Melee are in such a bad place right now

[kuzka111]

are melee should be good only in heroic and reaper1-5?

do we all need to tr in casters?

why do melee get mostly only nerfs? and casters can blow through r8-10 and melee cant?


Discuss


and before i will get wall of caster's lover posts yes melee are in bad spot bc:

melee def dont exist, ac is **** , prr is too low in r8+ bc you get 1-2 hitted ( you need to be dodge build or suck)
why 90% melee build is splahing with warlock only to get easy 20 melee power from Arcane warrior
why 90% of melee need to skip capstone of there class only to get capstone from vistani bc its better to spend 41 ap in vistani to get that capstone?
why at 31 lvl feat casters get secoundary 3dc , range get 10 attack and 5% dodge buypass and melee get secoundary speciality that 99% ppl dont use... is it a joke or dves dont play this game?
and many many more


this thread is not calling for caster/range nerf , im here to buff melee that suck atm at r8+ ( i mean normal melee build not dodge meta **** )

[Marshal_Lannes]

You are making broad generalizations that aren't rooted in factual data. Now, I agree that people gravitate toward ranged and casters for the simple fact that dealing damage from a distance while not getting hit is going to be more popular than actually getting hit. And yes, Melee could use some added defensive perks that are only available to them. That said, my static group has primarily melee characters in it and we crush R8s. Concentrated melee DPS on well-geared/built characters is amazing to see.

Where are you getting your 90/99% benchmarks? I see virtually no melee builds splashing warlock. I see it on some ranged builds for the debuff (not for melee/ranged power). 90% of melee are spending 41 pts in Vistani? Again, where are you getting this? That's certainly not the case for most Barbarians, Fighters, and Paladins. The level 31 combat style feats are somewhat niche, I agree, but Wild Force is amazing for Wolves and Bears, and taking 100 HPs is usually the best option anyway - even for casters.

There are legitimate improvements that can be made to melee and these mainly deal with damage mitigation and AOE attacks that make them on par with room-clearing caster DPS. However, none of these can be addressed if we overexaggerate what is happening in the game worlds.

I'm optimistic that the next expansion/mini-expansion will be slanted toward melee items (IoD items are weighted toward casters). This could bandaid things until core game mechanics like damage mitigation are addressed.

[Fauxknight]

I agree melee have defensive issues on high reaper. If we discount tanks of course, a decent tank is absolutely the best way to control Doom reapers.

I disagree that melee dps are bad at anything else. In raids and lower reaper a good melee is an absolute beast.

I've never seen the Warlock or VKF workarounds mentioned being used. I can see them as viable in niche circumstances, but not for general/common build design. Definitely not 90%, maybe 1-2%?

[GoldyGopher]

I play a melee at Cap who generally pugs Legendary content between R6 and R8. For the record it is hybrid Monk Pally, wielding a Falchion. So I will add my 2 CP.

At R6 (and below) my character holds her own in this content. I may not be the top killer according to the kill count, usually I am closer to the top than the bottom. Stepping it up to R8, I might as will be a piker at the door for as effective as I feel.

Why the difference?
I believe I saw the same difference moving from R3 to R6. In my case I clearly think its gearing and the inability to get the gear (**** you nebula fragment) necessary to take this character to the next level. The nebula fragment isn't the only thing I need but I am really tired of the Saltmash Quests at this time. With 400 plus runs of A Legend Revisited it would be nice to get a Jibbers' Blade for this character as well. I just cannot pull squat for gear that I need, Tomes well I have a bank toon full of them.

To me this highlights a problem, how few choices a melee has in gearing; making the gear Tetris much more challenging. Casters, Ranged, and to a certain extent Tank Builds appear to have multiple choices in gearing, thus gear get shared quite quickly in a pug run for these builds, yet if an item drops that is melee specific they rarely get offered up in my pugs. That is not to say there isn't Gear Set 1 A for a Sorc Nuker, rather 1B is closer to 1A than it is with Melee.

[LavidDynch]

The game itself is weighted against melee; the game is fundamentally balanced in favor of casters and ranged. You used to run out real fast of mana as a caster, and you used to do really horrible damage as a ranged character.

[rabidfox]

are melee should be good only in heroic and reaper1-5?
<snip>
im here to buff melee that suck atm at r8+ ( i mean normal melee build not dodge meta **** )

Melee are great in r10s quests. They're great in raids. All the melee I run with shred everything in their path and dish out massive damage.

[Eantarus]

The game itself is weighted against melee; the game is fundamentally balanced in favor of casters and ranged. You used to run out real fast of mana as a caster, and you used to do really horrible damage as a ranged character.

You just know the devs response to this will be to nerf casters and ranged into oblivion, rather than buff melees.

[amessi1]

my main is a 16 ftr/4monk in cloth in the flowers epic destiny and I absolutely love it at end game high reapers. I've recently run an assassin in light armor in the shadow destiny, which was also a blast.

i've been a critic of melees in the past, but with a moderate to reasonable healer in the group both of these builds are v.fun to play.

for me the hit point pass made a huge difference, it gave me enough time to get out of danger and give my healer enough time to get me back into the battle.

a fairly large caveat here, outside of a purpose built tank, heavy armor melee are in a rough spot for sure, or you need a v.v.good healer to have fun.

as with most builds, agro management is key...as in,my threat gen is a large negative number and am single-target dps (strike through grabs too much agro and is only good on trash mobs that the caster should be killing anyway (IMO))...no way do I want the agro of some sorc that blasted the whole room...that's more for the tank. and also, spring attack (or wings, abundant step) is my go to get out of combat approach...kinda wish the team would give defensive escape more visibility as it's key to giving healer time to heal. in light/cloth armor getting mrr cap up is a must, but not to difficult these days.

anyway, if you haven't played melee in a while, go for it, I hope you'll find the changes made, while minor, were done well and will keep you fighting longer. in many ways the current design feels real, that is almost no build should be safe standing still in a room, it'd be too easy for assailants to take you out...best defense in DDO still remains "W, A, S, D". i've not seen any real life fights where one guy just stood still while folks attacked from all angles...Bruce Lee was always moving.

[ChaosBuddha]

im not saying melee is as good as casters but i have seen some crazy chain build just blow through r10 lately.

[Azoyhn]

are melee should be good only in heroic and reaper1-5?

do we all need to tr in casters?

why do melee get mostly only nerfs? and casters can blow through r8-10 and melee cant?


Discuss


and before i will get wall of caster's lover posts yes melee are in bad spot bc:

melee def dont exist, ac is **** , prr is too low in r8+ bc you get 1-2 hitted ( you need to be dodge build or suck)
why 90% melee build is splahing with warlock only to get easy 20 melee power from Arcane warrior
why 90% of melee need to skip capstone of there class only to get capstone from vistani bc its better to spend 41 ap in vistani to get that capstone?
why at 31 lvl feat casters get secoundary 3dc , range get 10 attack and 5% dodge buypass and melee get secoundary speciality that 99% ppl dont use... is it a joke or dves dont play this game?
and many many more


this thread is not calling for caster/range nerf , im here to buff melee that suck atm at r8+ ( i mean normal melee build not dodge meta **** )

I'm not sure you're playing with the correct people, if those are your statistics. Generally speaking, there is definitely a lack of melee, but melee are definitely not in the worst spot. Unfortunately, the meta for melee is going to be shifter wraps because it's broken, melee monk for dodge + debuffs, or the broken barbearilock which is very strong. Those can all take a few hits on R10. I'm running with an overpowered wolf that has decent hp (~4,5k hp), decent prr (~350), and decent offense. Could you please inform me the location of your statistics?

[LavidDynch]

You just know the devs response to this will be to nerf casters and ranged into oblivion, rather than buff melees.

Yeah your 100% right, and the above is something I wouldn´t want... why on earth did I say what is obvious to anyone playing the game

It is a bit funny thou, as soon as melee happens to be in a sweet spot, the melee community embraces it fast and it gets nerfed within a hotfix...

[Kutalp]

are melee should be good only in heroic and reaper1-5?

do we all need to tr in casters?

why do melee get mostly only nerfs? and casters can blow through r8-10 and melee cant?


Discuss


and before i will get wall of caster's lover posts yes melee are in bad spot bc:

melee def dont exist, ac is **** , prr is too low in r8+ bc you get 1-2 hitted ( you need to be dodge build or suck)
why 90% melee build is splahing with warlock only to get easy 20 melee power from Arcane warrior
why 90% of melee need to skip capstone of there class only to get capstone from vistani bc its better to spend 41 ap in vistani to get that capstone?
why at 31 lvl feat casters get secoundary 3dc , range get 10 attack and 5% dodge buypass and melee get secoundary speciality that 99% ppl dont use... is it a joke or dves dont play this game?
and many many more


this thread is not calling for caster/range nerf , im here to buff melee that suck atm at r8+ ( i mean normal melee build not dodge meta **** )

Take out epic destinies, universal trees and ultimate gear power (which is sadly the real deal).


For now all 'builds' consist of This Universal enhancement tree and That critical enhancement there. Half a dozen active boosts from tens of diffeent sorces. Gear overpower is off the roof and npcs overpower at certain settings is pretty much broken. Gear defines more than half of it for all 'builds'.

I agree melee has got limited option for balancing offense and defense and survival, especially at solo play. Meanwhile the original caster classes also find themselves spamming same level 1-3 spells or epic destiny spells over and over instead of using the original repertoire of the class.

I also agree there is lots of easy to get items to boost spell power thus Eldricht knight (or similar brute with spell power support) heavy 'builds' steam roll all over the place. (See, a 'Caster caster' is not a happy one at this one either. Can you hear the Archmage cry at that corner)

Working 'caster' buildz...Spell book, rich reportoire of spells, lots of fun ? No...Spell like ability, boring metamagics, not enough spell points...Rince and repeat, same cycle forever.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4Ox2t5c4As






Meanwhile melee or ranged doesnt get that support. Once again it is heavily dependant on the caster's gear/Universal tree/Critical based passive-active hot bar smashing, aswell.

I believe the toughest class to run solo (or to play very slow and carefully) may be the pure Rogue class if doesnt multiclass or use another Universal tree. (Usually this and lots of gear power)



Long story short. I agree with you but also add it is not that bright for all other class/builds aswell.



Buildz parody:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGUJM-MAk-4

[Monkey_Archer]

This seems like a good thread to repeat the same point I've made for about a year now...

The problem with DDO is not any particular build. The problem is that there is no difficulty setting that isn't easy.

Monsters need triple their current hp and all champions need deathward at a bare minimum to restore any semblance of challenge in r10.

Until that happens, everyone should just TR into an AOE build or caster if you want to participate in quests.

[Ereshkigal]

are melee should be good only in heroic and reaper1-5?

do we all need to tr in casters?

why do melee get mostly only nerfs? and casters can blow through r8-10 and melee cant?


Discuss


and before i will get wall of caster's lover posts yes melee are in bad spot bc:

melee def dont exist, ac is **** , prr is too low in r8+ bc you get 1-2 hitted ( you need to be dodge build or suck)
why 90% melee build is splahing with warlock only to get easy 20 melee power from Arcane warrior
why 90% of melee need to skip capstone of there class only to get capstone from vistani bc its better to spend 41 ap in vistani to get that capstone?
why at 31 lvl feat casters get secoundary 3dc , range get 10 attack and 5% dodge buypass and melee get secoundary speciality that 99% ppl dont use... is it a joke or dves dont play this game?
and many many more


this thread is not calling for caster/range nerf ,I'm here to buff melee that suck atm at r8+ ( i mean normal melee build not dodge meta **** )

Melee don't move quickly enough to get into melee range compared to casters with rays and enlarged aoe effects imo. Until that is addressed, I just won't play melee builds. I also don't desire a nerf to casters, but a buff to melee movement speed or something is called for i think.

[Axcarth]

Melee are great in r10s quests. They're great in raids...

Really? Please check the forum for the lasts reaper raids completions and tell me how many melee dps you found in there. Yap, besides tanks, zero. You will find 4 casters, 4 ranged, 2 healers, 2 tanks. Melees not being part of this equation should tell you something... Remember I'm talking bout reaper raids, not those rune farming hard dif raids pugs you see around every day.

[Arkat]

Melee are great in r10s quests. They're great in raids. All the melee I run with shred everything in their path and dish out massive damage.

Same.

My melees do pretty well in R6-R8 content, but are not so good in higher difficulties.

But that's likely due to the fact I have ZERO completionist (of any sort) toons and also that NONE of my toons have more than 25 reaper points.

If I had any Uber Completionist toons with 156+ reaper points, I'm sure R10 content would be something one of my melee toons could handle.

[Arkat]

Really? Please check the forum for the lasts reaper raids completions and tell me how many melee dps you found in there. Yap, besides tanks, zero. You will find 4 casters, 4 ranged, 2 healers, 2 tanks. Melees not being part of this equation should tell you something... Remember I'm talking bout reaper raids, not those rune farming hard dif raids pugs you see around every day.

rabidfox and I are both in Lava Divers on Khyber.

I see melee DPS in reaper content and rabidfox sees PLENTY of melee DPS toons in the guild's R10 challenge (push) raids.

[Raithe]

...that is almost no build should be safe standing still in a room, it'd be too easy for assailants to take you out...best defense in DDO still remains "W, A, S, D". i've not seen any real life fights where one guy just stood still while folks attacked from all angles...Bruce Lee was always moving.

Casters and ranged characters are free to be always moving while attacking, which is why they need the deficiencies of spell points and low DPS. Constantly moving as a melee is all about positioning with regards to multiple foes, moving around when there is just one foe to hit is only going to lower your damage output, the game is not responsive enough for movement to affect incoming damage at such close range. And no one has been safe standing still in a quest since the armor class pass more than a decade ago.

One of the major problems with the rampant power creep that is the game of DDO is that it makes it very difficult to judge the game design. Some melee will be able to 1-shot most of the mobs in an at-level reaper 10 dungeon. Newer players will take 5 minutes to whittle the same mob down, using all of their hirelings spell points on just 1 mob. For the purpose of this thread, you really need to abandon the game design metrics and instead look at griefing tactics to figure out how the game is faring.

The question that everyone should ask is this: would it be possible for a pair of ranged/caster characters with all the available resources for any particular level to prevent anyone else from contributing to the quest?

If you don't know, the answer to that is yes.

[EdsanDarkbane]

are melee should be good only in heroic and reaper1-5?

do we all need to tr in casters?

why do melee get mostly only nerfs? and casters can blow through r8-10 and melee cant?


Discuss


and before i will get wall of caster's lover posts yes melee are in bad spot bc:

melee def dont exist, ac is **** , prr is too low in r8+ bc you get 1-2 hitted ( you need to be dodge build or suck)
why 90% melee build is splahing with warlock only to get easy 20 melee power from Arcane warrior
why 90% of melee need to skip capstone of there class only to get capstone from vistani bc its better to spend 41 ap in vistani to get that capstone?
why at 31 lvl feat casters get secoundary 3dc , range get 10 attack and 5% dodge buypass and melee get secoundary speciality that 99% ppl dont use... is it a joke or dves dont play this game?
and many many more


this thread is not calling for caster/range nerf , im here to buff melee that suck atm at r8+ ( i mean normal melee build not dodge meta **** )

I agree that there is a clear disconnect with AC and PRR. The change to dodge eventually became an issue and was also nerfed.

The reality is it needs to be adjusted so we can play any type of melee we want. We can play any type of caster we want. Just want the same thing for melee

[scut207]

I agree that there is a clear disconnect with AC and PRR. The change to dodge eventually became an issue and was also nerfed.

The reality is it needs to be adjusted so we can play any type of melee we want. We can play any type of caster we want. Just want the same thing for melee

Honestly, if they made a fourth column in the melee/ranged reaper tree that got significant defenses such that it would also require (GTHF or GSWF or GTWF to limit it to melee centric builds) at the top tiers, make it also scale to R-lvl. so on R1 it might be 2 MRR-PRR but on R10 it would be 30 or 40 something like that. They could boost AC/SR/PRR & MRR etc so that melee arent speed bumps in R9/10.

just a thought.