congrats to original poster for a great thread and buids!
I would like to contribute providing a link to my 13 rogue/ 6barbarian/ 1ftr - Acrobat/Berserker:
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=317844
Check the Vicious Acrobat section, as the main build goes generic rogue for extra skills + versatility, while the Acrobat variation focuses more on DPS. Any suggestions/critique greatly appreciated! Enjoy!

[Cardtrick]

5% chance now. As long as they have less than 1000 hp.

And even when they don't, it's an extra +100. I absolutely tear through undead with my triple-pos staff now. Pre-U9, I was using a flaming burst, icy burst of greater undead bane, and I thought that was good undead DPS, but it's nothing compared to the new triple-pos green steel.

It's funny, undead are supposed to be a rogue's worst enemy; but an acrobat with a triple-pos staff can out-DPS most other melees against non-zombie undead any day. I actually wish there were more of them in epic and end-game content.

[The_Phenx]

Didn't know it went to 5% thats even sweeter. Guess I gotta get up off the couch and get into my chair and make one :).

[The_Phenx]

First of all congrats to original poster for a great thread and buids!
I would like to contribute providing a link to my 13 rogue/ 6barbarian/ 1ftr - Acrobat/Berserker:
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=317844
Check the Vicious Acrobat section, as the main build goes generic rogue for extra skills + versatility, while the Acrobat variation focuses more on DPS. Any suggestions/critique greatly appreciated! Enjoy!

Only thing I would do personally would be roll w a 12 int, and 10 cha and put those points to dex...
Instead of where you say switch int/dex scores.

Even starting with a 8 CHA you can get to a No fail on heal scrolls fairly easy.

[Diyon]

Didn't know it went to 5% thats even sweeter. Guess I gotta get up off the couch and get into my chair and make one :).

Ya, it's 5% on both disruptions because the instakill effect is now on vorpal strikes, so provided you confirm, its 5%.

[The_Phenx]

Interesting. They completely changed it. And for the better IMHO.

(and I lied I'm at work) Runs away before the boss catches me... :D

[Dirichlet]

Any tips on soloing through Attack on Stormreach? I got Summerfield and Blockade done at level 11 but it was bloody hard; I'm sure I was only hitting the red names on a 20. I'm at 6 Rogue/6 Monk now and it should be a bit better (+4 hit between BAB, Strength and a Heroism clickie). I could get another +2 next level due to +6 stat items being available (and technically something like 7-8 extra AC over what I have now or so I worked out), but I want my shadowstick now, ******!

What's the recommended upgrade for the SoS anyway? I'm very tempted by Destruction, but I notice Petrifying gets mentioned a lot (like just above).

[Braxion]

Any tips on soloing through Attack on Stormreach? I got Summerfield and Blockade done at level 11 but it was bloody hard; I'm sure I was only hitting the red names on a 20. I'm at 6 Rogue/6 Monk now and it should be a bit better (+4 hit between BAB, Strength and a Heroism clickie). I could get another +2 next level due to +6 stat items being available (and technically something like 7-8 extra AC over what I have now or so I worked out), but I want my shadowstick now, ******!

What's the recommended upgrade for the SoS anyway? I'm very tempted by Destruction, but I notice Petrifying gets mentioned a lot (like just above).

Leveling up, and even on some more dangerous content I am a big fan of the "bloody" Upgrade on the Staff of Shadow. The bodyfeeder goes off more than you think, and does a great job of mitigating damage.

[The_Phenx]

Any tips on soloing through Attack on Stormreach? I got Summerfield and Blockade done at level 11 but it was bloody hard; I'm sure I was only hitting the red names on a 20. I'm at 6 Rogue/6 Monk now and it should be a bit better (+4 hit between BAB, Strength and a Heroism clickie). I could get another +2 next level due to +6 stat items being available (and technically something like 7-8 extra AC over what I have now or so I worked out), but I want my shadowstick now, ******!

What's the recommended upgrade for the SoS anyway? I'm very tempted by Destruction, but I notice Petrifying gets mentioned a lot (like just above).

By Level 11 you should be using greater heroism, look for a planar gird clikcie or UMD a scroll.

You should also be carrying around a divine power clickie to use before those big boss fights.

Also in the lower levels having a staff with a high + is very important

Here is why.

A +3 Flaming burst does the following 3 + 3.5(flaming) so 6.5 damage a hit
90% of the time so x 18 = 117
5% gets a crit for 6(base + 3.5 (flaming) +5.5 (Flaming burst) = 15 dmg
5% is a 1 so a miss for a 20 swing total of 132

If you use a +5 flaming staff its 5 + 3.5 (fire) = 8.5 x 18 = 153
5% crit Chance = 10 + 3.5 = 13.5
For a 20 swing total of 166.5 avg damage

So you see a plain jane +5 Flaming staff will out dps a +3 flaming burst staff AND give you +2 better to hit.

If you can add righteous to a + 3 or better staff that ='s out since its +2 to hit and damage vs evil...

I would also go for the bloody shadow staff it is by far the most useful.

[Ebforest60]

Bloody Shadow Staff is insanely good. With the bodyfeeder proc and the healing return per hit I can often stay near full health soloing without a hireling in Gianthold (at level 14, pure rogue.) Of course you still need to play smart and the aforementioned clickies always help (I need to get GH or even Heroism still.)

I'll also put in a nod to Crimson Chain from the Droam quests: the Haste Guard proc is very nice for a soloer. I realize I should be using haste pots/clickies but often I don't bother (especially if I bring a hireling healer.)

Regarding the +3 burst vs. +5 elemental staff question, I have one of my own. +1 Banishing vs. Dreamspitter? And Dreamspitter vs. Bloody Shadow Staff (any point in going Dreamspitter except on outsiders?)

[Cardtrick]

Bloody Shadow Staff is insanely good

Another vote for "Bloody" as the upgrade. Petrifying or Destructive is arguably more useful at your level, but with Bloody it becomes a situationally useful weapon even at cap. When I'm running quests completely solo -- not even a hireling -- I often use it as my trash weapon of choice. The Bodyfeeder and Lesser Vampirism together make it great for going longer between having to pop a Heal scroll.


Regarding the +3 burst vs. +5 elemental staff question, I have one of my own. +1 Banishing vs. Dreamspitter? And Dreamspitter vs. Bloody Shadow Staff (any point in going Dreamspitter except on outsiders?)

It depends on the content you're running, and on whether your Dreamspitter is unsuppressed. Once you've unsuppressed it, it's a +5 Holy of Greater Evil Outsider Bane, which would be awesome on its own -- a lot of late game and end game enemies are outsiders. The level draining is a happy bonus. It's absolutely my weapon of choice in IQ and the Amrath quests, where I spend a lot of farming time, and in the Subterrane, VoD, and Shroud. In epics, I don't use it as much since U9 removed autocrits -- I often get more use out of a DPS staff like an unsuppressed Force Burst Rahl's -- but it's definitely still useful.

[Diyon]

The bloody staff of shadow at cap is a poor man's Epic Souleater. Provided I can hardly bring myself to put down my epic souleater, a bloody staff of shadow at level should be awesome.

[Ecthelion_numenesse]

hi guys,

i have been reading but have not read all post's in this thread 'cause i was looking for a bard build that uses a quarterstaff.
so my question, is it possible for a virtuoso bard (love bards!) to be splashed by this type of build? (mean stick build). I was thinking of using bard12 / fighter6 / and rogue2 (no monk yet :s ).

thanks a bunch!

[Arlathen]

Anyone crafting there own Staves up yet?

My crafter character (Azraiyel, on Sig) has hit lvls 29/31/31 so at the point of making useful weapons for mid level toons.

I've also noticed on the DDO Store that there are material-based Quartstaffs, something we don't have in Random Loot. So I took a punt and gave it a try...

And yes, you can deconstruct the DDO Store material weapons to be crafting blanks!

So, at the expensive cost of 200TP you too can have Silver, Cold Iron and Adamantine Quartstaffs.

The extra bonus is that the Silver and Cold Iron also come with the DR/Good property to break even Pit fiend DR without adding Holy/PureGood/Righteousness etc.

There is on big gotcha: The DDO Store weapons are BtC on aquire, so no passing them through the bank. Just buy the weapons on your Acrobat - don't buy them on your crafter like I did the first time round :D

Screenshots available if anyone wants to see some Quarterstaff crafting action ;)
It begs the question though that if these staffs are available in the DDO Store, why can't they be in the random loot tables as well??...

[Diyon]

Well, technically, they are KIND of in the random loot table. You can get rather odd weapons from those BtA only end rewards. I've gotten a cold iron staff out of delera's and threnal so far. As well as a staff with two +1 enhancements. And another weapon that was a +1 masterwork weapon. lol


As to the bard with a staff, if you're going for staffs you generally want at least 6 rogue for acrobat I.

[Dirichlet]

Heh, I can only dream of a +5 Flaming. The AH is empty at the moment. Thanks for the tips though. I've got Undermine beat now, so it's just the finale to go.

Current weapons are a plain +5, a +4 Flaming, and a +4 Ghost Touch of Pure Good that I bought for Necro (nice weapon, but wow what a waste of TP). Incidently, it was during a Necro quest that I lost a bidding war on a +5 Metalline of PG; some lucky sod got it for just over 10k. I didn't even get to finish the quest because I only realised at the end that I needed a hireling for it >_<

Seems Bloody SS is unanimously the way to go then. I've actually seen one of them on the AH going cheap (think it was 50k; I couldn't afford it at the time else I'd have snapped it up).

Interesting about the staffs with metal properties. I didn't think they existed. Are the generic BtA end rewards deconstructable? I wouldn't spend TP on a weapon.

Regarding Bard: since you can't take any Monk levels due to alignment restrictions, Barbarian could be a good splash instead of Fighter (I know how much I'd love to splash Barb on a Monk based Acrobat). It synergises a bit better with Warchanter (gives you extra rages); I don't know much about Virtuoso. I agree you want some level of Acrobat to make it work. Either 13 Rogue / 6 Bard / X or 7 Rogue / 12 Bard / X would be my pick.

[The_Phenx]

Screenshots available if anyone wants to see some Quarterstaff crafting action ;)



Not a flood of em but I am definately curious.

[Diyon]

Interesting about the staffs with metal properties. I didn't think they existed. Are the generic BtA end rewards deconstructable? I wouldn't spend TP on a weapon.

Yes. They are, since they are still technically randomly generated loot. The only downside is these tend to have really cruddy durability (although if your just using it as a boss beater it shouldn't be too big of an issue).

[Ecthelion_numenesse]

oh.. ok so Acrobat I is much better than Kensai I for a staff weilding bard?

I chose Virtuoso simply because its the only bard i played with and have enjoyed it either in a party or going solo. don't know bout' warchanter either.

anyway thanks for the replies guys, appreciate it.

[Diyon]

oh.. ok so Acrobat I is much better than Kensai I for a staff weilding bard?

I chose Virtuoso simply because its the only bard i played with and have enjoyed it either in a party or going solo. don't know bout' warchanter either.

anyway thanks for the replies guys, appreciate it.

If you're getting sneak attack, acro I will be better yes. Also attack speed increase that stacks.

[Hobgoblin]

i have a level 10 rogue that i was gonna go pure rogue using staves.

what would it hurt to go to 6 monk/1 fighter and is it to late now?

hob

[Cardtrick]

An acrobat 6/war chanter 14 could actually be quite a strong character, both for soloing and in groups. I actually might roll that up as the bard life for my "rainy day" completionist project to take advantage of all my staffs.

[Diyon]

i have a level 10 rogue that i was gonna go pure rogue using staves.

what would it hurt to go to 6 monk/1 fighter and is it to late now?

hob

It's not too late. The biggest hindrance you may have is alignment. You have to be lawful to take monk levels. You should be able to make something work out of what you have, but its hard to say much without more information.

[The_Phenx]

i have a level 10 rogue that i was gonna go pure rogue using staves.

what would it hurt to go to 6 monk/1 fighter and is it to late now?

hob

There is also nothing wrong with staying pure rogue, its VERY strong.

[Diyon]

There is also nothing wrong with staying pure rogue, its VERY strong.

Also something to note here, is this leaves the possibility to get Acrobat III when it's released.

EDIT: spelling fix

[Cardtrick]

Also something to note hear, is this leaves the possibility to get Acrobat III when it's released.

That's a good point, although even if I was going 18-20 rogue for the possibility of Acro3, I think I'd still do an 18/1/1 build with fighter and monk levels. I'm addicted to feats.

[skunk]

Ok,

Just to upgrade on progress of the undead staff user.

level 11 now. 1 monk, 3 rogue, 7 wiz.

Undead form is kinda clunky, but with haste, rogue haste boost, Expeditious Retreat. It is pretty fun, I switch from Staffs and hand wraps. Currently have Souleater, and Witching Hour.

The good points, is self healing, the downside is the slower attack speed.

I don't like you have to have waterbreathing as an undead dude, but its funny how many people look at my build like (***) and then when i go through, they are like is it fun at the end of the adventure.

Its fun, i really enjoy playing it. The immunities are great, not having to worry about some things really change the style of play. I try to not lead, though i keep up with most fairly well.

Btw, if you want to have fun go into earth stance with no buffs. you attack even slower (training dummy).

I did von 5-6 at level, held my own. I did traps got kills. Just don't have a weapon for constructs.

Peace to all

[The_Phenx]

Undead form is kinda clunky, but with haste, rogue haste boost, Expeditious Retreat. It is pretty fun, I switch from Staffs and hand wraps. Currently have Souleater, and Witching Hour.

Zombie form is very clunky. I tend to think vampire will be MUCH more useful.

[skunk]

Zombie form is very clunky. I tend to think vampire will be MUCH more useful.

here is what i think i would try. Though i can't on this life, i don't think i have enough int on this one i am doing.

Vampire gets faster attack ? (not at my gaming comp, on my laptop here).

Zombie gets more con, and you get a better bab with more hp, attacks slow as molasses, and looks funny.


I am going to morph my current Zombie guy to a vampire. I am glad you pointed out some stuff.


I should be able to cast the 6th level spells with just using the +4 int spell, or if i know a beholder is around, switch to a +4 item.

[Arlathen]

Not a flood of em but I am definately curious.

Apologies for not getting these sooner, I had a broadband outage for two days and had a bit of Raid catching up to do yesterday ;)

I play at a fairly huge 1920x1080 resolution, so I've cut the pertinent information out and added comments where appropriate.

1. DDO Store Base Craft-able Weapons
http://img813.imageshack.us/img813/1363/basecraftable.png

These are the DDO Store weapons after putting them through Disjunction machine. I did put the wrong effect on the Cold Iron staff at first, and therefore discovered they can be re-disjunctioned and have new effects placed on them with losing there special DR breaking properties.


2. The Complete Demon DR Breaker
http://img830.imageshack.us/img830/7701/demondr.png

I had to stop before putting an enhancement bonus on this as it would of taken the ML level above what my Acrobat is at the moment, but as you can see its Lawful, Cold Iron and Good breaking. Post testing the Staff had a +2 Enhancement added to it, but raised its ML to 9 *sigh*. almost there...

3. Unarmed Combat
http://img807.imageshack.us/img807/1227/predrbreak.png

I went into the Fallen Shrine in the Desert to fight the CacoDemons in there, and without any weapons equipped at fighting bare-handed the demon's have a Good DR type to block some damage.

4. Demons Beware - DR Breaker Here we go...
http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/4466/demondrresults.png

There we go, a rather shoddy composite picture of my combat log and the results floating above my ahead. Good DR bypassed, and the demons suffering full damage from Axiomatic and lesser Chaotic Outsider Bane.


Hmm, whats next on the list?
- A Holy Staff of Lesser Vampirism - For Basic work vs. things I don't have Bane for.
- A True Law Staff of Elemental Bane - Most Elementals are Neutral, so...
- Holy Silver Staff of Undead Bane - For most Undead & Vampires.
- True Law Adamantine Staff of Construct Bane - For most Constructs..
- Anarchic Adamatine Staff of Construct Bane -

I restrict myself to working within the +5 Craftable limits at the moment until I can make the appropriate Greater Bane shards, as the Shards of potential above +7 are expensive and you have to fully deconstruct a weapon again in order to replace any effects.

Hope thats all useful ;)

[drac317]

nice,now i gotta build up my acros craft lvl or wait for unbound crafting(though that might be moot point since blanks are btc)

[Failedlegend]

nice,now i gotta build up my acros craft lvl or wait for unbound crafting(though that might be moot point since blanks are btc)

Shards = BTA now

[drac317]

Shards = BTA now
true but dont u need a suffecint lvl to put it all together?
havent really messed with it too much

[Diyon]

Shards = BTA now

Which means you can pass over the shards and blanks and 100% combine them on any character. Note, making a BtC item though.

[Dirichlet]

Yes. They are, since they are still technically randomly generated loot. The only downside is these tend to have really cruddy durability (although if your just using it as a boss beater it shouldn't be too big of an issue).

If I understand it correctly, hardness and durability level up with crafting whenever you increase the ML of an item, so that shouldn't be a problem.

Oh I got my Shadowstick btw; loving it. The last quest wasn't that hard, and lots of fun. That whole pack is godly.

[kernal42]

true but dont u need a suffecint lvl to put it all together?
havent really messed with it too much

Nope; putting a shard onto an item is a level 1 recipe; anyone can perform it. The only hard part is creating the shards in the first place, and this is mitigated by having shards BTA.

-Kernal

[drac317]

Nope; putting a shard onto an item is a level 1 recipe; anyone can perform it. The only hard part is creating the shards in the first place, and this is mitigated by having shards BTA.

-Kernal
cool, thanx for the info Kern

[Diyon]

If I understand it correctly, hardness and durability level up with crafting whenever you increase the ML of an item, so that shouldn't be a problem.

Oh I got my Shadowstick btw; loving it. The last quest wasn't that hard, and lots of fun. That whole pack is godly.

I was not aware of this. This makes things a little nicer for my future crafting plans.

[Arlathen]

I'll stress this point again to hopefully save someone the pain of wasted TPs...

Buy the DDO Store staffs on your Acrobat, regardless of if your Acrobat is a crafter or not.

The staffs are immediately Bound to Character on purchase, and cannot be passed through the Shared Bank. They also stay BtC when deconstructed to crafting blanks, unlike normal item blank deconstruction.

[The_Phenx]

here is what i think i would try. Though i can't on this life, i don't think i have enough int on this one i am doing.

Vampire gets faster attack ? (not at my gaming comp, on my laptop here).

Zombie gets more con, and you get a better bab with more hp, attacks slow as molasses, and looks funny.


I am going to morph my current Zombie guy to a vampire. I am glad you pointed out some stuff.


I should be able to cast the 6th level spells with just using the +4 int spell, or if i know a beholder is around, switch to a +4 item.

Vampire doesnt get more speed, but it doesn't slow you down like zombie does. They did a terrible job with that form. Vampire gets +2 str and Cha? I believe, and you regain 1 point of health per (unarmed) attack, +100% fort.

But the self healing self buffing and not looking stupid is a good start.

[The_Phenx]

I'll stress this point again to hopefully save someone the pain of wasted TPs...

Buy the DDO Store staffs on your Acrobat, regardless of if your Acrobat is a crafter or not.

The staffs are immediately Bound to Character on purchase, and cannot be passed through the Shared Bank. They also stay BtC when deconstructed to crafting blanks, unlike normal item blank deconstruction.

Linked this on the main page too... hopefully save a lil heartache.

[skunk]

Vampire doesnt get more speed, but it doesn't slow you down like zombie does. They did a terrible job with that form. Vampire gets +2 str and Cha? I believe, and you regain 1 point of health per (unarmed) attack, +100% fort.

But the self healing self buffing and not looking stupid is a good start.

I think vamps do con damage on hit also. I am at level 12 now, i started with a 12 int, so i can self buff to the 16 int i need later on.

I am going to goof around at 20 and try a few different things out. I want to try fully buffing then casting tensers tranformation, and see what that does. I need to know how to get out of it, if you can. I also want to know what it stacks with. it could be great for boss fights, if there is a PM caster in the party. I doubt i would need the extra to hit on trash mobs.

So the question is what gear at 20 lol. I have an idea, i might need to add something archmagi into it for the spell points for buffing, then switch out. Maybe headslot for minos?

Edit *on the souleater, i seem to notice it breaks faster then other staffs i have. i bound it and just am putting the toughness on it, did this happen to others* any other staffs this is needed on?

[The_Phenx]

A LOT of staffs break easy... Take 1 tier of the rogue item defense makes all the difference in the world.

:D