U50 Preview 1: New Universal Enhancement Tree: Horizon Walker

[Artos_Fabril]

The problem is that I would think most Dex ranged builds will not have to sacrifice much, if anything at all, for the Dex Trance as they will always get something for each AP they spend.

I agree. Maybe add a +1/2/3 tumble and MDB to T1 and +1/2/3 dodge in light/no armor to T2.

[archerforever]

I dont find this new tree very interresting especially for archers who are in the need of work and love from DDO s team since very very very long time.
Core abilities look very weak, and maybe are the worst core of all trees in the game. Reduce the AC of a monster is just totally useless, -4 to save is not enough and -20% fortification is the only thing not totally trash.
This tree looks like a bad joke compared to the inquisitive tree or even the illusionist.
This tree is for a single target DPS bow user (and deepwood stalker is exactly the same thing) and "Scattershot" looks like something this build doesn t need as it is designed actually. It uses manyshot charges (which is pretty bad) to hit three different enemies at close range and shoot one arrow at each of them... when the main thing to do with that tree is to mark a mob to debuff it and kill it...
"Scattershot" should be a stance and when activated your attacks with bows are now limited in range and hit all ennemies in a cone like warlocks.
The mark should be a passive and not an active skill... so boring to spam the mark every 4 secs.... just make it that it marks the first target you hit every 4 secs...

Overall this tree looks like something that could be good but need a lot of better ideas to be as good as other trees and make it really unique.

[Thar]

Seems to be several things here that are just low skills, like they didn't know what to put in the tree to fill up space.
Clicky marking system, Detect Secret Doors as a T-3, and (+1/+1) at T-4 are just examples. This is dubious at best.

Practically, I'd see no reason to dip this tree, unless I needed a source of arrows, or was RP-ing.

agree, this tree doesn't solve the inherent problems with bow combat. too slow, too light hitting. Back to crossbow for my ranger unfortunately.

Core's are horrible including the capstone compared to others. mob AC barely matters in the game. decreased fort is useful but 5% per core should be an add on not the primary benefit.

evasion as a tier 5?? yes some classes don't get evasion but it's not needed with mrr and almost all the archers pre u49 had evasion as a class skill.

double the attack speed or arrows shot in the tree and then maybe it's useful enough to make archery viable.

[Artos_Fabril]

Not overly impressed. UT's are replacing what should be done in respective class trees.

Of all the issues with this tree and this system, this complaint is least grounded in the source material. Universal Trees are much more like 3.5e prestige classes than class enhancement trees, which more closely resemble 5e or Pathfinder "paths"

[Enderoc]

Looking at everyone missing the first blood like 15d10 force damage capped at lvl 30 that scales with ranged power and doubles on marked targets added into all the other damage bonuses you can aquire as a tier 2 enhancement....
That's pretty heavy...
It would be good on a silver flame war priest if you added in falconry
But now looking deeper...it has a huge spike damage to a single target by tier 5..
A Rogue Monk or Ranger with max sneak and bluff could just pick dudes off
Its definitely a Reaper type tree

[FuryFlash]

Some quick considerations:
- The damage line feels a bit off; I would either make this a complete line, or make them independent enhancements that feel a bit more interesting
- The cores - especially 2, 3 and 4 - feel too bland and repetitive. I'd like a more memorable upgrade at these levels, doesn't even need to be stronger necessarily
- Misty Step is a little too reminiscent of Misty Escape
- Please remove Improved Archer's Focus - copy pasting feels real bad:
1. I want new stuff in a new tree, especially in a T5
2. This tree should support other classes, not give every class DWS. Variety is great; giving everyone the same stuff means everyone's stuff gets boring

Overall really liking the direction and I can see some new playstyles coming out of it, looks sweet!

[unbongwah]

The first Core in this tree works a bit like Assassin's trick; it's an Active ability that leaves an effect on your targeted enemy, and after that the things that affect Marked Targets work on that enemy. Using Marked Target on another enemy while you have an existing, living Marked Target will clear it from them. Using Improved Precise Shot and hitting other enemies before/after your Marked Target on the Bow attacks will do the attack's weapon damage to other enemies, and only do the Marked Target effects to your Marked Target (assuming they're hit by the attack).

So the first obvious question: will Mark Target's debuffs stack with Assassin's Trick and/or Mark of the Hunted (Deepwood Stalker)?

• No Step Missed: Battle Trance. Cooldown: 20 Seconds. Antirequisite: Other Trances. Charges: 5. Expend 1 Charge: You gain an Insight bonus to damage and the DC of tactical feats equal to 1/2 of your Dexterity modifier for [30/60/120] seconds. On a Vorpal weapon hit, have a chance to restore 1 Charge. (1AP/Rank)

Oooh a Battle Trance based on a physical stat (DEX) rather than a mental one? Nice! Cue the STR toons complaining about how they're being left out while the dwarves are neglected yet again.

• Two Places At Once: When you use Manyshot or Scattershot, you gain Displacement for 12 seconds. (2AP)

Is there a separate cooldown for this effect or is it simply presumed that Manyshot/Scattershot usage will be the only limiting factor necessary?

• Scattershot: Ranged Bow Attack: Expend one charge to randomly select up to three different enemies at close range and shoot one arro at each of them. Each of these shots can Doubleshot. 2 second cooldown. This feat gives 3 charges, you regain 1 charge every 12 seconds you don't use Scattershot or Manyshot. (Requires a Longbow or Shortbow to use). Shares Charges and a Cooldown with Manyshot.(2AP)

So if we compare that to Manyshot:

Expend one charge to fire three arrows in quick succession. You have +1 Critical Threat Range and Critical Multiplier with these shots. Each of these shots can Doubleshot. 2 second cooldown.

Fire 3 shots at one enemy or one shot at 3 enemies. Interesting, although in practice I dunno how useful it will be, particularly if Scattershot doesn't get the crit bonuses which Manyshot does. Then again, Scattershot will stack with Improved Precise Shot, so in theory you could hit 3 separate columns of enemies if the stars aligned.

Tier 5

• Walker's Guidance: You and targeted ally gain Evasion and +5 to Saving Throws vs. Traps for 12 seconds. 60 second cooldown. (1AP)
• Banish the Quarry: If Corner the Quarry is used against a Marked Target, they take an additional 1d6 Force Damage per Character Level. This damage scales with Ranged Power. If the creature is Extraplanar, it must make a Will Save (d20+your Listen skill) or be Banished. (Bosses cannot be banished). (1AP)
• Feywild Attunement: +1 Competence Bonus to Threat Range and Multiplier with Longbows and Shortbows. (1AP)
• Misty Step: As Abundant Step, but you disappear. (Shares a cooldown with other abundant steps). (1AP)
• Improved Archer's Focus (as in Deepwood): Your Archer's Focus stance can now stack up to 25 times instead of 15. Passive: +10% Doubleshot. (2AP)

If we compare to tier-5 Deepwood Stalker:

• Extra Favored Enemy
• Heavy Draw: Toggle: While Heavy Draw is active, you deal +5 damage with archery and thrown attacks. Effects that modify the attack penalty and bonus of the Power Attack feat also modify this ability (but other effects related to Power Attack do not). You also gain +1 Competence Bonus to Critical Multiplier with Longbows and Shortbows.
• Strikes Like Lightning: You gain +10% Doublestrike and +20% Doubleshot
• Head Shot: Ranged Attack. +5[W] attack that is automatically considered a critical threat. On hit, blinds the opponent for 6 seconds. (Fortitude save negates, 14 + Ranger level + Dexterity Mod + Tactical Feat DCs) Cooldown: 12 seconds.
• Improved Archer's Focus

I'm not sure how to weigh Banish the Quarry vs Head Shot, but the big outlier is the +20% Doubleshot from Strikes Like Lightning. That alone would seem to give DWS the edge, while Horizon Walker provides more utility (Walker's Guidance, Misty Step).

Granted, I wasn't necessarily expecting Horizon Walker to be more powerful than DWS, but right now it feels like Horizon Walker will be a complement to existing ranger / DWS builds, just as Vistani Knife Fighter was mostly a tree for buffing Assassins, at least until dagger thrower builds became viable.

I like it when the universal trees open up new class / build synergies and don't just buff existing archetypes. E.g., why not add something similar to Inquisitive's Inquisition Style?

Horizon Walker: Archery Style

• Eldritch Archery: While wielding a short- or longbow, you gain +10 Universal Spellpower and Soul Magic: Every time you strike an enemy with your bow, you have a 15% chance to gain 10 temporary spell points that last for one minute. Anti-requisite: Arcane Archer's Soul Magic Enhancement.
• Dashing Archery: You can Swashbuckle while wielding a shortbow.
• Divine Archery: You count short- and longbows as Favored weapons, regardless of your Deity.
• Martial Archery: +5% Doubleshot with short- and longbows.

[Enderoc]

A cool feat or enhancement would allow you to move silently while running ...still visible unless you use misty step or invis....or like absorbent step to be unnoticed by tremor sense

[Son_of_the_South]

Perfect, I thought I was reading a little too much into how it was worded, but 5 should be enough..

I don't believe 5 will be anywhere near enough (unless you're only playing on Casual, Normal or Hard).

The whole tree is underwhelming given recent degeneration of ranged as a play style. Was really hoping this tree would make ranged bow-users more viable but everything up to T5 is naff and I can't see myself using a lot of it in-game. I would not buy this tree.

EDIT: Also, wouldn't Spot be a better skill to base DCs on than Listen?? Seems thematically more appropriate unless I am missing something...

[droid327]

Like most of it, but: Harper Int trance is at T2, Falconry Wis trance at T4. Now Dex-trance is at T3. I've never really understood the logic behind these. As it stands, Dex characters effectively have to pay a higher AP tax than Wiz EKs for their trance. Maybe this makes sense from some balancing perspective, but it's quite boring to have to pay a 13 AP tax just to not lose out on what will become an essential and passive tactics/damage bonus.

If 13 AP in a bow tree actually allowed dex melee to occasionally use bows, it might actually be fun, but it won't. You need MP->RP as in Vistani, as well as put the obligatory crit mult lower in the tree (maybe C12 as suggested). This would actually allow for some versatility and be fun. To be great you would still need N bow feats and then somehow solve the entire gear tetris, but it wouldn't hurt to let melee do some occasional ranged damage. I actually think Vistani set a great precedence in this regard.

The difference between INT/WIS and DEX is that its far, far easier to get DEX to hit/dmg for DEX builds. Bows get it free natively, Tempests and Monks get it in their melee tree cores (Swash does, though its up their tree). So ALL you're getting out of the tree is the Trance. EK still needs to get INT to dmg from Harper, and only FVS can get WIS to hit/dmg outside Falcon (and have their own Trance anyway). CHA only spends 7 in FI for hit/dmg, but then you need to pick up a CHA trance in your class trees, which is another 4 AP minimum. So it always adds up to about 12 AP for the full alt-stat suite.

Rangers get the autogrant feats to make ranged work. I'm guessing /6 Rgr is going to be pro forma for a lot of HW builds. And remember the ED upgrade is going to give 10 MP and 8 RP for all cores, plus what you get from Epic levels themselves, so the ranged/melee gap isnt going to be that wide even for melee builds. If you're a DEX Tempest, and you're splashing HW for the trance now, you might pick up some Bow enhancements too for a ranged backup.

[Kelledren]

I like the Banishment effect, very thematic for the tree. Using the listen skill is fine, as long as it will be able to actually banish beings at end game given all the changes.

I think in addition to this, T5 should have a similar favored enemy attack/instakill (arrow of slaying ish?) with a cool down or just an increased to hit/damage for all favored enemies.

Finally please remove the weathered gear. It’s like, I ran out of ideas, so this. It’s just a space filler. Three action points! I would buy one of those anvil effreet things every day for 3 action points. It might as well be: 3 action points for a picture of Sev. You can carry this picture around and look at it in the dungeon at any time.

Please put something in that is synergistic with warpriest/warsoul trees to make them at least a little tempting with this tree/bow pass.

Thanks

[Son_of_the_South]

I like it when the universal trees open up new class / build synergies and don't just buff existing archetypes. E.g., why not add something similar to Inquisitive's Inquisition Style?

Horizon Walker: Archery Style

• Eldritch Archery: While wielding a short- or longbow, you gain +10 Universal Spellpower and Soul Magic: Every time you strike an enemy with your bow, you have a 15% chance to gain 10 temporary spell points that last for one minute. Anti-requisite: Arcane Archer's Soul Magic Enhancement.
• Dashing Archery: You can Swashbuckle while wielding a shortbow.
• Divine Archery: You count short- and longbows as Favored weapons, regardless of your Deity.
• Martial Archery: +5% Doubleshot with short- and longbows.

Brilliant idea re Archery Style, this would make me want to play the tree. It's guys like Unbongwah that Dev's should listen to, not the "player council" (how do I, or any of us, know they represent my/our opinion/aspirations for the game??)

Ultimately, and long-playing friends of mine and I were discussing this recently, I would suggest that SSG need to start telegraphing future, major (not all of course) changes and inviting player thoughts/input well in advance. SSG get pages and pages of feedback to go through, post mortem, now so surely seeking advanced feedback would save them time and help inform (better, more efficient) decision making? I understand the possible pitfalls with this but wouldn't it be a better system than planning and implementing changes and then having to back-peddle (costing time and money) when the community vehemently oppose them?

[droid327]

Looking at everyone missing the first blood like 15d10 force damage capped at lvl 30 that scales with ranged power and doubles on marked targets added into all the other damage bonuses you can aquire as a tier 2 enhancement....
That's pretty heavy...

It...really isnt, and that deserves to be discussed more since its such an integral part of the tree's design

15d10 Force damage, doubled to 30d10, scaling 100% with Ranged Power, but you only get it once per mob. Say you're at 200 RP, that's 30*5.5*3= 495 damage. At L30, that's an autoattack. And it doesnt crit or anything either.

Lets compare that to some other ranged weapon imbues...Capstone EK gives you 7d12 elemental damage, scaling 100% with spellpower. Say you're at 800 spellpower at L30 (which is conservative), that's 7*6.5*9 = 409 damage...so a little less but comparable, but that's on every single hit. Now granted its not Force, so it gets reduced more, but still does way more damage overall.

Similarly, Law on your Side does 10d8 law scaling with 150% Ranged Power. With the same 200 RP, That's 10*4.5*4=180. So in about 3 hits, LoyS does more than the single Force burst. And that Alignment damage, which like Force is pretty universally useful.

Even AA Force Arrows is better: 7d6 Force damage, scaling 100% Spell Power. Force Spellpower is a little tougher to get, so lets just assume 600 SP at L30....that's 7*3.5*7=171.5, so like LoyS you're looking at about 3 hits before the every-hit imbue is worth more than the first-hit imbue.

Also consider how annoying it'll be trying to use Mark and Opening in a group. If someone even does 1 HP worth of damage to your target first, you lose your extra damage.

[Arkantios]

Not overly impressed. UT's are replacing what should be done in respective class trees.

My proposal for bow users is far superior in playability than HW for sure. Too bad SSG can't get past their own desk to see where a player has better ideas than your "team".

This is a joke right? This is ridiculously powerful. Like, absurdly.

[Targal]

Dimensional Door
if it is already available once per rest, do you need to put 10m CD on it? I think It's unneccesary.

[TempestAlphaOmega]

Disclaimer

Everything seen on the preview server, Lamannia, is not final and is subject to change or removal before live release.

Here's your first look at Horizon Walker, a Universal enhancement tree currently slated for Update 50. Horizon Walker has popped up in a couple of editions of D&D at this point, as a variant option in 3.5e and a Ranger path in 5e. In this adaptation, the Horizon Walker is a hunter that traverses planes, hunting extraplanar enemies with a Bow. They are rugged adventurers, prepared for any kind of danger on any number of planes, and are attuned enough to Planes that they can occasionally manipulate planar alignments to avoid danger.

Focuses of this tree include:

• Single-Target Bow Damage
• Dexterity
• Avoidance defenses (dodge, incorp, etc)

I don't mean that it is all bad, there are certainly some good things in here but that said I don't see enough that I would spend AP here over somewhere else based on the return I believe I would get for those AP. I certainly don't see a value to this tree (as it stands) that would make me want to spend RL money to acquire it. Perhaps my expectations were somewhat raised based on the Bow Combat Pass and in looking at other trees that feed into ranged combat. I certainly didn't want a copy and paste of Inquisitor but for bows instead of crossbows but this doesn't seem to be in the same ballpark.

How I would build a melee in here:
- Core 1 (Marking works for anyone, not just archers)
- Eye for Accuracy x3 (Attack works for any weapon-user)
- Weathered Gear x1 (item defense works for anybody)
- Skilled Navigator x3 (saves vs. traps good for anybody)
- Core 2 (upgrades the Mark)
- Fav Enemy: Evil Outsider (works for any weapon-user), or alternately the other two ranks of Item Defense.

That should give you enough to reach the Trance, and no skills that don't do anything on your melee.

While technically true that these are usable as you state, they are a poor choice for what that amount of AP can get you elsewhere and eventually would just be a sub-optimal use of AP to force a DEX build using the DEX Trance.

Isn't the idea to give players something they really want to use, that provides viable choices that are balanced against the other choices they could make?

Inquisitor is a tree that you can build around in many ways (from many other class trees) which INQ being where you spend more points than any other tree. This tree just feels like it has to many fillers in-between the good parts.

[LittleLexi]

-"Weathered Gear" should be changed to an Action Boost bonus to movement speed.

-Rename "Horizon" in core 6 to "Across the Horizon"

-Swap "Skills"(Change its name to "Perspicuity" or something cooler at least) from tier 1, with "Nowhere to Hide" in tier 3. And give "Skills" True Seeing at 3 AP.

-Would like "Corner the Quarry" and "Misty Step" to be swapped. Would also like if re-emerging after "Misty Step" makes all subsequent arrows within the next 10 seconds inflict vulnerability against marked targets or Outsiders.

-Would like cores 1-5 to grant +2 ranged power and +1 saves vs Outsiders, in addition to what they already do.

-Would like a multiselector called "Expand One's Horizons"(See what I did there?) that gives something like: +ki on ranged attacks, +sneak attack dice, or +point blank shot range. Each one also gives another 1d6 force damage(scaling with RP) regardless.

-Would like more overall debuffs or persistent attacks vs marked targets to have more of a purpose or oomph.

-Would like to echo that tumbling should be improved to flow from movement better, and allow for rebinding it to something that doesn't necessitate the use of the block button. In addition— "Dodge and Strike" can perform an automatic "Scattershot" after a tumble(if you take its enhancement), while retaining its current benefits.

[droid327]

OK, first impressions after some playtesting....

15 Rgr Scourge, DEX based, full Sharn gear, playing Grimm and Barrett Elite...so at-level, and entirely Extraplanar enemies. Should be optimal testing conditions for a HW. T5 HW, rest in AA to get Paralyzing Arrows - seeing if you can finally get enough DPS to make Paralyzing workable for solo.

The biggest deal-breaker is damage. You still just do not do enough. You're entirely dependent on stacking Ranged Power from Archer's Focus and Manyshot burst damage to do anything. If you drop into IPS for any kind of tactical multihit, then your damage craters. The force damage procs I didnt even notice at all, they're negligible. Bow combat is still painfully slow, and the whole Mark, Nuke, Repeat gameplay overall loop did not feel rewarding. Marking targets needs to be a free action (ie no animation), because if its even costing you one attack cycle, its a DPS loss.

Even against the Orthon boss, ie single-target damage where its supposed to shine, it was glacial. Mark+Corner I expected to be a huge F-you damage attack as a T5 combo shot; it was not. Manyshot and Doubleshot crits were the only thing that seemed to move the needle on his HP. Paralyzing Arrow worked great, but then you just plunk plunk plunk.

The only redeeming mechanic in the tree was Scattershot. But, again, you're effectively locked out of IPS so its just three autoattacks, and 3x junk is still junk. And, like Cleaves, it really requires you to have some mobility to keep mobs bunched up in front of you (since you have to have 3 in range for it to make any sense), but that prevents you from building AF stacks. And its something you really want to be spamming in combat, not just every 12 seconds.

The defense in the tree was nice. Passive Displacement on Many/Scatter is noticeable. Misty was nice for moving around town, though that's probably more because no one has their Horses on Lama

Suggestions:

- Why is Corner a different attack than Opening? They share a CD, so why not just roll it all into one attack and save a button? Its probably just because its new and there's no icons, but I was a little confused about what I was supposed to be using and when, since the whole tree is about using conditional attacks with the right conditions.

- Move Scattershot down and make it more of a focus. It shouldn't be charge-based, it should just be a 6s CD so it can be a foundational rotation attack for trash mobs. It deserves further enhancement up the tree too; maybe a Force explosion when you hit a Marked target with Scattershot, a la EK's cleave. That'd let you keep the "focus on one target" mentality while still giving you some splash-around damage. Another boost/rider in T5 wouldn't hurt the tree either.

- Bow combat still needs some mechanical help, apparently. The tree itself is not able to overcome the fact that standard bow autoattacks are pointless. Maybe the Force damage proc on Opening needs to become like a 12s Force imbue (1d6 per 2 char lvls), scaling 150% with RP, to more closely mimic Inqui with Law on your Side? The tree needs to do SOMETHING for all the attacks you're not actively pushing a button.

[Xgya]

I like the tree so far.

I complained a lot about Universal trees being too good in the past, but this seems like a fairly decent thematic option that doesn't directly outshine others.

The fact it meets this standard is already promising.

[amessi1]

my main is a deep woods sniper wood elf, this will be so much fun (No Step Missed!! & +2 Maximum Manyshot charges)...thx you!