U56 Preview 2: TOEE Revamp Item Feedback

[Tanky]

Eyes of the Lady of Rot and Decay incorrectly provides Artifact *Acid* spellpower on both the Heroic and Legendary set bonuses. Should instead be negative/poison spellpower.

[Tanky]

Taint of Evil is kinda laughable on a level 31 item. Ooooh, I lose 5 HP. That mechanic hasn't been revisited since it first showed up on the heroic Litany of the Dead. If you're gonna put it on an item, then make the impact meaningful while at the same time giving the item some "oomph". Clouded Dreams is the best example of great itemization but at a price. Legendary Emblem of Elemental Evil is not so legendary.

[Saekee]

will the new rubies stack with the same effect on the older legacy items?

if they are in the offhand, will they proc on the mainhand for TWF?

will the legacy items for set bonuses with the new stuff?

[JOTMON]

Hey everyone! While U56's Temple of Elemental Evil isn't quite ready for public preview, most of the new loot is! Here's the high level overview of loot in this pack, and then we'd love to hear your feedback.

I am not sure you do.

New Items!
Items that drop from the revamped Temple of Elemental Evil will now be

Boring and flooded with copy paste duplicates....

Optional Encounters!
There will be a few tougher optionals in the new Temple, and that's where you will be able to locate the old named items you used to be able to find in the Temple's Random Encounter chests (Sapphire Sting, etc). These items are unchanged, still retaining their current stats and Minimum Level. We'd discussed upgrading these to the new power level and minimum level, but for balance and overall gameplay reasons we have decided to leave them alone. They are important items to a lot of builds, though, so we wanted to make sure they remained available to find, hence why they will be dropping in chests after defeating these optional encounters.

So, no upgraded versions of these.... The items unique to TOEE that we would be interested in seeing upgraded....

What happened to the old crafting system?
We took a hard look at the existing TOEE crafting system and ultimately decided to leave it behind. Existing ingredients will continue to exist, but won't drop anymore. Existing bases and crafted weapons and armor will continue to exist, but won't drop anymore.

Another abandoned crafting system with old ingredients left cluttering they system with no future use or conversion options...
Most of these ingredients are BTA, so no trading them around for others to use up.
..This trend is frustratingly annoying...

We're really excited for you to check out the revamped Temple of Elemental Evil, and we hope you check out the items up for preview on Lamannia! Let us know what you think!

Pro's:
Breaking down TOEE into more quest segments

Con's:
Everything else I have seen so far...


So far.. for me.. I don't see TOEE being included in the questing rotation.. more of a one and done for favor (at best) then back to targeted content that gives opportunity to achieve desirable perks.

[Yamani]

Why no quality dex/str? Put in quality versions of the other 4 stats.

[Lominal]

small tweak, but can we take insightful deadly and change it to quality deadly, almost everyone is using trances currently and having a second non artifact source of quality deadly would be nice for melees (third for ranged)

[archerforever]

Considering the theme of the quest, you need to focus on elementals for the gear : Fire / Ice / Acid / Thunder
Additionnaly I think you should keep ingredients of the crafting system to upgrade items/augments/set effects.

- Make different and UNIQUE items bonuses and set effects based on these elements ( on hit , on spell cast, with elemental arrows, on spellsword and in elemental form !!!)
- We need something SPECIAL for AA and EK based on the elemental ( special effects / procs / damage / debuff...)
- The weapon has to NOT be a part of the set (we need the option to play with our isle of dread weapon ! or at least add a very AMAZING SPECIAL set bonus effect when you have the weapon being a part of the set to be competitive)
- We need elemental vulnerability on hit/spell ( from set bonus / items / augments )
- We need spell power ( from set bonus / items / augments )
- We need spell lore ( from set bonus / items / augments )
- We need elemental damage with weapons + burst elemental damage + blast elemental damage + AOE procs + Single target proc ( AOE proc is very rare, it could be nice to have it here)
- We need something equivalent of the green steel / LGS proc ( from set bonus / items / augments obtainable with a crafting system maybe ? )
- Becoming an elemental with full set bonus ? if you are already in elemental form you have big bonuses
- Strip elemental Immunity to the element on hit/spells ( from set bonus )
- Make all your spells damage becoming that elemental type damage ( exemple : magic missile becoming acid/fire/cold/electricity damage depending on the set)

There are A LOT of ideas to get there, I hope you will impress everyone with the upcoming update ! (in the good way )

[droid327]

Elemental Blast, ML8, does 2-20 on crit (assuming a x3 mult) and 4-24 on vorp. That's worth 0.7+.55 per crit range. So even with a really good Heroic crit profile (say, 14-20/x3), that's worth 4.55 damage per hit. Compare that to a simple ML8 elemental damage Ruby, freely available from multiple sources, which does 3d6 = 10.5 per hit. You can see there's no way the Blast augment is ever going to be anywhere close to the much easier-to-acquire and consistent Damage ruby.

The Epic version does 8-80 (lets assume x4 in Epic) but only 6-36 more on vorp. That's 1.05+2.2 per crit range. So with a 13-20 range, that's 18.65 damage per hit, cf 8d6 elemental ruby at 28. So same issue.

[Oxarhamar]

Elemental Blast, ML8, does 2-20 on crit (assuming a x3 mult) and 4-24 on vorp. That's worth 0.7+.55 per crit range. So even with a really good Heroic crit profile (say, 14-20/x3), that's worth 4.55 damage per hit. Compare that to a simple ML8 elemental damage Ruby, freely available from multiple sources, which does 3d6 = 10.5 per hit. You can see there's no way the Blast augment is ever going to be anywhere close to the much easier-to-acquire and consistent Damage ruby.

The Epic version does 8-80 (lets assume x4 in Epic) but only 6-36 more on vorp. That's 1.05+2.2 per crit range. So with a 13-20 range, that's 18.65 damage per hit, cf 8d6 elemental ruby at 28. So same issue.

true

These augments need to do damage on hit plus the crit effect to be useful for rarity

[CeltEireson]

Taint of Evil is kinda laughable on a level 31 item. Ooooh, I lose 5 HP. That mechanic hasn't been revisited since it first showed up on the heroic Litany of the Dead. If you're gonna put it on an item, then make the impact meaningful while at the same time giving the item some "oomph". Clouded Dreams is the best example of great itemization but at a price. Legendary Emblem of Elemental Evil is not so legendary.

Isn't it a negative level - which includes a drop in to hit, saves, dcs etc, as well as the hitpoint drop?

[droid327]

Isn't it a negative level - which includes a drop in to hit, saves, dcs etc, as well as the hitpoint drop?

The neg level from gear is not the same as a true neg level, ie from beholders...its a watered down version thats pretty negligible

[Marshal_Lannes]

This didn't get fixed to the intended Lesser Displacement in time for this preview, but will be fixed in the next one.
As for the goggles, they changed sets shortly before this Preview and need a new name to match. Any suggestions?

Eyes of Eternal Flame

Since they have a yellow slot and Deadly can be slotted and Deadly shows up a ton on equipment, perhaps consider swapping out Deadly for either Exceptional or Quality Seeker.

[archest]

What happened to the old crafting system?
We took a hard look at the existing TOEE crafting system and ultimately decided to leave it behind. Existing ingredients will continue to exist, but won't drop anymore. Existing bases and crafted weapons and armor will continue to exist, but won't drop anymore. The crafting station will still exist somewhere, so if you have leftover ingredients you can use them to finish up anything you might be working on. As we said above, we made static named versions of all of the fully-upgraded armors that you can find in end chests, but we won't be adding new Weapons to this pack.


I would like to see a way to spend these crafting ingredients or exchange them for PP to remove them from storage without just dropping them .
sorta like the Khyber shards for trap the soul, the compensation wasn't worth the effort of converting them into tiny average and large for the measly pp that was exchanged for them when the system was changed in an earlier update.

Robbery! I say it was Robbery!

possibly add an augment to the exchange for them .
all that farming for nothing .
personal note never cared for that particular crafting ability in TOEE. because is was impossible for the amount of time you needed to play the same quest to get anything .

answer me this how can you continue to work on an existing item if the crafting ingredients aren't dropping anymore?


I'm for the revamp, tis its great .

[HailBlazR]

What happened to the old crafting system?
We took a hard look at the existing TOEE crafting system and ultimately decided to leave it behind. Existing ingredients will continue to exist, but won't drop anymore. Existing bases and crafted weapons and armor will continue to exist, but won't drop anymore. The crafting station will still exist somewhere, so if you have leftover ingredients you can use them to finish up anything you might be working on. As we said above, we made static named versions of all of the fully-upgraded armors that you can find in end chests, but we won't be adding new Weapons to this pack.


The old crafting system had literally more than 500 distinct craftable bases. Obtaining the exact one you wanted was extremely daunting in Epics, and nearly impossible in Heroics. We experimented with a few methods of obtaining the bases in a different way, but dealing with that many base types was either performance-intensive or a bad gameplay experience. The existing crafting system was needlessly grindy in Epics and almost impossible to finish in one life in Heroics. And ultimately, there are already good weapons available in other content at both of these levels. The TOEE ones aren't holding up a critical niche, all of the weapon art can be found on other weapons in the game, and we've added some of the new Augments to help bring some of that flavor to your existing weapons.

This is a particularly bad change.

Sure, other good items exist around ML 7, but for most item types, NOTHING compares to the 15d6 AoE damage on Vorpals. ToEE ML 7 melee weapons are the cream of the crop, and it's not even close. Shortswords have Blade of the Clouds which is also disgustingly OP for its level, but I can't think of a single other weapon type which has a better ML 7 weapon than ToEE. Some weapon types, like Daggers and Longswords, have low ML weapons with expanded crit ranges (e.g. Nightforge Avenger Blade, Theurgic Stave, Nightforge Stiletto), but even in these cases, ToEE outshines them for most of heroics, due to how AoE-oriented DDO is. ML 7 ToEE weapons handily out-dps most Greensteel weapons, even in level 18-19 heroic content. That's how good AoE is.

I don't know if you guys even read feedback here, much less act on it, but I'd seriously suggest not throwing out the baby with the bathwater. Yes, the old system is extremely grindy and luck-reliant, but why nix it entirely? How about something like Sands' Antique Bronze Tokens, where you collect ingredients and then can exchange them for an upgraded ToEE Weapon of your choice? Or Saltmarsh/Feywild/Ravenloft/Sharn with Flamesalt + Ferrocrystal + Barovians + Syranian weaponry? Sure, 4 elements means it's more tedious to code, but all the framework is already kind of existent anyway.

Another thing to consider is that the overpowered ML 7 weapons will still continue to exist in the game. Thus, players such as myself, who farmed out the old weapons and have the ML 7 weapons with their ridiculous AoEs, are at a distinct advantage over the new players, who will never have access to these weapons. This is a weird example of "reverse power creep" where newer players/Johnny-Come-Latelies are being disadvantaged over veterans.

[noinfo]

Starting points

Make the weapons upgradeble to Level 31 via pack ingredients

Have the named weapons upgrades via schism system to raid weapons

Change artifact bonus to profane.
Related for schisms add extra chest to raid for clearing rooms. Update schism crafted items

[Annex]

At this point in time, I do not see any Temple equipment (L8 or L31) worth using. Perhaps that will change in the future.

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The augments may prove useful and should sell well on the auction houses. I have not attempted to equip my high level Wizards and do not know if the spell power augments will help them.

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If Temple chests dropped Saltmarsh filigrees, it would cut down on my personal Saltmarsh fatigue. (Here I presume Saltmarsh and Temple quests will have equivalent difficulty.)

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I could really use augments of:
1) Insightful Physical Sheltering
2) Insightful Magical Sheltering
3) Insightful Dodge
4) Doublestrike
5) Seeker

I know they do not fit with the Temple theme but...I want 'em.

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Take a Borderlands horse, skin it with textures from air, earth, fire, and water elementals, and put the resulting steeds in Temple chests. That should be fairly easy for the art department. Make them extremely rare drops.

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Take the Diadem of Spectre from Night revels, skin it with textures from air, earth, fire, and water elementals, and put the resulting cosmetic helms in Temple chests. That should be fairly easy for the art department. Make them extremely rare drops.

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Take the Greater Gem of Ocean's Winds from Crystal Cove. Create a version that summons a Level 31 Air Elemental. Make this new gem a rare drop in Temple chests. Do the same for Earth, Fire, and Water elementals.

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Add one or two purely utility swap items. The two obvious spells for such items are Fire Shield and Cold Shield.

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Put a Permanent Gold Seal Hire Level 30 Salamander in Temple chests as a very rare drop.

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If Temple quest breakup and balancing goes well, I will definitely add them to the rotation. At this time, Temple chests do not drop anything that would cause me to run Temple quests unusually often. Add some of the items suggested above to keep me busy for a while.

[Lanadazia]

i like that you maintain existing items here, but if i haven't grinded enough materials already, my old bases won't be upgradeable.
since this system is not being continued, we need a source of old materials. maybe a turn in of new items for old materials? or maybe an upgrade for a few astral shards, or just for free?
right now i'm stuck with a bunch of weapons and i don't have enough shroomies to upgrade a single one.

i like that you give people the chance to upgrade what they have left - but i guess most people are midway to their upgrades, hence this option of keeping now-trash-mats is kinda counterintuitive